A Somewhat Special Situation

[whatchamacallit]

to OP: Once again do not complicate the issue - for a Non-Immigrant-O visa you will need a letter of recommendation from a Thai friend/family (boy or girl) and a copy of her/his ID. Here is a sample letter my friend prepared for me when I applied for my Non-Immigrant-O and it worked just fine:

November 12, 2009

Royal Thai Consulate General – XXXXX

Dear Sir/Madam:

My name is XXXXXXXXX a citizen of Thailand. The purpose of this letter is to inform you that my friend XXXXXXXX (USA Passport holder number 99999999) is planning to come to Thailand to visit me. I would like to request that you grant him a Non-Immigrant-Type-O visa with multiple entries valid for 1 year.

Thank you for your kind consideration in advance.

Sincerely

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

The above letter is very short simple and to the point. No need to tell them your life story - they will NOT be interested.

Good luck.

[thaiphoon]

Different consulates have different requirements, and there are only a handful of honorary consulates across the globe that will issue a 12 month multiple entry Non-Immigration O visa for the purpose of visiting friends. Believe the Op is still in home country, so would suggest consider applying by post to the honorary consulate in Hull (UK) as paperwork requirements there are more relaxed (passport/photo/fee/application form) for this type of visa. But will have to do border runs every 90 days.

http://www.thaiconsul-uk.com/downloads-and-visas.aspx

[galvheim]

Thanks to both of the above: I already found that letter :-) And it seems very simple. Would it be any benefit to me if I had this invitation signed by other members of her family too, Like her dad?

Visaruns every 90 days is luxury in my opinion, and is certainly no problem.

So over to this Hull-Consulate: I have doubt that the Royala Thai Embassy here in Norway would grant me anything like that, since she again and again said that I could only get a tourist-visa of 60 days unless I was retiered (above 50 yrs) or had a company there. I asked her if there was possible to apply for a non-immigrant visa O, and she just said I could try...

So from how I interpret her, I might as well go for the Consulate in Hull via mail. But my only question to this is how I should pay them. They would of course need some money for the visa-applicaton but also for postage too. I have no idea what a envelope with a passport might cost to send to Norway.

And what would they think when they see me applying for a visa there, instead of using the Embassy in Oslo?

[whatchamacallit]

Thanks to both of the above: I already found that letter :-) And it seems very simple. Would it be any benefit to me if I had this invitation signed by other members of her family too, Like her dad?

Yes and when you're at it... have the whole village sign the letter :-).

Remember my earlier advice? KISS??

She is your friend, she is the one who's inviting you to come to Thailand - she is the one writing the letter so naturally she should be the one and only signing the letter. And don't forget a copy of her ID.

[galvheim]

...yes I remember...KISS.

I found out about payment. But agin wouldn't they think it's weird if I apply for this there, instead of here?

Should the letter be in Thai or is English just fine?

EDIT: Also, should I give them a copy of my old passport? Now I have to renew my passport since the old one is full. Will they need a full copy of my old one for this. I guess I have to fill out previous visits to Thailand, so then they might want to see this too. Should I send both of them in this case?

Edited November 29, 2009 by galvheim

[thaiphoon]

You do not need to send in a copy of your old passport, nor do you need to send a letter if using Hull. Have a look at the link I posted earlier. That details what is needed (passport/photo/fee/application form). Keep it simple; the more unnecessary documentation you supply the more chance you have of delay/queries. And you can can provide card details to pay.

[galvheim]

What about this?:

VISA APPLICATION COMPLETION NOTES

APPLICATIONS SHOULD BE SUBMITTED FROM A UK ADDRESS

Also this: Date of departure from UK

I am not departuring from the UK.

Edited November 29, 2009 by galvheim

[thaiphoon]

If have friends in UK then apply using that address, otherwise a quick trip to Hull who can issue visa whilst you wait if you make prior appointment. The date of departure is to help the consulate with workflow.

[Maestro]

While the invention of the telephone may be relatively recent I suspect it may already have arrived in Norway and may allow international phone calls, for example to a number in a town called Hull in England. The OP may want to try and see if it works.

--

Maestro

[galvheim]

If have friends in UK then apply using that address, otherwise a quick trip to Hull who can issue visa whilst you wait if you make prior appointment. The date of departure is to help the consulate with workflow.

I have no friends in the UK and a trip there with all the uncertainty of getting it or not is out of the question I think. Is it possible to just ask if they would accept it, or is this tied up to some kind of rule or law?

Has anyone experience from getting such a visa from the Thai Embassy in Oslo?

[Maestro]

Try the telephone, but don't tell them the story of your life or they, too, may get fed up with you and turn you down.

--

Maestro

[Gats]

Topic has gone a bit past this, but just for the record, the Thai system does not have a lot of room for "special circumstances" and rightly so, they are a more developing economy who needs to protect themselves from foreign ownership and all the good jobs going to people with free educations (ie Norweigans and us Aussies). Not to mention the cost of enforcing and managing those grey areas. Why do you think they're happy for you to stay for long periods as long as you check in every 30/90 days.. easiest enforcement policy and one to just fit in with rather than creating a fuss.

Beaurocrats are paid to choose a black or white, not manage grey areas.

I travel a lot and my work lets me telecommute... imagine trying to explain that to a border protection agency? It's very common, but i'm not aware of any country that's got a "rule" for that yet. I still work and get paid in my home country, but when i'm not working on the computer on my desk at my home country, i'm a tourist... the rules are there for accountability so they can use them if they need to, but nobody would object to me spending my foreign sallary in their country... just don't put in the bloody application because then somebody HAS to make a call on it... and trust me, they'll err on the side of safety.

Edited November 29, 2009 by Gats

[galvheim]

Thank you all. Through all your posts and through all your experience (I see that some of you are highly esteemed members which I feel know what they talk about) it starts to sink in that, yes, these are beurocrats who might not have the time nor resources to consider all this information and such special circumstances. Allthough they might, on a good day, that is hardly the case I can put my bets on. I will contact the Consulate in Hull and remember "KISS", and ask them if it's possible for me to apply for a visa by mail from Norway.

Edited November 29, 2009 by galvheim

[phetaroi]

...it starts to sink in that, yes, these are beurocrats who might not have the time nor resources to consider all this information and such special circumstances...

You still don't really get it.

The Thai government -- and virtually every other government on the face of this planet -- passes a law or a series of laws outlining the conditions for entry into their country by visa. The playing field (so to speak) is then fairly clear. For example, I knew what the rules were on coming here with a retirement visa. I knew how much money needed to be a Thai bank or how much I needed to prove in pension income. I knew what age I had to be. I knew what most of the procedures were, including the 90 day reports. In other words, it was a relatively straight forward and fair procedure. I knew the conditions under which I could bring my possessions into the country duty-free. It's a fairly good law. It sets the standard.

You're the type who wants special circumstances to enter the picture. That's when the unfairness creeps in.

I am a retired school principal. In my system students were assigned to a school based on certain rules. Parents were allowed to ask a principal for an exception based on "special circumstances". Each year I was asked for around 50 "special circumstances". The answer was virtually always no because the special circumstances were really requests to manipulate the system purely for their own preference. The most honest parent I ever had about this type of manipulation was one who, when turned down for some trumped up reason said, "But, let me be honest, I just don't want my child to go to the assigned school because their Black and Latino population is over 50%." At least she was honest about being dishonest. One day a parent came in for another silly exception and was furious when I refused the request, and then plopped the, "Well I know you made an exception for Judy X." I looked at her and I said, "Judy X's father was killed in car accident three years ago and her mother is now dying of cancer. Her grandparents, who will become her guardians after her mother dies in a few months live within our boundaries. When you have a case that strong, come back and see me."

Governments need to operate based on law, otherwise there is unfairness. I suggest you and your "friend" quite trying to manipulate the system and simply operate under Thai law. If you get the visas, fine...congratulations. If you don't get your visas, fine...continue living in your own country.

[Maestro]

You still don't really get it…

The poor chap is still in denial. He is incapable of posting a simple “thank you” and be done with it. No, he has to have a last swipe at these “beurocrats who might not have the time nor resources to consider all this information and such special circumstances”. Little does he know that "these bureaucrats" are probably reading this topic.

Best wishes to galvheim. I hope he gets his multiple-entry non-O visa and that he has not spoilt the chances for his friend to get his visa for Thailand.

--

Maestro

[galvheim]

If I don't know these (visa-)rules well enough, then of course I have to ask them a question. If they refuse a visa just for asking a question that in their and your mind seem like someone wants to cheat, then what can I do? I bet they get a lot more silly questions than this. Why should I not be honest about my intentions? If they say to me: "sorry mister, you can not do this" then I simply won't do it. If they say, "we can not help you, or make special arrangements for your case, and you would have to do this and this", then I would accept that. I am just asking. I am not trying to bend rules nor have I any intention to cheat the system or work illegaly in Thailand. I get a little bit mad from you guys always thinking this.

I base my questioning on the Norwegian immigration-system wich I though could be the same for other Embassies and Immigration authorities. For people who want to enter Norway, inviting people or applying for visa, there is taken consideration to special circumstances, and there is to a certain degree an individual process. Like my friend; after his accident he was of course without a job. He had stayed outside Norway for more than 6 months prior to his accident, and therefore had no right to be part of the Norwegian healthcare-system. His girlfriend wanted to visit him from Thailand that time, and even though he was quite far from being able to meet the set rules and laws for being a guarantor for her, the UDI (Foreign Office) still granted her visa based on his circumstances.

That might be a whole other case, but it shows that even if there is clear rules in place, at least our authorities here in Norway take consideration to aspects not outlined in the law. I also saw this when another friends girlfriend recently got rejected on the Embassy of Norway in BKK. She did not meet the requirements, but where able to make an appeal putting forward a more detailed explanation for the embassy, thus giving her the visa she wanted.

I do understand now, that this might not be the case in Thailand. But it seems like guys like some of you are really just full of yourselves just because you somhow made came under a taylor-made visa designed to let your kind stay there. I don't have the luxury, because of a age-difference to go under that visa. I also know from other visas I've had that the authorities are not always the way you interpret them. Being a princiapal of principals is indeed a breed that I'm am the totally oposite of. So that we might not see eye-to-eye is therefore no wonder. A lot of bad decisions have been made from the likes of you throughout the history.

Remember I only asked them a question. If they want to blacklist me and my friend from entering into Thailand based on that, go ahead then. I can not stop them. The only reason I told about my salary was solely to show that I have well above the limit of what they require for a long-term non-immigrant visa, and that I would not be a liability to the society there. Instead it very much reflects back to me a lot about yourselves and your own stereotypes and weeknesses. Againg I have never meant to pay me out of this, to get a special deal, or believing I should get a sort of special treatment from that, or trying to cheat the system. These are all a product of yourself, and might be the answer to your attidtudes, not mine.

Edited November 30, 2009 by galvheim

[jazzbo]

I base my questioning on the Norwegian immigration-system

As Dorothy said in The Wizard of Oz : Toto -- I've a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.

what goes on in Norway has no bearing on here; I personally just think you are making it far more difficult for yourself and your friend than it needs to be... and the Visa application form as posted on the Ministry Foreign Affairs website as of today should pose no problem for you or your friend.

http://www.mfa.go.th/internet/consular/Vis...icationform.pdf

Attitude has nothing to do with it... beyond all the free advice -- pro or con -- you have received here, you should contact a Thai Immigration attorney to sort out your affairs.

Edited November 30, 2009 by jazzbo

[galvheim]

I base my questioning on the Norwegian immigration-system

As Dorothy said in The Wizard of Oz : Toto -- I've a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.

what goes oin Norway has no bearing on here; I personally just think you are making it far more difficult for yourself and your friend than it needs to be... and the Visa application form as posted on the Ministry Foreign Affairs website as of today should pose no problem for you or your friend. http://www.mfa.go.th/internet/consular/Vis...icationform.pdf

Attitude has nothing to do with it.

I just though that they might operate on a similar level, in that they would be happy to get a detailed description of what we had planned, not leaving out any information. In retrospect, hearing from your experience, this might not have been a good idea.

But I regularly get such bastant answers from my job in the oil-sector in Norawy too, and are not listening to all of it. Like my boss. He strongly believe we, as subcontractors, should never bother the operators about getting to drive our car into the factory, no matter how much we have to carry. This is his principal. But for me I just ask them if its ok to drive in, since its part of their job. I have yet to see someone reject this question or to imply that this is bothering for them. Recently I aplied for a permission to drive my own private car partly into the factory-area where we have our worksop. If I should believe ANY of the people who never even cared to try applying,b ut instead had to walk every day around 300 meters, this was a total futile effort and waste of time and paper for both me and the head security officer that would review my application. Arguments was that this had long been totally illegal and that there was no case of anyone getting it, and that I had no reason whatsoever to enter the site with my car. I still went to the chief of security, and by just going through it quickly he put a stamp on it, tore apart some part from the paper and handet it back to me with an RF-ID chip-thingy that I have to use in my car when driving through the gates the very next day.

[jazzbo]

As I just edited above, I think it is time for you to speak with one of the many fine Thai Immigration attorney services.

[galvheim]

As I just edited above, I think it is time for you to speak with one of the many fine Thai Immigration attorney services.

I will still await an answer from the Embassy before doing that. Nothing has changed since I first posted here. I don't see why I should involve them at this level. If thats what it takes, I am not interested to do so at this moment. I am not sure I will do so if it turns out to be a total rejection. As I said earlier, I do not need to visit Thailand. Its a nice place and all that, but I am not willing to force myself through. If I don't get any visa based on this, I will not work for him. I will continue save my money, and try to apply for a visa again later next year (before the pollen season). Maybe they still remember me and rejects my toursit-visa also based on this, so what can I do. I leave my house, my bike, computers to the miss. and continue my life up here. Dee-gwaa. I will let my friend sort himself out with his gf, and he might find other sollutions to this. For me its not the end of the world, and it might give me a new oportunity to see other countries too. Though it will have been a waste of time to have learned Thai-language both written and orally to the extent that I have...

[phetaroi]

...If they refuse a visa just for asking a question that in their and your mind seem like someone wants to cheat...

...then what can I do? I bet they get a lot more silly questions than this. Why should I not be honest about my intentions? If they say to me: "sorry mister, you can not do this" then I simply won't do it. If they say, "we can not help you, or make special arrangements for your case, and you would have to do this and this", then I would accept that...

...I am not trying to bend rules nor have I any intention to cheat the system or work illegaly in Thailand. I get a little bit mad from you guys always thinking this...

I base my questioning on the Norwegian immigration-system...

...I do understand now, that this might not be the case in Thailand. But it seems like guys like some of you are really just full of yourselves just because you somhow made came under a taylor-made visa designed to let your kind stay there...

...Being a princiapal of principals is indeed a breed that I'm am the totally oposite of. So that we might not see eye-to-eye is therefore no wonder. A lot of bad decisions have been made from the likes of you throughout the history...

You see, you just can't accept what anyone here writes unless that person writes what you want them to write.

Please show me where I used the word "cheat" or a synonym thereof. Trying to use "special circumstances" is not cheating, but probably doomed to failure.

You will accept immigration's decision? Really? You have no choice to accept their decision.

I would not say you are attempting anything illegal. But you are trying to bend the rules by seeking an exception.

Basing the situation the Norwegian system is...well, let's put it this way, "You're not in Oslo anymore, Toto."

No, we didn't look for a tailor made situation...we followed the law of Thailand.

I don't know what a "princiapal of principals" is, but yes, I guess as a group principals tend to be the kind of people that are rule followers, which clearly you are not. Principals, as a group, are just about as effective as any other profession. We are seen least effective by rule breakers and special exceptioneers. I am glad you acknowledge that principals have the power to change history! Ah the glory of it!

As one of the other posters suggested, it's probably time to see an immigration lawyer.

I wish you luck...or not...based on the law.

Edited December 1, 2009 by phetaroi

[galvheim]

So, after reviewing my e-mail for some time, I got an answer on it today, and it was a little bit of both there...

I have to translate it from Norwegian though and will do so almost to the word:

Hi,

Since I suppose you where the person I spoke with on the phone, I think you have allready been answered.

I am sorry that we could not be more helpful, but this is how the rules are, and they are equal for all.

I can give your friend a non-immigrant visa when he is married.

Since you are employed by him, I suppose we could help with a non-immigrant visa for you.

Stays longer then the 90 days that you will get from here, must be applied for at Immigration in Thailand.

With kind regards,

xxxx

I understand from the mail that they indeed will give me a non-immigrant visa IF my friend get married and applies for it. So as I said, they do not necessarily see things as black&white as some of you do in this forum. Also, after talking with both the embassy and the consulate they have given me virtually the exact same answer, and no mention ever, that this work is illegal in any way. I don't want to put that one to the test, but reading some of the posts here, you actually got me a little bit afraid after telling me how illegal this job would be. As you saw from my initial mail, I did mention actual work in Thailand. Also in the reply there was mention of being employed, which in turn indicates some occupation while in Thailand. I still think its a grey-area, as did immigration in Thailand when I once asked them there.

Hmmm... I suppose we will not need more than a tourist-visa this time, and we might be lucky to get a double entry touristvisa in Laos as we did last year, thus eneabling us to stay for up to 9 months.

[Mario2008]

Embassies/consulates don't deal with labour issues. The labour law is very clear that you will need a work permit. Without a work permit you are not only not allowed to work, but also won't be able to get an extension of stay.