Engagement Money Before Leaving Thailand

[localmojo]

I currently live and work in America and my fiance just passed the fiance visa to come to america.

She seems very adamant about wanting us to now have an engagement ceremony in isaan and me give a big sum of money to her mom before she flies to america with me.Is this normal and how much is enough? Is the money given applied toward the sin sod which we would also do a wedding ceremony in her village after about a year?

Your ideas and thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks

[oldgeezer]

That is blatant nonsense. I have been married to a Thai for 25 years and never counsel against marrying a Thai. My wife agrees this is an unreasonable demand, and is an indicator of her poor judgement or intentions.

[stolidfeline]

That is blatant nonsense. I have been married to a Thai for 25 years and never counsel against marrying a Thai. My wife agrees this is an unreasonable demand, and is an indicator of her poor judgement or intentions.

RUN!!

[dr_Pat_Pong]

That is blatant nonsense. I have been married to a Thai for 25 years and never counsel against marrying a Thai. My wife agrees this is an unreasonable demand, and is an indicator of her poor judgement or intentions.

RUN!!

and as fast as you can. CON ALERT.

[TheWalkingMan]

localmojo,

Have you lost your mojo? Get your mojo back and do not be a stupid mofo. The engagement ceremony sounds reasonable, but the handing over of cash puts it in the category of a scam. Sad to say it, but you might need to re-evaluate your fiance.

Good luck,

TheWalkingMan

[PNGinBKK]

Run, Forrest, Run!!!!

[rfukata]

first congrats for your fiancee visa & wedding plans.

I am also married to a Issan women and have 2 children.

here is my take on this subject. the engagement money or dowry is normally considered in Thai marriages, however,

I found this practice un-necessary for many reasons. If you do give money, you'll still end up spending or giving more

money down the road which will annoy you. Keep your money in the bank.

(i.e. example of real Japan dowry: the man pays a dowry to the woman, (lets say $10,000), however, the woman's family will

inturn return the $10K to you & wife in another way such as buying you furniture, car, or something helpful)

[j0hnga1t]

Localmojo,

Congrats!!! My fiancee (Isaan also) is coming to the US on Jan 8th. She wasn't adamant BUT when I suggested that we have an engagement party in Bangkok so we can show pictures to USCIS, she suggested that I give her parents 50,000 baht as a down payment on the sin sod. After much discussion, we didn't have a buddhist ceremony because they said they only do that at weddings and not engagements. It basically got too confusing so we just had a dinner and did a little ceremony with her parents. When we finally have a wedding in Thailand (after she gets her temp green card), I'll have to cough up the rest. (150,000 baht from me, and my future wife will cough up 100,000 baht). I'm Chinese and travelled around the world, so I learned to respect different cultures. Also I understand that I will be taking on the responsibility of taking care of her parents...such is life. The same could happen here if I married an American. Being raised asian helps though...

GOOD LUCK!!! And do what you feel is right, but remember there will always be critics out there no matter what you chose.

[kandahar]

Man, I feel for you. I'm sure you're fond of her or you wouldn't be considering her as a wife. However, ......

I can tell you this. There are good women in this country that won't ask you for a dime (Baht). My Thai wife has never asked me for money. Together, we have financial responsibilities and we meet them. Her family does get into financial difficulties sometimes and we have helped a bit in the past and probably will in the future. My family in the U.S. needs help from time to time as well and we help them. From both sides of the pond, the money gets paid back; it isn't a gift.

My wife is a lot tighter with money than I will ever be. She says we have what we have and it is ours to manage and when we spend it, it becomes someone else's to manage. She's right. There is a good woman out there that will take care of you and what is yours. From your post, I would guess you have one that is wanting to take care of your money. Sad, but I personally know quite a few guys that have run into that and found out the hard way that they didn't have what they thought they had. Some of them spent several years with the wrong, cunning woman before they figured it out. Of course, the same thing has happened with guys that married U.S. women.

Engagement parties and weddings- My wife knew I wasn't an endless bucket of money from the beginning. She arranged a small engagement party and shortly after that, a small wedding party. Together, the events didn't cost us more than a few hundred dollars and half of that was her money, not mine.

Your woman needs to be as conservative as you are and if she's a good girl, she will be even more conservative than you are.

As for her parents, you would probably be expected to help her take care of them. But handing off a lump sum to them for the privilege of marrying the girl is not acceptable to good Thai parents. Generally speaking, Thai people seem to be much more interested in taking care of the folks that brought them into this world than U.S. folks are. I can see your wife wanting to take care of their daily needs as they become unable to provide for themselves. Your woman's responsibility is a part of your responsibility, within reason. My wife's parents live with us. They are too old to work for a living. I don't mind one bit buying the food that they need. I buy other things for them just to see them smile. The father-in-law can't do anything. He worked his butt off most of his life and he is spent. The mother-in-law can't get around too well but she spends her days tending the yard and garden, no matter how much I encourage her to just sit back and enjoy her life. She is a force that can't be stopped. Neither of my in-laws have ever asked for anything. They get upset if I spend too much on them. They are more concerned for my future than for their future.

I asked my wife about your predicament. She felt pity for you. Her advice is to find a good girl and not spend any more effort on this one. She says this one is finally showing you what she is really about. FYI- my wife won't allow me to set up any of my U.S. friends with her friends because, she says, most of her friends are really looking for a wallet, not a life-partner. My wife was forty two when I met her, had never been married or seriously dated anyone. She had pursued her career in the business world until she reached the pinnacle of that pursuit. When she achieved what she had set out to achieve, she became receptive to adding someone to share her life. That lucky dude was me.

Find a woman that is financially responsible with her money and yours. If money is off the table, all that is left is good living every day. There are a lot of Thai women out there who are educated, very involved in the business world and starting to look around for the right person to settle down with. My wife MAKES me do all of the banking and updating of the passbooks because she wants me to always know what money went where. She says many Thai women hide these things from their falang husbands for good reason. I know one Thai woman that writes all expenditures in a journal and her husband can read it any time he wants but he isn’t allowed to see the bankbooks. She has a very bad reason for doing this. If he ever discovers how much she has spent on jewelry and other crap, he’ll fall over dead. Her journal is just for keeping him in the dark.

Best of luck. Sorry to know you're going through this.

[jimmym40]

You decided to marry a Thai national. Good for you. I love the Thai people and their culture.

The idea of us Westerners paying a sin sod is odd. However, it is part of the Thai culture and I see nothing wrong with it. If you have the means/funds to do so, the amount is entirely up to you. If you do give the parents a bit of money now, just give it in good faith, saying "don't worry about your daughter, I will take good care of her". Tell them you'll pay a sin sod upon the marriage ceremony in Thailand, and that sum is whatever you feel comfortable with. I'm 60 yrs old, been married for over 25 yrs and seen and heard of all sums of sin sod paid. 200,000 baht is certainly reasonable. Take it from there.

Good luck and hope she adapts well to her new life.

[gotlost]

You may pay sin sod for marriage but DO NOT PAY SIN SOD FOR ENGAGEMENT, its a scam dump her.

[Nio]

First of all since you already are engaged and have a fiance visa it is too late to talk any sense into you, but that is the good thing about life. We all learn our lessons in different ways.

Isaan women are never adamant about anything and a pushy Isaan woman that is not happy just to have you, that should have been a red flag right from the beginning.

Either that or she was working some where she should not have been and learned this behavior because I have never seen an Isaan woman that would push her BF, fiance for anything if she was in fact a good woman.

Engagement ceremony should just involve friends and family and a nice dinner party. No money exchanges hands here because you are not marrying her.

There is no such thing as a down payment on sin sod. This girl is actually putting more value on her parents getting money from you than she is of you, so be dam_n careful.

One thing about sin sod if you are marrying a good girl with a good family is that the sin sod is a gesture of good will so the parents can tell everyone wow my daughter was worth so and so and make a big deal about it to their friends.

The parents should return the sin sod amount to you and your wife to use for you to start your new life together.

If the parents or your future wife want them to keep and spend the sin sod, you are nothing more than a walking ATM and marriage or not your days will be numbered.

The simple fact that you do not live or work in Thailand tells me that you are not wise to the ways of Thailand and this spells big trouble.

If you misunderestimated this girl you will know for sure when you get her to the USA and she thinks you have unlimited income to spend spend spend on her or send money back constantly to her parents.

If she starts this behavior put her on a plane back asap and find a good girl.

I think it is a proven fact the girls hellbent on money do not make good partners and before you learn an expensive lesson pay attention to her behavior and see if it is all focused around your money.

[pjclark1]

The first rule of Thailand, never hand over or spend an money that you can't afford to lose.

The second rule of Thailand, the more money you give them, the more money they want.

Money on engagement sounds like a scam for sure, I have never heard of that one before. They might just be trying to find out how big a buffalo you really are.

Money for the family

It is the youngest daughters responsibility to finance the parents (does she have a younger sister?). In Issan living is very cheap, my future MIA spends 1000bht a month on her accommodation and about the same in food and running costs. If I were to support her (which I don't as my gf has a younger sister), she would be getting a maximum of 2000bht a month.

You need to understand reasonable support levels for a Thai, before you get conned big time.

[neverdie]

Mmmmmm, I'm a little suspicious about this thread, not just the idea of engagement sin son

[esbkk]

That is blatant nonsense. I have been married to a Thai for 25 years and never counsel against marrying a Thai. My wife agrees this is an unreasonable demand, and is an indicator of her poor judgement or intentions.

RUN!!

and as fast as you can. CON ALERT.

RUN, and as fast as you can, and never ever look back!

[Just1Voice]

My wife is a very proud northern Lanna Thai from Chiang Mai. We met 4 years ago when I came here on vacation. At 46 (at the time) she was as beautiful and sexy as any 26 yr old, and it was pretty much "love at first sight" for us both. When we first met it was difficult for us to spend any time together because she was the manager of the Customer Service venue of the hotel I was staying at, and they have very strict rules about employees dating guests. But we managed to have lunch a few times, and then remained in contact when I went back to the states. Long story short, we have now been married for almost 2 years, and I seriously doubt if I could find a better woman in all of Thailand.

She was married at 22, divorced at 27, and since then she has worked hard to provide a good life, and the best education possible for her son. She has owned 2 very successful restaurants, which she later sold for nice profits, and is one of the most respected Advanced Thai Massages instructors around.

From the very start she stated that I should take care of all the finances, and goes along with me on whatever I say we can or can't afford. She is forever grateful for the things she has, and doesn't hesitate to tell anyone and everyone what a good husband she has, and how wonderful her life is. While I'm not "rich" and receive a full military disability pension, as well as social security, we have a beautiful home where her family is always welcome. Her parents have both passed away, but she has 1 older brother, 1 older sister, and 1 younger sister. She made it clear to all of them that they are always welcome, but they are to call before they come, and while we have no problem helping them financially from time to time when they really need it, we're not a charity or an ATM.

When I told her about your situation, she laughed and said "Bar Girl!". You have to know my wife to know that she doesn't necessarily mean your fiance was a bar girl, but that she has the bar girl mentality, and her advice is to dump her and find another, and that there are plenty of good Issan girls that would make a good wife for you, and not look at you as an ATM, which is what she thinks your current one is doing. She said to tell you to tell your current g/f that you will not pay anything now, but will pay the sin sod upon marriage. She said if your g/f get's mad or upset about this, she loves your wallet and not you, and that you are better off learning the truth now instead of later.

[localmojo]

I've lived in Thailand and had my fun for more than 4 years (learned thai language well, been thru the

thai learning curve) and am now back in america working. I'm 43 and been in many relationships, so I can

smell BS. I'm her first boyfriend. My fiance is the youngest daughter (so jai rawn at times) and is a bachelors graduate of Ramkamhaeng University and

works as an office manager, so not a bargirl. As a show of face and for honoring their culture before

her leaving the country I don't see it as unreasonable to show respect to the family with an offering

that would be a down payment toward the sin sod. I'm not way off base here, am I ?

[kanderson]

How much pre sin sote does she want?

I've been married to my Surin Queen for nearly 10 years. She still seems to try and shake me down - now and then.

Things change - as we have 2 kids now. I guess everything I have is hers and my kids - so I don't worry too much when we fight.

They really do want some Sin Sote - it makes everyone laugh and happy. I'd go for one thousand dollars as top end - unless they know you have too much.

[gburns57au]

I've lived in Thailand and had my fun for more than 4 years (learned thai language well, been thru the

thai learning curve) and am now back in america working. I'm 43 and been in many relationships, so I can

smell BS. I'm her first boyfriend. My fiance is the youngest daughter (so jai rawn at times) and is a bachelors graduate of Ramkamhaeng University and

works as an office manager, so not a bargirl. As a show of face and for honoring their culture before

her leaving the country I don't see it as unreasonable to show respect to the family with an offering

that would be a down payment toward the sin sod. I'm not way off base here, am I ?

What you do is up to you.....

The only thing I will say is to make sure you and she understand fully what the situation is going to be....part of the sin sod or additional sin sod

[bob6023]

Sounds like you may be in way over your head partner.

[Mossfinn]

Shouldn't this be in General with all the other quality threads?

[spongeman]

Guys these days, no testicular fortitude.

[moe666]

AS that other thread says Thailand an't cheap.

[spongeman]

AS that other thread says Thailand an't cheap.

You are right my friend.

With this recession the Burds need to see 6 months of bank statements as well.

[TerryLH]

"...that would be a down payment toward the sin sod. I'm not way off base here, am I ?"

No you're not.

The way my wife explained it to me...

Anything given for engagement is part of the Sin Sod. It is not necessary to pay anything then. She told me that if it is, it's up to negotiation as to how much. She says usually 25-50% is what is agreed on. Again, it's not necessary to pay anything then if you don't want to.

She tells me that it's not as common now as it used to be. Sin Sod is also not as popular, and often nothing is given in these modern times. She told me that that would depend on what the local policies were.

Thais do things a bit different then we do. For instance, in the past, a boy might arrange to marry a girl, have an engagement party/dinner, then leave for many months to go to work to make some money. In those days there was some money given to the parents. If the boy didn't return, for whatever reason, the money was kept. If he returned, it was part of the Sin Sod.

This subject seems to raise everyones temperature. Take a look at most of the positive comments posted above. Many of them are from folks who have been married for awhile. 20+ years for me.

You know your gf better than all the posters above advising you to run. Read some of their other posts. Lots of negativity.

Good luck.

[ozsamurai]

TAKE our advise and RUN, as fast as you can out of this

[7by7]

As this is not really an immigration matter, and seems to have run it's course with some conflicting advice (and some silly comments) time to close it, I think.