Thai Girl Has UK Visa But Finished With Boyfriend, Can Still Use?

[gregchambers]

If a Thai girl has a recently issued and unused visitor visa for the UK but the guy who sponsored her has finished with her, can she still visit the UK on that visa with someone else?

And do the immigration in the UK have the details of the sponsor on their computer?

[chiang mai]

If it's a tourist visa then the young lady is free to use it until it expires and the issue of sponsorship is, I believe, largely irrelevant.

Edited November 14, 2009 by chiang mai

[gotlost]

Don't fell bad she has her visa and new boyfriends are 1 satang a dozen. At least you did marry her.

[givenall]

Don't fell bad she has her visa and new boyfriends are 1 satang a dozen. At least you did marry her.

I thought revenge is something that Thai gals do. What is up with Franag. Plus I don’t think she will g since Farang will not pay

[7by7]

If it's a tourist visa then the young lady is free to use it until it expires and the issue of sponsorship is, I believe, largely irrelevant.

This is not the case.

Para 321(ii) of the immigration rules would apply here.

321. A person seeking leave to enter the United Kingdom who holds an entry clearance which was duly issued to him and is still current may be refused leave to enter only where the Immigration Officer is satisfied that:

(ii) a change of circumstances since it was issued has removed the basis of the holder's claim to admission, except where the change of circumstances amounts solely to the person becoming over age for entry in one of the categories contained in paragraphs 296-316 of these Rules since the issue of the entry clearance

(My emphasis)

I suspect that the details of the sponsor and the basis on which the visa was issued would be available to the IO at port of entry, should they wish to see it.

It may be that she would be allowed straight through immigration with the minimum of delay and questioning, as most visitors are; but if she were questioned and the IO discovered that she was no longer in a relationship with her sponsor then she would be refused entry. If she were to lie about it and the IO discovered that she was lying, by telephoning her ex boyfriend for example, then she could be banned from visiting the UK for up to 10 years.

NB, topic title edited to include 'UK.'

[loong]

If an angry ex-boyfriend has paid for a visa to be processed, is it possible that he may inform the immigration dept that he will no longer act as sponsor?

[chiang mai]

If it's a tourist visa then the young lady is free to use it until it expires and the issue of sponsorship is, I believe, largely irrelevant.

This is not the case.

Para 321(ii) of the immigration rules would apply here.

321. A person seeking leave to enter the United Kingdom who holds an entry clearance which was duly issued to him and is still current may be refused leave to enter only where the Immigration Officer is satisfied that:

(ii) a change of circumstances since it was issued has removed the basis of the holder's claim to admission, except where the change of circumstances amounts solely to the person becoming over age for entry in one of the categories contained in paragraphs 296-316 of these Rules since the issue of the entry clearance

(My emphasis)

I suspect that the details of the sponsor and the basis on which the visa was issued would be available to the IO at port of entry, should they wish to see it.

It may be that she would be allowed straight through immigration with the minimum of delay and questioning, as most visitors are; but if she were questioned and the IO discovered that she was no longer in a relationship with her sponsor then she would be refused entry. If she were to lie about it and the IO discovered that she was lying, by telephoning her ex boyfriend for example, then she could be banned from visiting the UK for up to 10 years.

NB, topic title edited to include 'UK.'

Oops, I stand corrected, thanks.

[theoldgit]

If an angry ex-boyfriend has paid for a visa to be processed, is it possible that he may inform the immigration dept that he will no longer act as sponsor?

Yes indeed, in fact not necessarily an angry ex-boyfriend. If somebody has sponsored an applicant and the relationship is no more, it is in their own best interests to notify UK Visas of he fact. You have to remember that sponsors are recorded on a database as are applicants, if the ex-boyfriend decided to sponsor somebody else in the future questions might well be asked. UK Visas would more than likely not cancel the visa but she could have to satisfy the IO at the port of entry that she could keep herself and that she would return at the end of the visit, and as there had been a material change entry could very well be refused.

As 7by7 points out she would probably be waived through with few or any questions, IO's are sometimes instructed not to waste to much time on passengers with entry clearance as busy times.

Yes the details of the sponsor are available to the IO at the port of entry, there are plans to make these quickly available on-line but I am not sure if this has been fully implemented. Above each visa vignette there is a handwritten number, something like "3670/0" this refers to the case paper file in the visa section and would ensure that the details can be easily obtained.

[ThaiVisaExpress]

We had a client in exactly the same circumstances we processed the application however they finished the relationship, she travelled to the UK and got refused entry.

The applicant may try however we advised that under the change of circumstances she may get refused entry the applicant travels at her own risk.

[Thongkorn]

I would think that the visa was granted on the relevant details of the application and sponsoring letter, also the history of the relationship .IE where you intend to live , who will be supporting you and there financial situation, All applications are judged on there merit. If any part was changed then the visa was not granted on the relevant details.or criteria,

[7by7]

You have to remember that sponsors are recorded on a database as are applicants, if the ex-boyfriend decided to sponsor somebody else in the future questions might well be asked.

Indeed.

I remember that when we were at the embassy submitting my wife's settlement application (this was 9 years ago) a tearful Thai woman came out of the interview room and asked my wife if we could explain the refusal notice to her.

It basically said that she was applying as the fiance of Mr. X, but had not explained what had happened to Miss Y, who had been issued a visa as his fiance a few months previously!

[gregchambers]

So she should go back to the embassy and get them to cancel the visa and apply again?

[yeesipha]

So she should go back to the embassy and get them to cancel the visa and apply again?

If she wants to do everything by the book then yes that would be the way forward,

there again if that someone else and her want to take the chance then go for it but it could turn out to be an

expensive mistake with the cost of the ticket,and then theres the chance of being barred for 10 years as well wich

would <deleted> any future travel plans to the uk.

I remember when my then g/f now wife come to the uk on a tourist V V we travelled back to the uk together

and the IO grilled her to pieces,nearly bringing her to tears with all the questions,and re asking her the same

questions trying to trip her up,we made the mistake of going through the clearace channels seperatly,then when i

tried to politely intervene and help my now wife he started on me,questions like why have you been in thailand so long,were do you get all your money from,why you coming back to uk etc etc,at this time i was getting a little bit

naffed off with him,so i then had no choice but to pull out everything that i had included in my g/f visa application

from my hand luggage and place it in front of him,luckily he just stamped the visa andtold her to move on,

great i thought WELCOME home,that was at LHR.

[Kitsch22]

So she should go back to the embassy and get them to cancel the visa and apply again?

If she wants to do everything by the book then yes that would be the way forward,

there again if that someone else and her want to take the chance then go for it but it could turn out to be an

expensive mistake with the cost of the ticket,and then theres the chance of being barred for 10 years as well wich

would <deleted> any future travel plans to the uk.

I remember when my then g/f now wife come to the uk on a tourist V V we travelled back to the uk together

and the IO grilled her to pieces,nearly bringing her to tears with all the questions,and re asking her the same

questions trying to trip her up,we made the mistake of going through the clearace channels seperatly,then when i

tried to politely intervene and help my now wife he started on me,questions like why have you been in thailand so long,were do you get all your money from,why you coming back to uk etc etc,at this time i was getting a little bit

naffed off with him,so i then had no choice but to pull out everything that i had included in my g/f visa application

from my hand luggage and place it in front of him,luckily he just stamped the visa andtold her to move on,

great i thought WELCOME home,that was at LHR.

If you will pardon my saying so, I think that you paint a picture that is unduly dark.

If this girl turns up and presents at the UK airport accompanied by her new sponsor who stays with her all the time and if:

(1) the sponsor has with him adequate proof of his own financial and other status

(2) the girl has with her (but only for production upon request) paperwork equivalent to a full and satisfactory set of application papers including coverage of her new relationship and

(3) neither the girl nor the sponsor tells any lies nor makes any misleading statements but answers honestly and openly any questions that are put

Then in those circumstances the worst that could (improbably) happen is that she would be turned away. There would be no grounds for her to be barred. The strong likelihood is that she would get in. After all, she has a valid tourist visa.

[Will27]

If you will pardon my saying so, I think that you paint a picture that is unduly dark.

If this girl turns up and presents at the UK airport accompanied by her new sponsor who stays with her all the time and if:

(1) the sponsor has with him adequate proof of his own financial and other status

(2) the girl has with her (but only for production upon request) paperwork equivalent to a full and satisfactory set of application papers including coverage of her new relationship and

(3) neither the girl nor the sponsor tells any lies nor makes any misleading statements but answers honestly and openly any questions that are put

Then in those circumstances the worst that could (improbably) happen is that she would be turned away. There would be no grounds for her to be barred. The strong likelihood is that she would get in. After all, she has a valid tourist visa.

Sorry mate,

I think you're mistaken.

You say there are no grounds for her to be barred.

Well yes there are grounds for her to be barred (refused entry) as stated in the posts above.

In fact, IMHO, she has a much greater chance of being refused than being allowed to enter.

A couple of scenerio's. First sponsor advises Embassy that he no longer wishes to sponsor

her. The Embassy by all rights should cancel the visa due to the above mentioned grounds

"circumstances of visa grant have changed", and send a letter to the girl advising that her

visa has been cancelled. There would be no exclusion period however. If the girl arrived

at Bkk airport to depart, she would not be allowed due to having no visa.

Second scenerio. The original sponsor advises that he no longer supports girl and for

some reason, the Embassy does not cancel the visa. It SHOULD be noted on file that

TG no longer being supported. IO should see this on file when flight lands and I think

the chances of her being allowed to enter would be miniscule at best.

You say she has a "valid" visa. Well no, she had a valid reason with guy number

1, not number 2.

Regards

Will

[Eff1n2ret]

If you will pardon my saying so, I think that you paint a picture that is unduly dark.

If this girl turns up and presents at the UK airport accompanied by her new sponsor who stays with her all the time and if:

(1) the sponsor has with him adequate proof of his own financial and other status

(2) the girl has with her (but only for production upon request) paperwork equivalent to a full and satisfactory set of application papers including coverage of her new relationship and

(3) neither the girl nor the sponsor tells any lies nor makes any misleading statements but answers honestly and openly any questions that are put

Then in those circumstances the worst that could (improbably) happen is that she would be turned away. There would be no grounds for her to be barred. The strong likelihood is that she would get in. After all, she has a valid tourist visa.

If the former sponsor has notified his withdrawal of sponsorship, she will undoubtedly be refused entry, however immaculate her paperwork or apparently kosher the new sponsor.

If the former sponsor hasn't reported the change of circumstances, she may well succeed in gaining entry.

If she is refused entry only because of a change of circumstances, there shouldn't be any mention of a ban on future applications. If, however, some misrepresentation is alleged in the original application, or in the attempt to gain entry with a different sponsor,a ban would probably apply.

So she can take her chances. If she's got somebody to pay for her ticket, she hasn't got a lot to lose.

[learningcurve]

Last year I assisted a friend of my wife's to obtain a visitor visa. As the visa was issued, her b/f broke off the relationship. She had a new b/f and asked me if she could still use her visa to visit her new(!) b/f. Not giving any names I telephoned a contact in the Visa section and asked this ECO the question, her reply was that the visa would no longer be valid as her sponsor details had changed. The ECO said that the applicant should apply for a new visa with her new b/f. After passing on this information, the new b/f (in the UK) told his g/f to go ahead and use the visa. She arrived at Manchester Immigration, was asked a few questions about where she would be staying, b/f name etc. The Immigration Officer must have been suspicious of the way she answered the questions. The girl was then taken to an interview room where she was questioned again in more detail. She was then left alone for several hours whilst her story was checked out. End result, refused entry and returned to Thailand on the next available flight.

[Will27]

If you will pardon my saying so, I think that you paint a picture that is unduly dark.

If this girl turns up and presents at the UK airport accompanied by her new sponsor who stays with her all the time and if:

(1) the sponsor has with him adequate proof of his own financial and other status

(2) the girl has with her (but only for production upon request) paperwork equivalent to a full and satisfactory set of application papers including coverage of her new relationship and

(3) neither the girl nor the sponsor tells any lies nor makes any misleading statements but answers honestly and openly any questions that are put

Then in those circumstances the worst that could (improbably) happen is that she would be turned away. There would be no grounds for her to be barred. The strong likelihood is that she would get in. After all, she has a valid tourist visa.

If the former sponsor has notified his withdrawal of sponsorship, she will undoubtedly be refused entry, however immaculate her paperwork or apparently kosher the new sponsor.

If the former sponsor hasn't reported the change of circumstances, she may well succeed in gaining entry.

If she is refused entry only because of a change of circumstances, there shouldn't be any mention of a ban on future applications. If, however, some misrepresentation is alleged in the original application, or in the attempt to gain entry with a different sponsor,a ban would probably apply.

So she can take her chances. If she's got somebody to pay for her ticket, she hasn't got a lot to lose.

Agree with all you've said apart from the highlighted bit.

Apart from the fact that it's a long and arduous flight,

if her visa is cancelled she will be detained until they

can get her back to Thailand. She then will have to make

her way from Bkk to her home and may be short of funds.

And even though there will be no exclusion period, she

will be "placed" on the system due to the cancellation

which may make it harder for her to obtain another

visa.

Regards

Will

[gregchambers]

"

A couple of scenerio's. First sponsor advises Embassy that he no longer wishes to sponsor

her. The Embassy by all rights should cancel the visa due to the above mentioned grounds

"circumstances of visa grant have changed", and send a letter to the girl advising that her

visa has been cancelled. There would be no exclusion period however. If the girl arrived

at Bkk airport to depart, she would not be allowed due to having no visa.

Second scenerio. The original sponsor advises that he no longer supports girl and for

some reason, the Embassy does not cancel the visa. It SHOULD be noted on file that

TG no longer being supported. IO should see this on file when flight lands and I think

the chances of her being allowed to enter would be miniscule at best."

So according to the above, the airlines are plugged into the same database as the UK embassy and immigration - this seems unlikely to me and I doubt if the airlines are able to go beyond what is actually in the passport - ie a valid visa.

Then the question emerges does the immigration dept in the UK airport have access to the sponsor details at point of entry or do they have to actually check on a separate system, here I would suggest that they probably do and can check that data against what the visitor has written on her immigration card - so she would have to lie and put the old sponsor's details down and if she gets caught (if the visa has been cancelled) will be banned for ten years.

Of course, if she quickly reapplies for a new visa she will probably get turned down as it would be obvious she might well change men again once she got to the UK and do a disappearing act. I'd guess she would have to leave if for a year to establish the reality of the new relationship.

[paully]

(3) neither the girl nor the sponsor tells any lies nor makes any misleading statements but answers honestly and openly any questions that are put

Then in those circumstances the worst that could (improbably) happen is that she would be turned away. There would be no grounds for her to be barred. The strong likelihood is that she would get in. After all, she has a valid tourist visa.

But she will be making a misleading statement, in effect, by presenting herself without reporting the material change in her circumstances - that she has a new b/f and a new sponsor. She has a duty to report any changes, that's the point. A visa stamp does not give her an absolute right of entry under all circumstances.

[NALAK]

based on my own experience of going with missus every year to uk she will get stopped and if sponser no longer same as application probably get turned away, which will probably blot your copy book for any further relationships with a view to taking them back to the UK. i would inform forign office straight away or best option just send e mail to British Embassey in Bangkok and ask them the question.

[email protected]

[gregchambers]

that is another thing, the bkk embassy has a reputation for ignoring or not replying to emails or even faxes and does not have a working phone number - so there is fifty/fifty chance that even if the sponsor tried to inform them he would just be ignored!

[the scouser]

In "the old days" it might take the UK immigration officer anything up to 2 weeks to obtain the visa application form from the visa-issuing post, but modern technology now means that they have instant access. Consequently, if the IO at the UK airport were so inclined to check, he could easily establish that the person with whom the woman arrived was not the original sponsor. As others have commented, this would constitute a change in circs and result in refusal of entry.

Depending upon the circumstances as a whole, she might get a right of in-country appeal, or she might be limited to an appeal from abroad. However, whichever she were given, there would be little point pursuing it as the refusing IO would have solid grounds. Additionally, if she were to either misrepresent the new boyfriend as the original sponsor, or state that she would be visiting the old boyfriend knowing this not to be the case, this could be sufficient to justify an accusation of deception, which would then result in any visit visa application for 10 years being refused without consideration.

Scouse.

[7by7]

"

A couple of scenerio's. First sponsor advises Embassy that he no longer wishes to sponsor

her. The Embassy by all rights should cancel the visa due to the above mentioned grounds

"circumstances of visa grant have changed", and send a letter to the girl advising that her

visa has been cancelled. There would be no exclusion period however. If the girl arrived

at Bkk airport to depart, she would not be allowed due to having no visa.

Second scenerio. The original sponsor advises that he no longer supports girl and for

some reason, the Embassy does not cancel the visa. It SHOULD be noted on file that

TG no longer being supported. IO should see this on file when flight lands and I think

the chances of her being allowed to enter would be miniscule at best."

So according to the above, the airlines are plugged into the same database as the UK embassy and immigration - this seems unlikely to me and I doubt if the airlines are able to go beyond what is actually in the passport - ie a valid visa.

The airline at check in will not, as far as I'm aware, have access to any UKBA database. They will see what appears to be a valid visa and so board her. It's when she gets in front of an Immigration Officer (IO) at her UK port of entry that the potential problems may arise.

If she were to apply for a new visa with her new sponsor then that application will be judged on it's own merits. However, I suspect that any ECO is going to question her breaking up with one British sponsor and finding another one so quickly. That should be dealt with and explained in any application she may make.

[Kitsch22]

(3) neither the girl nor the sponsor tells any lies nor makes any misleading statements but answers honestly and openly any questions that are put

Then in those circumstances the worst that could (improbably) happen is that she would be turned away. There would be no grounds for her to be barred. The strong likelihood is that she would get in. After all, she has a valid tourist visa.

But she will be making a misleading statement, in effect, by presenting herself without reporting the material change in her circumstances - that she has a new b/f and a new sponsor. She has a duty to report any changes, that's the point. A visa stamp does not give her an absolute right of entry under all circumstances.

Presenting oneself is not a statement. Additionally I have tried quite hard but without success to find the rule requiring a visa-holder to "report any changes"; could you help me by identifying it, please?

[Kitsch22]

In "the old days" it might take the UK immigration officer anything up to 2 weeks to obtain the visa application form from the visa-issuing post, but modern technology now means that they have instant access. Consequently, if the IO at the UK airport were so inclined to check, he could easily establish that the person with whom the woman arrived was not the original sponsor. As others have commented, this would constitute a change in circs and result in refusal of entry.

Depending upon the circumstances as a whole, she might get a right of in-country appeal, or she might be limited to an appeal from abroad. However, whichever she were given, there would be little point pursuing it as the refusing IO would have solid grounds. Additionally, if she were to either misrepresent the new boyfriend as the original sponsor, or state that she would be visiting the old boyfriend knowing this not to be the case, this could be sufficient to justify an accusation of deception, which would then result in any visit visa application for 10 years being refused without consideration.

I am acutely aware that this is your territory and that you know your stuff but I remain surprised that your view is so strongly nergative. Could you please cite for me the rule whereby the holder of a valid visa who presents and tells no lies and answers truthfully every question put to her might be liable to a 10-year ban?

I agree with you that an IO might well validly refuse entry, but if the new sponsor could (by immediate production of comprehensive documentary evidence) demonstrate his soundness, what do you think might be the grounds for refusal, bearing in mind that the change(s) must be material and that we are talking about a tourist visa here and not a settlement visa?

[NALAK]

that is another thing, the bkk embassy has a reputation for ignoring or not replying to emails or even faxes and does not have a working phone number - so there is fifty/fifty chance that even if the sponsor tried to inform them he would just be ignored!

they can be slow but i have always got a reply, maybe contacting border agency would be better.

[url="http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/en/aboutus/enquiries/contactus"

[email protected]

they promise responce in 5 working days

Edited November 16, 2009 by NALAK

[7by7]

Kitsch,

I don't want to speak for Scouse, but as previously quoted, the immigration rules, Para321(ii) clearly states that a person can be refused entry if "a change of circumstances since it was issued has removed the basis of the holder's claim to admission."

As it appears that the visa was issued on the basis of a relationship that no longer exists, then Para321(ii) obviously applies.

You are correct that if a visa holder is questioned and answers all questions truthfully then they will not face a ban; even if they are refused entry. No one has said they would.

But if someone seeking entry lies when questioned or otherwise seeks to decieve, then they may very well be bannned from visiting the UK for up to 10 years.

[the scouser]

Having obtained the visa with boyfriend A as a sponsor, but then seeking entry at a UK airport to visit boyfriend B is a material change in circumstances and the visa's validity would then be withdrawn. She would then, legally speaking, require a new visa to enter the UK to visit boyfriend B and she wouldn't have one. Thai require a valid visa to visit the UK and in that situation can't seek leave to enter of the immigration officer at the UK airport, so providing evidence of B's ability to maintain and accommodate would be pointless. The relevant paragraph of the Immigration Rules that an IO can rely upon to refuse entry in such cirucmstances is 321 and is cited above.

If no attempt were made to either misrepresent the facts or conceal the change of circs to the IO, she may not be subjected to an accusation of deception, and thereby escape a 10-year "ban". However, that would depend precisely upon the circumstances of her arrival in the UK and what was said/not said to the IO; something that we don't know as this is all largely hypothetical.

Scouse.

[Kitsch22]

Kitsch,

I don't want to speak for Scouse, but as previously quoted, the immigration rules, Para321(ii) clearly states that a person can be refused entry if "a change of circumstances since it was issued has removed the basis of the holder's claim to admission."

As it appears that the visa was issued on the basis of a relationship that no longer exists, then Para321(ii) obviously applies.

Two points here:

Firstly a refusal of entry is a very different thing from a 10-year ban. I respectfully maintain the opinion that such a ban imposed on a person who had broken no rule nor done anything wrong would be unlikely to survive appeal/judicial review.

Secondly, if one adequate sponsor has been replaced by another adequate sponsor, then in what way is "the basis of the holder's claim to admission removed"?