Do We Lose Friends By Becoming Buddhists?

[camerata]

This and similar questions are asked on most Western-oriented Buddhist web forums. I just came across Ajahn Maha Boowa's answer back in 1974:

Q3 M1:

My being a Buddhist has caused my friends to talk about me. They say that at one time I used to be a person full of fun and high spirits, and that now I am the exact opposite. I have lost a lot of friends and even my wife misunderstands me and disagrees with me. How can I solve this problem?

A:

Being a Buddhist does not mean that one must be quiet or look solemn. If friends try to get you to go in a way which is unwholesome, and you are observing the moral precepts (sila) you should not follow them. You might lose your friends but you will not lose yourself. If you are satisfied that you have gone the way of wholesomeness, you should consider the Buddha as an example. He was a prince who had a large retinue and many friends. He renounced the world, gave up those friends, and went to dwell alone for many years. After he had attained Enlightenment, he was surrounded by friends and had many disciples who were arahants (pure ones), monks as well as nuns, laymen and laywomen, until the number of Buddhists was more than the population of the world.4

We all believe in the teachings of the Buddha, which unites the hearts and minds of all Buddhists. We therefore should not be afraid of having no friends.

We should think, first of all, that our friends do not yet understand us, and so they drift away and no longer associate with us. Our way of practice in the way of wholesomeness still remains, however. One should see this — and that there are still good people in the world! Good people eventually meet and become friends with other good people, and these good people will be our friends. If there are no good people in the world, and if there is nobody interested in associating with us, then we should associate with the Dhamma — with Buddho, Dhammo, and Sangho in our hearts, which is better than friends who are not interested in goodness at all. Buddho, Dhammo, and Sangho are friends which are truly excellent.

Ordinarily, those good friends of yours will come back to you. You should therefore rest assured that if your heart is satisfied that you are going in a wholesome direction, then that is enough. You should not be concerned with or worry about others more than yourself. You should be responsible for yourself in the present and in the future, for there is nobody but yourself who can raise you up to a higher level.

[ricwoo09]

By being a Budhist I became a much more likeable person, I help friends and others I meet and accept their thanks; if you're losing friends then maybe you're not being what a real Budhist should be...?

[Curt1591]

If you want friends to disappear, become a Christian!

[bina]

today i got yelled at by a non religious but believing jew (israeli) and by a muslem east jeruslaem arab both at the same time, for not believing in one god. this was in the visa section of the ministery of the interior and lots of different nationalities show up there in teh a.m so makes for lively discussions (since we are all there due to mixed marriage visa problems)... i got yelled at when they asked if anon had converted (to judaism); and i said i was budhist as was anon. but jewish by nationality heredity (genetics) and identification on my id card. these were just two guys with their non jewish/non muslem wives but obviously converting.

my real friends couldnt care less; newer friends or colleagues are often horrified because in israel relgioun and identity are so closely entwined. and buddhism smacks of pagan worship which is a fate worse then death here (literally, to them). and i ve had people physically move away from me when ive told them but that is also cause they associate budhist thais with eating non kosher meat (pigs and shrimp) so i must be 'bad' (sinner) and that is contagious. so much for the enlightened masses.

never mind, doesnt worry me ; it weeds out the seeds from the chaff, or whatever the metaphor is

bina

israel

[camerata]

By being a Budhist I became a much more likeable person, I help friends and others I meet and accept their thanks; if you're losing friends then maybe you're not being what a real Budhist should be...?

If you look at the question in my post rather than the title, it's really about becoming a more sober individual (because of following precepts, etc) and as a result having less in common with old friends than prior to becoming a Buddhist. Not drinking alcohol would be a major factor. Also, it's amazing how much so-called humour is actually sarcasm, putting people down, and other forms of Wrong Speech.

[zzaa09]

By being a Budhist I became a much more likeable person, I help friends and others I meet and accept their thanks; if you're losing friends then maybe you're not being what a real Budhist should be...?

If you look at the question in my post rather than the title, it's really about becoming a more sober individual (because of following precepts, etc) and as a result having less in common with old friends than prior to becoming a Buddhist. Not drinking alcohol would be a major factor. Also, it's amazing how much so-called humour is actually sarcasm, putting people down, and other forms of Wrong Speech.

Perhaps this sober and stoic {would be} character might be percepted from archetypal manifestations.

Edited November 17, 2009 by zzaa09

[Krungbin]

If you lose "Friends" by becoming Buddists....well, your "friends" are not your Friends!

[phetaroi]

By being a Budhist I became a much more likeable person, I help friends and others I meet and accept their thanks; if you're losing friends then maybe you're not being what a real Budhist should be...?

If you look at the question in my post rather than the title, it's really about becoming a more sober individual (because of following precepts, etc) and as a result having less in common with old friends than prior to becoming a Buddhist. Not drinking alcohol would be a major factor. Also, it's amazing how much so-called humour is actually sarcasm, putting people down, and other forms of Wrong Speech.

I think that becoming a more sober Buddhist sets you further away from (for example) more sober Christians. One of my dearest friends and colleagues back in the States is a born again Christian. We mostly solved discomfort in religious discussions by simply staying away from it. It wasn't a verboten subject, but there was a degree of respect and value of the friendship. Once I moved here after we both retired at almost the same time, there has been a distinct decline in the lines of communication, which is not necessary due to email. It is clear there are two factors, based on the few emails I have gotten -- the acknowledgment that (and this is a paraphrase, but the clear intent) "you really are serious about this Buddhism thing". The other is that here I am in a long term relationship that is not approved of...always "understood" in the past, but a sort of "I don't know what I don't know" attitude.

I don't necessarily agree that by following the precepts you are setting yourself further apart from your old friends. After all, other religions have precepts as well, and many are not that different. I'm 60 and haven't had a drink since I was 30, never smoked or did drugs. As to sex...well, let's not go down that road. I hung around people who were similar...but not because of their religious beliefs.

[fabianfred]

Other religions have precepts...but in all the number seriously try to keep them is a minority.

Like attracts like...so thieves are comfortable in the company of thieves.....dhamma practisioners in the company of fellows..

Buddha said that the most dangerous thing is keeping company with those of wrong view...

[hanno]

Most of my friends are Asian Buddhists and obviously never posed the question to themselves.

Maybe foreigners are taking themselves to seriously when becoming Buddhists (or pretty much anything else) and wonder about things they should not?

[josefbl]

If you lose "Friends" by becoming Buddists....well, your "friends" are not your Friends!

INDEED !!! My wife and I " became " Buddist whyle still in the Netherlands.Many of our friends where pleasantly,charmed ,surprised.But a couple thold us litterarely " we never ever speak to you again " and they never did any more ! Who are the friends ????

josef

[camerata]

The examples I was thinking of were from another web board with a younger crowd. Typically, what happens is Joe Hedonist is going to the pubs and discos, getting plastered with his mates every weekend (not to mention the one-night stands), but when he becomes a Buddhist he stops all that. But then what does he do? It's perhaps less of a problem for someone older with a family, but for someone in their 20s not living near a Buddhist community it's more difficult to find a new circle of friends.

I also came across a few married people who said that becoming a Buddhist and meditating resulted in them being less interested in sex, which caused problems for their marriage.

[Jonathanpattaya]

If you lose "Friends" by becoming Buddists....well, your "friends" are not your Friends!

You have hit the nail on the head.

Whatever you do in life, you will soon find out who your friends are.

[rockyysdt]

For a good friendship to exist there must be something in it for both of you.

Sharing common interests, experiences & goals, personal acceptance, genuine interest etc.

As your interests & needs change, friendships can either grow or wain.

Rather than being "how good" the friend was, perhaps it's been more, "how well" did they fulfill your need.

Gravitating to Buddhism and all this involves, will often mean major changes in your values & interests & impact on any friendship.

If friendship is important to you, then simply seek out those who share your new interests.

Edited November 18, 2009 by rockyysdt

[phetaroi]

Most of my friends are Asian Buddhists and obviously never posed the question to themselves.

Maybe foreigners are taking themselves to seriously when becoming Buddhists (or pretty much anything else) and wonder about things they should not?

I would not call adopting a life's religion (or if you wish, philosophy) should be taken lightly. Perhaps the Asian Buddhists, as you put it, are not taking it seriously enough because they were born into it.

My SO, a Thai, is a very moral person and considers himself to be a good Buddhist. He never goes to temple unless it's an event, never gives food to the monks...except on his birthday, etc. Again, he's an unusually good person, but laissez-faire (or is it fairly lazy) in regard his religion and seeking nirvanna. A little like Scarlett O'Hara -- I'll think about it tomorrah because after all, tomorrah is another day.

[zzaa09]

Most of my friends are Asian Buddhists and obviously never posed the question to themselves.

Maybe foreigners are taking themselves to seriously when becoming Buddhists (or pretty much anything else) and wonder about things they should not?

Too serious. More than likely, it's a Westerner's place and conditioning to view Buddhism as a 'religion', as they see it. Therefore imbibing such practices along a dogmatic stoicism nature, less a universal nature to simply what is. Nearly impossible to adopt a spirtual philosophy that instinctively contradicts from a cultural conditioning. Cynically, I might find such Farang that pursue such fancy nothing but fashion and trend.

[Ijustwannateach]

In the relatively limited sense in which I understand the practice of Buddhism, meditation leads to a more functional life. Misery loves company, and if one's former (and more dysfunctional) friends cannot move on, moving on from bad habits can be isolating.

After having thought a bit about Camerata's observations- that this is frequently related to bad behaviour on the part of younger people- that isn't what I have trouble with (too old to associate with party animals). It's the delusion which is so common among my older friends that is the problem.

[khaowong1]

By being a Budhist I became a much more likeable person, I help friends and others I meet and accept their thanks; if you're losing friends then maybe you're not being what a real Budhist should be...?

If you look at the question in my post rather than the title, it's really about becoming a more sober individual (because of following precepts, etc) and as a result having less in common with old friends than prior to becoming a Buddhist. Not drinking alcohol would be a major factor. Also, it's amazing how much so-called humour is actually sarcasm, putting people down, and other forms of Wrong Speech.

You are right on here Camerata. It happens to me all the time... I get the; one beer isn't going to kill you. And am always getting the distasteful jokes in my e-mail when I tell them to please refrain from sending to me.. I'm sorry about losing some people I've known for a very long time, but finding I really enjoy being with like minded, likable people.

[khaowong1]

Most of my friends are Asian Buddhists and obviously never posed the question to themselves.

Maybe foreigners are taking themselves to seriously when becoming Buddhists (or pretty much anything else) and wonder about things they should not?

I see this quite frequently... They seem to think if they get caught laughing, their doing something wrong. My abbot and I have a lot of fun together.. we laugh at things a lot. Especially the way people act. And he loves a really goofy movie, like Adam Sandler and American cartoons...