Thai Wife - Is Your Girlfriend The One?

[Maizefarmer]

HappyThai Life

Your comments boarder on, and could quite easily be construed as stereotyping - the type the majority of Thai's would find deeply offensive in the extreme, though, granted, I do not belive for one moment this was your intention.

Lets try move your observations or rather, this discussion, forward constructively. Let me ask you this.

If you have to adopt anywhere near a similar attitude towards a prospective partner back in your homeland, any young lady with a smittance of self diginity would be deeply offended and probably dismiss you in a flash. In fact, I would go so far as to say that if this topic was about European/American girls (Westernised girls - girls in your own home country), I do not believe you would be expressing this attitude.

So - the question is this: why do you feel that Thai girls are to be treated differently?

Thai girls are human ... and old TV hands will have heard me say this before: not withstanding culturale differences, their concepts of loyalty/dis-loyalty, good/bad, right-versus-wrong and honesty-versus-dishonesty, are no different to our understanding and appreciation of these concepts in the West, in Africa, in the Mid East ... Scandnavia .... and elswhere in the world. These are universal concepts that transcend culturale and ethnic boundaries.

With that in mind - back to your comments: my feeling is that say alot about your pre-conceptions about, and towards Thai girls.

They are the sort of comments we find so often associated with a very small section of Thai female/male society overall - a defensiveness against behaviour traits most (rightly or wrongly) would associate with that group of potential partners who work in the "bright lights" industry.

Let me share something with you about overwhelming majority of girls who work in the "bright lights" industry:

Unlike many of the girls, and the negative ideas and preconceptions that have grown up around "working girls" in the West, there is one major and very significant difference between them - as a generaalisation of 2 distinct groups: in the West many girls choose to be working girls by CHOICE. In Thailand (and elswhere in South East Asia) the motivation, by contrast, is CIRCUMSTANCE - the circumstance that arise from lack of oppurtunity & grinding poverty - which is characteristic of large parts of the North East of Thailand.

The point I am making is this: my feeling is that you are taking negative associations that stem (quite rightly perhaps) from the unacceptable behaviour of a small group of Thai girls - a group I think can rightly be associated with the "bright lights" industry - which quite possibly represents to sum extent your experience (or part of it) with Thai girls - taking those preconceptions/attitudes, and then painting all Thai females with them as a group.

While, yes - I can see situations in a limited number of relationships, where circumstances could lead one to adopting good old fashioned gum-shoe (private detetctive) work to solve an issue (i.e. "Testing" - to use your words), and which could serve as jolly good due-dilligence, I don't believe that as a generalisation your observations carry credit - and as said at the start, most Thai females would find it deeply offence & stereo-typical in type to be in a relationship that measured universally concepts like trust/distrust, loyalty/disloyalty, good/bad, right/wrong, honesty/dishonesty ..... against a background of "tests".

Ing (my wife) just shook her head ... arrogant, was one of the words that came to mind.

Okay - that all said, I am not wanting to bash you - I am "bashing" your idea - your approach, to building the relationship. I think it reflects your experience, pre-concpetions about Thai's that in a way have a racist undertone to them in that I don't belive it is an approach you'd take with a potential partner of your own ethnic/social background someone in your home country.

Thai girls are human - and the best way to develope and establish a relationship with a Thai girl you are interested in is to forget she is Thai - put it out of your head - grant her the courtesies & decensies, and treat her as you would treat a potential partner of your own background, social standing and similar culturale upbringing in your own home country. You may not realise it, but most Thai girls are very conscious (oh boy - they can keep a straight face) and aware when they are been treated as "Thai" versus been treated as a "person" - they pick up the the cues that ex-pats sub-conscoiusely "act out" in communication & inter-acting with them.

I'd be pleased if you would share with me a response to the comments I have made.

NB - I have used the "bright lights industry" analogy only because it's that group most ex-pats can identify the argument with, not that it's the only "group" that it can be associated with.

Edited October 26, 2009 by Maizefarmer

[HappyThaiLife]

HappyThai Life

Your comments boarder on, and could quite easily be construed as stereotyping - the type the majority of Thai's would find deeply offensive in the extreme, though, granted, I do not belive for one moment this was your intention.

Lets try move your observations or rather, this discussion, forward constructively. Let me ask you this.

If you have to adopt anywhere near a similar attitude towards a prospective partner back in your homeland, any young lady with a smittance of self diginity would be deeply offended and probably dismiss you in a flash. In fact, I would go so far as to say that if this topic was about European/American girls (Westernised girls - girls in your own home country), I do not believe you would be expressing this attitude.

So - the question is this: why do you feel that Thai girls are to be treated differently?

Thai girls are human ... and old TV hands will have heard me say this before: not withstanding culturale differences, their concepts of loyalty/dis-loyalty, good/bad, right-versus-wrong and honesty-versus-dishonesty, are no different to our understanding and appreciation of these concepts in the West, in Africa, in the Mid East ... Scandnavia .... and elswhere in the world. These are universal concepts that transcend culturale and ethnic boundaries.

With that in mind - back to your comments: my feeling is that say alot about your pre-conceptions about, and towards Thai girls.

They are the sort of comments we find so often associated with a very small section of Thai female/male society overall - a defensiveness against behaviour traits most (rightly or wrongly) would associate with that group of potential partners who work in the "bright lights" industry.

Let me share something with you about overwhelming majority of girls who work in the "bright lights" industry:

Unlike many of the girls, and the negative ideas and preconceptions that have grown up around "working girls" in the West, there is one major and very significant difference between them - as a generaalisation of 2 distinct groups: in the West many girls choose to be working girls by CHOICE. In Thailand (and elswhere in South East Asia) the motivation, by contrast, is CIRCUMSTANCE - the circumstance that arise from lack of oppurtunity & grinding poverty - which is characteristic of large parts of the North East of Thailand.

The point I am making is this: my feeling is that you are taking negative associations that stem (quite rightly perhaps) from the unacceptable behaviour of a small group of Thai girls - a group I think can rightly be associated with the "bright lights" industry - which quite possibly represents to sum extent your experience (or part of it) with Thai girls - taking those preconceptions/attitudes, and then painting all Thai females with them as a group.

While, yes - I can see situations in a limited number of relationships, where circumstances could lead one to adopting good old fashioned gum-shoe (private detetctive) work to solve an issue (i.e. "Testing" - to use your words), and which could serve as jolly good due-dilligence, I don't believe that as a generalisation your observations carry credit - and as said at the start, most Thai females would find it deeply offence & stereo-typical in type to be in a relationship that measured universally concepts like trust/distrust, loyalty/disloyalty, good/bad, right/wrong, honesty/dishonesty ..... against a background of "tests".

Ing (my wife) just shook her head ... arrogant, was one of the words that came to mind.

Okay - that all said, I am not wanting to bash you - I am "bashing" your idea - your approach, to building the relationship. I think it reflects your experience, pre-concpetions about Thai's that in a way have a racist undertone to them in that I don't belive it is an approach you'd take with a potential partner of your own ethnic/social background someone in your home country.

Thai girls are human - and the best way to develope and establish a relationship with a Thai girl you are interested in is to forget she is Thai - put it out of your head - grant her the courtesies & decensies, and treat her as you would treat a potential partner of your own background, social standing and similar culturale upbringing in your own home country. You may not realise it, but most Thai girls are very conscious (oh boy - they can keep a straight face) and aware when they are been treated as "Thai" versus been treated as a "person" - they pick up the the cues that ex-pats sub-conscoiusely "act out" in communication & inter-acting with them.

I'd be pleased if you would share with me a response to the comments I have made.

NB - I have used the "bright lights industry" analogy only because it's that group most ex-pats can identify the argument with, not that it's the only "group" that it can be associated with.

Maize - Brilliant response! I applaud you. I was hoping someone would ask a question... You picked up on my "Describe an average falang?" question perhaps? (I thought that was a stereotypical comment therefore I posed that question in the hopes of making the discussion wander towards stereotyping.)

To answer your question, I do not believe thai women should be treated any differently; I think they should be treated like any woman in this world. Treated in a similar manner in which they treat me; in a better manner actually, the do unto others rule. I prefer to "treat" any woman (or person rather) with the utmost respect, dignity, caring and compassion. For our benefit, I want us to be happy, full stop. Isn't happiness really what we all want? To find that, I help her fulfill her goals and possibly some dreams; she the same with me. I don't look at thai women as if they are thai, I look at them as what they are...a women, the wondrous opposite gender.

I am glad you bashed my "idea" and do appreciate your honesty. Ing is correct, the post is very arrogant and that was my intention. I was hoping that someone would respond and get to the root cause and why. Think about that for a moment. Or is that a bit too "twisted" or "disturbed" for some here? You see, this is not my "idea"; this post is a compilation of what I have heard in past years in the LOS (and elsewhere); this is a summary of what some falang men do to find out what the real intentions of their new-found loves outside of their native lands. I added 3 of my experiences with a certain "falang hunter" (stealing from Richard's post) just to add the internet "tests". I used the word test here because one falang man I met crying in his beer in Krabi told me he was "tested" (and failed) plus I was intrigued when he mentioned to me that the furniture went "missing" due to a test; hilarious that was and he laughed about it with me. Another thing I added was the shopping test which was told to me in another country by a falang who partnered with a gal with a serious penchant for all things Gucci. The family bit was a twist of a story in another country where the in-laws liked to pop over uninvited and, with their best intentions in mind, thought they could get closer to the grandchildren if they could move from their council flat and purchase a council flat in the area; the "catch" was they needed some small financial help (he was really excited I must say...to get to the pub, very quickly, when that was dropped on him).

Your "bright lights industry" analogy made me smile. I have no pre-conceptions with ANY women from any country for that matter. Personally, I have no issue with the "bright lights industry" either, anywhere. It is just not a preference of mine therefore I'm the type of falang that doesn't add revenue to this industry. As for the industry itself? It serves a much needed purpose in many countries I believe and I truly understand that need...I've seen serious poverty and civil war first hand. At least in some countries the "bright lights industry" is legal and well regulated and I like this type of forward thinking.

So yes, I owe an explanation (and an apology to you) perhaps for this post. I was curious of what sort of response I would receive by posting this in a thailand falang forum. It did not receive a very good response in two other countries and I can only guess why. In any event, if someone was to try these "tests", how far do you think they would actually get? I honestly don't know the answer to that one...nor do I care. An online forum is an open forum, go forward with caution people.

It truly intrigues me that the root cause is identical for both parties...and most can't see it.

Some readers will find something in this post that will generate a reaction within them and possibly it may strike a chord; that in turn may make them think more of the subject line for this post. And with that, it may actually help them in some way.

[sokal]

How about staying close to the same age and looks bracket as your partner ? You would save yourself allot of problems.

[sokal]

Woot - there are many good thai women here; it is just that a lot of falang don't know ehere or how to find them.

Richard - you are correct. To treat a woman like this could be considered disrespectful and I wrote this thread for those that need some help... I've known too many who have been scammed and heard of many more. I'm 1 for 5 here and hopefully I've found her now. Don't mean to sound like a cynic, but you wouldn't believe what hard financial times will do to the average person...

How much older where you in your unsuccessful relationships ?

Did you weigh 4 times as much as your partner ?

[sokal]

The basics to understand:

If you`re an old git, a real gentleman and have a beautiful young girlfriend who appears to love you for what you are, she`s after your money.

If you`re a young naive guy, a real gentleman and have a beautiful girlfriend who appears to love you for what you are, she`s after your money.

If you`re a young 6ft plus guy built like a brick <deleted> house, who has a beautiful young girlfriend and you sometimes slap her around a bit, constantly tell her what would happen if she treats you like a mug and she still stays loyal, as most seem to respect real bastards, than it is really true love.

Amen

The same can be said for farang relationships too.

[sokal]

<Snip>

Who cares about her ex ? Foreigner or Thai whats the difference ?

<Snip>

IMO - If a Thai woman has had relationships with more than a couple of Western / Non-Thai men then there may be an underlying reason.

There are girls here (some with decent careers) who choose to date only Western guys only - 'The Occupational Farrang Hunters'. They hang out in places where Westerners / Non-Thai's like to hang out to increase their chances of 'catching one'.

If in my home country I had a history of only choosing to date women of a specific race and that race was generally known for having a higher wealth than the locally attainable average, then something is clearly not right. I do have my socioeconomic standards but race does not fit into that. Some girls clearly equate dating a westerner in Thailand to increasing their financial status. This is why I would tend to steer clear of Thai women who have a line of Western or Non-Thai ex's.

Of course this is not always the case - But as generalisations go I think this one is not too far off the mark.

Did it ever occur to you that it is very hard to keep long distance relationships together and that is why some girls would have multiple x farang boyfriends ?

[sanook2me]

Flip me that HappyThaiLife has got a lot to say about nothing....

Join a sports club outside of farang central station and I guarantee you will find decent, respectful, educated, financially independent ladies and lots of them.

If someone is looking for a quality wife this is the best bit of advice i can give.....

But what do i know i met my wife in a bar! a german beer bar too! The one at Future park !

[Livinginexile]

One thing I read that I quite agreed with was the point that touched upon knowing how many western ex’s the GF has. Of the successful relationships I know of over here the answer is generally zero.

I am sure you are right saying generally zero.

However, my wife had a farang husband before me and I had a Thai wife before her. Her ex was an abusive alcoholic and my ex was an Issan gold digger. We both got seriously hurt in our last relationships and that has made ours stronger. We know what behaviour is acceptable in each others culture and do not want to go through the same problems as before. I don't know whether it makes us try harder to keep each other happy, but as long as we are happy it all that matters.

Well done Nidge!

I love a happy ending

Good luck to you both in the future.

[geriatrickid]

There is an easier test. What does the dog say.

Seriously now, how many of you guys ever met a "bad" lady that the dog liked? If the dame doesn't meet with Sparky's approval, she's not staying over, and if she stays over and objects to the cat chaperoning the sleeping arrangements, again she's history. Much more cost effective and efficient.

[bifftastic]

There is an easier test. What does the dog say.

Seriously now, how many of you guys ever met a "bad" lady that the dog liked? If the dame doesn't meet with Sparky's approval, she's not staying over, and if she stays over and objects to the cat chaperoning the sleeping arrangements, again she's history. Much more cost effective and efficient.

Hahaha! now all i need is a dog i can trust. If I get one will Sparky run 'tests' on my dog?

[sgunn65]

An interesting post. I have just finished a 2 year marriage to a middle class Thai woman. I was her first farang bf and she had never been anywhere near the bright lights. Throughout our 3 year relationship she was true, devoted and never asked for money. In all you could not ask for much more in a woman. My workaholic attitude was the main reason our relationship foundered and I take full blame for the demise of it.

On the OP's post she would probably not be considered a good bet due to having a previous farang relationship. What a mistake as she will make someone (unfortunately not me) a wonderful partner.

A womans past is immaterial to her present and possible future. Whether she was a BG or office worker shouldn't be relevant. How many of us are virgins with a clean past?

Whilst I agree there are gold diggers out there it is harsh to judge a nation by a few. My experience has been that the bad one's show their true colours very quickly without too much in the way of testing. A lie here and there is usually the thing. And a lie is like a cockroach. If you see one there are usually several more hovering just out of sight. I learnt this in the UK.

That said I might end up a victim of a bad one yet and be eating humble pie on this site in the future.

[bifftastic]

You may not realise it, but most Thai girls are very conscious (oh boy - they can keep a straight face) and aware when they are been treated as "Thai" versus been treated as a "person" - they pick up the the cues that ex-pats sub-conscoiusely "act out" in communication & inter-acting with them.

This definitely struck a chord with me. My g/f quietly and very cleverly spent about 3 or 4 days finding out if i was attracted to her/liked her because she was Thai and found that somehow 'exotic', she gently probed me about my past, my views on relationships and equality and we had discussions about how foreign men perceive Thai women without me realising what she was doing.

She did all of this without the benefit of much formal education, the vocabulary that we share is reasonably limited (not fluent English for her and hardly any Thai for me) but showed herself to be a thoughtful, cautious and genuine person. It would be easy for both of us to slip into the 'accepted roles' of farang b/f Thai g/f but we are both individuals, both had hard times in our lives, both insist on being treated as a person rather than a product of our environment.

If you met me for the first time you would jump to all sorts of conclusions about what type of person i am, then you would find out you were wrong.

This is one of the reasons I like her so much, she's a lot more than she appears to be, and so am I.

Some readers will find something in this post that will generate a reaction within them and possibly it may strike a chord; that in turn may make them think more of the subject line for this post. And with that, it may actually help them in some way.

it did make me think about the subject line, it did strike a chord (especially about the shopping!) but no, it did not make me think 'ok let me find out if her parents will nick my furniture'

nor will i be so calculated as to have some kind of 'checklist' with boxes 'ticked' (or not) in order to assess my relationships, although i do know people who do seem to do that (one girl i was seeing for a while very happily informed me that i had successfully passed all her 'checks and balances' i think she called them!) my ex g/f who i was with for 7 years regularly bitches and moans about her new b/f as he seems to 'run through a list' and then pull her up when she doesn't match up.

So yes, thank you OP for your 'test list' and the responses from some, which have been interesting.

But no, I won't be making it into a chart with little boxes.

[Heng]

Who cares about her ex ? Foreigner or Thai whats the difference ?

More social separation. Apparently many guys are concerned that they might walk into some PTA meeting, restaurant, airport lounge, etc. in the future and 3-4 guys like himself greet her in unison like Norm walking into Cheers. 'Noi!'

[villagefarang]

Just as you can't legislate against stupidity, no amount of warning, signage or lists will prevent people from testing the limits of their own stupidity. Just let them get on with it. Everyone finds their own level at some point.

Maybe we should start a thread from the female perspective. "Yo, did you just checkout my ass? You're out a here, like now. Nobody treats me like a sexual object." "You ask me out and expect me to pay for it and sleep with you? You are a cheap-ass farang. You're out a here, like now." ...

"You don't like me, trust me or want to take care of me. Plus you hate my country and my family. But you still think I should respect you and sleep with you. No thank you."...

Edited October 27, 2009 by villagefarang

[EnhancePlus]

lay off the yabaa and get on with it. Live and learn. I'm sure everyone's been burned in a relationship one time or another - with all races. This original post sounds like what rambles through a crackheads brain - just replace money to crack. How could anyone EVER have a relationship with such a never ending list of paranoia checklists.

[473geo]

How about staying close to the same age and looks bracket as your partner ? You would save yourself allot of problems.

Well I guess Mr average, safe as houses Norm could go for that route.........as he slows into middle age at 30 years old.. .

What about Mr charismatic, Mr vibrant, Mr living on the edge,Mr take life as it comes and enjoy every minute.......Mr entertainment......

have you never met these people then....high risk and beautiful women is a fun combination....

You gotta have somebody who can keep up.....

[mrtoad]

To be fair, it's pretty difficult to really put any person in a particular box. This is largely the problem with a lot of the views that are expressed here on Thai Visa when it comes to Thai women and relationships.

I certainly have to admit to having made some mistakes over the years in terms of relationships. My first marriage was to a western women who had a decent education and a good profession. It was one of those whirlwind romances, and we ended up getting married after only 6 months , probably not the most thoughtful things to do, and sadly the relationship did indeed end after 5 years. To be fair, on reflection whilst the break up was not particularly pleasant, I'd probably say that my work hours were a contributing factor, along with a relocation which really did not go well for my then wife. Painful and costly break up, but I was able to get back onto my feet, and subsequently we maintained good ties.

I subsequently met a Thai women through some friends, I'd say a pretty average country girl, limited education, couple of years younger than me. Well, we hit it off - and she spent sometime in the UK with me. I was far to raw to even consider marriage after the first experience, but I made a compromise to move to Thailand and try and make a go of things. To be fair, the decision to move here was really my choice, as I felt that I needed a change and a break from the rat race. Anyway, as time went on - and I spent a little more time working the resentment started to grow, we had a small child, and even though our daughter was in Kindergarten she has basically refused to do anything other than the bare minimum, in the house and has generally wanted to stay at home watch TV and pick the daughter up from Kindergarten period. She has several friends who basically encourage her to not to anything other than what she is doing, as they believe quite wrongly that Farang = rich.They do like to sit around and gossip though for hours on end. Anyway, sadly this relationship is now at an end - but the interesting thing is that the relationship that I have with my previous wife is still much more pleasant than what I have with my now ex-girlfriend. Rather than go on about it, I think relationships need to built on foundations which need to include some similarities -education, social interests, shared sense of humour and ambitions. That is probably why at least with my ex-wife we still get on, whereas my ex-girlfriend believes that I am a bad man.

I know this sounds pretty simplistic, which is the intention, but rarely do relationships that do not have these ingredients last long. I've learnt another lesson, and hopefully when I embark on my next relationship, this time it will last longer, because I am going to make sure from the outset that there are some real long term similarities and my thought is going to be done more with the head than the heart. Some might say third time lucky! Who knows?

[a2396]

Looking for a happy life in the LOS? With a nice girlfriend that you may want to marry in future?

Here are a few things I would like to suggest to any foreign men that may be following this thread, especially new comers to the LOS. I just thought I'd toss this out as it seems that us falang men here in the LOS should unite and, for want of a better word, fight back on the many thai wife scams. Here you are, a few things to think about when starting a union with your new-found dream girl in the LOS::

1) Pick of the litter. Find an educated gal that works in an office preferably raised by mother/father, small'ish extended family, from the country areas, and educated on her own merits. Find out quickly how many foreign men she has had relationships with; ask all the Ws (Who, what, where, why, etc); look for anything that sounds strange in her answers and question her about it. Always tell your other head: "You can take the BG out of the bar but not the bar out of the BG". I recommend re-affirming this daily. Ask yourself: Is your new found girl actually a BG, a part-time freelancer, a freelancer, a part-time escort, a pro escort, a new scammer or a veteran scammer? Has she done any of these types of work in past to generate revenue? Does she have a thai boyfriend, a scam support group, or a scheming family behind her? Fellas, ask yourself these questions and question her; find the closest thing to the truth that you can.

2) Your abode, not hers! Find your own place, in your name. If you are new here, rent a nice apartment on a month to month or 3 month basis in an area you may like (lots to be had these days at fantastically low prices; shop around, ask respectable thais and other foreigners). If you are thinking of buying something, go for a "strata" title deal condo in your name. If you want land/house/property, there are many lawyer/finance businesses (accredited abroad) that can help you with company set up and can handle mutliple thai shareholders "in-house"; this is the safest way, albeit not in anyway completely free of risk. Be aware that there can be many issues and changing "local rules" with land ownership! PM me if you want a couple of examples for lawyer/finance companies - or just search on the web and confirm these with your embassy / expat club / business club. Once you have the girl and the love nest...

3) Test the girlfriend - apartment. Let her stay over at times but don't let her move in right away! If she tries to shack up immediately, tell her no, go slow babe. If she objects, dump her on the spot, tell her to get out. Once she knows the rules, then let her have a bit of the run of the place, slowly. If she tries to change the maid, tell her no, the maid that came with the place is just fine thank you. If she asks about household goods for extended family, dump her asap. Oh, have I forgotten to mention...don't give her a key, nor any access to the place; if she befriends the apartment staff, the owner or manager, tell her that this is your place and you are a private fella that keeps his business to himself...no personal relationships with the apartment personnel please; if she objects, dump her. If a friend or family member is going to come and stay, tell her that you don't mind her staying at the flat while her friends/family stay at her place. Don't waver on this...once a friend or family member is in your flat, they may be difficult to remove. Don't let her move in at all costs...not until step 9 below and even then be aware that it is not the norm for thais to co-habitate like people do in other countries and the family may be dead against it...so do yourself a favour and wait. Having her living apart from you is a much better deal anyway and will show her true intentions with you (or your wallet).

4) Test the girlfriend - internet. Try and find out about her from as many people as you can without her knowing. I've done some crazy things like using internet social networking sites...trying to get her to add me as a friend and answer my fake messages sent to her facebook, twitter, etc. I've used fake profiles with a subtle focus on apartments/money in my ad and then send a message to her profile (if you think this is a bad thing, don't worry about it, some thai women will do this to you possibly with the help of her girlfriends. Try using emails from fake addresses; same same here fellas, her girlfriends may do this to you, be aware of this. (Been there, done that, bought more than the t-shirt fellas). I've not installed a key logger on my laptop (or hers) but have been thinking about it; this was done to me in past and I actually had a lot of fun with her about it - I eventually told her that the past week of my bizarre internet actions were not me, I lent my laptop out to my friend; a week later I told her that it was all a game that I played back on her; I dumped her a week later after some interesting conversations! She only wanted my wallet anyway and I knew it. Speaking of which...

5) Test the girlfriend - money. Remember, never give out money like an endless ATM. Don't pay for her rent. Don't constantly buy her things. Take her out yes, of course, and choose food or entertainment spots that range from "on the street" star to 5 star. Take note how she deals with the people, especially in the low end spots; in the 5 star spots, she should feel humble, impressed, happy; if she is not humble in the expensive joint then maybe she has had the 5 star high-life before you and is not going to tell you about her wondrous lavish past lifestyle with the previous falang kwai (you'll eventually find out if this is so). In the low end spots, generally speaking, she should feel very comfortable; more importantly she should treat all people with respect and some compassion...that is the true indicator I believe. Ask her for pick up something for dinner one night and bring it over; ask her where she bought it and what did it cost...and don't offer to pay for it...probably cost 200 Baht at most if it is thai food from a small local restaurant in bkk. If she puts her hand for you to pay for it, tell her no have cash right now, you need to go to the ATM so will pay her tomorrow...then don't pay her...if she asks again, tell her that she can pay for the odd thai take-away. If she objects, dump her.

6) Test the girlfriend - money. Once you are getting really comfortable with your new-found love, try a shopping test. First take her out and go shopping for about an hour with her; go to a mall and look around for a few hours but don't spend more than an hour actually shopping (most of us can't shop deal with long shopping sessions anyway so no point in torturing yourself mate). When you go into a shop, check her actions closely...is she shopping for you or for her? Just play it cool and let her make the decisions. If she automatically tries to buy a new phone, new clothes, new bag, or shoes for herself using your wallet, well, then, mate, wake up...you've got your answer. If she is trying to "fake it" and play the game by looking for clothes for you to make it seem that she is authentic, well, her true endeavours are much harder to ascertain. You may have to go back to step 5 above and re-visit this test another time; just let her "buy" one thing for you using your wallet then get out quickly. This may actually lead to her wanting to buy you something on her own accord and she may actually bring something for you in the very near future. If she does, she may be real and not just a wallet chaser, if not, back to step 5 mate.

7) Test the girlfriend - money. At some opportune point in time, preferably when you have something you must do alone, ask her if she wants to go shopping and offer to give her 5000 or 10000 Baht, and jokingly mention that she can bring back the change. If she refuses your money then you may have met a good one. If she takes the money, check her reaction closely, and mention that you would like her to pickup something for you, a phone top-up card or cigarettes or a bottle of wine. When you see her later, don't say a word about her shopping, let her show you what she bought and any money left over. If she bought the wine, ciggies or top-up card...well at least she remembered what you said and didn't go completely brain dead over the cash. If she spent all the cash, well she is probably a wallet chaser. If she just bought all clothes and stuff for herself, her friends and family, most probably a wallet chaser. If she bought some things for her and some extra things for you, maybe she is authentic or trying to look that way? If she bought nothing for herself and some extra things for you, well, possibly she is authentic or acting out her game. If she brought back no change or doesn't offer you the change or just put it on the table, go back to step 5; be wary of her if she spent the lot with nothing much to show for it or she didn't bring back anything for you. Women and shopping go hand in hand, they went to shopping school mate, so best to sort out what she is like with your cash right away. 5 or 10K Baht is a drop in the bucket at the beginning and money well spent to find out if she is just a serial wallet snatcher.

8) Test the family - advice/money. If you made it to here, pat yourself on the back mate, you are probably luckier than 90% of other falang. If you have met the family before step 7, well, all I can say is... pause, do nothing with the family, go back to step 3 mate. Does that sound bizarre? Well, do yourself a favour and slow down with the family. Have you given the family money or goods or presents yet? If so...pause, do nothing with the family, go back to step 3 mate. Keep your cool and just tell your girl that family is very important to you and you want to be sure about moving forward with your family as it is a big deal. Do yourself a favour mate and be patient...remember that you'll have plenty of time to dish out cash to the family in the future if she is the one for you. If she is not cool about this, warn her, tell her that her family is important and you want to do this the right way, your way, your comfortable way. Delay, delay, delay fellas. You must be very careful with her extended family, their contacts, connections, and abilitiies. Once you are "in", you only have two ways to go, all or nothing. So just make sure that your ALL is only the disposable money/income that you are willing to lose in thailand; always keep your own nest egg, preferably abroad.

9) Test the family - money. If you have made it this far, ASK her about her family, their history, their current lives, their financial shape, everything you can. Every family has an unique story to tell...there is always some story...and I don't mean this in any negative sense, just find out about them and be aware...put the pieces together the best you can. If you know anyone from their village/town/city, get them to check out her family without them knowing. I am doing this now...slowly, slowly. Then ASK her if her parents want to come and visit; you'll pay for their travel (a test). If they agree, be aware big time; if they offer to come on their own accord, perfect. THE FIRST TIME YOU MEET HER FAMILY, DON'T GO VISIT THEM in their house/village/town/city; JUST DON'T, REFUSE TO DO THIS, plead insanity if you have to, a heart problem, anything. Let HER FAMILY COME TO YOU for a visit. When they come, make sure you have an exit strategy that day; arrange something that "just came up" the evening before the family is to arrive and don't mention it until the day before when the family is travelling or on the day of the visit. Now...make sure you get the family to stay at her place; if this is not possible, offer to pay for a hotel for them; if they easily accept, be aware! If they won't accept a hotel paid for and can't afford one, then let them stay at your place with your girlfriend while you stay at a nearby hotel (clear out all valuables before hand, if they take the furniture well you are not a very bright lad for letting them in for that length of time without supervision, are you?). Make sure you let the apartment personnel know that the girlfriend's family is coming and make sure the girlfriend witnesses this. If it all works to plan up to this point, then ideally make sure that you have a thai/english speaking friend of yours that can pop in and visit with you and the family briefly. A friend that your girlfriend "sort of" knows but ideally a friend that you know well and one that speaks only in english and answers in thai only when required to the family. If you have to hire a "friend", do it. Check out the reaction of the family before, during and after this friend is introduced. Ask your friend about it afterwards; it may reveal some family purpose or schemes. If your first family visit involves talk of money or goods...take your exit card and go do that thing that "just came up" the night before. Speak with your girlfriend the next day and tell her that you are busy today so won't be able to visit with her family; tell her to have fun and be happy with her family...talk later babe. When the family departs, talk to her about the money talk that occurred when you met the family for the first time at your flat.

If your first visit with the family did not involve money, you may be onto a real thing.

If the first family visit worked out, have another one in about 3 - 6 months, get them to come again. If they truly cannot come to you, no worries, just send her alone. Wait for 3-6 months and try again; this time if they cannot come, go and see them. Have a mate stay at your place and lock up all your valuables when you are away at her family's abode.

10) MOST IMPORTANTLY... Make sure that you are more important to her alive - don't put all your eggs into her basket mate...because someone else may understand the scenario and give her the push to put you out of the picture permanently. This has occurred in Thailand on more than one occasion.

Having said all this above, I believe that the LOS is a fantastic spot in the world and plan to eventually retire here in 10-20 years; right now "I'll play my cards close to my chest" and see what transpires with my latest girlfriend. She is lovely and quite "westernised"; she finally asked me for money earlier this year and then paid it back to me promptly.

I may sound like a self-obsessed bastard but in honesty I treat her like a princess and our lives are, so far, quite full and we are very happy. Issues do occur but she does have the ability to reason with me rather than just put her back to the wall and go into ATM withdrawal mode. She knows, and her parents now know, that I am not their ATM; I told her quite bluntly (verbatim) that there are many falang kwai ATMs in the LOS so she can have her pick anytime and I can go back to how I lived in thailand 3 years ago...foot loose and fancy-free. She continually chooses to stay in my AMT-free zone, works a job now, and is looking for a bright future. Good girl. I've seen what has transpired with some of her single girlfriends; they are unhappy and can't find a man; they need training as well I reckon.

I've been in LOS for about 3 years and have gone through about 4 girlfriends. 2 lasted mere weeks, 1 lasted 2 months, 1 lasted 7 months. I read up on thailand prior to coming here and "played my cards very close to my chest". I am with a new gal now and have been with her for about a year... she pays for the basic living expenses, I pay for most (not all) dinners, drinks, entertainment and most trips within or out of thailand. She has a professional office job. I've basically tried to be as cautious as possible with women here and I've TALKED to her about the many scams that I have heard of in thailand, especially between thai wife / falang kwai. I have told her that I keep my money/nest egg abroad (which I do). And have, many times, kindly suggested in a round-about way that, at the first inkling that I feel our relationship is based on her sole want of my money, I am gone, poof!, instantly. The Lottery is over baby and you lost. The reality is that all women look for money intially, but there is a large difference between a serial wallet snatcher and a woman that is looking for a happy secure future. Fellas, do this first, tell her that wallet chasers are not allowed in your life, well before any living arrangement or, god forbid, money giving.

Fellas, we can teach some of these LOS gals to understand us and what a cross-culture relationship can truly be like plus show them that they do not need to be a serial wallet chasing ATM withdrawal demon to have a happy financial future. On second thought, possibly that is just naive...

well done posting a bunch of hooey!

at least i agree with the part that just most are naive! have no clue what marrying a thai involves..........espeially when one considers what kind of girls are genereally up for "marriage with a dubious farang". i doubt many farangs are hooking up with office girls who have decent jobs.

Office girls with decent jobs or Univ grads are generally not interested in a Farang.

[sokal]

How about staying close to the same age and looks bracket as your partner ? You would save yourself allot of problems.

Well I guess Mr average, safe as houses Norm could go for that route.........as he slows into middle age at 30 years old.. .

What about Mr charismatic, Mr vibrant, Mr living on the edge,Mr take life as it comes and enjoy every minute.......Mr entertainment......

have you never met these people then....high risk and beautiful women is a fun combination....

You gotta have somebody who can keep up.....

Yeah I hear about them jumping off of balconies on Pattayone news on a weekly basis.

[highchol]

.

Office girls with decent jobs or Univ grads are generally not interested in a Farang.

well some are thank goodness

[a2396]

An interesting post, however a bit unrealistic. I have been here 5 years and have gone through many more than 4 or 5 (ladies), which I would not go so far as to call girlfriends. In 5 years I have only met ONE (1), who did not expect, in fact demand money (to be paid or a regular or monthly basis). I have not and do not choose candidates from bars, restaurants, massage joints, etc. In the vast majority of cases, Farang/Thai matches here are generally based on money and that is the operative factor. Such is not surprising, when there are numerous foreigners offering one million bht + sin sod or giving them 30-50,000 bht monthly allowances, such as a recent poster on this website. Needless to say, I am still in contact with my one exception and likely will be a long term deal.

[mrtoad]

Office girls with decent jobs or Univ grads are generally not interested in a Farang.

Sweeping generalisation. Come on put a little more into a2396.

[Jezz]

If only I didn't need to work, eat, spend time with my loved one, feed my cats and everything else... maybe I would consider wasting my energy on some of these things...

But as for now I Don't have that time or patience, but thank you for your suggestions. I am much better doing things as they go and actually enjoy the time we spend together and try to build something stronger.

As your comments on family, past boyfriends and work you really are disturbed my friend...

Many girls working in Offices end up at nigh working in Pat Pong.

Who cares about her ex ? Foreigner or Thai whats the difference ? and why should she even give you all the details do you tell her how many girls you laid in your life ? Well I don't it's my Past and I respect her Past... If the family ask you for money after the first meeting I hope you run like you should in any country, nothing to do with Thais.

Hope you can find some enjoyable activities some times unless you enjoy doing these things of course

But please don't try to convince yourself that you are trying to help people. If someone follow what you say you'll only ruin their relations.

For yourself and your followers the best test to know if she is a good girl is how long she will take to leave you when you act like this. The sooner the better girl she probably is. If she stays she is probably too stupid or desperate!

Yer know? In my opinion if, you're looking for a long-term relationship in the popular tourist areas, find a lass fresh from Isaan, with a couple of kids back home and no money. She'll turn up at your bar one day - first time in that environment and unsure of what it's all about. She wont speak much English and will be wondering what she's supposed to do next. Talk to her, buy her a drink and let the proof unveil itself. Then get her out of the bar and date her a few times. Chances are, she's a good bet and not a huge gold-digger - more digging for a slice of a better future. Aren't we all?

[Gonsalviz]

Well, I didn't follow most of that. My wife keeps a large amount of cash in our account. The only thing she spends more money on than I would wish is the temple but I ain't gonna touch that.

Her family tells her to not spend so much of my money, even though it is something I wanted. (i.e. :a carport for our pickup). She has all but demanded that I allow her to work so she can help me save money for our house. (this is choice, given the amount of money she makes). I have finally relented and she will be going back to work at her 5 star resort job next month.

Who says romance is dead?

I'm a Leo man myself. With ice. It's the only water I get.

[pjclark1]

What a load of old rubbish.

1) find a girl you like and who likes you (bar, massage, university, it doesn't matter)

2) Don't buy anything big in Thailand, rent.

3) Don't give you Cc pin details to anyone else.

4) Don't allow yourself to be locked away with the gf or her family

Just use a bit of common sense.

This is good advice for any girl in any country of the world.

PS

I have been living with a girl of dubious background for the last 6 months. I live in the house SHE OWNs but pay the same mortgage as I would rent on an apartment. She now has a job as a hotel receptionist.

I wouldn't give her family any money, even if I had it, now would I build on her family land or move in with the inlaws (how often does anyone do that in the western world). When she says "this is not the Thai way" (as they all do at some point) the answer is often "I am not a Thai, if you want to do things the Thai way then you will need to find a Thai boyfriend/husband".

When the family brought up the subject of 'Sinsot' I replied, "she is getting on a bit old (over 30) and has two children, how much were you thinking of paying me." They all seemed to find this very funny (apart from the gf) and the subject has never come up again.

Edited October 27, 2009 by pjclark1

[Gonsalviz]

Office girls with decent jobs or Univ grads are generally not interested in a Farang.

Sweeping generalisation. Come on put a little more into a2396.

Definitley not true. My Thai niece (from a previous marriage) is a college graduate and married to a Farang. My wife is married to me (Farang) and she is a supervisor at a 5 star resort. Many of her friends and colleagues want her to find Farang boyfriends for them.

[a2396]

Office girls with decent jobs or Univ grads are generally not interested in a Farang.

Sweeping generalisation. Come on put a little more into a2396.

Definitley not true. My Thai niece (from a previous marriage) is a college graduate and married to a Farang. My wife is married to me (Farang) and she is a supervisor at a 5 star resort. Many of her friends and colleagues want her to find Farang boyfriends for them.

Maybe if you live in BKK or the tourist resorts a different story. Where I live in Issan, I will stand by my statement. For starters most women here, including univ grads, speak little or no English. If the are of marriageable age (under 30) they are not going to "ruin" their reputation by getting cozy with some Farang. Many will talk about wanting a Farang BF, but really do nothing to accomplish such. Such talk just sounds good in front of another Farang. The exceptions to this are those women who need money and in such cases they are not interested in being a GF, only interested in marriage (soon) with a hefty sin sod.

[TheGoodDoctor]

Who cares about her ex ? Foreigner or Thai whats the difference ?

More social separation. Apparently many guys are concerned that they might walk into some PTA meeting, restaurant, airport lounge, etc. in the future and 3-4 guys like himself greet her in unison like Norm walking into Cheers. 'Noi!'

That is why I tell all of my farang friends to get to the MBK gold shops before 11:00 AM to avoid this type of embarrassment.

[Heng]

Office girls with decent jobs or Univ grads are generally not interested in a Farang.

Sweeping generalisation. Come on put a little more into a2396.

Definitley not true. My Thai niece (from a previous marriage) is a college graduate and married to a Farang. My wife is married to me (Farang) and she is a supervisor at a 5 star resort. Many of her friends and colleagues want her to find Farang boyfriends for them.

Exactly! Say 'a heck of a lot' or 'a whole bunch but not every single last one' instead. He did say 'generally,' and the replies as usual are along the lines of, "no! I know a few who aren't like that."

That's what I tell folks who say that blacks have it difficult in America. Just focus on Oprah and Michael Jordan like figures, try NOT to focus on the million+ (out of just 30 or so million) African Americans in prison.

Edited October 27, 2009 by Heng

[Huey]

Bahh, all that rambling just to say " Don't marry a hooker from the bar, and take your time getting to know her & her folks before ya wife her."

Really,

Thats a bit much, and I love how people create alternate accounts when ever they want to say something as insipid as this.