Thai Government Seeking International Help In Capturing Thaksin

[Grey11]

All your comments hinting at assassination, I find primitive and disgusting.

I can only say: "He that is without sin among you let him cast the first stone."

I guarantee you the Israelis (always holier than thou) would have already taken care of him. Shin Bet hunts down enemies of Israel and do away with them all over the world.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

^ That implies competence and decisiveness. If Abhisit's government possessed that then these debates would be far shorter.

[Sateev]

Thailand will never move on because even if they arrest Thaksin the powers that be in this country will manage to create another mess that damages the Thailand, it doesn't matter which side they are on Democrats, reds, yellows, blues, PAD, it just doesn't matter, the results are always the same. Thailand is a 2nd would country and always will be.

Thailand isn't, and never has been a 'second world' country. That it is a second rate country is arguable. 'Second World' means that it is developed AND aligned with the former Soviet bloc. Thailand is a Third World country, which may someday become a First World country, developed and aligned with the so-called 'free world'...

But not if Thaksin has his way...

[fxe1200]

interesting to see how this plays out

Well on the BBC this morning Mr Shinawatra was being greeted for his new Job as financial advise in Cambodia. Maybe he is Broke!!

No, the Cambodians want him to spent the money he is earning with that 35-years lasting mobile/landline contract with Cambodia within the country and not abroad. That is what they learned from Thaksinomics.

[Grey11]

The only mistake the present government is making is not throwing a few more crumbs - wouldn't take much to outdo Thaksin - to the farmers in Isaan. It doesn't take much to get their votes. Pay the leaders of each village, pass out a few baht to each person in line to vote,, and the legend of "helping the poor" that Thaksin has created would disappear.

Isn't this what they accused Thaksin and Thai Rak Thai, Puea Thai and Thaksin's other parties of? Vote buying?

Oh, right. If Thaksin does it, it's bad. If Abhisit does it, it's democracy. My bad!

That's just the way it is done. It is more subtle in Western countries. I think Thaksin, being a billionaire, had more money to pass out in all of northern Thailand. Like Obama, thaksin talked a good game and made big promises. Thaksin delivered on some of his - throw a few crumbs toward the rural poor and you've got their votes. So Thaksin and Obama are a lot alike. Only Thaksin didn't get a Pulitizer Prize after being in office 7 months. People need hope and a good talker gives them that. Name me a country where you do not think there is vote buying. Nixon lost Chicago and the 1960 presidential election by the Kennedy campaign giving big money to the city of Chicago and Mayor Dailey. The many "dead" voters who voted for Kennedy pushed Illinois into the Kennedy camp and therefore the election - electoral votes. Nixon, rather than challenge the voter fraud in court was promised that his time would come after 8 years of Democrat Presidents. In 1968 when LBJ decided not to run for re-election, Nixon won the presidency. In 1948 Lyndon Johnson, successor to Kennedy, was elected U.S. Senator from Texas over Governor Coke Stevenson when 187 votes came in a few days after the election ended from a county on the Texas-Mexico border. Strange thing was all 187 were discovered to be deceased. Stevenson stepped aside and "Landslide Lyndon" Baines Johnson became President after Kennedy was assassianted and was re-elected in 1964. Judge Parr totally controlled - I think it was Starr County - the vote in the county and was a personal friend of LBJ. There are many ways that votes are bought.

[travelguy]

Are coups legal in a democracy?

[SPIKECM]

Looks to me that Thaksin just might have shot himself in the foot with his Cambodian move. Apisit surely knows this too. It was quite obviously something which could easily be translated as the betrayal of Thai people. Cambodia is mistrusted by most rural Thais especially with the kow-pra wi-han situation....all it needs now is the government's propoganda machine in full throttle and this could well be the start of a downfall in Thaksin's rural support...hardly looks much of a shrewd move by the shrewd Thaksin.

[Jingthing]

Are coups legal in a democracy?

Not only legal, but compulsory. Next ...

[Jingthing]

Looks to me that Thaksin just might have shot himself in the foot with his Cambodian move. Apisit surely knows this too. It was quite obviously something which could easily be translated as the betrayal of Thai people. Cambodia is mistrusted by most rural Thais especially with the kow-pra wi-han situation....all it needs now is the government's propoganda machine in full throttle and this could well be the start of a downfall in Thaksin's rural support...hardly looks much of a shrewd move by the shrewd Thaksin.

Just another rise and FALL story. Thaksin is a now a penny stock.

[travelguy]

Are coups legal in a democracy?

Not only legal, but compulsory. Next ...

Actually, they're not.

But now we've been able to establish the intellectual baseline...and it's low. : )

There are some real interesting articles on the internet about Thailand by publications like the Economist, Times, Newsweek, etc...of course, they have no idea what's going on here...even though their reporters are based here. You can't read any of them here because truth and reality are still verboten.

What I see here on a regular basis is not much better than the mentality of a National Enquirer reader in the US.

[rixalex]

Good to see so many new members joining this thread.

[travelguy]

Good to see so many new members joining this thread.

From what I can see most members joined before you ; )

[tmark]

Are coups legal in a democracy?

Coups are usually performed by the military. There's no democracy in the military .. got that soldier? If they are strong enough they don't have to care about rules.

"International Rules of Love and War" .....  "Section 1. Rule 1 "All's fair" ...... End of rules

Edited November 10, 2009 by tmark

[travelguy]

Are coups legal in a democracy?

Coups are usually performed by the military. There's no democracy in the military .. got that soldier? If they are strong enough they don't have to care about rules.

"International Rules of Love and War" ..... "all's fair"

The point is, they are not legal if a future government restores a previous democratically established constitution.

It then becomes an act of treason and all responsible may be held accountable.

Thinking 3 steps ahead is why the current government spends all their time worrying about Thaksin. He's a much better chess player.

People will do a lot more to prevent somebody taking from them than they will to achieve more.

Who was Thaksin really taking from? If you say the "people", you don't get it.

[EnhancePlus]

All parties involved are just tearing this wonderful country and its people to shreds When will the silent majority have peace?

[rixalex]

Good to see so many new members joining this thread.

From what I can see most members joined before you ; )

The plot does indeed thicken...

[tmark]

 

Who was Thaksin really taking from? If you say the "people", you don't get it.

If Thailand had a fully mature and "efficient" working democracy then indeed it would have been the "people". I think though .. that LOS still has vestiges of Feudalism hanging in the dark corners. More up to date versions of it .. but still. So .. your probably right. 

[travelguy]

 

Who was Thaksin really taking from? If you say the "people", you don't get it.

If Thailand had a fully mature and "efficient" working democracy then indeed it would have been the "people". I think though .. that LOS still has vestiges of Feudalism hanging in the dark corners. More up to date versions of it .. but still. So .. your probably right. 

You have no idea how refreshing it is to read what you just wrote.

[jitenshaman]

Cambodia's recent activities with Thaksin really scaring thai gov......i wonder why..

I don't think it's about being scared. He is doing irrepairable damage to the country so something had to give.

They should have done it a long time ago. Get this matter resolved once and for all so the country can move on.

You must be kidding right? The Thai people elected Thaksin and the "other" political party with the help of the military took over when Thaksin was out of the country. The current government is a sham without the people's support. Thaksin is the rightful democratic leader of Thailand. Thaksin's a good businessman and was good for Thailand. Even if he profited from government contracts ............ any government leadership would do the same thing. All politicians are crooks in ALL Countries. I would rather have a good businessman running the country than the people currently in office.

The Thai people elected him. That is right, at 500 baht a head. Why dont they invite international observers to come in and monitor a non paid for election scam next time. There might be some very different results.

[Publicus]

Let's remember that Abhisit's primary enemy, of which he is petrified, isn't Thaksin but the Thai electorate. The military can protect him only so long.

I had to laugh out loud when I read this. Not because what you say isn't true but because most people on this forum cannot see the truth in what you said. Hey people, Thaksin was ejected by a coup e'tat. Everything this government does is illegal. I would like to see Thaksin arrested and brought back to Thailand to face the judgment of the people. If he was he would be reelected and restored to his rightful place at the head of government. And again he would be forced from office by the elite scum who have no respect for the will of the people. Is Thaksin corrupt? Of course. Are the people currently in power corrupt? Of course. The question is can the people choose which corrupt politician they want in power or not? Most people on this forum, I assume, come from countries who elect their representatives democratically yet they self righteously defend the coup which overthrew Thailand's democratically elected leader -- something they would abhor if that happened in their own country.

Hear Hear!

Har Har!!

We have discussed a thousand times that Thaksin at the time of the coup was acting caretaker of the government, not a democratically elected PM. Few farang at this forum express support of the coup, or of coups in general.

Being from democratically elected governments, we tend to recognize an explotaitive, arbitrary, unitary leader when we see one. Given that TiT, we also could forsee the outlines of Thaksin in government forever, a distinctly ugly vision.

TiT, Thaskin destroyed the 1997 widely hailed constitution by emasculating it of each and every democratic feature. TiT, thus absent any constitutional means of removing a tyrant, the people have the right to overthrow both he and his regime. TiT, that meant the military had to act as the population is incapable of either the armed force required to overthrow the tyrant, or of the intellectual or organizational skills to carry out such an inherently awesome act.

In 1974 Portugal leftist captains led a coup that ousted the fascist dictator Salazar and Portugal since has gone on to prosper, to include arguably providing the most successful president of the European Union Countil of State, Portuguese PM Manuel Barosso who now has completed realization of the Lisbon Treaty.

Am I in favor of military mutiny to seize state power, no. Am I in favor of a dictator who publically and cynically equates corruption to the national culture, custom and tradition, no. Choose your poison. Fortunately, not all doses of poison are equally effective or successful.

[rixalex]

The Thai people elected him. That is right, at 500 baht a head. Why dont they invite international observers to come in and monitor a non paid for election scam next time. There might be some very different results.

Vote buying is a bit of a non-issue simply because all of the parties do it.

With or without vote buying, the TRT party would have won any election at that time. They had real support.

But that was then. This is now. Things have moved on.

[baht&sold]

Who was Thaksin really taking from? If you say the "people", you don't get it.

Then you don't get it.

Obviously.

[belgianguy]

Almost all Thailand wants Thaksin again. I hope with all my heart that he will come back soon. The Thai people elected him on a democratic way. I think all government and army staff are the real criminals. I never saw so much criminality in Thailand as last year.

Cambodia's recent activities with Thaksin really scaring thai gov......i wonder why..

I don't think it's about being scared. He is doing irrepairable damage to the country so something had to give.

They should have done it a long time ago. Get this matter resolved once and for all so the country can move on.

You must be kidding right? The Thai people elected Thaksin and the "other" political party with the help of the military took over when Thaksin was out of the country. The current government is a sham without the people's support. Thaksin is the rightful democratic leader of Thailand. Thaksin's a good businessman and was good for Thailand. Even if he profited from government contracts ............ any government leadership would do the same thing. All politicians are crooks in ALL Countries. I would rather have a good businessman running the country than the people currently in office.

The Thai people elected him. That is right, at 500 baht a head. Why dont they invite international observers to come in and monitor a non paid for election scam next time. There might be some very different results.

[jitenshaman]

again...where did i put that long range sniper rifle?

I really don't know which person I should respond to so I picked you because you must have fascist blood in you somewhere.

As this forum goes I'm just a newbie and figure my opinion doesn't mean squat to most of you. I get from your responses that a lot of you are liberal Europeans. I've only been here for a few years, but I remember when Taksin asked the King if he should step down. The King told him no. I remember when the legally elected Prime Minister left his country to attend to State business outside of the country and a bunch of military leaders that were trying to cover for their dirty friends took over the country by military coup. I remember that they tried him in abstentia, which means that he didn't have a chance in h3!! of defending himself. I remember that the opposing party lost the second election too. But their rioting and protests caused the government that was in power (Taksin's government) to step down for the good of Thailand.

I have to admit I'm a naïve American. I believe that the majority rules. (Or I would be out hunting for a Presidential pretender!!) Why is it that many of you think it's alright for the losers of the election to take this country by force, but that the head of the duly elected government should be shot, arrested, or incarcerated?

I know this sounds like a rant for Taksin, and I do believe he is good for the country, ( I know stupid American Yah dah, Yah dah, Yah dah,) but beyond that you talk about second world countries, like they're a bad thing. If this is so, and you choose to live in one, then shouldn't we be encouraging democracy (the majority rules), rather than who owns the media wins? I know your going to roast me, but that's okay it's been done by experts.

.

Hello fellow American Stevemck,

I remember Thailand before Thaksin was PM, while Thaksin was PM and after Thaksin had been PM.

I also remember the United States before George W. Bush was president (in a clear steal), while GWB was president and after GWB was president.

I'll take both Abhisit and Obama, thank you.

i also remember back in early 2000, when a Thai court found that Thaksin had done no wrong despite the fact that his maid and housekeeper were in the top ten of the Thai stockexchange with "their" investments, and there was no cry of the courts are unfair or being paid off, and i remember when the 2500 "suspected" drug dealers were shot in the head without a trial on orders from Mr Toxin, and there was no cry about unfair justice or courts back then.....and I remember when it was found that Toxin and his wife had tried to bribe the judges prior to their conviction for the most recent charges, with still no cry of how the courts are impartial and unfair....face it, the man is a convicted felon, an egotistical and shrewd money grubber who got caught red handed. Even G.W. didnt go that far.

[rixalex]

We have discussed a thousand times that Thaksin at the time of the coup was acting caretaker of the government, not a democratically elected PM.

Only a thousand?

[baht&sold]

Almost all Thailand wants Thaksin again. I hope with all my heart that he will come back soon. The Thai people elected him on a democratic way. I think all government and army staff are the real criminals.

Would that include the multiple old skool profiteering Generals 'for hire' who are loyal to Mr Thaksin as they see him as best to 'protect and self-serve' in their joint interests?

The Thai people elected him. That is right, at 500 baht a head.

Nuff said then

[Publicus]

Are coups legal in a democracy?

Of course coups are not legal anywhere, as all here should know. Accordingly, see the above post.

Further, was the 2000 decision by the US Supreme Court, on a 5-4 ruling, to stop the vote count in Florida in the contest for president a coup to install Geo W Bush? The Supreme Court stopped the Florida counting for Bogus Ballot Box Bush at about the same number as the state court in Texas did in the vote count for Landslide Lyndon.

Regardless of your answers, the above instances are abberations, not the rule as they are in Third World, Old World highly personalized crony democracies. Thaksin considers vote buying to be the standard procedure as well it is, and took it to new and unprecedented levels and extents.

[george]

Update:

THAKSIN'S NEW ROLE

Red carpet welcome

Thaksin 'not here to engage in political activities'

PHNOM PENH: -- Phnom Penh - Fugitive former premier Thaksin Shinawatra received a warm welcome on his arrival in Phnom Penh yesterday to serve as an economic adviser to Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen.

After his private jet landed at Phnom Penh International Airport in the morning, he was whisked away in a motorcade to Hun Sen's official residence.

Thaksin's first day in the Cambodian capital began with a series of courtesy calls to senior people in the ruling Cambodian People's Party and ended in dinner with Hun Sen and his family.

It is said he was treated to a nine-course meal of various traditional delicacies. According to Thai belief, nine is considered a lucky number.

Thaksin is due to give a lecture to more than 300 Cambodian economists tomorrow.

The former PM's new role in Cambodia has fuelled friction between the two countries, as Thailand wants to seek his extradition in connection with a corruption case but Phnom Penh has clearly said it will not entertain the request.

However, Cambodian government spokesman Phay Siphan said Thaksin would only be concentrating on economic matters for the country's development and should not spark any more tension with Thailand.

"He is here for economic reasons, not activities related to politics," he said. "Cambodia does not allow foreign nationals to engage in political activities within our country."

Cambodia wants to live in harmony with her neighbours, he added.

Meanwhile, upon landing in Phnom Penh, Thaksin posted a Twitter message saying he had landed, but was "really homesick".

"Tonight I will dine with P M Hun Sen and his family. I want to reiterate that nation, religion and the monarchy are always on my mind," he wrote.

However, Thaksin's arrival in Phnom Penh angered the Thai government, which retaliated by tearing up the maritime memorandum of understanding signed between the two countries during Thaksin's time. Sources say the government fears that the ex-PM, who knows each and every detail about the pact, might reveal some national secrets to his new boss.

The MoU was signed in 2001 to thrash out matters involving the demarcation of territorial waters and the joint development area in the Gulf of Thailand, where abundant reserves of natural gas are believed to be waiting to be discovered.

Cambodian Foreign Ministry spokesman Koy Kuong said the MoU was not meant for Cambodia alone, but would benefit both parties. He added that the agreement had been signed by two nations, and could not be broken by one party.

"It's funny to say that the MoU must be terminated just because Thaksin and Hun Sen have vested interests," Koy Kuong told The Nation yesterday. He added that Cambodia had not yet decided on its response.

However, analysts believe Thaksin's visit has sparked anger and fear that could drag down relations between the two countries and have the borders simmering.

Cheang Vannarith, executive director of the Cambodian Institute for Cooperation and Peace, a Phnom Penh-based political research organisation, said Hun Sen had obviously factored in the Thai general election expected to be held next year.

"Hun Sen clearly believes the Thaksin group could win the next elections," Vannarith said. "By that time bilateral ties can be rebuilt and the friendship restored."

Thitinan Pongsudhirak, a political scientist at Chulalongkorn University, disagreed. "It could boomerang on him," he said. "We Thais might fight among ourselves, but as soon as you have an outsider meddling, we tend to close ranks and turn against it."

Thaksin's move benefits both the ousted leader and his Cambodian host, but could bring the two countries closer to war, analysts have said.

Experts are warning that the two neighbours are now locked in a dangerous game of brinkmanship that could reignite deadly clashes over the Preah Vihear Temple issue. They say the pressure is now on Thailand not to overreact, after it angrily pulled its ambassador from Phnom Penh last week and scrapped the oil and gas exploration deal.

"How bad it gets will depend on whether Abhisit keeps his cool and resists pressure from those who are intent on this conflict escalating," said Michael Montesano, a visiting research fellow at the Institute of Southeast Asian Studies in Singapore.

"But if he keeps making announcements of the kind he has made in the past few days then things could get much, much worse," he added.

Analysts said all three parties could lose if the temperature boiled over and fresh clashes erupted.

Hun Sen, with an army that is smaller than Thailand's, is playing a "dangerous game", while Thaksin risks appearing unpatriotic and PM Abhisit Vejjajiva risks ruining his own and Thailand's image on the international stage, analysts warn.

-- The Nation 2009-11-11

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[baht&sold]

Suspect many ardent Thaksin supporters here 'simply' wish their unrealistic Walter Mitty-esque lifestyles could somehow be rejuvenated if only Mr Thaksin could 'bring back the good times' (nothing to do with 'democracy';). Nevermind the world has completely changed since and as always, wherever YOU go (warts n all) there YE be.... (Phils, Nam, Cambo etc, etc, or even blighty = same-same, as time and self grinds for some, as always sadly, wherever they go)

Therefore, sorry Thaksin FEARang supporters, but the pound won't rebound to 75 (etc), the Leo won't get colder and the girls won't get warmer= 'POOF' and welcome to REALITY. With Mr Thaksin or without, build a bridge and get over it already, or you're likely done as well. Chok dee.

Edited November 10, 2009 by baht&sold

[LazarusLong]

I just don't understand Cambodia's intentions by even having Thaksin there. It almost seems that life is so dull that one needs to pick a fight with someone or something just to make it interesting. Can't Thaksin consider this a work at home job and do it from the comfort of some tropical island? What a home business opportunity, advisor to Cambodia, I wonder if he accepts Paypal?

Don't speak of "Cambodia's Intentions" but the intentions of Hun Sen and his entourage.

One the one hand Cambodia is dependent on Western aid (ever seen all those big SUV's before the 4 and 5 star hotels? AUSAid, UNHCR, WFP, etc.etc...name the professional do-gooders, they're there), on the other hand probably the corruptest country on earth.

Hun Sen just hopes Thaksin would be able to fill his coffers - look at all the Hummers, GMC Denalis, Porsches etc. with CAAC Military plates - easy to understand why they are in desperate need of some unscrupulos tycoon. Thaksin is good in that, and from own experience I can think of a number of real money machines in Cambodia. May it be aviation, creation of tax-free special economy zones, gambling, prostitution (well, call it entertainment :-) - there are real opportunities, provided that you have found access to high government officals so that you know in advance what amount of bribes you gotta include in your calculations and to make sure there will not be any law enacted just to schmooze the NGO's and pry out some additional "help". Read the Phnom Penh Post, or just go there, and you undestand why.

That being said I actually admire Thaksin for his business savvy - if I were him I would certainly move in the same direction, it's the logical thing to do.