Get Off My Land

[longstebe]

Here we go,

I have a decent size plot of land at the very back of the village (2 rai).

My house is somewhat complete but the rest of the land I have neglected for ther time being.

Now whats happening is, people are still treating it like nobody lives here.

It was quite amusing at first untill we caught a little kid bringing some of our bricks back.

Cows,chickens and people, mainly kids use my land for there own pleasure.

One time there was a older teenager with a gun firing into one of my trees, yards from the house.

I don't have kids so I wasn't worried too much.

Now here comes the argument, my fence isn't exactly burgular proof.

Saying that, it's still somebodys land.

[gotlost]

It sounds as if you have a project underway but not completed and that you may not be there full time. This could give the impression that the owners do not care to some of the locals. My suggestion would be to clean up the under brush re fence, concrete post and 3 strands of barb wire. Also plant some fruit tress. As you do this project offer some work to your neighbors and put on an inexpensive Thai BBQ. You will be surprised at the response they will have for you and the land.

[Svenn]

This is not the Anglo-Saxon countryside where there is 5 centuries of Common Law defining the autonomy of individual pastures and walled properties... this is a communal rice-farming society where land belongs to the village primarily, to the individual secondarily. "Trespass" is almost a foreign concept here, especially when the land isn't even fenced and you haven't given any notice to the village that it's yours!

Thais, especially Isaan folk, have seen their 'fee simple absolute' taken from them time and time again, hence the lack of any strong sense that anyone 'absolutely' owns the land they're on.

Don't know you personally longstebe, but I can't stand folk back in the U.S. who cower behind the "get off my land" slogan. I know a guy who just got yelled at a few weeks ago by some old codger farmer for taking some boyscout across "his" land 15 f-cking years ago! It was the highway rightaway near the codger's land, it wasn't even the farmer's property, and they were crossing it for a total of about 30 seconds (I was among them ).... yet the codger remembered that false trespass for 15 years and then cussed-out our old scout master. PLEASE don't turn into that!!

Edited November 29, 2009 by Svenn

[Daffy D]

It's been said in previous posts "Build your boundary fence first"

[stolidfeline]

You're lucky, the villagers cut down all the beautiful trees on our land. The important thing is to let everyone know the land is yours by building that fence. The BBQ is a good idea. But it will take some time before people get used to the ideas that it isn't theirs to use.

[Briggsy]

Have a look at the ethnic Chinese owned land in your area. 8 foot concrete wall around the land before the house is even started. And even taller intimidatory gates.

[prakhonchai nick]

This is not the Anglo-Saxon countryside where there is 5 centuries of Common Law defining the autonomy of individual pastures and walled properties... this is a communal rice-farming society where land belongs to the village primarily, to the individual secondarily. "Trespass" is almost a foreign concept here, especially when the land isn't even fenced and you haven't given any notice to the village that it's yours!

Svenn is absolutely correct. This is how the Thai's see the village land. Even if you build a wall, you will need a gate to gain access, and unless this is kept permanently locked. SOME locals will still wander in and pick fruits from your trees etc. Some will even just march straight into your home without knocking - which could, on occasions be somewhat embarrassing.

Over time they will learn that farang ways are somewhat different to Thai ways, and you will eventually get your privacy.

[dkstoney]

3-meter wall, razor-wire on top, automatic gate, rolling platforms with pots of boiling oil on top, sentry tower with sniper. That oughta keep 'em out.

[longstebe]

3-meter wall, razor-wire on top, automatic gate, rolling platforms with pots of boiling oil on top, sentry tower with sniper. That oughta keep 'em out.

Brilliant!

[longstebe]

Thanks for the comments guys.

Svenn - Thats a fair comment, I also lived in the States for 5 years and know what you mean when it

comes to peoples land and trespassing. Not a grumpy old sod yet!!!

None of my other neighbours homes are fenced in either but they don't have the open space like mine.

I'm certainly not one for starting trouble but I often wonder what they would do if I were to walk on

there land and start picking fruit .

Another thing is that I have some more land in a different village and the first thing I did was to lay

some soil down and build a big concrete wall around it.

Well lesson learnt I suppose, I will keep on good terms with the neighbours and keep smiling.

[prakhonchai nick]

3-meter wall, razor-wire on top, automatic gate, rolling platforms with pots of boiling oil on top, sentry tower with sniper. That oughta keep 'em out.

Plus a couple of pit bull terriers and a snake pit

[Prajak]

Let the local people build the fence and pay them a fair fee. Be there when they work, also your Thai partner or a thai person they trust. Than invite a senior monk and younger monks to "celebrate" the fence and your property. Hire one of the local people to be your gardener. There will be no more problems.

I have a (rented) house with a fence and my neigbour is my gardener. ONE day in a month he works and I pay him well. Since than nobody comes into my garden unless they ask me to pick flowers or plants from my garden. The flowers are for the temple, the plants and fruits for their living. But they ask ! Also my cleaning lady is from the local community.

I have no problems now.

[senshusband]

I must respectfully disagree with some of the comments here. Some here are suggesting that Thais do not have courtesy or manners in regards to others land. If they are strangers they won't just come to your place and do as they like or enter your home without announcing or invitation, UNLESS these people are ones that shouldn't be trusted around valuable items.

By the details you provided only tells us a vague description of the events. What I am wondering is: Do you or your partner know these people/kids? Is your partner from that village? How long have you been there? Do you normally feel welcome there? Did you "outbid" one of the locals when you bought the land? - These are some important questions that have to be asked and you may find out things in your answers. It sounds as if the people who are doing this do not respect you or your partner. Maybe they don't care to have a falong living there. You may be getting tested by the younger ones to see how "soft" you are and what they can get by with. I mean, if a teenager is shooting a gun outside your house at your tree, there is obviously a message there. I have to say, though, that I support the BBQ idea for the close neighbors and family. It really wouldn't cost a lot and you can learn a lot about who you live around.

[phibunmike]

I'm certainly not one for starting trouble but I often wonder what they would do if I were to walk on

there land and start picking fruit .

They would probably say hello and ofer you some fruit they have already picked

[longstebe]

Just to clear up some of the questions that have been asked.

The wife is not from this village.

Been here for about 3 months.

As for feeling welcome, nobody has said or done anything to myself personally (apart from trespass ).

The land had been up for gabs for some time I think.

We have had some local guys do some work on the land at the very beginning.

The kids are very young and they do move if I come outside but I suppose there always going to get

up to some mischief when the parents are not around.

I think I will take the advice from you guys and get a local dude to make our wall/fence.

The guys that done most of the house where from another village. I told them some stories about

life in America and what happens if you trespass, they were surprised and feared for the lives in the

days to follow . We joked about it. I think it boils down to adjusting from one extreme to another.

[senshusband]

Well, I hope it works out for you, but I recommend talking to the youths that come around and explain your situation, tell them how you feel about this, and how you want them to respect your property (all this with the help of your wife and possibly the poo-ya-ban, mayor or higher official in the village). Doing this with courtesy and respect towards them and maybe even throw in an ice cream sandwich, I think you would be surprised with the results. My experiences have always been that if you show them respect they oftentimes return that same respect. Plus, I have seen the effects of giving children ice cream (supposing you have an ice cream vendor in the area).

My wife and I have 2 rai in a village outside Udon. About a year and a half ago, a middle-aged lady who owns land next to ours decided that her boundry was on our land so she moved the marker. It amounted to about 20 -30 talang wa, but my in-laws use the land for growing crops. It also put the well on her side of the boundry. Luckily, we have a chanote that describes the boundries. My family and I had a heck of a time getting it settled, but we finally got the situation resolved and our boundries restored. Some times you will find those who try to get one over on you, but I think you will find that anywhere. Luckily for us, the land is in my in-laws name so it was Thai vs. Thai. Also, my family has a good name and respected in the village so it was a bigger loss of face for the lady than if it was me (falang) against her.

I just suggest being nice and courteous starting this out, so that you will have respect from the ones you have to live around. Remember, people will be watching you to see how you handle yourself and they will talk amonst themselves. Best to give them something good to talk about than to have your name turned to dirt. Again, I wish the best to you and hope everything works out.

[mca]

I must respectfully disagree with some of the comments here. Some here are suggesting that Thais do not have courtesy or manners in regards to others land. If they are strangers they won't just come to your place and do as they like or enter your home without announcing or invitation,

I have to agree with senshusband. I've got some jackfruit trees in my garden and the neighbours who want the fruit always knock on the door with a "Do you mind....?"

[thunder30101]

Yes thailand is different so we have to make adjustments in our thinking, but in america when i work hard for years and buy some land its MINE !!! Some people dont understand ownership and the hard work it takes to get there. Nothing more heartbreaking than to see someone has cut down trees for firewood or a 4wd has cut ruts thru your property or catch someone hunting out your land taking everything in sight and leaving their beer bottles and trash all over, then maybe you will not feel so bad about saying keep out.