Pattaya Ambulance Service

[denboy]

As a long term retiree here I carry my Bangko/pattay hospital card when out and about, hopefully if ever needed someone will find and call their ambulance.

Just general observation like today during that sad and unfortunate accident at Bali Hi pier area. There appeared to be a race between the volunteer pick-up trucks and ambualnces from different hospitals heading in that direction.

Is there a protocol where the police have a tie up with different organisations or is just pot luck who gets the news first.

The hospital ambulance service I know that you have to pay for, what about the volunteer pick-up medics, do they charge for their service or is it all vouluntary contributions.

If you dial this famous pattaya telephone 1337, do they orgnise emergency services?. There are just to many individual numbers to remember for differrent hospitals, police, traffic police, fire service etc.

It would be good to know how it works as you ever know what's around the corner.

Cheers

[TheWalkingMan]

I always heard that whoever delivers the victim to a predetermined hospital receives a commission from said hospital. This is horrible as the victims should be transported to the nearest available hospital. But the baht has an all-powerful pull so for the victims it is a crap shoot.

TheWalkingMan

[monty]

All those volunteer ambulances have police radio scanners, so the moment they hear something on the radio they will race to the scene.

Not sure how it works, the commision thing has been mentioned, and also it i often reported that things like gold, cash and other valuables tend to go missing easily after an accident...

Bangkok Hospital has an ambulance call number (1719) but I have found them to be utterly useless.

Called them once after a customer with known cardiac problems collapsed in my place after sudden chest pains, and the only thing they kept doing was ask questions and more questions, although I clearly stated on the phone that we might have a case of a cardiac infarct. Had to give the phone to a staff member as I wanted to make sure he didn't go in cardiac arrest. She had no idea of what exactly (medically) was going on so they just hung up on her!!!

Normal procedure where there is only the slightest possibility of any hart problems would be to dispatch the EMS ambulance ASAP.

Had to bring him to hospital our self where they then proceeded with all proper tests (ECG etc...)

[hansnl]

Dont't know about Bangkok or Pattaya, and (touch wood) personally never needed any "medicalexpress service".

However, in Khon Kaen we use the number 1669 for EMS, and an ambulance will arrive shortly, either from the state hospital, the university hospital or one of the private hospitals.

And the nice thing is, if there is someone to tell them, they will bring you to any hospital you want.

Of course, the private hospital ambulances try to bring you to their homebase, understandable.

The cowboy community, the pickup freelancers, also tend to fly in the general direction of the phone call, but if you ask for a hospital ambulance, that will appear.

[farangpattaya]

A few years ago, there was a condo-fire along Soi 17 off 3rd road.

For about 15 minutes the surrounding area was a huge cacaphony of alarms and sirens.

Usually I don't respond to this kind of action, but I got almost hit by a "Rescue" pick up, so I decided to move to the cause of the event.

Entering Soi 17 from 3rd, the Rescue pick ups were lined up, along with some fire-trucks. The traffic was absolutely stuck and even motorbikes couldn't pass.

I counted approx. 35-40 "rescue" pick ups, 5 or 6 fire trucks and some police cars.

I couldn't get very vlose to the source, but it seemed to be 'just' a small fire in one of the condo's.

My point: there are a lot of people who are williing to drag you wherever.

[foxxx]

there are hospital comissions and they do steal from victms (from a thai source who used to do rescues). comissions vary and i'm not sure how much they are.

but like anything here, there's a fraction that do it out of their kindness, the rest are doing it to make extra money on the side and to look cool in their pick up.

[cfrmatt]

I always heard that whoever delivers the victim to a predetermined hospital receives a commission from said hospital. This is horrible as the victims should be transported to the nearest available hospital. But the baht has an all-powerful pull so for the victims it is a crap shoot.

TheWalkingMan

I am amazed to hear such rubbish as regards to rescue cars receiving commission from hospitals and even stealing from victims they pick up. I am a medic here in the uk and have personally trained and worked with the guys on the rescue cars in Pattaya city. I can assure you that this does not happen. I have seen many times then tourist have been picked up by the rescue cars and tourist have offered money to the guys on the cars and they have always turned it down. They also always offer the choose of which hospital the patient wishes to go to, they also inform the patient that if they do not have medical insurance then they would be better to go to the local government hospital so then they will not end up with a large medical bill. These guys do a great job free of charge. Why is it that so many people think Thai’s are just after money...A lot do have big hearts you know..Keep up the great work guys.

[Basil B]

It is scary, seems anyone with a police scanner and pick up truck can set themselves up as an ambulance service with no medical experience or training just for the chance of a lucrative commission (and/or a bulging wallet and expensive watch).

[aussiechick]

Basil B - where do you get your ideas from? The volunteer rescue service is exactly what it says it is! These guys give up their time to assist at all sorts of accidents. You will also see the motor cycle drivers with radios to call in if they see an accident that requires help. I know the volunteer service used to be set up in the old Tourist Police Building on 2nd Road and I would assume the volunteer service is in the new building.

I have also heard all the rumours from commissions, theft, driving the person slowly towards the hospital so they die on the way (don't know what that is all about). They are trained and they do it from the heart - yes, before you jump in I am sure there are some that do it for a "reward" but please don't take it away from all the good workers. You may need them one day.

[Basil B]

Basil B - where do you get your ideas from? The volunteer rescue service is exactly what it says it is! These guys give up their time to assist at all sorts of accidents. You will also see the motor cycle drivers with radios to call in if they see an accident that requires help. I know the volunteer service used to be set up in the old Tourist Police Building on 2nd Road and I would assume the volunteer service is in the new building.

I have also heard all the rumours from commissions, theft, driving the person slowly towards the hospital so they die on the way (don't know what that is all about). They are trained and they do it from the heart - yes, before you jump in I am sure there are some that do it for a "reward" but please don't take it away from all the good workers. You may need them one day.

If you read my post, I did not say every pick-up truck turning up was going to, just there was nothing to stop them.

My comments are based on:

• Reports of victims arriving at hospital/mortuary minus personal possessions (watches, jewellery, wallets, etc), thought reports in recent years are not so frequent.
  
• Reports of territorial wars by ambulance groups.
  
• Reports of casualties being taken to the hospital that pays the best, not the nearest or most appropriate for the casualties needs.
  
• Reports of many ambulances (so called ambulances) turning up and other incidents none.
  

My criticism is that although much has improved over the many years I have visited Thailand, but as far as I know there is no:

• coordinated system of dispatching ambulances to incidents
  
• reliable form of communications
  
• professional municipal service
  
• well coordinated, disciplined, equipped and trained volunteer service
  

and as far as I know there is nothing to stop anyone doing as I described in my previous post.

Edited February 6, 2010 by Basil B

[Rimmer]

None sense post deleted

[gk10002000]

None sense post deleted

Sadly, this reminds me of the movie: "Mother Jugs and Speed". Kind of the shady side of ambulance services.

[ChrisNW1]

I am based in the UK although we spend all our holidays in Thailand (thai partner). We are planning to move to Khon Kaen as family etc all live in the area. As someone also in the medic services, I am intrigued as to how these 'rescue' services operate. I have heard from very good to very bad....

My question is: is there anyone here from Khon Kaen who is involved with the rescue service(s) in the area? I woul dlike to meet up and discuss what you do, how you do it, your training etc . . . . with the call from the govt for a regulated ambulance service (will this happen? I dont know as it has been talked about for ages now) I would like to do some work with you guys when I am over here...

Hope to hear back soon

Chris

I always heard that whoever delivers the victim to a predetermined hospital receives a commission from said hospital. This is horrible as the victims should be transported to the nearest available hospital. But the baht has an all-powerful pull so for the victims it is a crap shoot.

TheWalkingMan

I am amazed to hear such rubbish as regards to rescue cars receiving commission from hospitals and even stealing from victims they pick up. I am a medic here in the uk and have personally trained and worked with the guys on the rescue cars in Pattaya city. I can assure you that this does not happen. I have seen many times then tourist have been picked up by the rescue cars and tourist have offered money to the guys on the cars and they have always turned it down. They also always offer the choose of which hospital the patient wishes to go to, they also inform the patient that if they do not have medical insurance then they would be better to go to the local government hospital so then they will not end up with a large medical bill. These guys do a great job free of charge. Why is it that so many people think Thai's are just after money...A lot do have big hearts you know..Keep up the great work guys.

[farangpattaya]

Why is it that so many people think Thai's are just after money...A lot do have big hearts you know..Keep up the great work guys.

Let's put it in another way: "A lot op people think that a lot of Thais are just after the money and yes a lot of them have big hearts."

But Chris, please tell me...........where can I recover the 39-baht slippers, the wallet and the cell-phone from my friend, who went missing after he got involved in an accident and was lying on the asphalt in a coma? Police maybe, by-standers, good-doers?

[gerry53]

[

TheWalkingMan

I am amazed to hear such rubbish as regards to rescue cars receiving commission from hospitals and even stealing from victims they pick up. I am a medic here in the uk and have personally trained and worked with the guys on the rescue cars in Pattaya city. I can assure you that this does not happen. I have seen many times then tourist have been picked up by the rescue cars and tourist have offered money to the guys on the cars and they have always turned it down. They also always offer the choose of which hospital the patient wishes to go to, they also inform the patient that if they do not have medical insurance then they would be better to go to the local government hospital so then they will not end up with a large medical bill. These guys do a great job free of charge. Why is it that so many people think Thai's are just after money...A lot do have big hearts you know..Keep up the great work guys.

As a life long career medic from a western country I don't like to like to criticise local services but on some accidents I have witnessed it would cause any western medic to lose their licensing.

These responders were from local Rescue Crews who responded in open pickup trucks not regular ambulances. One high speed multi motor vehicle accident had the crews taking semi concious victims and placing them in the back of open trucks to drive to the hospital, no spinal assessment, no C collars or spine boards - a true grab and run. Another in Jomtien was a motorcycle - baht bus collision where the bike driver had head injuries and was semi concious. To stop the head bleeding they dressed the wounds then proceeded to use roller bandage and encircled the throat to secure them! This resulted in another load and go in the back of an open truck with no spinal precautions taken. I decided right then it was not in my best interests to get into any accidents while living here! I don't doubt WalkingMan has trained some local crews but sometimes you have to call them "as you see them". I will admit the pre hospital care in some of Thailands nieghbouring countries is much worse than here as i have donated supplies to them.

As far as financial commissions, thefts or patient routing problems I have not heard of any negative experiences personally. It would be a great asset to the community if Thai officials got a coordinated central response center to increase efficencies not only for the accidents but for non traumatic emergencies experienced by an aging expat population as well. My 2 cents worth.

[svuppe]

Hey Guys..

I stumble upon this debate. And I must add.

I´m a bit interested in the prehospital service area and I have done a bit of research on that toppic allready, thats why I respond.

I´m a Paramedic of profession in Denmark and been in the prehospitalservice for 15 years.

I can not cover all of the volunteers in Thailand, but the ones I have interview and have seen, are well equipt what inline stabilisation was concerned. In Bangkok the volunteers from BFA and Ruamkantanyu foundation all had spineboard, collars, vaccum splints and KED (Vest for spinalstabilisation). The had also oxygen, ventilationbags, oralairways and bandages offcourse. Their ambulances was pickups though.

There are three parts in the prehospital service sector.

The volunteeres, wich are some kind of cherity organization, that runs one public donation and the voulenteers own money. Now a days these people, have to have a 24 hours instruction before the can proceed. This involve Basic first aid and CPR and how to use the equipment. These organizations does a lot of other work, than the ambulance. F.ex. rescueservice (fire, wather etc.) katastrofic relief (floodings etc.) Many of these guys you see in those pick-ups probely help handling the dead people of the Tsunami in 2004

Though I can not say that there are some out there that does this for just looking cool. And I´m sad to hear the stories of inadequate assessment, the have been describet from Pattaya.

But the Thais come from a tradition of helping eachother and do good, so the majority of these guys does it from there heart.

Them getting money from hospitals. Can not say some do, cause I don´t know. But if the take a patient to a hospital that are good and they get a bit on the side for that, IF IT NOT PUTS THE PATIENT AT RISK, I can not see why not, they pay everything themself. Remember please..not always the closest hospital is the best for the patient. Patient may need treatment that the nearest hospital can not provide.

These vouleenteres seldom respond to medical patients, but respond to trauma.

The goverment and the hospitals

This are the ambulances you normally see as an ambulance. They have EMTs and sometimes nurses or doctors. The respond to medicalpatients in their area and to trauma if there is need for Advance Life Support. When these ambulances arrive on scene, their in charge and transports the patient.

They respond on calls from 1669, that is the police emergency dispatch, and the police will call them out. Many of these medical calls do not go out to the vouleenteres because it´s not on the radiosystem, they are scanning.

I did an two hour inteview with ruamkantanyu they had no accidents on their 7 radios, but in that 2 hours we saw three ambulances from the nearby hospital, on route to some emergency, with light and sirens.

Two times in Khon Kaen I´ve witness accidents with motorcycles, and both time came a grey pick-up from one charityorg. and made the scene safe with cones and stuff and made basic firstaid (like five guys in one pick-up) and anotherone white came with spineboard and collars. For those two small accidents if was more than enough. But to larger events, there will be a need for more advance treatment, like IV, Medicine etc. and that they voulenteers not good enough for yet.

Allready in 1997 the bureau of health policy and the ministry of public health was aware of the prehospital system is inadequate. The new masterplan from 2010 is still saying it is inadequate, and suggest that a effective ems system is established they could save the life of 9,000 to 12,000 patients annually.

So it´s not the best system in the world the have, but they do have one. Robbers and thiefs, not what I have seen, that they eksist can not say either. But I know some one who was pickpocket on the baht bus in Pattaya, so it´s everywehere ;-)

But for sure, I´m not affraid to call 1669 and I´m in the buisness

[Phil Conners]

But the Thais come from a tradition of helping eachother and do good, so the majority of these guys does it from there heart.

Them getting money from hospitals. Can not say some do, cause I don´t know. But if the take a patient to a hospital that are good and they get a bit on the side for that, IF IT NOT PUTS THE PATIENT AT RISK, I can not see why not, they pay everything themself. Remember please..not always the closest hospital is the best for the patient. Patient may need treatment that the nearest hospital can not provide.

I don't know what it's like in Bangkok but I would not be surprised if they had a good system of ambulances. But this is the Pattaya forum and we talk about Pattaya here.

As you will have read earlier in this thead, it is reported that the "ambulances" (pickup trucks) often bring foreigners to the most expensive hospital because they pay the highest kickback for the delivery, however, if it turns out the foreigner does not have the immediate financial means to pay for the treatment they are reportedly rejected and have to find their way to the government hospital somehow. Injuries included. This is what so many are complaining about. For accidents any hospital should do what they can to stabilize the patient, regardless of the financial situation.

Edited December 11, 2010 by Phil Conners

[dogtim]

But the Thais come from a tradition of helping eachother and do good, so the majority of these guys does it from there heart.

Them getting money from hospitals. Can not say some do, cause I don´t know. But if the take a patient to a hospital that are good and they get a bit on the side for that, IF IT NOT PUTS THE PATIENT AT RISK, I can not see why not, they pay everything themself. Remember please..not always the closest hospital is the best for the patient. Patient may need treatment that the nearest hospital can not provide.

I don't know what it's like in Bangkok but I would not be surprised if they had a good system of ambulances. But this is the Pattaya forum and we talk about Pattaya here.

As you will have read earlier in this thead, it is reported that the "ambulances" (pickup trucks) often bring foreigners to the most expensive hospital because they pay the highest kickback for the delivery, however, if it turns out the foreigner does not have the immediate financial means to pay for the treatment they are reportedly rejected and have to find their way to the government hospital somehow. Injuries included. This is what so many are complaining about. For accidents any hospital should do what they can to stabilize the patient, regardless of the financial situation.

I am replying to this thread on behalf of a close friend, John Williams, who for some reason is unable to post on this forum. I enclose his statement.

I am a serving Volunteer for the 'Pattaya Ambulance Service', I have lived in Pattaya for seventeen years and since retiring from business I have been an Emergency Medical responder at the second busiest unit for about four years. I have read all the speculation on how it operates and what training is given or what money is earned from hospitals. I think it is about time the record is set straight by someone actually involved.

The service you refer to, is the Rescue Service funded in Pattaya by the Sawang Borriboon Foundation based in Naklua, from donations but no government funding. It is manned by unpaid volunteers using their own vehicles and money. Most have day or night jobs and work as volunteers in their own time. The service has four fully equipped Ambulances and many Rescue Trucks all equipped with basic life saving equipment (spineboard, splints, oxygen, fire extinguishers, medical kit etc). All the Volunteers carry numbered photo cards and generally wear blue and gold uniforms (supplied at their own expence), and have attended Medic First Aid or First Responder courses at the various Pattaya hospitals, burns management couses and fire management courses at the local Fire Station. On passing the examinations they are qualified by the Chonburi Department of the Emergency Medical Institute of Thailand who oversee and control all matters pertaining. All vehicles are checked and licenced by the Police, Banglamung Hospital and Chonburi HQ.

The freephone number 1669 works all over Thailand and is connected to the nearest Control Base. In the case of Pattaya, that is Chonburi, who then pass the call to the local HQ or Hospital who then call for Responders from the nearest Base Unit or Watch (of which there are thirty in number) covering our area.

All the Rescue Units are connected by a dedicated Government channel, and are not connected to any Police channel.

These Responders are sent to any call for help...be it a medical emergency in the home, a road accident, any other accident, gun shot trauma, a fire, and I have even been sent on many occasions to remove snakes from dwelling houses and release them back into the wild.

The Rescue Service is almost always the first to arrive at any incident, usually informing Police or Fire if required. These Responders do not differentiate betwwen Thai and Farang, and I guess 35% of the incidents I have attended have been Farangs in road accidents, sick in bars or their condos, or having died. Unless a patient requests a particular Hospital,( i.e. with insurance) , then all patients are taken to Banglamung Government funded Hospital, unless the patient requires more urgent attention, then they are taken to the nearest Hospital, Pattaya Memorial or Bangkok Pattaya. Both of which are privately funded. All Hospitals in Thailand the patient is expected to pay. Each private Hospital has its own Ambulance service which can be quite expensive to call out. The Sawang Borriboon Service is FREE to ALL. There is no money kicked back by the Hospital to the Rescuers but all the Hospitals make a very small donation on most cases they deal with.

All Hospitals are bound by the Duty of Care and will stabilise the patient but if it transpires they cannot pay for further treatment, i.e. uninsured, they will transfer the patient to a Government funded Hospital but he will still have to pay something.

This only underlines for all Farangs In Thailand to be properly insured. Sickness or accident In Thailand can be very expensive!

If you are the one who doesn't believe this article, and God forbid you are lying in the street on some dark and rainy evening, when the Rescue Truck arrives to look after you...don't offer money, just say THANKS!

[svuppe]

I don't know what it's like in Bangkok but I would not be surprised if they had a good system of ambulances. But this is the Pattaya forum and we talk about Pattaya here.

As you will have read earlier in this thead, it is reported that the "ambulances" (pickup trucks) often bring foreigners to the most expensive hospital because they pay the highest kickback for the delivery, however, if it turns out the foreigner does not have the immediate financial means to pay for the treatment they are reportedly rejected and have to find their way to the government hospital somehow. Injuries included. This is what so many are complaining about. For accidents any hospital should do what they can to stabilize the patient, regardless of the financial situation.

Then why does some people in here generalize when the talk write about the Thai ambulances? Where do you get your information from? Reliable sources or just mouth to mouth talk? My information was on the system in general and about wich number to call.( in general includes Pattaya) The EXAMPELS given was on to other places than Pattaya, but hey thats why it´s an example:)

But to reassure you. The National Emergency Medical Services Master Plan 2010-2012 involves a standart nationwide ambulance service, so that you can get high quality pre-hospital medical service, where ever you are in Thailand. This is nationwide, so I think it´s ok to put that under the "Pattaya forum" ;o)

Regards