h90 Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Have been unable to get past the title page of the Times since yesterday. I would put it down to the internet service, but in this situation obviously the govt spywatchers are working overtime to not let this through. And to think all I wanted to read was the reports on the rugby. I have read it today with no problems. The Times will not go past the title page for me. May be the internet, but all other pages are opening with no problem whatsoever. working for me (on true internet) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 I don't know much about The Times. Do they normally fabricate their stories? I don't know them as well, but wouldn't be interviews recorded normally? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinnieTheKhwai Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 (edited) Just read the full 12 pages and compared to the published version and can only say the editor did a job on that one. I agree. It may not have registered to an editor just how outrageous the end result was in a Thai context. I don't think it was intentionally malicious, just another journalist's cock up. Got Thaksin in severe trouble though, which is unfortunate. The full interview is actually highly interesting, and you learn a lot about how Thailand works at the top level. It is highly unlikely the Times would fabricate any of the story. Just creative editing. Would be interesting to know if the interview was conducted in English (I didn't think Thaksin's English was that good) or done via a translator. Dr. Thaksin's English is definitely good enough; and in the transcript you recognize the style when he speaks English. Also keep in mind that he got a lot of quality exposure to English over the last couple years. His English should be a lot better now than it was when he was PM. Edited November 9, 2009 by WinnieTheKhwai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awd Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Seems like a good interview to me. If Thaksin's name wasn't on it, I don't think most thinking people would think it wasn't a valid perspective on current events. Unfortunately, thought is against tradition in these parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tominbkk Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 (edited) I don't know them as well, but wouldn't be interviews recorded normally? I'm sure it would be...I agree, the juiciest parts were taken out to make a rather salacious article, but Thaksin should not be blabbering about those matters, if he knows what is good for him (which he doesn't, obviously). Sensationalized, but there are no lies, that is exactly what he said, in his words. Edited November 9, 2009 by tominbkk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man River Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Note, Thaksin is not saying he was misquoted or that his comments were taken out of context. Instead, he is saying that the alleged offending comments are a total lie. I don't know much about The Times. Do they normally fabricate their stories? To be honest all newspapers have a history of sprucing things up if it means selling a few more papers. The Times in fairness though is one of the better papers in The UK, and really there is no political motivation for the times to try and push a certain angle of the story. My understanding is that the journalist is respected and has a track record of reporting in Asia. Yes, the media often spruces things up, but that isn't about that. Thaksin isn't saying his comments were taken out of context, but rather that The TimesOnline lied. He is saying he never said anything like this. Hence, either The TimesOnline lied in their story or he is lying. There is no middle ground on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtoad Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Note, Thaksin is not saying he was misquoted or that his comments were taken out of context. Instead, he is saying that the alleged offending comments are a total lie. I don't know much about The Times. Do they normally fabricate their stories? To be honest all newspapers have a history of sprucing things up if it means selling a few more papers. The Times in fairness though is one of the better papers in The UK, and really there is no political motivation for the times to try and push a certain angle of the story. My understanding is that the journalist is respected and has a track record of reporting in Asia. Yes, the media often spruces things up, but that isn't about that. Thaksin isn't saying his comments were taken out of context, but rather that The TimesOnline lied. He is saying he never said anything like this. Hence, either The TimesOnline lied in their story or he is lying. There is no middle ground on this. I very much doubt that The Times lied, that is my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crushdepth Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 (edited) Is anyone really suprised? Thaksin's views on this have been pretty clear to anyone with half a brain for some time. I'm just suprised the 'R' word wasn't in there. I have no sympathy for a man who is prepared to divide a whole country for his own selfish ends. Disgusting. Edited November 9, 2009 by Crushdepth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man River Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Note, Thaksin is not saying he was misquoted or that his comments were taken out of context. Instead, he is saying that the alleged offending comments are a total lie. I don't know much about The Times. Do they normally fabricate their stories? To be honest all newspapers have a history of sprucing things up if it means selling a few more papers. The Times in fairness though is one of the better papers in The UK, and really there is no political motivation for the times to try and push a certain angle of the story. My understanding is that the journalist is respected and has a track record of reporting in Asia. Yes, the media often spruces things up, but that isn't about that. Thaksin isn't saying his comments were taken out of context, but rather that The TimesOnline lied. He is saying he never said anything like this. Hence, either The TimesOnline lied in their story or he is lying. There is no middle ground on this. I very much doubt that The Times lied, that is my opinion. That is my opinion as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Do I believe the Times of London, one of the most respected newspapers in the world, or Thaksin's claim that the whole 12-page article is a lie and he never said any of it ? Tough call. I never thought I'd say so, but I actually trust Murdoch's 'rag', in this particular case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awd Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 At least the TV forum is promoting reading the article. In the past, so much foreign reporting has been unavailable to the average Thai expat. Bravo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man River Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Is anyone really suprised? Thaksin's views on this have been pretty clear to anyone with half a brain for some time. I'm just suprised the 'R' word wasn't in there. You can't take beliefs into court. However, given Thailand's strict laws on this, you can take comments that are backed up by hard evidence. It remains to be seen if authorities follow up on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insight Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 I'm looking forward to the response from The Times. How did Thaksin expect his words to be interpreted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lannarebirth Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 It's like in one of those Bond movies where the arch criminal has the upperhand, but feels he must take an extra moment to savor the champions demise. They never see it coming. Time to roll credits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geekfreaklover Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 "Thaksin Shinawatra claimed on Monday that the interview published on Times online was a total lie and distorted, adding that it had caused misunderstanding among readers and Thais." Total lie? Extremely unlikely. Distorted? Yes. Taken out of context. Caused misunderstanding among readers and Thais? Oh yes. The Times did the right think to subsequently publish the whole transcript. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justanothercybertosser Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 ^ I have and no he doesn't...Regards Agreed, Thaksin has hung himself with this. Where has he hung himself, please? He praised the monarchy, and all members of the Royal Family during the interview. He has though heavily criticized members of the Privy Council and other parts of the palace circle, which is not against the law. The transcript of the interview makes much better reading than the story itself though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammered Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 The full transcript was published before Thaksin claimed the lie. The times clearly anticipated the reaction and wanted evidence up. A transcript indicates a tape too. The Times would almost certainly have taken legal advice before publishing this to be sure Thaksin wouldnt sue them and imho he is very very unlikely to do so. Whether the authorites will take action remains to be seen but the transcript remains as evidence and as Thaksin has claimed it a lie it will be an interesting case. A reading of the transcript seems damning enough without even moving to discuss the shorter article. The other problem Thaksin has is he is not fighting the Dems over this but is fighting a very well respected newspaper and one which tends not to be sensationalist. It will also be interesting to see how his supporters try to spin this away. The lie angle will be very hard to support imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammered Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 ^ I have and no he doesn't...Regards Agreed, Thaksin has hung himself with this. Where has he hung himself, please? He praised the monarchy, and all members of the Royal Family during the interview. He has though heavily criticized members of the Privy Council and other parts of the palace circle, which is not against the law. The transcript of the interview makes much better reading than the story itself though. You know we cannot discuss detail however I suggest reading it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Have been unable to get past the title page of the Times since yesterday. I would put it down to the internet service, but in this situation obviously the govt spywatchers are working overtime to not let this through. And to think all I wanted to read was the reports on the rugby. I have read it today with no problems. The Times will not go past the title page for me. May be the internet, but all other pages are opening with no problem whatsoever. working for me (on true internet) Got it from another source. Well well. It will of course problems and will become a cause celebre, because there will be absolutely no way that anyone will ever translate it into Thai for the public to decipher it in totality. Others will label it insulting, rude etc with 99% of people never actually reading the whole article. It doesn't matter what he said, because that is the way it is in Thailand. He lost control of the message the moment he did this interview. The Times edited the intro to get people to read it, and that is enough to cause him a lot of trouble. The 12 page article itself was his point of view and probably not entirely wrong, but of course there can't be any discourse about it in LOS. I am sure they will slap him with a LM or National Security charge for this one, simply because under the current rules, that is what it will be construed as. Thinking out loud is a dangerous pastime. As for the article being a lie? I don't think Mr. Parry Jones flew all the way to Dubai not to talk to him, do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
givenall Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Can someone please Mr. T to shut the f…k up and stop these nonsense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brahmburgers Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 I read the interview, all 12 pages <snip> Even though I thoroughly dislike the man, I have to say there was nothing that seemed dastardly in the interview. He mentioned and referred to the Royal family often - yet he was responding to questions relating to that topic. Nothing T said appeared to be even slightly anti-Royal. If, on the other hand, a person wanted to find instances of T alluding to himself as the shining white knight who's the only person capable to saving Thailand from itself, then that person would find a lot of juicy ammunition. My beef, is how T repeatedly harped about what dire condition Thailand and its poor people are in, and insisted that things will only get worse, until he's brought back to power. That, to me, is a juvenile tactic (among his many other childish ways) to put something down if he doesn't get his way. "Tommy won't share his plastic truck with me, so I'm going to destroy all his toys." .....sort of mentality. BTW, I was surprised he ventured an answer on how much money he had outside of Thailand. T said a few hundred million dollars, and then when pressed, he downplayed it to say he just had about 100 million dollars, because he had been buying houses and businesses. In the same breath, he pretends to care about the impoverished downtrodden in Thailand. What a hypocrite! He has no idea what real poverty is. Everything for him is a political equation and/or a means to amass ever more gross amounts of lucre. He also said he gives no money to his supporters in Thailand. If I could get one dollar from him for every lie he's told, I'd have more money the he has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtoad Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Looks like the article may well have been blocked. The transcript is still there, but can't access the article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 He simply gave his opinion on what he believes has happened, is happening and is going to happen. People all over the country have the same questions, but aren't supposed to "Think too mut!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Traveller Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Just to confirm the article now clicks over to w3.mict.go.th Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man River Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 It will of course problems and will become a cause celebre, because there will be absolutely no way that anyone will ever translate it into Thai for the public to decipher it in totality. Others will label it insulting, rude etc with 99% of people never actually reading the whole article. It doesn't matter what he said, because that is the way it is in Thailand.I am sure they will slap him with a LM or National Security charge for this one, simply because under the current rules, that is what it will be construed as. If they slap him with LM, then enough of his comments will be translated into Thai language and reported by the Thai media. This may well be his undoing in the northeast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frodo Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Still have access with TOT. Don't know how much longer though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 (edited) Historically speaking, the beginning of his political end started at Black Songkran. It takes awhile, that's all. Sooner or later, even his most fervent true believers are going to have to accept the real truth about their dear leader. Edited November 9, 2009 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Traveller Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 (edited) ^^ OMR Oddly, no, since under LM previsions no publication may be made of the offending remarks until the case has been completed, and then only if the case fails can the remarks be published. Regards /edit chevrons/ Edited November 9, 2009 by A_Traveller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Historically speaking, the beginning of his political end started at Black Songkran. It takes awhile, that's all. Sooner or later, even his most fervent true believers are going to have to accept the real truth about their dear leader. I don't see much in this article that is going to turn his most fervent true believers away. That assumes they get to read the entire 12 page transcript. Maybe if they serialise it on TV with boings people will take it in. Other than that, it will be shouted to the moon that this article is insulting to important people with very few people actually bothering to read the whole thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsy Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 (edited) I would imagine that the government are probably quite happy to give Thaksin a bit of rope on this one. Certainly with some of the Thai comments on the article that are posted below, he certainly has upset a few people with the comments. And now that the story has been picked up by Thai television news, he's going to upset a whole lot more people. At the restaurant where the news was playing on the tv, several customers commented that Thaksin was lying when the reporter was saying that Thaksin denied the interview and that he didn't say what the article said he said. He lost a lot of supporters when he called for a revolution in April (after making sure his kiddies escaped out of the country first). He is going to lose a lot more of them over this. Edited November 9, 2009 by rsy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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