Perception Of Pattaya

[sinbad]

Fourbaht, we will have to agree to differ. Most of the people I talk to in Pattaya believe Donald Campbell's image of what goes on here to be a very large part of life in Pattaya - not a small part as you yourself so eloquently suggested. It is a question of perception, and some people obviously perceive things differently.

But I question the statistics: 45% increase in number of families over last three years in Pattaya? And, 650,000 British tourists and two million other visitors to Pattaya every year? From what source did the statistics come from? More importantly, what method of research was used to collect those statistics? And out of interest, of the so called 650,000 Brit tourists and 2 million other visitors, what percentage of those are drawn here because of the ever increasing number of bars and the services provided by the thousands of prostitutes? What I am more inclined to agree with is the boom in real estate, because, as with the increase in bars and prostitution, it can be seen with one's own eyes.

As some leading Thais (not farang) will tell you, for such a small town, Pattaya is one of the most violent places in Asia with one of the highest murder rates. A reliable source in the Bangkok police tells me that the Bangkok police ridicule the Pattaya police who largely have no training whatsoever in comparison, and who are almost totally bribable. The amount of justice someone has in Pattaya (when in difficult situations) is entirely dependent on their ability to pay or with whom they happen to know in influential positions. Without money or conections there is a higher risk of injustice. This may be okay for a privileged few who have wormed their way in, or bought themselves into such privileged positions with local authorities, but it doesn't help the rest of the farang or the Thai population.

Of the number of visitors to Pattaya, most of these are still sex touirists who come to enjoy the services provided by the estimated 3000 bars and thousands of prostitutes - initially, for the sole purpose of getting laid. This hasn't changed. And the number of bars continues to increase at a dramaitic rate. Every time you look more are being built. The reality is that the bulk of European, American, and Canadian people who come to Pattaya are initially drawn here by the sex trade. If that is not the case, why are there thousands of prostitutes and a continuous building of bars? Isn't a question of supply and demand? Perhaps some people haven't noticed these things, or maybe, as the privelged few, they choose not to see it.

The number of family visitors is highly exaggerated and misleading, hence the reason I ask for an explanation of the statistics. Certainly, there has been in an increase in the number of Thai families who visit Pattaya, mainly at the weekends, and there has been an increase in the number of south east Asian tourists, some of whom are families, but very few wholly farang families come ere for their holidays - other than by mistake, or if they are passing through having visited Ko Chang.

Unfortunately, people who defend and justify the downside of Pattaya do not help the country in any way whatsoever. It is an insult to the rest of the country - the people who are largely embarrassed by the place. The only way a country moves forward and develops is if people expose the bad things, not brush them under the carpet and pretend everything is okay.

[Boatabike]

I have never been tp pattaya so my opinion is based on the gossip and tales of the place posted in places like this forum and from people i have known to have visited. I was offered a lift there 2 days ago with a Thai friend going to buy a kayak, and i refused point blank, as all i have heard of the place gives me no desire to visit it at all. Of course to give the place a fair chance i should see it for myself, but then the negative stories i have heard from both foreign and thai friends makes that highly unlikely! Even having a good Thai female friend (a very good girl) who keeps asking me to visit wont get me to go there so i guess my opinion is set!

[devildog683]

been there 4 times, twice on military operations, twice on vacation (2 days each time) for a total of about 6 months. It is a dangerous place at times and, yes, there is an excess of "adult activity". But like any other place, it is what you make it to some extent. Plus the "walking ATM" concept is in full affect, everyone wants your money. I try to avoid it as much as i can, as does the wife.

[NedKelly]

Driving through the place recently (several times on business) I was quite amazed at the number of old codgers walking around with younger Thai girls. I expected it, but some that I saw really blew me away.......like really old guys.....say well into their 80's staggering along barely able to walk and in tow ......yep the young Thai woman.

Now I dont want to judge people....... I am more interested in the academic side of this phenomena.......what will the future hold in Thailand for the thousands of luk khrueng kids that will be running around. The socio demographic side of the story will be a very interesting read if someone cares to research the idea and publish something of substance.

The junk we read about at times on forums such as this is just that....junk and personal opinion. This is a very human story.

[devildog683]

its a good point, nedkelly

i'd be interested to see the stats too

[penelope]

I was quite amazed at the number of old codgers walking around with younger Thai girls. I expected it, but some that I saw really blew me away.......like really old guys.....say well into their 80's staggering along barely able to walk and in tow ......yep the young Thai woman.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is mother nature at work at her most pure and elegant. Old man driven by sex, young woman driven by survival. I'm sure that there is an intergalactic David Attenborough out there narrating the behaviour of the human species

[bartender100]

Here's a perception I have posted before.Pattaya is a great place to live,most of the crime's are commit Thai on Thai as in the rest of the country,Farang murders are few and far between.

Ok hear we go.Things that make Pattaya great.

SPORTS.

Deepsea fishing

Freshwater fishing

All types of water-sport,surfing,sailing,skiing,jet ski,to name a few.

Golf,some of the best courses are nearby

Driving ranges 2

Go-cart circuits 2

Lawn Bowls

Well equipped and cheap gyms

Motor cycle clubs

Marathon every year.

LIFESTYLE

Affordable housing

Cheap utilities

Cheap transport around town

8 International style supermarkets

Numerous fresh food markets,including a fantastic fresh fish market.

Safer than most western cities

Internet connections slowly improving.

Plenty of ex-pat clubs for help settling in.

ENTERTAINMENT

2 cinemas

Top quality restaurants,including probably 2 of the best in Thailand.

Social bars that include community events and sports,darts,pool,quiz's, TV sports

Live music venues.including B'sF featuring the reconised best guitarist in Thailand,Lam Morrison at The Blues Factory.

Pattaya music festival,drawing over 100,000 people each year

Naughty nightlife,go-go's etc.

Walking Street promoted by Thailand as entertainment center.

WITHIN EASY REACH(and great for kids)

Nong Nual tropical gardens

Tiger zoo

Snake farm

Crocodile Farm

Aquarium

Pattaya Park Water Park

Koh Samet,Koh Lan+other island and beaches nearby

Dolphin park(sorry can't remember the name)

FUTURE

Improving infrastructure

100 Rai Amusement park being built

Olympic style Indoor athlete arena being built

Cleaner beach's,people swim in Pattaya bay now.

OPPORTUNITY

Plenty of business types for farang entrepreneurs,there are many,many successful bar,restaurant and other business owners in Patty,despite what you might read.

If you don't like pattaya stay away nobody is asking you to come,but please don't believe all you.

[Kerryd]

Now I dont want to judge people....... I am more interested in the academic side of this phenomena.......what will the future hold in Thailand for the thousands of luk khrueng kids that will be running around. The socio demographic side of the story will be a very interesting read if someone cares to research the idea and publish something of substance.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, this isn't a new thing for starters. Pattaya (as we know and think of it now), started to blossom during the Vietnam conflict (which I know little about, BECAUSE I WASN"T THERE !)

So, the "down side" of life in Pattaya has been there for well over 30 years now, plenty of time to judge the "socio demographic side of the story" I would think. Is the whole country on the verge of moral collapse because of this ? Has there been no improvement in the lives of the people living in the remote villages, as a result of all the money being sent back ? Are all the girls/boys that are (and have been) in the "trade" now socially maladjusted outcasts ?

Do they have the same sort of discussions about places like Amsterdam, or the various red-light districts in Germany ?

[Kerryd]

Back to the OP. Perceptions of Pattaya. In most cases, people I've talked to don't know the name Pattaya. A few may have heard about Phuket.

In almost every case though, as soon as they hear "Thailand", the first thing that pops into their heads is "SEX", and they all assume that's the only reason anyone would go there.

I've spent hours explaining to people all the wonderful things to see and do in Thailand, that can be done without ever having to be exposed to the seedier side of life.

After a bit of explaining, and mentioning that I live there (when I'm not working in some armpit of the world), their perceptions start to change a little.

Those that have heard of Pattaya, well, it's pretty much universal. They all think of it as a city that only exists for sex.

One guy I knew from here in '03. Was going to Thailand for a 1 week R&R. I told him I usually go to Pattaya. His response was "I would never go to "Sin City", I'm going to Phuket".

As though there is no vice in Phuket ! The 3rd or 4th girl (BG) he met in Phuket, he fell in love with. Ended up quitting his job to move there, get married and open up a business. Things apparently didn't work out as planned. Last I heard he was divorced (funny how that works when the money stops coming in) and making ends meet by working (unofficially) for someone else's business.

Too many people, who know next to nothing, focus only on the seedy side of the city. Mostly hypocrites as well, as they tend to ignore the same things (or worse) that go on in their own cities, be it London or LA, Sydney or Seattle, Portland or Portsmouth.

[Jack Jones]

Pattaya, always an emotive subject. I would say unless you've been there, don't comment on the place.

I've been coming to Thailand for arouind 6 years and always avoided the place like the plague because of what people had told me. I decided to go and see it for myself last month. My first impressions were much like the OP and at first I felt a little disgusted by the place, ie. old farangs, young Thai girls and the level of farang violence is higher than other parts of Thailand. However, I did have a great time and am going back there to catch up with two mates who I met there, who are 2 of the soundest people I've ever met in Thailand.

Yes, there are bad parts to Pattaya, I was sat next to some Combat 18 guys in one bar and felt distinctly uneasy. However, if you venture outside of the main scene, Pattaya has much to offer - just avoid the beach.

[ProfessorFart]

Pattaya is a holiday resort end of story.

It is no more a disgrace to Thailand than Benidorm is to Spain. The loudest people who gripe about Pattaya are those who see themselves as having 'moved on' from 'that scene' having once enjoyed it in order to make themselves appear more established and sophisticated in the expatriate heirarchy.

Yes there are your C18 types there, along with (if we beleive the rumours to be true, Russian, Scandinavian and German 'mafias') yet to suggest the place is over run with them is just an utter nonsense.

Yes, Pattaya is very much geared towards nightlife for the single male, however to suggest that every tourist there is out on the pull is also an nonsense and an insult to the many who go there for nothing more sinister than a good night out, a bit of shopping, a good feed and to see mates.

Anyone who finds the Pattaya tourists offensive should take a quick visit to Magaluf, Rhodes Town, Benidorm to name but a few Mediterranean Resorts infested by the youth of Europe drinking, puking, f*cking, and fighting in the streets of these once charming places.

They would soon see Pattaya as pretty low key. Again its a case of snobbery plain and simple.

The urge of the social climber to distance himself from his or her own roots!?

[britmaveric]

Ibiza is worst IMHO. If you want to see lewdness take a gander there over the summer. Pattaya is tame in comparison. As for old fossils w/younger Thai ladies- why does it bother people so much? I find it amusing and chuckle about it - good on these old lads if they are up to the challenge.

Pattaya is a fine city with much to offer as bartender pointed out and the Guardian article was rubbish plain and simple. As for the OP thinking BKK men in brown are any better than Patters you are in fantasy land.

Edited April 13, 2005 by britmaveric

[ProfessorFart]

Unfortunately, people who defend and justify the downside of Pattaya do not help the country in any way whatsoever. It is an insult to the rest of the country - the people who are largely embarrassed by the place. The only way a country moves forward and develops is if people expose the bad things, not brush them under the carpet and pretend everything is okay.

I wonder Sinbad if you can actually back up this statement? Or is it mere wishful thinking that everyone thinks the same way as you do?

[gburns57au]

Pattaya, always an emotive subject. I would say unless you've been there, don't comment on the place.

I've been coming to Thailand for arouind 6 years and always avoided the place like the plague because of what people had told me. I decided to go and see it for myself last month. My first impressions were much like the OP and at first I felt a little disgusted by the place, ie. old farangs, young Thai girls and the level of farang violence is higher than other parts of Thailand. However, I did have a great time and am going back there to catch up with two mates who I met there, who are 2 of the soundest people I've ever met in Thailand.

Yes, there are bad parts to Pattaya, I was sat next to some Combat 18 guys in one bar and felt distinctly uneasy. However, if you venture outside of the main scene, Pattaya has much to offer - just avoid the beach.

I would hate to think that some of these old guys with young girls could be some of my mates there who are in their 60's with very attractive 40ish yo Thai wives....Personally I havent seen any really old guys with really young girls since 1994....she was 22yo and he 80+ actually had a walking frame. However I found out later that they wasnt sex involved...he was happy to pay for some young attractive company. Having said that I am sure it does go on, but perhaps I just dont notice it anymore.

[ProfessorFart]

One more point is that one of the worst places I've been to in Asia for loutish behaviour is Bali.

[gburns57au]

One more point is that one of the worst places I've been to in Asia for loutish behaviour is Bali.

Yer gonna blame us Aussies for that now aint ya

[Thomas_Merton]

Fourbaht, we will have to agree to differ. Most of the people I talk to in Pattaya believe Donald Campbell's image of what goes on here to be a very large part of life in Pattaya - not a small part as you yourself so eloquently suggested. It is a question of perception, and some people obviously perceive things differently.

True. I perceive you talk to people in Pattaya. You must obviously be a frequent visitor as you profess deep knowledge and insight. Why all this contact with a place you abhor?

But I question the statistics: 45% increase in number of families over last three years in Pattaya? And, 650,000 British tourists and two million other visitors to Pattaya every year? From what source did the statistics come from? More importantly, what method of research was used to collect those statistics? And out of interest, of the so called 650,000 Brit tourists and 2 million other visitors, what percentage of those are drawn here because of the ever increasing number of bars and the services provided by the thousands of prostitutes? What I am more inclined to agree with is the boom in real estate, because, as with the increase in bars and prostitution, it can be seen with one's own eyes.

Interesting thing sources: never found in others, never offered by you.

As some leading Thais (not farang) will tell you, for such a small town, Pattaya is one of the most violent places in Asia with one of the highest murder rates.

Interesting thing sources: never found in others, never offered by you.

A reliable source in the Bangkok police tells me that the Bangkok police ridicule the Pattaya police who largely have no training whatsoever in comparison, and who are almost totally bribable.

Interesting thing sources: never found in others, never offered by you.

The amount of justice someone has in Pattaya (when in difficult situations) is entirely dependent on their ability to pay or with whom they happen to know in influential positions. Without money or conections there is a higher risk of injustice. This may be okay for a privileged few who have wormed their way in, or bought themselves into such privileged positions with local authorities, but it doesn't help the rest of the farang or the Thai population.

Of the number of visitors to Pattaya, most of these are still sex touirists who come to enjoy the services provided by the estimated 3000 bars and thousands of prostitutes - initially, for the sole purpose of getting laid. This hasn't changed.

99% of all single people who go on holiday to Benidorm. Ibiza, Copenhagen, Bali or even Pattaya etc are by their very nature (young and virile) sex tourists.

And the number of bars continues to increase at a dramaitic rate. Every time you look more are being built.

Same in Blackpool, Brighton and even New York

The reality is that the bulk of European, American, and Canadian people who come to Pattaya are initially drawn here by the sex trade. If that is not the case, why are there thousands of prostitutes and a continuous building of bars? Isn't a question of supply and demand? Perhaps some people haven't noticed these things, or maybe, as the privelged few, they choose not to see it.

Name a major tourist resort in the world that caters for westerners and Chinese (as well as the native born) that is not expanding.

The number of family visitors is highly exaggerated and misleading, hence the reason I ask for an explanation of the statistics. Certainly, there has been in an increase in the number of Thai families who visit Pattaya, mainly at the weekends, and there has been an increase in the number of south east Asian tourists, some of whom are families, but very few wholly farang families come ere for their holidays - other than by mistake, or if they are passing through having visited Ko Chang.

This is utter rubbish. My first trip to Pattaya was with my daughter on a plane full of Scandinavian families. Planes arrive daily full of charter trips organised for families from Sweden, Denmark and Norway – just to name that part of the world.

Unfortunately, people who defend and justify the downside of Pattaya do not help the country in any way whatsoever. It is an insult to the rest of the country - the people who are largely embarrassed by the place. The only way a country moves forward and develops is if people expose the bad things, not brush them under the carpet and pretend everything is okay.

Exactly. Like political corruption, police corruption, unjust legal systems, outright privileges for the chosen few, abject poverty for the vast majority of Thai citizens etc. etc. ad nauseam.

-then why are wasting your time concentrating on what people do with their w*llies in a small seaside town in this great country?

Edited April 13, 2005 by Thomas_Merton

[ProfessorFart]

Very well put Thomas!

Its noticable that Sinbad is conspicuous by his total lack of replies on ANY of his posts........................................

[britmaveric]

Very well put Thomas!

Its noticable that Sinbad is conspicuous by his total lack of replies on ANY of his posts........................................

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Typical isn't it?

[Pattaya_Fox]

Very well put Thomas!

Its noticable that Sinbad is conspicuous by his total lack of replies on ANY of his posts........................................

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well it seems that he once had a girlfriend and after he had made love to her she went to the shop and never came back.......I wonder why????

[Smokin Joe]

I have never been to pattaya so my opinion is based on the gossip...

...no desire to visit it at all.

...my opinion is set!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This idiot is much worse than Sinbad. I don't agree with Sinbad at all but at least he puts forth a well written opinion, even if it is made up of self-generated sources and statistics.

[aqua4]

I like Pattaya more than I do Bangkok. Compared to Bangkok, there is less pollution, less traffic and it is easier to get around.

What makes it vastly different is the mixture of cultures, the changing nightlife scene, the complete change of the landscape. More and more families are arriving in Pattaya, more now after the Tsunami. All those "Beer Bars" that was once on Beach Road is now part of history and a huge condominium complex is being built. A new shopping center is in the pipeline and off course the marina. All those "Beer Bars" that you think is new beyond Second Road, is not really new but relocations. The idea of closing Walking Street, is comming closer, for the development of the marina. Pattaya is getting a second english television news broadcast, in the next month or so and from what I can see will give the present one a run for its money.

More Hotels are opening each day, not the grimmy sort, but better quality hotels. I see more families on the beach now a days, be it Thai or Falang. Pattaya has been more and more geared towards family tours. The Chinese still make up a huge tourist presence, but not a spending one.

As for violence, most of it is Thai against Thai or Falang against Falang. Very rarely across the spectrum. There are increases in petty crime, but from where I stand, I think Pattaya Police does an excellent job in terms of visible policing. Lets consider that there is a slum just a stone throw away from Jomtien.

You are correct that it is a supply and demand in terms of the flesh trade but, when you look at the amount of bars just closing then you can see that there is a slump, all be it the market being saturated. Pattaya will always have it bars, but as time moves by it will no longer dot the landscape as it did many years ago.

Pattaya, I dont see as being an insult to Thailand. The largest customer base for the flesh trade is Thai people themselves, not Falangs. Go to any back street in Bangkok and there you will find the little yellow flickering lights of a Thai bar. Falangs did not bring it here, nor are falangs the largest customer base.

There is a booming property market in Pattaya, but this is mainly due to the improving infrastructure. The local government is spening huge on development. Many falangs see Pattaya as a good place to retire, english all round and easy to get around with a low cost of living with excellent low cost health facilities. Where in the world can you get a surgeon at 11 at night for minor surgery for the price of US$30?

Yes, Pattaya is not for everyone. Even I know that.

I remeber someone once telling me that Pattaya was "Gods Waiting Room". Alot of the expats living there are old, really in thier years and in my view are doing nothing more than waiting to die. If he has a young bird, so be it. I think nobody really wants to die alone. This must highlite your failures in life.

[davethailand]

I have never been tp pattaya so my opinion is based on the gossip and tales of the place posted in places like this forum and from people i have known to have visited. I was offered a lift there 2 days ago with a Thai friend going to buy a kayak, and i refused point blank, as all i have heard of the place gives me no desire to visit it at all. Of course to give the place a fair chance i should see it for myself, but then the negative stories i have heard from both foreign and thai friends makes that highly unlikely! Even having a good Thai female friend (a very good girl) who keeps asking me to visit wont get me to go there so i guess my opinion is set! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok then. Bye

[pluto_manibo]

A lot of the bar beer complexes are being torn down, as they were built on what has become prime property.(eg: Bar beer complex on soi 9 and second road). If you ever wander down to Cosy Beach in Jomtien, there are large numbers of Russian and Scandinavian families enjoying the beach....

Pattaya is evolving and so is the target market, all of you who criticise it( some of which have never been here!) will kick yourself in the balls for not having bought property...

[DJ Pat]

kick yourself in the balls for not having bought property...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm one of these folks.

[ProfessorFart]

Yer gonna blame us Aussies for that now aint ya

Nope Gburns, the worst offenders were those posh AUS/UK/NZ/SA holidaying expat brat rugger puff types, that one finds in HK/SING/KL with their ropey stuck up horse faced girlfriends.

You know the kind. The sort that end up teaching in Thailand and posting on Thai Visa under the name of Sinbad!

[bag lady]

Yer gonna blame us Aussies for that now aint ya

Nope Gburns, the worst offenders were those posh AUS/UK/NZ/SA holidaying expat brat rugger puff types, that one finds in HK/SING/KL with their ropey stuck up horse faced girlfriends.

You know the kind. The sort that end up teaching in Thailand and posting on Thai Visa under the name of Sinbad!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well said.

Pattaya is a great place.

[toddy]

I go to Pattaya for good quality dog food and hand-rearing food for parrots. When I go down there from Buriram I drive down and my wife's brother drives back and we do it in one day - such is our dislike for the place due to the fact that we can go for a beer together anywhere in Buriram Province and not have the total p*** taken out of us but in Pattaya we get so many ridiculous things said and strange looks (from males and females both farang and Thai) that we'd rather get back to the village for last orders ... LAST ORDERS - NO SUCH THING WHERE WE ARE!

[bob a job]

I go to Pattaya for good quality dog food and hand-rearing food for parrots. When I go down there from Buriram I drive down and my wife's brother drives back and we do it in one day - such is our dislike for the place due to the fact that we can go for a beer together anywhere in Buriram Province and not have the total p*** taken out of us but in Pattaya we get so many ridiculous things said and strange looks (from males and females both farang and Thai) that we'd rather get back to the village for last orders ... LAST ORDERS - NO SUCH THING WHERE WE ARE!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Last orders in Pattaya , don't think so.

Still drink 24/7

But im sure all the guys in Buriram have a good time on there owen.

Buriram the place to go. !!!!!!!!! Night life zero.

Have a nice night on your owen.

[fourbaht]

Sinbad, no need for PM’s I have access to the main forum still.

Why is Pattaya a problem for you? What if a large number of tourists do come to Pattaya for sex? Why did you come to Pattaya? Why do a large number of tourists go to Bangkok or many of the Central American countries?

Sex is for sale the world over, why select one side of a city that is no different from hundreds of other cities, because the article was not about Sex and prostitution it was about selling newspapers. (Sensationalism)

The figures of 650,000 came from the Guardian Article, the other figures from TAT.

Pattaya is not every ones cup of tea, but why do you want it changed so badly?

I live a very normal life with a wife of 7 years and 2 children, I go out maybe twice a month with some friends for a drink, I enjoy Pattaya for EVERYTHING it is, that is why I live here. (and yes she was a bar girl, I never met her in a 7 eleven which is where most people will have you believe they met their wives)

If it bothers you so much why do you stay?

How long have you been in Thailand? if it is any length of time you will know that the Thai people are very capable of taking care of problems themselves, when they perceive Pattaya as a problem it will change, have no doubt about that.

Where do you figures come from regarding the number of bars? Who are the leading Thai people you quote? Who is your source in the Bangkok police?

What is your hidden agenda here? Who are you to moralize for others with you sweeping statements that everything in Pattaya is bad.

What I hate more than the Thugs, Crooks and the rest of the scum who were mentioned in this article and who do take up residence in many places in the world, not just Pattaya, is people like you who assume that because something offends your moral values you have a god given right to make changes for the rest of the adult population.

Yes Pattaya has some bad things (no need to list them all) and in my time here I have seen things change and evolve naturally, (the best way in my opinion).

It will continue to evolve without your personal attacks on the people who choose to live here and whom I doubt very much you have met but feel qualified to comment on.

One last question, are you Donald Campbell?

Pattaya is a vibrant, young, fun city that has something for every one, except those who live on such high moral ground that they cannot see far enough.