Us Blacklists Thailand Over Child, Forced Labour

[phetaroi]

Okay, fair enuf, no rants on the USA and their politics, which seems to be everyones first response. Theres no denying that child labour exists & thailand should do their best to rid this practice. Western countries need to take responsibility for their part in this, theres always a blood trail that leads back to the all so wholesome nations who have been exploiting 3rd world (Develping nations) since the start of time.

Now you've really gone and done it! You've posted something I agree with! Spoil sport!

[phetaroi]

What is being discussed on this thread is rampant use of children in sweat shops , not children helping at home...

Yes, many here are trying to adjust the reality of what the problem is. They're trying to compare (for example) a newspaper route after school with working ten hours a day in inhuman conditions in a sweat shop environment.

Children ought to be children, and children ought to be in school learning so as to improve their future.

I often hear people in this group complain about things they experience in Thailand and how improving things may be a slippery slope. Well, perhaps those people ought to read articles about children fighting wars in some countries. That's just a slippery slope away from child labor.

Additionally, what is child labor all about here in Thailand? It's just about a factory owner (or such) making more money. Is there a shortage of adult laborers in Thailand? Even if you think so because of the low official unemployment rate in Thailand, what is not calculated into that is that the "underemployment rate" (people who work only a few hours per week) is not included in those figures.

Those here who are defending child labor are doing so for selfish reasons. They want children to work at cheap wages so they (the poster) can continue to live a better lifestyle which is based on improving their purchasing power due to cheap goods.

[phetaroi]

As regarding the internal affairs of Thailand, including child labour, this has nothing to do with the United States.

Sorry but there is no other direction this thread can go, it concerns the USA and their holier than thou ultra righteous bullying tactic policies of a small country such as Thailand, when it`s not required or wanted.

I am sure that forced child slave labour is wide spread all over the United States, therefore the Yanks are in no position to preach the rights and wrongs to Thailand and should first settle the problem at their own front door.

You're right to an extent -- the internal affairs of Thailand has nothing to do with the United States. But when Thailand is attempting to export its products to the United States, the U.S. has a right to put conditions on that. Just as Thailand has a right to say, "Okay, we don't accept your conditions, so we'll sell elsewhere."

Having worked in public education for a lifetime in New York, Maryland, and Virginia, I'd like to see evidence of "widespread" (as you put it) forced child labor. In all three of those states we saw rare instances of child labor and it was always tackled by the authorities.

What we are talking about here is described very well in this paragraph: "According to the International Labor Organization (ILO), there were some 211 million children ages 5 to 14 years who were economically active in the world in 2000. Boys and girls work at similar rates, and an estimated 73 million working children are less than 10 years old. Some of these children work for a few hours a day, alongside their parents in family businesses, or perform light work that is not considered to be exploitative. Others, however, work under deplorable and abusive conditions, with little or no pay, and without the opportunity to go to school. They work on farms with pesticides and machetes, on the streets as child prostitutes, as child soldiers, in mines, as domestic servants, garbage dumps and brothels in situations that threaten their health, safety, and morals in forms of child labor recognized by the world community to be the "worst forms.""

The International Labor Organization defines what kind of work should be prohibited for children:

"Considerable differences exist between the many kinds of work children do. Some are difficult and demanding, others are more hazardous and even morally reprehensible. Children carry out a very wide range of tasks and activities when they work. <h2 class="red">Defining child labour</h2> Not all work done by children should be classified as child labour that is to be targeted for elimination. Children’s or adolescents’ participation in work that does not affect their health and personal development or interfere with their schooling, is generally regarded as being something positive. This includes activities such as helping their parents around the home, assisting in a family business or earning pocket money outside school hours and during school holidays. These kinds of activities contribute to children’s development and to the welfare of their families; they provide them with skills and experience, and help to prepare them to be productive members of society during their adult life.

The term “child labour” is often defined as work that deprives children of their childhood, their potential and their dignity, and that is harmful to physical and mental development.

It refers to work that:

• is mentally, physically, socially or morally dangerous and harmful to children; and
  
• interferes with their schooling by:
  
• depriving them of the opportunity to attend school;
  
• obliging them to leave school prematurely; or
  
• requiring them to attempt to combine school attendance with excessively long and heavy work.
  

In its most extreme forms, child labour involves children being enslaved, separated from their families, exposed to serious hazards and illnesses and/or left to fend for themselves on the streets of large cities – often at a very early age. Whether or not particular forms of “work” can be called “child labour” depends on the child’s age, the type and hours of work performed, the conditions under which it is performed and the objectives pursued by individual countries. The answer varies from country to country, as well as among sectors within countries."

I am assuming Thailand is one of the 173 nations that have signed the treaty regarding child labor. The question is it just a paper or is the situation being worked on?

[mogoso]

The U.S. is fighting to safe their economy, trade deficit. Look at the dollar, gold price, oil price. Best, by building wall preventing easy access of imports from emerging countries. Anti dumping coudl help some, but child labour is hard-to-disputed reason of protetionism. Countries with balanced trade (profitable to U.S.) may only be put on watch-list.

Bunch of hypocrites the US, insofar as child labor used in foreign developing countries. Why is there a summer vacation from school? as the US was mainly an agriculture society, children were needed to help the family in the fields to raise the crops, ie the planting growing and after school started the harvest. It was necessary for survival. Ain't nothing easy about farm work.

I don't believe utilizing kids in sweat shops, but their ain't nothing wrong with helping in the family's business.

By nine I was selling the Evening Independent in front of the Sears store daily after school and on weekends, had to give it up as my lawn mowing customers kept me too busy, and I dang sure had to do my home chores and school work. At twelve I added night work as a batboy for the local minor league team $5 per game $7.50 for double header. Not bad money in 1961-62

The point is a little work will motivate ya

[nakachalet]

What is it that makes government in the West think they can impose their own morality as to when a person should be working and earning money? I am sure they would be more proud if the kids was out stealing, starving and/or abusing drugs and dying at a young age. You know, the LA way...

One of the most significant failures regarding this 'protect the children' hysteria is that it has missed the point ('save the children'), as seen when factory-owners in India and Nepal got caught up in boycott-calls, their western customers imposing trade-rules and the companies then summarily dismissed all underage (by western standard) workers, leaving them to poverty.

Even UNICEF write of the plight caused in Bangladesh after the Child Labor Deterrence Act was introduced in the US, an estimated 50,000 children were dismissed from their garment industry jobs, leaving many to resort to jobs such as "stone-crushing, street hustling, and prostitution", jobs that are "more hazardous and exploitative than garment production". The study suggests that boycotts are "blunt instruments with long-term consequences, that can actually harm rather than help the children involved."

( http://www.unicef.org/sowc97/report/ )

I agree with you. It's simply not possible for one country to apply it's value system to others.

Just as it's not possible to bring political systems from your own country to others that have a different culture / dynamic.

Unfortunately this is what the British Empire tried to do, and now the "US Empire" is revisiting the sins of it's parents.

How about just putting them in school and teaching them a few things that might keep them out of the workplace where they are easily intimidated and off the streets where they find trouble?

--------

i second your motion--appropriating some more money for the purpose of educating younger kids to become more employable, is the best solution to resolve proverty problems of so many southeast asia countries....

dkstoney, scrat, TAWP.... do you guys want to ring them up, or should i?....

well.... perhaps, it would be just easier for everyone, if we can just complain day in and day out, day after day.... i am sure one day they will wake up and hear us loud and clear.... right?....lol

Edited November 28, 2009 by nakachalet

[ianh68]

What is it that makes government in the West think they can impose their own morality as to when a person should be working and earning money?

I agree with you. It's simply not possible for one country to apply it's value system to others.

Just as it's not possible to bring political systems from your own country to others that have a different culture / dynamic.

Unfortunately this is what the British Empire tried to do, and now the "US Empire" is revisiting the sins of it's parents.

Universal Declaration of Human Rights. International Labour Organisation. Do these words mean nothing?

[nakachalet]

.... By nine I was selling the Evening Independent in front of the Sears store daily after school and on weekends, had to give it up as my lawn mowing customers kept me too busy, and I dang sure had to do my home chores and school work. At twelve I added night work as a batboy for the local minor league team $5 per game $7.50 for double header. Not bad money in 1961-62

The point is a little work will motivate ya

-------

mogoso

wait a minute, sir....

how come i only got paid 0.65 usd (65 cents) per hour in 1964...? i almost broke my back each day, hauling quarter inch thick plywood up to the roof.... and under hot blazing michigan summer sun....

to get paid 5 usd per game and 7.50 usd for double header.... that was obviously obscene, sir ....

that was almost like insider trading sir.... that practice should be outlawed sir.... lol

you lucky dog.... if i only knew then.... i would have gladly be your financial manager, or at the very least joined you.... ha ha ha....

but then by 1999, some thirty five years later, my pecuniary compensation was six figures per month....

best of all..... nowadays, i do not need to break my back any longer... i now only need to break several pencils a night ... lol

poking and electrifying my brain every night to challenge the best brains in the world and the smartest bunch of individuals and entities.... in the wide open almost limitless and boundless arena of electronic trading .... lol

Edited November 28, 2009 by nakachalet

[geriatrickid]

It is, Neverdie, but let's not go into discussions about the US being the big bad police man of the world, being morally corrupt etc.

OK than; let’s put it another way:

As regarding the internal affairs of Thailand, including child labour, this has nothing to do with the United States.

Sorry but there is no other direction this thread can go, it concerns the USA and their holier than thou ultra righteous bullying tactic policies of a small country such as Thailand, when it`s not required or wanted.

I am sure that forced child slave labour is wide spread all over the United States, therefore the Yanks are in no position to preach the rights and wrongs to Thailand and should first settle the problem at their own front door.

Why don't you condemn the EU then, since the EU and the Scandanavian bloc have similar regulations in place and have asked the US government for many years to support the initiative. If you want to condemn the USA, then please start with countries like Norway, Sweden and the UK where the movement to stop child labor was nurtured. It is an honorable initiative.

How is it righteous bullying when the US government listens to a coalition that crossed all political lines and that was heavily supported by groups heavily involved in providing aid and protecting the rights of children? If you want to condemn the USA, then please also condemn the Church of England, the Vatican, the ILO, Oxfam, Save the Children, and many other reputable organizations and groups that pushed for this.

In response to those that are trying to pass this off as the result of lobbying by shrimp farmers in the US gulf states, how about being fair? Those farmers said that they would like a level playing field. If they are obliged to respect child labor rules, and to follow rules that regulate the use of chemicals and additives into the food supply etc., it is only fair that other suppliers be obliged to follow similar rules. It is unfair to demand of one group to follow certain basic laws that render them uncompetitive, and to say, no problem to other suppliers that rely on unfair trade practices to cut costs. Sorry, but I applaud the commercial interests that supported this because it protects the minimum wage workers in the US from losing their jobs to children paid a few satangs. Why should companies like the GAP be obliged to follow onerous and expensive clothing source regulations, but its competitors not have to follow the same regulations? No one is forcing Thailand to sell into the US market. If a Thai or other nation's supplier do not agree with the regulations, they have a simple solution: Don't sell into the US market. Where does it say, American consumers that do not want to purchase child slave labor products have to purchase the products? Many consumers do not want these products. It is you that are self righteous in trying to force honest, decent people to accept such tainted products.

And again, this is not about children working. It is about forced child labour in dangerous environments. The process that the USA has supported does not preclude after school or part time work. What it is trying to mitigate is a situation where a 7 year old is locked into a fire trap building forced to sew, or a child that is chained to a fish processing table and forced to shuck shellfish for 10 hours in a dark room with no air. If you have any sense of decency and humanity, you cannot argue against this initiative. I am glad that the USA joined other countries in trying to make the world a better place, If people want to spit venom because of that moral decency, go right ahead. Those of us that know right from wrong are not going to change our views.

If you can't handle this initiative then go show your support for child labor and seek out products made by little kids. Maybe some entrepreneur can start a clothing label that features a crippled child on a tag so that you know you are getting your money's worth. Maybe a carrefour or Tesco in your locale can set up a banner over some of the shrimp products that proudly announces that the shrimp were prepared by 6 year olds beaten for not making their quota. I'm sure that would boost sales.

[junglist]

As I was driving to work today I say a young boy no older then twelve working on a new home at the end of my street. Child labor is all over the place here you just have to look. Oh I also forgot to mention he was smoke a cigarette also.

When I was in China I didn’t see any child labor and we were out in the manufacturing section. But I must admit I really was not looking for it.

[nakachalet]

As I was driving to work today I say a young boy no older then twelve working on a new home at the end of my street. Child labor is all over the place here you just have to look. Oh I also forgot to mention he was smoke a cigarette also.

When I was in China I didn’t see any child labor and we were out in the manufacturing section. But I must admit I really was not looking for it.

junglist

yes, there are plenty, accessible only to chinese.....

been to china on numerous occasions and when i put on some makeup.... not even a chinese lady can tell the difference.... lol

my next trip.... around may 2010, interested?

[slapout]

Child/forced labor as referenced by the consumer countries probably is not aimed at the children helping on the farm or the family lively hood, noodle shop, etc. I have observed a 14 year old sold to be used as a sex toy, children (under 10 years of age) who were hired out to weave carpets, while suspended by rope harnesses, products turned out by prison inmates , etc for the international market place. The spirit of the blacklist is probably aimed at the latter cases. The results of the blacklist expected, are usually in a economic sense with no moral change anticipated. We as individuals have probably put restrictions on our own purchases/activities based on a similar type of reasoning at some time in our life. I doubt that a economic blacklist will stop child/forced labor from happening but if it makes a positive impact toward reducing the same it may be the first step in righting a wrong. The people who refute the western world for the blacklists, and other methods proposed by them, may be the same people who would keep the masses under educated and women pregnant in the summer and barefoot in the winter.

[xminator]

Lets get some facts on the table:

Thailand ratified (is listed as Accession, and should be a synonym, the definition is they are "bound" by the treaty) the Convention on the Rights of the Child in 1992 along with about every UN member except Somalia. http://treaties.un.org/Pages/ViewDetails.a...r=4〈=en

The whole treaty can be found here: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/UN_Conventio...ts_of_the_Child

Article 32

1.States Parties recognize the right of the child to be protected from economic exploitation and from performing any work that is likely to be hazardous or to interfere with the child's education, or to be harmful to the child's health or physical, mental, spiritual, moral or social development.

2.States Parties shall take legislative, administrative, social and educational measures to ensure the implementation of the present article. To this end, and having regard to the relevant provisions of other international instruments, States Parties shall in particular: (a) Provide for a minimum age or minimum ages for admission to employment;

1.Provide for appropriate regulation of the hours and conditions of employment;

2.Provide for appropriate penalties or other sanctions to ensure the effective enforcement of the present article.

So this is not some US "imposing its views on the world", its part of international law that Thailand have ratified. Its not something new and revolutionary that some countries visit other countries checking the way things are produced for export. Russia is for example sending inspectors to norwegian sea farms and rutinely blocks a large portion of them from export to russia (with following cries of corruption), and the EU recently proposed blocking norwegian meat export because ONE inspector found ONE sick animal at ONE farm (not that anyone in the EU would import norwegian meat because of high prices...)

So a crackdown is called for, but instead we see a lot of washing hands and blaming 3rd parties.

[Bagwan]

sasseinei , the centre of the slave trading was actualy in my home town , Bristol England , which at that time was quite close to being the centre of the world shipping industry "Brittania ruled the waves " . I only found that out in recent years .

The UK and many other countries, notably Portugal, were involved in slave trading aided, I must point, out by not a few Africans. Cheap labour was required in the Americas and Africa had a almost inexhaustible supply. The UK also brought better educated peoples from the sub-continent to act as clerks and sometimes overseers.

To its credit the UK also stopped the slave trade as from 1802 and persuaded, with a little muscle from the Royal Navy, that other European countries did likewise.

The 13th Amendment banning slavery under the American Constitution was enacted ion 1863. Nobody could think that those of African descent got a fair shake after that date.

What is so conveniently forgotten is that slavery was endemic to Africa and practiced by many tribes. The Arabs were heavily involved in slavery for centuries, long before Europeans arrived in Africa.

[dustybooky]

What is it that makes government in the West think they can impose their own morality as to when a person should be working and earning money? I am sure they would be more proud if the kids was out stealing, starving and/or abusing drugs and dying at a young age. You know, the LA way...

Because they know that in many respects their hypocritical bull still flies.

People don't really question statements coming from guys like Cheney who said that the % of China's increase in defense spending grew by leaps and bounds. What he failed to mention was that the US spends as much as the other 179 countries of the world combined.

The US can pass all the anti-smoking, clean air, clean living etc. legislation it wants but when its trade negotiators and its more skillful bulls*%t senators apply pressure to developing area countries to "accept" American tobacco products (or other US banned toxic products) in their own countries it's nothing more than more hypocrisy when in reality it's: our lives (and living quality) are more important than yours.

Personally, I think the rest of the world should tell the Washington-based noise machines to shut the f@#K up when it comes to democracy. The US has nothing to brag about in that respect at least since November 2000.

[klikster]

What is it that makes government in the West think they can impose their own morality as to when a person should be working and earning money?

Your statement wold be more in context if you had added ".. and selling those products in US markets."

But I think you realize that your rant would fizzle had you added anything like that.

You actually seem to imply that products produced by child labor should indeed be allowed to be sold in the US. So who is imposing their own values on whom?

[TAWP]

What is it that makes government in the West think they can impose their own morality as to when a person should be working and earning money?

Your statement wold be more in context if you had added ".. and selling those products in US markets."

But I think you realize that your rant would fizzle had you added anything like that.

You actually seem to imply that products produced by child labor should indeed be allowed to be sold in the US. So who is imposing their own values on whom?

Hm? First of all, yes, I believe that trade-barriers should be teared down globally and merchandise that people want to purchase should be allowed to be sold. And the customers should be allowed to have enough info at hand regarding the products to make an educated decision on what to buy in accordance to their own belief and values. I'm weird that way, believing in freedom and the right of man to make decisions regarding themselves. I am sure that is chocking to you.

Secondly, the fact of the matter is that when organizations as the UNICEF even themselves say that they way countries and organizations go about forcing kids and teenagers out of the workforce is often counter-productive, one has to be a realist and come up with approaches that actually help these kids and their families.

[way2muchcoffee]

What is it that makes government in the West think they can impose their own morality as to when a person should be working and earning money?

Your statement wold be more in context if you had added ".. and selling those products in US markets."

But I think you realize that your rant would fizzle had you added anything like that.

You actually seem to imply that products produced by child labor should indeed be allowed to be sold in the US. So who is imposing their own values on whom?

Nice argument klikster.

Edited November 28, 2009 by way2muchcoffee

[dom samui]

US can list blacklist ,yellow list whatever they want, and then?...

And beginning to work early isn t so bad,..... gives you more experience ...no?

[Publicus]

It is, Neverdie, but let's not go into discussions about the US being the big bad police man of the world, being morally corrupt etc.

OK than; let's put it another way:

As regarding the internal affairs of Thailand, including child labour, this has nothing to do with the United States.

Sorry but there is no other direction this thread can go, it concerns the USA and their holier than thou ultra righteous bullying tactic policies of a small country such as Thailand, when it`s not required or wanted.

I am sure that forced child slave labour is wide spread all over the United States, therefore the Yanks are in no position to preach the rights and wrongs to Thailand and should first settle the problem at their own front door.

Why don't you condemn the EU then, since the EU and the Scandanavian bloc have similar regulations in place and have asked the US government for many years to support the initiative. If you want to condemn the USA, then please start with countries like Norway, Sweden and the UK where the movement to stop child labor was nurtured. It is an honorable initiative.

How is it righteous bullying when the US government listens to a coalition that crossed all political lines and that was heavily supported by groups heavily involved in providing aid and protecting the rights of children? If you want to condemn the USA, then please also condemn the Church of England, the Vatican, the ILO, Oxfam, Save the Children, and many other reputable organizations and groups that pushed for this.

In response to those that are trying to pass this off as the result of lobbying by shrimp farmers in the US gulf states, how about being fair? Those farmers said that they would like a level playing field. If they are obliged to respect child labor rules, and to follow rules that regulate the use of chemicals and additives into the food supply etc., it is only fair that other suppliers be obliged to follow similar rules. It is unfair to demand of one group to follow certain basic laws that render them uncompetitive, and to say, no problem to other suppliers that rely on unfair trade practices to cut costs. Sorry, but I applaud the commercial interests that supported this because it protects the minimum wage workers in the US from losing their jobs to children paid a few satangs. Why should companies like the GAP be obliged to follow onerous and expensive clothing source regulations, but its competitors not have to follow the same regulations? No one is forcing Thailand to sell into the US market. If a Thai or other nation's supplier do not agree with the regulations, they have a simple solution: Don't sell into the US market. Where does it say, American consumers that do not want to purchase child slave labor products have to purchase the products? Many consumers do not want these products. It is you that are self righteous in trying to force honest, decent people to accept such tainted products.

And again, this is not about children working. It is about forced child labour in dangerous environments. The process that the USA has supported does not preclude after school or part time work. What it is trying to mitigate is a situation where a 7 year old is locked into a fire trap building forced to sew, or a child that is chained to a fish processing table and forced to shuck shellfish for 10 hours in a dark room with no air. If you have any sense of decency and humanity, you cannot argue against this initiative. I am glad that the USA joined other countries in trying to make the world a better place, If people want to spit venom because of that moral decency, go right ahead. Those of us that know right from wrong are not going to change our views.

If you can't handle this initiative then go show your support for child labor and seek out products made by little kids. Maybe some entrepreneur can start a clothing label that features a crippled child on a tag so that you know you are getting your money's worth. Maybe a carrefour or Tesco in your locale can set up a banner over some of the shrimp products that proudly announces that the shrimp were prepared by 6 year olds beaten for not making their quota. I'm sure that would boost sales.

Once again, you've stated the actual situation calmly, accurately, in focus and without any axe to grind.

The post concerning the International Convention on the Rights of the Child speaks more broadly to the point and also contributes directly to the thread, as do the posts concerning the International Labor Organization.

Edited November 28, 2009 by Publicus

[BigC]

It's interesting though not unexpected that the natural knee-jerk reaction in the government is to blame foreigners.. "She said that it might appear as if young children are being used in factories because some foreign workers bring their children to work."

Sure.

yes when i doubt blame the forangs. i do like thailand but i can't help but feel that sometimes the gov does try to make it hard for foreigners. as a result i doubt that large companies will like to invest in this un stable country

[blaze]

...go show your support for child labor and seek out products made by little kids. Maybe some entrepreneur can start a clothing label that features a crippled child on a tag so that you know you are getting your money's worth. Maybe a carrefour or Tesco in your locale can set up a banner over some of the shrimp products that proudly announces that the shrimp were prepared by 6 year olds beaten for not making their quota. I'm sure that would boost sales.

Not a bad idea GK- and if promotion is needed--- help yourself:

http://www.theonion.com/content/video/gap_...or_kids_by_kids

[geriatrickid]

Every so often there are posts made, where I think, dam_n, that's good. Better than me.

Borrowing Publicus' observation,

The post concerning the International Convention on the Rights of the Child speaks more broadly to the point and also contributes directly to the thread, as do the posts concerning the International Labor Organization.

Yes, that says it all.

And then the link from 'blaze'

http://www.theonion.com/content/video/gap_...or_kids_by_kids[/url]

An uncomfortable piece of social satire that brings the point home.

[metro33777]

The U.S. is fighting to safe their economy, trade deficit. Look at the dollar, gold price, oil price. Best, by building wall preventing easy access of imports from emerging countries. Anti dumping coudl help some, but child labour is hard-to-disputed reason of protetionism. Countries with balanced trade (profitable to U.S.) may only be put on watch-list.

Bunch of hypocrites the US, insofar as child labor used in foreign developing countries. Why is there a summer vacation from school? as the US was mainly an agriculture society, children were needed to help the family in the fields to raise the crops, ie the planting growing and after school started the harvest. It was necessary for survival. Ain't nothing easy about farm work.

I don't believe utilizing kids in sweat shops, but their ain't nothing wrong with helping in the family's business.

By nine I was selling the Evening Independent in front of the Sears store daily after school and on weekends, had to give it up as my lawn mowing customers kept me too busy, and I dang sure had to do my home chores and school work. At twelve I added night work as a batboy for the local minor league team $5 per game $7.50 for double header. Not bad money in 1961-62

The point is a little work will motivate ya

So true.

[Publicus]

The U.S. is fighting to safe their economy, trade deficit. Look at the dollar, gold price, oil price. Best, by building wall preventing easy access of imports from emerging countries. Anti dumping coudl help some, but child labour is hard-to-disputed reason of protetionism. Countries with balanced trade (profitable to U.S.) may only be put on watch-list.

Bunch of hypocrites the US, insofar as child labor used in foreign developing countries. Why is there a summer vacation from school? as the US was mainly an agriculture society, children were needed to help the family in the fields to raise the crops, ie the planting growing and after school started the harvest. It was necessary for survival. Ain't nothing easy about farm work.

I don't believe utilizing kids in sweat shops, but their ain't nothing wrong with helping in the family's business.

By nine I was selling the Evening Independent in front of the Sears store daily after school and on weekends, had to give it up as my lawn mowing customers kept me too busy, and I dang sure had to do my home chores and school work. At twelve I added night work as a batboy for the local minor league team $5 per game $7.50 for double header. Not bad money in 1961-62

The point is a little work will motivate ya

And during the long snow filled frigid winters of Boston USA I shovelled snow for a buck, and I mean with a shovel.....snow being precipitation is heavy. So look at us now. Some of us glorify our labor in youth and others, while we know our kids need to know and appreciate the value of a buck, believe in contemporary times there are better ways to do it, so the "onion" post above is recommended.

[mbattaglia89]

America is no different than any other country in the world when it comes to hypocrisy.

MORONS.

[Publicus]

America is no different than any other country in the world when it comes to hypocrisy.

MORONS.

[Publicus]

In the interest of everyone, but especially concerning one's own mental hygiene, any pathology should be treated professionally lest it becomes self consuming. And the sooner the better.

Edited November 28, 2009 by Publicus

[Jingthing]

Well I think hypocrisy is a typical aspect of human nature, and Americans are quite human. Considering the theory/myth of "American exceptionalism" may shed some light on this topic --

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism

The idea of American exceptionalism may indeed be something rather recently embraced by American neocons, but actually I feel the vast majority of Americans of all political viewpoints harbor the feeling that we are somehow special and superior. It is also understandable that this would piss off other nationalities. Oh well, what are you going to do about it?

Edited November 28, 2009 by Jingthing

[Credo]

Children are the future. It's best not to spend our future in the present.

Edited November 28, 2009 by Credo

[endure]

Well I think hypocrisy is a typical aspect of human nature, and Americans are quite human. Considering the theory/myth of "American exceptionalism" may shed some light on this topic --

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism

The idea of American exceptionalism may indeed be something rather recently embraced by American neocons, but actually I feel the vast majority of Americans of all political viewpoints harbor the feeling that we are somehow special and superior. It is also understandable that this would piss off other nationalities. Oh well, what are you going to do about it?

Wait until your empire declines as empires have through the ages.