Best Bang For Your Buck Hothatch/sports Car

[crs]

By the looks of it, hatchbacks aren't so common in Thailand - but you get the idea. Seems Thai made cars a far cheaper than any imported models - so are there and Thai made performance models? Cheers for any pointers, opinions. Have tried searching the forum/google but couldn't seem to find an easy answer... 

Edited December 1, 2009 by crs

[Skyline]

New or 2nd hand?

2nd hand my choice would be a DC2 Integra for around 500k.

[philipm]

for a hatchback, go for a civic eg 1992-1994 3door-hatchback.

throw away the std motor and tranmission,

swap the engine to a B16A/B16B-type r, B18C, K20A.

the std b16a produces 160hp sir1, sir2 is 170, type r b16b is 185hp 5speed manual.

the b18c is good for 185hp the type r motor for the b18c is 200hp 5speed manual.

the k20a from the integra type R dc5 is 220hp stock short 6speed gearbox.

there are plenty of b16a and b18c around, there is a very selected few k20a around.

ofcourse i have my source that has one if your intrested etc.

the reason to go for the hatchback, is the sheer weight. power to weight, Kills V8's.

[Skyline]

Phil.

Good choice on the EG

Just had a complete SiR interior and brake set on mine!

[crs]

Thanks for the replies, guys. If I was younger the modding ideas would get my interest up more. But I'm a lazy old git now... So was thinking standard and probably new - if that made sense. Integra is an interesting option though!

Also, I have no idea about modding and insurance issues in Thailand. Problems? Plus you need to either have the skills and resources yourself - or good contacts. I don't have either.

[eTiMaGo]

I'll be biased but.. Get a Yaris (or a Jazz, or Mazda2)

Might as well get something new, those other recommendations are awesome cars but getting a bit long in the tooth, might make maintenance a nightmare...

New cheap car + decent budget for power mods = win

[FlatOut]

Honda engines last forever, they just need regular oil changes. There's plenty of B16a1's with 250,000 MILES on the clock I know of.

I'm with Philipm. EG chassis but with a B20z (from the CRV) and a B16 head. 200bhp and 160lb/f torque.

[Skyline]

Here's a link to some available Integras:

http://www.one2car.com/SearchEngine/searchengine.aspx

If you decide on an older Honda EG/Teg I'd recommend Bear R Honda in Ramintra,years of experience in modifying Hondas and routine servicing.

[Skyline]

..Or if youre feeling flush and dont mind paying over the odds for a new car:

http://www.one2car.com/SearchEngine/searchengine.aspx

Civic Type R UK Spec...Very nice!

[losworld]

1999-2002 saab 9-3 turbo 5 spd top end 250 km great gas mileage luxury and storage

[philipm]

defentially if you decided to opt for the eg hatch, and get a b16a, its makes sense to change the bottom block from the std 1.6L to a 2.0L block from

the honda crv. it tremendously increases low/midrange torque, and gives a healthy 30-40hp ontop of the stock engine.

the b16a, from experince is one of the best little 1.6l engine you can find around. the DOCH Vtec was devloped by honda with MANY Winning awards for best engine in its class.

imagen a 8200rpm redline. from 6000-8200 vtec kicks in. by chaning the valve springs and gaskets the honda engine can take a mamoth 9-10000rpm.

the spoon civic has a 11-13000rpm

stock engine are safe to boost under 8psi with std internals too.

the dc5-Integra is beautiful, but they cost std from grey imports between 1.5-2.2million.

with that money a eg, would have more than enough options to run 8seconds 1/4mile haha.

it all in the end depends on what you want, if you want a nice std, great std preformer then the

dc5 is a perfect choice, it has a 220hp k20a engine with the short 6 speed gearbox.

But at the same time a honda EG hatchback with a K20a swap, ACTUALLY has better POWER TO WEIGHT ratio then the nissan skyline r32-r34 GTR, EVO, STI, SUPRA the bad boys of the japans performance cars.

Edited December 2, 2009 by philipm

[katabeachbum]

2010 VW Scirocco. 265 hp ABT, 6 speed dubbelclutch auto at 2,2 mill baht

[crs]

All the modded stuff got me dreaming for a sec - but nah, to dull and busy to get into all that lark nowadays. Good info though. So what about the modding and insurance, etc problems? Not a worry in Thailand or? As you'll know - have a prang in a modded car in UK when you've not told insurance company about mods and you're stufffed. And if you do tell them then crazy premiums. (I had a modded 350bhp Evo260 few years back.)

My original thought was, yep, something like a Civic Type R - but a model that's made in Thailand so mad import bump up to price is missed. Not after anything mental fast - as won't use it. Cleo 172/182 sort of thing - catch my drift? Fun but no hassle.

Eg. bikes (which is my other option). You can get a Kawaski E6n or r for @ 250k... If you want a 600 supersports you're looking at over double that. Now I like supersports but not that much to pay the extra. (I did good few days ride in the E6n and thought it was sound enough for Thai roads.) The E6 's are made in Thailand - the supersports aren't. Hence the cheapness because no import extra...

So, I was wondering if there's similar when it comes to cars. Hope you follow my thinking.

[katabeachbum]

All the modded stuff got me dreaming for a sec - but nah, to dull and busy to get into all that lark nowadays. Good info though. So what about the modding and insurance, etc problems? Not a worry in Thailand or? As you'll know - have a prang in a modded car in UK when you've not told insurance company about mods and you're stufffed. And if you do tell them then crazy premiums. (I had a modded 350bhp Evo260 few years back.)

My original thought was, yep, something like a Civic Type R - but a model that's made in Thailand so mad import bump up to price is missed. Not after anything mental fast - as won't use it. Cleo 172/182 sort of thing - catch my drift? Fun but no hassle.

Eg. bikes (which is my other option). You can get a Kawaski E6n or r for @ 250k... If you want a 600 supersports you're looking at over double that. Now I like supersports but not that much to pay the extra. (I did good few days ride in the E6n and thought it was sound enough for Thai roads.) The E6 's are made in Thailand - the supersports aren't. Hence the cheapness because no import extra...

So, I was wondering if there's similar when it comes to cars. Hope you follow my thinking.

Sorry, no, there isnt. Only massmarket cars made here, most of them with dated or detuned engines to cope with lousy fuel. No hatch with more than 145 hp (Ford Focus) or Civic with 155 hp.

More exciting cars are available imported at a price. Scirocco is subsidised by VW here, so price isnt that bad. Still its a million over my car/bike budget.

My solution, within a budget, is a made in LOS Kawasaki Ninja 650R doing 0-100 kmh in 4 sec. 6 speed and 120 kmh on 2nd gear. at 260k baht.

and a 4 door 3,0 diesel pickup.

Mods and insurance seems to be no problem. Normally they want to inspect the vehicle before insuring it, but never turned down cause mods.

Edited December 2, 2009 by katabeachbum

[VocalNeal]

Thanks for the replies, guys. If I was younger the modding ideas would get my interest up more. But I'm a lazy old git now...

Me too.

Focus TDCI Sport just over 1mil. get a chip (125 GBP) and you have about 170hp and "enough' torque. You won't win the traffic light GP but have a fast tourer. Economy not bad either.

Vios with a supercharger? About 150 hp. Place on RamaII somewhere. Blitz or Gready Kit. I think there is one now for Yaris.

I like the Saab idea. Now if i could find a 99 Turbo.

If you have an obvious hot hatch some <deleted> always wants to race you. Usually they do a kamikaze pass and then turn down a side street so you can't retake them.

[katabeachbum]

Thanks for the replies, guys. If I was younger the modding ideas would get my interest up more. But I'm a lazy old git now...

Me too.

Focus TDCI Sport just over 1mil. get a chip (125 GBP) and you have about 170hp and "enough' torque. You won't win the traffic light GP but have a fast tourer. Economy not bad either.

Vios with a supercharger? About 150 hp. Place on RamaII somewhere. Blitz or Gready Kit. I think there is one now for Yaris.

I like the Saab idea. Now if i could find a 99 Turbo.

If you have an obvious hot hatch some <deleted> always wants to race you. Usually they do a kamikaze pass and then turn down a side street so you can't retake them.

I really like the diesel in Focus, Mondeo and Volvo, but its not a hot engine. Its slow 0-50 strong 50-140 but never hot.

Vios and Yaris with aftermarket turbo requires a manual gearbox. Those are only available in the cheap models. Besides 145 hp doenst make them hot. only drivable

Thers also a compressor kit available for Jazz, but again manual gear is required and only available in base model. and again 150 hp isnt really hot.

Edited December 2, 2009 by katabeachbum

[culicine]

I'd go for this - k20 swap into a new civic:) http://www.one2car.com/CarInfor/cardetails...90502&row=2

For a similar price there are some older wrx's for sale on that page.

Or as mentioned the focus tdci with a chip should be quicker than most other mass market cars here.

Edited December 2, 2009 by culicine

[crs]

Thanks guys - last 2 ideas sound more like it. Cheers.

[stingray]

for a hatchback, go for a civic eg 1992-1994 3door-hatchback.

throw away the std motor and tranmission,

swap the engine to a B16A/B16B-type r, B18C, K20A.

the std b16a produces 160hp sir1, sir2 is 170, type r b16b is 185hp 5speed manual.

the b18c is good for 185hp the type r motor for the b18c is 200hp 5speed manual.

the k20a from the integra type R dc5 is 220hp stock short 6speed gearbox.

there are plenty of b16a and b18c around, there is a very selected few k20a around.

ofcourse i have my source that has one if your intrested etc.

the reason to go for the hatchback, is the sheer weight. power to weight, Kills V8's.

They can't kill a V8, how???

If you talk about horsepower you have to mesure on the rear or front axle as they use to do in Germany, "DIN HP", not "SAE HP". So a 4 banger Japs engine wich they say has 180hp, has maybe only 120 "real" horsepower on the wheels and what you DON"T get with a 4 banger is TORQUE.

[VocalNeal]

Besides 145 hp doenst make them hot. only drivable

Must be age. How hot is hot.

My 1986 Omni GLH Turbo only had 145hp but 0-60mph was about 7.0 secs. That's hot enough for road use, at least for me.

I'm sure after a few beers I could talk it down to high six's. Need GLHS 175hp to get 6.5.

After thought.

Ford were offering 0% financing to expats not sure if still available. Ford on 62.

Edited December 2, 2009 by VocalNeal

[stingray]

Besides 145 hp doenst make them hot. only drivable

Must be age. How hot is hot.

My 1986 Omni GLH Turbo only had 145hp but 0-60mph was about 7.0 secs. That's hot enough for road use, at least for me.

After thought.

Ford were offering 0% financing to expats not sure if still available. Ford on 62.

[katabeachbum]

Besides 145 hp doenst make them hot. only drivable

Must be age. How hot is hot.

My 1986 Omni GLH Turbo only had 145hp but 0-60mph was about 7.0 secs. That's hot enough for road use, at least for me.

After thought.

Ford were offering 0% financing to expats not sure if still available. Ford on 62.

yaris/vios turbo 145 hp manages 0-100 kmh in 9 secs. Same as my pickup 4x4 diesel auto

Ford is still offering Focus 25% down and 0% on 48 months at every dealer, but not for diesel. Only way Focus can compete with japs in LOS.

[stingray]

Besides 145 hp doenst make them hot. only drivable

Must be age. How hot is hot.

My 1986 Omni GLH Turbo only had 145hp but 0-60mph was about 7.0 secs. That's hot enough for road use, at least for me.

After thought.

Ford were offering 0% financing to expats not sure if still available. Ford on 62.

They always talking and if you realy want to go for the zero % than they require so manything that you 100% will not pass their requirements. They offered Toyota vioses with 5% down, about a year ago. After long discusts and finance checking over several weeks it was not passed, when i bought one i still have to pay 20% down. It's al marketing to catch customers until they are in theyr showrooms. It's similar with the internet conections they say about 10 megabite, but you arent't really enable to watch a dam You Tube Video without stucking.

[katabeachbum]

If you talk about horsepower you have to mesure on the rear or front axle as they use to do in Germany, "DIN HP", not "SAE HP". So a 4 banger Japs engine wich they say has 180hp, has maybe only 120 "real" horsepower on the wheels and what you DON"T get with a 4 banger is TORQUE.

Hp DIN is not measured on the wheels, still on engine before transmission. With waterpumps, alternator, fans etc. Hp SAE is without these. Normally 3-6 hp difference.

Measuring on the wheels is normally 25-35% lost. This is often called dyno hp.

All German car manufactorers use KW = Hp DIN, mesured on engine, not wheels. Power on wheels depends on clutch, auto or manual, front/rear/four-wheeldrive etc.

There are plenty of 4 pots with more tourque than 5,0 liters V8. Mention Audi 2,0 direct injection, Saab 2,3, Merc Benz 1,8 kompressor, Lancia 2,0, VW 2,0 Gti,

4 pot diesel almost all have more tourque than 5,0 V8. I like V8, and I loved my V10 Excursion 2000 model, but modern tec has improved.

[philipm]

just to add to the example,

i also have a mate with a moded subi sti, hes pushing 900NM of torque, and 700hp.

there is also full moded drag evo i know the owner, he is pushing 1052hp and 1000nm of torque.

it is purely power to weight, take a 160hp 2ton merc, compared to a 160hp sir1 950kg civic eg hatch.

now look at the drags,

the quickest cars arnt 2ton beasts, they are tubed frame light weight, spaceframe pushing about 500-700kg.

best example, Australia famous Rx3 rotary drag cars, they are pushing on average 450-600hp. believe it or not

they pull the quater 1/4mile in amazing 8-7seconds. that defentially cant be compared to a

bugatti veyron which produces 3000hp, which 2000hp is loss through the 10radiators and gearboxs, with a final 1001hp

pushing 1888kg will do the best quater mile about 10.5.

Edited December 2, 2009 by philipm

[Donnyboy]

any Smart Hayabusas here? Ultimate power to weight

check out it out on youtube

[Pdaz]

Well I was after something similar.. Small hatch, two doors, manual box, tuning potential and cheap.

Looked for something decent second hand but all the usual suspects like Integra, civic hatch or mk1/2 golfs are either very hard to find or have been buggered by a Thai teen.. Either badly modded or driven to death with no maintenance.

So while I'm in the process of locating a project car to restore and rebuild I bought this...

It's a Proton Neo CPS

It's a little heavy but has other attributes that make it pretty good..

Wide track, short wheelbase, VVT 1600cc twincam, variable intake length, ABS and TWO airbags..

The motor makes a claimed 125hp and custom shops in malaysia say it's easily modded to 150hp (or more if I wish to strip the engine down)

I wasn't to sure how it was gonna be ( It's a Proton after all ) But now after 2 Months I can honestly say I'm well pleased.. It handles great ( will be better once new coilovers are fitted )

and goes well once the VVT shifts to the performance profile.. It's no WRX off the line but the speed thru the the corners makes up for that..

At 650k I reckon it's great value..... Not worried about depreciation or resale as it is unusual enough to be saleable in a few years time for a fair sum once I've had my fun.

Still can't belive that other manufactures aren't selling two door 'sporty' hatchbacks to young yuppie type thais.. They wouldn't need to be high powered just sporty looking and cool..

[stingray]

Well I was after something similar.. Small hatch, two doors, manual box, tuning potential and cheap.

Looked for something decent second hand but all the usual suspects like Integra, civic hatch or mk1/2 golfs are either very hard to find or have been buggered by a Thai teen.. Either badly modded or driven to death with no maintenance.

So while I'm in the process of locating a project car to restore and rebuild I bought this...

It's a Proton Neo CPS

It's a little heavy but has other attributes that make it pretty good..

Wide track, short wheelbase, VVT 1600cc twincam, variable intake length, ABS and TWO airbags..

The motor makes a claimed 125hp and custom shops in malaysia say it's easily modded to 150hp (or more if I wish to strip the engine down)

I wasn't to sure how it was gonna be ( It's a Proton after all ) But now after 2 Months I can honestly say I'm well pleased.. It handles great ( will be better once new coilovers are fitted )

and goes well once the VVT shifts to the performance profile.. It's no WRX off the line but the speed thru the the corners makes up for that..

At 650k I reckon it's great value..... Not worried about depreciation or resale as it is unusual enough to be saleable in a few years time for a fair sum once I've had my fun.

Still can't belive that other manufactures aren't selling two door 'sporty' hatchbacks to young yuppie type thais.. They wouldn't need to be high powered just sporty looking and cool..

With the exeption of the ugly rear spolier, the car looks cool and drives very nice. I like it much more than any japanese cars in the same pricerange. and the Neo got nice alloy wheels, sporty exhoust unlike basic vios, where you have to buy everything extra.

[stingray]

If you talk about horsepower you have to mesure on the rear or front axle as they use to do in Germany, "DIN HP", not "SAE HP". So a 4 banger Japs engine wich they say has 180hp, has maybe only 120 "real" horsepower on the wheels and what you DON"T get with a 4 banger is TORQUE.

Hp DIN is not measured on the wheels, still on engine before transmission. With waterpumps, alternator, fans etc. Hp SAE is without these. Normally 3-6 hp difference.

Measuring on the wheels is normally 25-35% lost. This is often called dyno hp.

All German car manufactorers use KW = Hp DIN, mesured on engine, not wheels. Power on wheels depends on clutch, auto or manual, front/rear/four-wheeldrive etc.

There are plenty of 4 pots with more tourque than 5,0 liters V8. Mention Audi 2,0 direct injection, Saab 2,3, Merc Benz 1,8 kompressor, Lancia 2,0, VW 2,0 Gti,

4 pot diesel almost all have more tourque than 5,0 V8. I like V8, and I loved my V10 Excursion 2000 model, but modern tec has improved.

Yes, the diesels are improvet in the last few years, but they put all things on it to make it fast, like turbo intercooler, etc. A standart diesel will not run. There are different V8 engines. You can't take a early 80 low powerred green "Jimmy Catrer" Engine with a shitty 140hp. Use a 1970 440 Magnum or 455 SD or HO or a LT1 engine, than if it's not enought, you put a compressor on it and forget a 4 banger. Most of 4 bangers comes with turbo intercoler and what ever. So have to be fair and put a compressor on a 1970 engine with a six pack, headres, ported heads, lifters and the right cam and you'll suprise what you get. Today it's noit even necessary, every Factory Corvette has already over 400hp (no comressor and no intercooler). But anyway, the now increasing sozialism Goverment in the US will kill all this toys. In a few years we get pushed worldwide to drive only electric "Obamobiles". What a nice world we going into.

[mortenaa]

2010 VW Scirocco. 265 hp ABT, 6 speed dubbelclutch auto at 2,2 mill baht

According to the website, the Scirocco has 200hp... Where did the 265 come from?