At English Programme - Why Do Students And Teachers Look Down On Western Teachers?

[007]

Having worked in different government school environments in Thailand, I realised, that

some Thai teachers, but also many students look down on western teachers, making stupid jokes, or worse, using swear words like 'iheeya', etc., when talking about native teachers. This applies to EPs as well as to regular school programmes. So, why bother, if the 'foreign devils' are no good, why waste money learning school subjects in English in the English programme?

[Scott]

Let's take great care in this topic.

We have students who absolutely adore their Foreign Teachers. They come to us all the time and feel very free to discuss things they wouldn't dare discuss with a Thai Teacher. We also have students who dislike us....most of them dislike all their teacher.

The same is true with the Thai Teachers....some like, some don't...some don't care.

Different strokes for different folks.

[Artisi]

Possibly this is about some of the Thai teachers and some of the students "looking down" on the OP who has translated this to mean all Western teachers.

[PeaceBlondie]

We were respected farangs.

[Loaded]

The way Thais react to foreigners reflects the foreigner's behaviour towards Thais and their cultural conventions. Foreign teachers who make an effort to understand Thailand and make concessions to appropriate and respectful behaviour are regarded highly. That's my experience anyway. Westerners who demand to behave like westerners don't do so well.

[ArthurPewty]

The Thai teachers may be put out by the disparity in wages and they may also feel threatened by the perception that people from the 'west' are better educated. As for the students, well we all made fun of teachers at school.

[phetaroi]

Perhaps this will be edited out by the moderator...but there are two Thai education forums I peruse on an almost daily basis. This one and the one on ajarn.c. The folks here seem like a decent lot, for the most part. At the other forum...OMG...I read so many posts there that are an embarrassment to the education profession.

[Firelily]

At my school, if you do your job properly, cooperate, share and help out, Thai colleagues respect and support you. The lazy, unprepared, couldn't-care-less farangs get lots of remarks behind their backs, and the Thais make sure to pull the plug on them at every opportunity. The kids are very young, if you love them and listen to them, they love you and listen to you. I'm not sure what I would do with a bunch of mattayom kids, though. I guess I am very lucky.....

[PeaceBlondie]

Phetaroj, I've no need to edit those comments. And whilst I know Thailand ain't Abilene or Aberdeen, education has similarities everywhere.

[Ijustwannateach]

Some of the worst types of kids to teach here are the nouveaux riches who are the first in the family to be able to afford to go to private schools, etc. They feel like money means everything (it does to their parents, who substitute money for attention and love, generally), and their treatment of others reflects the treatment they learned to give people from their parents. Common approaches to perceived inferiors (usually framed in economic terms) are disdain, contempt, self-aggrandisement, and a very unfounded superiority complex.

It's an unpleasant and unlikeable demographic group, which will probably take several generations to salvage. I recommend going upmarket or downmarket.

Otherwise if it's just a few kids, then who cares? Not everyone will like you, in any school or situation. Everyone will have their own problems. No need to take it personally. The fact that we don't smack the living daylights out of them for bad behaviour as the Thai teachers would makes us better, not weaker, than those Thai teachers. The better students will realise this as they grow older.

[LaoPo]

".....I realised, that some Thai teachers, but also many students look down on western teachers, making stupid jokes, or worse..."

...( not knowing anything about teaching ) it's most likely an inferiority complex and lack of self esteem if Thai teachers and/or students look (or act) down upon western teachers.

It's the way around; it's an act to hide their frustration !

Men pen rai

LaoPo

[Phatcharanan]

"Having worked in different government school environments in Thailand, I realised, that

some Thai teachers, but also many students look down on western teachers, making stupid jokes, or worse, using swear words like 'iheeya', etc., when talking about native teachers. This applies to EPs as well as to regular school programmes. So, why bother, if the 'foreign devils' are no good, why waste money learning school subjects in English in the English programme?"

It has never been a problem for me at any school I have worked at.

This almost comes across as some issue that the OP has or puts across in general attitudes towards Thais.

[PeaceBlondie]

It has never been a problem for me at any school I have worked at.

This almost comes across as some issue that the OP has or puts across in general attitudes towards Thais.

Likewise - being government schools, they are an integral tool of the old conservative aristocracy - an institution that commands respect. I played the role.

[Scott]

I would say the problem is about the same as it was in every place I have ever worked, both in my home country and abroad. Some people just don't like other people--the reasons may vary, but the numbers seem to stay about the same.

[mssabai]

God I have been so lucky. My kids have always been fantastic...respectful, polite....from ages 4-15 (which is what I have taught so far). Yeah you get the odd joker when I say say "come here" trying to make a joke out of it...but I find the evil eye works very well in most situations.

Questions - do you dress appropriately? Are you well prepared and calm when you teach? Do you help out the Thai teachers when possible and get involved in extra-curricular events when they ask you to? Do you wai senior teachers? Do you act appropriately both in and outside of school? If you answer yes to all of these then I think you are unlucky. If you answer no to any of them then that could be your answer.

[elkangorito]

007 where are you?

I agree with many responses. It's not what you are...it's who you are.

In my opinion, Thai culture is all about servitude & therefore not good (I dislike it intensely except for the non-personality/non-moral bits).

Nonetheless, simple & common "respect" for your fellow man/woman is a trait that every human on the planet can utilise. It is cultureless, raceless & genderless when properly applied.

[BlackArtemis]

Those same kids are saying I/E Heeya about their Thai teachers too. Everyone has had a teacher they hated, sometimes we pick out the most obvious thing to rag on. IF the teacher we hate is over weight we might have said "stupid fat #%$!... We happen to be white, so that gets thrown into the insults. No matter what you will find people who you can not please. ignore them and work harder for the people who appreciate you.

[phetaroi]

I find the evil eye works very well in most situations.

Questions - do you dress appropriately? Are you well prepared and calm when you teach? Do you help out the Thai teachers when possible and get involved in extra-curricular events when they ask you to? Do you wai senior teachers? Do you act appropriately both in and outside of school? If you answer yes to all of these then I think you are unlucky. If you answer no to any of them then that could be your answer.

Ah...the evil I. I often used the "silent stare".

I hope the OP answers your questions. There are lots of farang here in Thailand that don't seem to really get the idea of living in a different culture.

[Scott]

Let's also remember that some of this has to do with the age of the students. I have noted that M1 (G7) students are really nice, about midway through M 2, they start getting head strong, by M3 they are down right surly or naughty. Then about half way through M4 they start to straighten out and by M6 they are rather pleasant young adults. A lot of individual variation in this scenario, but generally it goes something like that.

[Briggsy]

Possibly this is about some of the Thai teachers and some of the students "looking down" on the OP who has translated this to mean all Western teachers.

Indeed, the comment says more about the OP than the mixing of nationalities within the staffroom.

[mssabai]

I find the evil eye works very well in most situations.

Questions - do you dress appropriately? Are you well prepared and calm when you teach? Do you help out the Thai teachers when possible and get involved in extra-curricular events when they ask you to? Do you wai senior teachers? Do you act appropriately both in and outside of school? If you answer yes to all of these then I think you are unlucky. If you answer no to any of them then that could be your answer.

Ah...the evil I. I often used the "silent stare".

I hope the OP answers your questions. There are lots of farang here in Thailand that don't seem to really get the idea of living in a different culture.

It's quite amusing actually - as a petulant 15 year old teenage girl, my evil eye was the bane of my mum's life. And now it is coming in so useful!

[mssabai]

Let's also remember that some of this has to do with the age of the students. I have noted that M1 (G7) students are really nice, about midway through M 2, they start getting head strong, by M3 they are down right surly or naughty. Then about half way through M4 they start to straighten out and by M6 they are rather pleasant young adults. A lot of individual variation in this scenario, but generally it goes something like that.

Definitely noticing that with my M2s. They also seem to develop hormones sometime around September of their M2 year. Love is DEFINITELY in the air right now with my M2s. Be it with Korean pop stars, Twilight stars or the boy I force them to sit next to....

[Sisaketmike]

Let's take great care in this topic.

We have students who absolutely adore their Foreign Teachers. They come to us all the time and feel very free to discuss things they wouldn't dare discuss with a Thai Teacher. We also have students who dislike us....most of them dislike all their teacher.

The same is true with the Thai Teachers....some like, some don't...some don't care.

Different strokes for different folks.

I personally believe that they’ll like you, if you’re good to them. That’s for Thai colleagues as well as for students. I never had a bad experience with Thai students. Some Prathom one or two students just don’t show respect to anybody, that’s why the Thais are using their bamboo weapons……

A high school is much different, when the students realize that you’re familiar with their country and you’re showing the right behavior, I guess you’re more than welcome, also to the Thai staff.

[Sisaketmike]

The Thai teachers may be put out by the disparity in wages and they may also feel threatened by the perception that people from the 'west' are better educated. As for the students, well we all made fun of teachers at school.

Having worked in different government school environments in Thailand, I realised, that

some Thai teachers, but also many students look down on western teachers, making stupid jokes, or worse, using swear words like 'iheeya', etc., when talking about native teachers. This applies to EPs as well as to regular school programmes. So, why bother, if the 'foreign devils' are no good, why waste money learning school subjects in English in the English programme?

Sorry, but what do you mean with: “when talking about native teachers”? I guess most of them never taught a language before. I was a bad guy at high school; our Math teacher quit his job because of some students including me. Your post is so full of hate and I think students and Thai colleagues can feel that too. Is it possible that you’ve got the wrong job? They expect you to be a part in all school activities, also on weekends. Okay my dog eats bones, but///////><

[Mousehound]

Teaching is the toughest gig around - wherever you teach there are tough zones. I had a knife pulled on me on my first day - where I teach striking teachers is a fairly regular pastime and verbaling a teacher - well it is a very rare lesson that it doesn't happen! And this is in Australia and at a pretty average sort of school. We have regular lock downs and employ security staff every now and then. But for all that I have taaught there for ten years now and find you can get on top of things but it requires patience, strategy and a stubborn streak. If you head of department is not up to it and you don't have a buddy teacher life will be very tough indeed. NEVER GIVE UP! You nwill win over 99% of the kids and 90% of the staff but it takes time. Concentrate on low key strategies for behaviour, be consistent, draw the line in the sand and show that you will do anything to help the kids and if it doesn't work out you have tried your best.

[way2muchcoffee]

There are elements of truth in what the OP says. In my experience it is especially true at the wealthy private BKK schools. Teens are teens. Rich, spoiled teens often have a sense of entitlement due to their parents' wealth and place in society. They can be a challenge. Nevertheless, they are still Thai. They still believe that they should respect the teacher. And most will, most of the time, eventually. Thank goodness they do not act out violently, unlike students in many schools in the West.

Best advice is to simply show up, do a good job, be prepared for class, dress smart, keep your cool, be firm and generous, treat the students with respect, grade fairly, discipline with an even hand, and things will turn out well.

Edited December 14, 2009 by way2muchcoffee