Bangkok Bank

[jazzbo]

as I said non-sequitur ... Let load and stand back (Women's Minds):

http://blueballs2.ytmnd.com/

[jfchandler]

Jazzy, now you're being silly...

Young Thai GFs certainly don't plan ahead... But a smart farang who knows young Thai GFs don't plan ahead plans ahead for that predictable situation... Get it???

By now, surely, you gotta know those kinds of things are coming, and not be taken by surprise when they do.... Spend your dosh on the lady, not on the bank.

... and 'planning ahead' and young Thai girlfriends in the same sentence is non-sequitur

[jazzbo]

Silly? OK, maybe -- I do not care to go into my personal situation in much detail but I have paid hospital bills, funeral expenses, school tuition and books, etc. and they don't take my American Express card ... Plus I receive a monthly deposit so there is only so much 'planning ahead' and maintenance of reserves that can be done ...

There is a phrase "I'll sleep when I'm dead" and to some extent I will worry about transfer fees et al when even e-d supplements do no good ...

[jfchandler]

Jazzbo, you raised a good general point, about what to do when unexpected sudden cash needs arise... And my general answer was...keep a small reserve fund of cash at home to handle such situations, and still avoid the 150 baht ATM fee.. That should be do-able and work for MOST people...

You may have a different situation, no problem. But, you might find better success with a VISA/MC vs. an American Express card. And if you have enough funds to treat a sweet young thing who wants to give you her all, then you probably have enough to keep a small reserve fund at home...

[jazzbo]

Oh, come on ... I have multiple cards besides AmEx ... When I set-up a reserve it usually lasts about 2 days ...I used to go to AEON but they moved to an inconvenient location and I do NOT want to have their machine swallow my only ATM card for a USA bank ... All in all, I would say I do my best to avoid unnecessary fees but at a certain point (as I have said) the $6-8000 a year or so I save on health-insurance alone more than makes up for those inconvemiences ...

... don't you look a little silly walking around Bangkok wearing your visor?

[jfchandler]

Saving $6000-$8000 a year on health insurance, and can't manage to tuck a few baht away at home???

OK.. I surrender. You're right. You can't possible do anything better.

You can't possibly open a new/different bank account.

You complain about places that won't accept your Amex card, but then say you do have many others....but only one U.S. bank ATM?

Don't you look a little silly going thru life blindfolded???

Oh, come on ... I have multiple cards besides AmEx ... When I set-up a reserve it usually lasts about 2 days ...I used to go to AEON but they moved to an inconvenient location and I do NOT want to have their machine swallow my only ATM card for a USA bank ... All in all, I would say I do my best to avoid unnecessary fees but at a certain point (as I have said) the $6-8000 a year or so I save on health-insurance alone more than makes up for those inconvemiences ...

... don't you look a little silly walking around Bangkok wearing your visor?

[jazzbo]

You can't possible do anything better... No ... Just that up to a point I don't have control of accoounts and I don't care that I do any better give the effort involved... AmEx?: I was being facetious... relax.

BTW in the 1980s according to some oil&gas tax lawyers in Houston I was the first systems analyst to spot the qualified disburser 'float' in the Windfall Profits Tax which earned some oil companies millions of dollars...

[jfchandler]

Maybe you should ask your Mommy to increase your monthly allowance???

I was just being facetious... relax.

[jazzbo]

They are generally referred to as Trustees and Wealth Fund Managers .... Instead of finishing University I went to work ... and the company was sold 30+ years later...

[jazzbo]

You can't possible do anything better. Yes, I can ... As of FEB 2010 I am the Founder and sole employee of an IRS 501c3 Non-Profit / NGO ('Registered Charity' in UK and elsewhere) whereby I can accept US IRS tax-deductible donations and pay myself a salary ... Stay tuned.

[ianguygil]

Hi Ian - you know you are in a difficult position, the advice you give to me - UK based - is spot on - It obviously does not translate to the other countries BBL has a correspondent bank presence in, or indeed in other peoples circumstances – however you have always openly acknowledged this.

For me it has truly been a roller coaster of a ride with transfers to Thailand. We - UK - generally actually convert to THB at the UK end for the transaction.

I used worldfirst

Better rates than BBL but you paid the UK transfer and optionally the Thai fees - this was critical as at the time as I was purchasing a condominium (and you know what you also really need to know what you are doing on property purchases in Thailand - Freehold condos in Bangkok near the BTS or MTR for Farangs!). Exact amounts were required for TAX issues and I did not have a Thai Bank account to assit at the time.

What happened next? - The onshore offshore issue. Even the esteemed dr naam, for whom I have a huge amount of respect, did not quite grasp what was happening - Its all on the pinned thread on this section of the forum

So then it came down to AMEX card, (and that is not as bad as it looks in the UK I get back 1.5% on everything I put on it) and a UK GBP final payment via Nationwide to the develpers account at SCB - not err an exact amount - but dealt with by all concerened. The implications for that transfer were on 10m THB I could have been hit for 10% tax due to the emergency.

I have stabilised with a Thai BBL bank account - And you know what, another reason for this is to establish a personal credit history in Thailand as I move to operate here - IMO CRITICAL STUFF- as I accidently now seem to have serious assets here - It was not planned, but they are now of deep significance to me.

As a show of good will for your thoughts and help I will pop up to the Hampstead branch of Nationwide and take a good look at the forms. But as I have no need to test this service - and yes the UK expression is 'Test The Market' - I can only concluded from what I see -but I am no slouch

Will get back to you - Philip

Philip,

Please do not go to too much trouble on this, although I know NATIONWIDE as the largest building society in the UK has 700+ branches so you do not have to go far (for non-limeys, building societies are mutual organziations like credit unions in the USA) . Unlike Metro Bank which has just 2 branches as of today both in London, with 2 more opening this year.

If you want to make sure that funds are sent directly, you can ask them to put "do not convert" in the SWIFT message. Buf if the bank in question does not have a correspondent relationship with the Bank holding the account in Thailand (us in your case) it will have to go through an intermediary anyway. And that will incur charges both for the processing and the domestic clearing.

As for the credit history in Thailand, that is more and more important, as more companies share information via the NCB (National Credit Bureau). Again, that is a cooperative venture, nothing to do with antitrust, and unlike the US it is free for consumers to get their status whenever they want, in fact it is mailed twice a year to your home address.

I hear many foreigners complaining that it is hard to get a credit card here, but that is true in any country if there is not an easy means of recourse should a customer decide not to pay. People like you with assets in Thailand can often find it not such a headache to get local credit cards, so please contact me offline should that ever be of interest. Thanks

Ian

[jfchandler]

As for the credit history in Thailand, that is more and more important, as more companies share information via the NCB (National Credit Bureau). Again, that is a cooperative venture, nothing to do with antitrust, and unlike the US it is free for consumers to get their status whenever they want, in fact it is mailed twice a year to your home address.

Ian, while what you say above about the U.S. is technically true (it's not free "whenever"), it's also true that under federal law, U.S. consumers are entitled to a free copy of their credit reports from the three major credit bureaus once each year, which can be requested and accessed entirely online.

I believe it's also true U.S. consumers can obtain a free copy of their credit report any time they are the subject of an adverse credit decision (denial).

[jfchandler]

... I know NATIONWIDE as the largest building society in the UK has 700+ branches so you do not have to go far (for non-limeys, building societies are mutual organziations like credit unions in the USA) . Unlike Metro Bank which has just 2 branches as of today both in London, with 2 more opening this year.

Regarding Metro Bank in the UK, it's interesting that they do appear to require a branch visit in order to establish an account with them. Can't just open an account entirely online, which is becoming very common in the U.S., where you start online and then usually mail in some confirming documents.

But Metro Bank does offer online banking, so once an account is established, I'm assuming the account holder can move funds into and out of the account via online banking, without having to make a physical branch visit.

Assuming that's the case, the fact for UK folks that their checking account offers a MasterCard logo debit card with no foreign currency fees -- although it doesn't reimburse the Thai banks' 150 baht ATM withdrawal fee -- makes it a pretty appealing option for Brits traveling abroad. Especially compared to many of the other UK banks that charge 2 or 3% foreign currency surcharges.

And, if their MC debit card were to be used in conjunction with an AEON ATM in Thailand, it ought to offer an equal or better pricing return/net exchange rate compared to international wire transfers...

[pkrv]

Hi Ian, Not a problem.

Just got back from Nationwide.

To paint the picture the guy did say we are just a branch I will have to make some phone calls - Watching one side of the conversation and the screens Nationwide have access to, but not its clients - and I noted it did say on one screen you do not give this phone number out to clients - some valuable information appeared. (And BTW there was a lot of security handshaking as well.)

Essentially Nationwide use HSBC and they will quote a GBPTHB= rate that is valid up until 1pm UK time. it happened to be 46.495 whereas BBL's rate, a short while later, (a five minute walk) was 47.23 and World first 47.385 (but that is only indicative). What would happen if I ticked the 'pay all the other end fees' could not be explained by Nationwide.

My own personal UK position is that I do have a BBL account, I no longer need to transfer exact amounts, and times for transfer are not critical either.

I can get around the BBL Thai end fee of 500 THB by converting and shopping around and indeed getting a slightly better rate, plus a next day delivery type service.

However for the moment, and all things change, using BBL London is not a bad option - I think however that you guys are really missing out on quite a few tricks - not a subject for this forum though - another time - Philip.

[ianguygil]

Hi Ian, Not a problem.

Just got back from Nationwide.

To paint the picture the guy did say we are just a branch I will have to make some phone calls - Watching one side of the conversation and the screens Nationwide have access to, but not its clients - and I noted it did say on one screen you do not give this phone number out to clients - some valuable information appeared. (And BTW there was a lot of security handshaking as well.)

Essentially Nationwide use HSBC and they will quote a GBPTHB= rate that is valid up until 1pm UK time. it happened to be 46.495 whereas BBL's rate, a short while later, (a five minute walk) was 47.23 and World first 47.385 (but that is only indicative). What would happen if I ticked the 'pay all the other end fees' could not be explained by Nationwide.

My own personal UK position is that I do have a BBL account, I no longer need to transfer exact amounts, and times for transfer are not critical either.

I can get around the BBL Thai end fee of 500 THB by converting and shopping around and indeed getting a slightly better rate, plus a next day delivery type service.

However for the moment, and all things change, using BBL London is not a bad option - I think however that you guys are really missing out on quite a few tricks - not a subject for this forum though - another time - Philip.

Philip,

Thanks a lot for taking your time to clarify this.

The problem with the THB is that it is not a major trading currency. So while it may be dear to the hearts of many of us who live here, or who plan to live here, and while it is the core of all Thai banks, it is not something the offshore banks in places like London want to get into. So that is why I always tell people NEVER to change their cash into THB at a currency exchange outside of Thailand, and ALWAYS to change their money back in Thailand to their home currency before they leave here (unless they plan to hold onto it for later).

Thanks again. We value your business and I always appreciate the positive feedback. We are definitely not perfect and customer feedback is our best source to help us improve.

IAn

[pkrv]

Hi Ian,

Yes many will not understand the significance of a market instrument such as GBPTHB=

for example there is no such instrument as GBPINR= you have to do a hop via USD.

So yes I personally can gain some advantages by putting in legwork - But your general advice for large transfers is very well founded. You transfer in your local currency to Thailand, in my case via my BBL account, and allow the conversion to take place locally. It is quite an open process.

I do however find it odd that the US guys don’t often comment more on converting at their end.

[jfchandler]

Not sure what you mean below, PKRV...

Generally speaking, from the U.S., the normal way is to send U.S. dollars and have those converted to baht in Thailand...

The exchange rates offered by the banks in the U.S. for conversion to baht are terrible, generally speaking.

I do however find it odd that the US guys don't often comment more on converting at their end.

[pkrv]

Not sure what you mean below, PKRV...

Generally speaking, from the U.S., the normal way is to send U.S. dollars and have those converted to baht in Thailand...

The exchange rates offered by the banks in the U.S. for conversion to baht are terrible, generally speaking.

I do however find it odd that the US guys don't often comment more on converting at their end.

I will try to answer your question, but because I am not US will struggle a little, I have no specifics.

The US guys have a very powerful currency at their disposal. The FX global trading systems, and I am afraid we are not talking about retail banking here, make certain assumptions.

If I key in GBP= the system will automatically assume a cable trade GBPUSD=

The global FX trading systems in play are based out of the US. Any currency trade (well unless something has gone wrong) is possible DIRECTLY.

There is just absolutly no US chatter (to my knowledge) as to who can convert at a better rate.

I can say in the UK I have used Worldfirst and can convert at a slightly better rate than BBL (almost insignificant) but there are only a handfull of currencies worldfirst deal with, THB being one of them.

Why do you guys not post on your own FX brokers and compare rates, and obviously charges?

[ThaiBob]

...

I hear many foreigners complaining that it is hard to get a credit card here, but that is true in any country if there is not an easy means of recourse should a customer decide not to pay. People like you with assets in Thailand can often find it not such a headache to get local credit cards, so please contact me offline should that ever be of interest. Thanks

Ian

Ian,

I will be opening a Bangkok Bank account in January (next trip to LOS) and use New York branch ABA routing number solely as an emergency backup option should I ever have problems with ATM's in the future. I am currently with TMB and have the VISA Electron card linked to my savings account. I have never explored credit cards in LOS but I understand it is also difficult for foreigners to get a new car loan. This is a secured loan and so I don't understand the reluctance by Thai banks. But I want to buy a new car when I retire in LOS and is it possbile to get a loan through Bangkok Bank? Didn't want to hijack this thread so please PM me if you think best, and Thanks!

[ianguygil]

...

I hear many foreigners complaining that it is hard to get a credit card here, but that is true in any country if there is not an easy means of recourse should a customer decide not to pay. People like you with assets in Thailand can often find it not such a headache to get local credit cards, so please contact me offline should that ever be of interest. Thanks

Ian

Ian,

I will be opening a Bangkok Bank account in January (next trip to LOS) and use New York branch ABA routing number solely as an emergency backup option should I ever have problems with ATM's in the future. I am currently with TMB and have the VISA Electron card linked to my savings account. I have never explored credit cards in LOS but I understand it is also difficult for foreigners to get a new car loan. This is a secured loan and so I don't understand the reluctance by Thai banks. But I want to buy a new car when I retire in LOS and is it possbile to get a loan through Bangkok Bank? Didn't want to hijack this thread so please PM me if you think best, and Thanks!

Bob, sent you a PM. Let's deal with this outside the forum for privacy. You can decide to post or not post whatever you want after we talk.

Ian

[ianguygil]

...

I hear many foreigners complaining that it is hard to get a credit card here, but that is true in any country if there is not an easy means of recourse should a customer decide not to pay. People like you with assets in Thailand can often find it not such a headache to get local credit cards, so please contact me offline should that ever be of interest. Thanks

Ian

Ian,

I will be opening a Bangkok Bank account in January (next trip to LOS) and use New York branch ABA routing number solely as an emergency backup option should I ever have problems with ATM's in the future. I am currently with TMB and have the VISA Electron card linked to my savings account. I have never explored credit cards in LOS but I understand it is also difficult for foreigners to get a new car loan. This is a secured loan and so I don't understand the reluctance by Thai banks. But I want to buy a new car when I retire in LOS and is it possbile to get a loan through Bangkok Bank? Didn't want to hijack this thread so please PM me if you think best, and Thanks!

Bob, sent you a PM. Let's deal with this outside the forum for privacy. You can decide to post or not post whatever you want after we talk.

Ian

Bob, I sent the PM again. If not received please send me your email and I will get in touch with you from a Bank ID

[ThaiBob]

...

I hear many foreigners complaining that it is hard to get a credit card here, but that is true in any country if there is not an easy means of recourse should a customer decide not to pay. People like you with assets in Thailand can often find it not such a headache to get local credit cards, so please contact me offline should that ever be of interest. Thanks

Ian

Ian,

I will be opening a Bangkok Bank account in January (next trip to LOS) and use New York branch ABA routing number solely as an emergency backup option should I ever have problems with ATM's in the future. I am currently with TMB and have the VISA Electron card linked to my savings account. I have never explored credit cards in LOS but I understand it is also difficult for foreigners to get a new car loan. This is a secured loan and so I don't understand the reluctance by Thai banks. But I want to buy a new car when I retire in LOS and is it possbile to get a loan through Bangkok Bank? Didn't want to hijack this thread so please PM me if you think best, and Thanks!

Bob, sent you a PM. Let's deal with this outside the forum for privacy. You can decide to post or not post whatever you want after we talk.

Ian

Bob, I sent the PM again. If not received please send me your email and I will get in touch with you from a Bank ID

I got it, Thank you,

Bob

[ianguygil]

So as to "shake the cage" again on this subject of ATM charges.......

I have SCHWAB as I have said several times before, in fact I have had an account with them since they were owned by BofA back in the 80s' until Mr. Schwab bought them back (smart man). But I have never used their ATM card in Thailand as I work for Bangkok Bank.

As SCHWAB will refund all ATM fees worldwide, it seems to be that a very reasonable approach for a SCHWAB account holder while in Thailand would be to go to the ATM which is most convenient for them, be it a Bangkok Bank ATM or any other ATM in the ATM Pool (we have more than 7,000 ATMs, so I assume the whole ATM Pool is more than 20,000 machines). As any fee will be refunded by SCHWAB, why go to the trouble of finding a non-Pool ATM to avoid the charge?

I know they may "miss" the 150 Baht charge and you may need to send them a message to get it, but that could be easier than treking around to fine such a non-Pool machine.

[jfchandler]

Ian, I guess I'm not surprised you would make the suggestion below.... But I wouldn't agree with it...

I seriously doubt Schwab adopted the international ATM fees refund policy on their accounts with the idea that account holders would be living abroad and repeatedly incurring reimbursable ATM fees... especially the sky-high nearly $5 variety charged by the Thai banks "robbery pool" scheme. I would guess instead that Schwab's international ATM fees refund policy is geared more toward business travelers or tourists who might periodically incur such fees.

As such, and as a responsible account holder, I would not want to "abuse" the privilege associated with the account. And I would not want to engage in the kind of ATM behavior that would cause Schwab to either a) revoke the fees policy for a particular user's account, which I believe they reserve the right to do in the case of abuse, or b] to scrap the policy across the board for everyone.

So, as long as there are viable non-fee-charging ATMs available in Thailand such as the AEON ones, if they're available to a person, my view is it would be the responsible approach to use them so as to not "abuse" the account privilege offered by Schwab or other similar accounts.

Of course, the better approach would be for the Thai banks to adopt a REASONABLE, JUSTIFIABLE fee policy for foreign card ATM withdrawals, which most people including myself would have no problem with. But I think we've seen no sign that your employer or the others are inclined to do that, preferring instead to soak tourists and ex-pats who use foreign cards with what probably is one of the highest fees of its kind (fee charged by home country banks for users of cards from other countries) in the world...

So as to "shake the cage" again on this subject of ATM charges.......

I have SCHWAB as I have said several times before, in fact I have had an account with them since they were owned by BofA back in the 80s' until Mr. Schwab bought them back (smart man). But I have never used their ATM card in Thailand as I work for Bangkok Bank.

As SCHWAB will refund all ATM fees worldwide, it seems to be that a very reasonable approach for a SCHWAB account holder while in Thailand would be to go to the ATM which is most convenient for them, be it a Bangkok Bank ATM or any other ATM in the ATM Pool (we have more than 7,000 ATMs, so I assume the whole ATM Pool is more than 20,000 machines). As any fee will be refunded by SCHWAB, why go to the trouble of finding a non-Pool ATM to avoid the charge?

I know they may "miss" the 150 Baht charge and you may need to send them a message to get it, but that could be easier than treking around to fine such a non-Pool machine.

[ianguygil]

Ian, I guess I'm not surprised you would make the suggestion below.... But I wouldn't agree with it...

I seriously doubt Schwab adopted the international ATM fees refund policy on their accounts with the idea that account holders would be living abroad and repeatedly incurring reimbursable ATM fees... especially the sky-high nearly $5 variety charged by the Thai banks "robbery pool" scheme. I would guess instead that Schwab's international ATM fees refund policy is geared more toward business travelers or tourists who might periodically incur such fees.

As such, and as a responsible account holder, I would not want to "abuse" the privilege associated with the account. And I would not want to engage in the kind of ATM behavior that would cause Schwab to either a) revoke the fees policy for a particular user's account, which I believe they reserve the right to do in the case of abuse, or b] to scrap the policy across the board for everyone.

So, as long as there are viable non-fee-charging ATMs available in Thailand such as the AEON ones, if they're available to a person, my view is it would be the responsible approach to use them so as to not "abuse" the account privilege offered by Schwab or other similar accounts.

Of course, the better approach would be for the Thai banks to adopt a REASONABLE, JUSTIFIABLE fee policy for foreign card ATM withdrawals, which most people including myself would have no problem with. But I think we've seen no sign that your employer or the others are inclined to do that, preferring instead to soak tourists and ex-pats who use foreign cards with what probably is one of the highest fees of its kind (fee charged by home country banks for users of cards from other countries) in the world...

So as to "shake the cage" again on this subject of ATM charges.......

I have SCHWAB as I have said several times before, in fact I have had an account with them since they were owned by BofA back in the 80s' until Mr. Schwab bought them back (smart man). But I have never used their ATM card in Thailand as I work for Bangkok Bank.

As SCHWAB will refund all ATM fees worldwide, it seems to be that a very reasonable approach for a SCHWAB account holder while in Thailand would be to go to the ATM which is most convenient for them, be it a Bangkok Bank ATM or any other ATM in the ATM Pool (we have more than 7,000 ATMs, so I assume the whole ATM Pool is more than 20,000 machines). As any fee will be refunded by SCHWAB, why go to the trouble of finding a non-Pool ATM to avoid the charge?

I know they may "miss" the 150 Baht charge and you may need to send them a message to get it, but that could be easier than treking around to fine such a non-Pool machine.

John

Wow, You can even define what is ok and what is abusive. And you can define what SCHWAB would think is reasonable and what is not. What a guy. You really are a "legend in your own mind"

Enjoy your ramblings. I need to go to a meeting.:jap:

[jfchandler]

I'm sure Ian and his bank masters would like nothing more than to have the U.S. banking system subsidize their ATM "robbery pool" fees on tourists and ex-pats using foreign bank cards.

Obviously, for a lot of people who find the Thai banks' fees policy abusive and discriminatory, the best solution, if possible for individuals, is to simply avoid using any of their services that incur such fees as the 150 baht ATM withdrawal fee. Otherwise, people are simply subsidizing the entities that have promulgated an abusive fee policy.

[JimGant]

Obviously, for a lot of people who find the Thai banks' fees policy abusive and discriminatory, the best solution, if possible for individuals, is to simply avoid using any of their services that incur such fees as the 150 baht ATM withdrawal fee.

And for what percentage of us expats would that apply to? For us country folk, it makes absolutely no sense to drive to the nearest Aeon machine -- in terms of gas costs or convenience. And, even it somehow that fit in with my shopping routine, it collides with my desire -- and convenience -- to use my local bank (who can retrieve any 'eaten' card easily, if required).

I'm afraid a boycott of all ATM machines not Aeon gives a whole new meaning to 'pissing in the wind.'

I would guess instead that Schwab's international ATM fees refund policy is geared more toward business travelers or tourists who might periodically incur such fees.

Actually, JFC, their reimbursing you the 1% network fee comes to costing them 250bt on a 25k baht withdrawal -- compared to reimbursing just 150bt. So, your logic says -- shut down this 1% "gravy," 'the expats are milking us dry!' And E*Trade said: 'Yea, verily -- JFC is toast.'

it seems to be that a very reasonable approach for a SCHWAB account holder while in Thailand would be to go to the ATM which is most convenient for them,

Yea, verily on that too...

JFC, Al Gore also has a crusade. And when he was confronted with, who caused the glaciers that carved the Great Lakes to melt, both the Bible thumpers and scientists said, "It tweren't man." Huh, Al said.

When it becomes a religion, we know logic has been trumped.

Anyway, I bet you and Ian would have a great and entertaining discussion over a beer or two. I'd love to be there. Any bars near Aeon machines? (You're paying )

[jfchandler]

Jim, you must need a new pair of reading glasses... you seem to have conveniently overlooked my proviso regarding my suggested use of AEON ATMs....

"if possible for individuals"

You're trying to make a disagreement where none exists...

Actually, JFC, their reimbursing you the 1% network fee comes to costing them 250bt on a 25k baht withdrawal -- compared to reimbursing just 150bt. So, your logic says -- shut down this 1% "gravy," 'the expats are milking us dry!'

As for the comment above, I have not a clue on the point you're trying to make. I stand by my original comment... In all likelihood, Schwab intended their fee refunds -- both 1% and foreign ATM fees like the Thai banks 150 baht ATM fee -- to be used by tourists and periodic travelers -- not people making full time use of such refunds.

It's a great benefit for Schwab account holders. But only people like Ian would want to see it over-used...

If you love the Thai banks' 150 baht ATM fee so much, I'm sure Ian would be happy to offer you a free bank T-shirt emblazoned with the phase... "sucker!"

[JimGant]

As for the comment above, I have not a clue on the point you're trying to make.....Schwab intended their fee refunds -- both 1% and foreign ATM fees like the Thai banks 150 baht ATM fee -- to be used by tourists and periodic travelers -- not people making full time use of such refunds.

But, you're using their 1% foreign transaction fee refund to the max!! That's how you live over here. How do you escape the "not people making full time use of such refunds" descriptor?

you seem to have conveniently overlooked my proviso regarding my suggested use of AEON ATMs....

"if possible for individuals"

My point, Al, was, for the minority not using a Thai ATM card, the percentage of that minority who can easily fit an Aeon adventure into their day is too small to have your crusade make a dent against the Thai bankers. As Ian said, it makes a lot more sense to use the most convenient ATM machine -- most often not Aeon -- then file for reimbursement.

[jfchandler]

No Jim, I'm not... And in fact, I don't use a Schwab card and haven't to any great extent in the several years since I've had their accounts.

And as for your second comment, I don't know who is a majority vs. minority. There are a lot of AEON ATMs all around BKK, and some also around Pattaya and Chiang Mai. There certainly are a lot of ex-pats who live in the BKK area... How many periodically visit or pass Siam Paragon or a Tesco store or a Big C or a Carrefour (common AEON locations)??? I wouldn't presume to know or assume. Do you?

Lastly, no one's trying to launch a crusade, as you say. But everyone is free to make personal choices in accord with their own beliefs and positions. Maybe you live in a remote cave. But I live in a big city where there are multitude of different choices readily at hand.

But, you're using their 1% foreign transaction fee refund to the max!! That's how you live over here. How do you escape the "not people making full time use of such refunds" descriptor?

you seem to have conveniently overlooked my proviso regarding my suggested use of AEON ATMs....

"if possible for individuals"

My point, Al, was, for the minority not using a Thai ATM card, the percentage of that minority who can easily fit an Aeon adventure into their day is too small to have your crusade make a dent against the Thai bankers. As Ian said, it makes a lot more sense to use the most convenient ATM machine -- most often not Aeon -- then file for reimbursement.