The Condominium Act And Definition Of A Condominium In Thailand

[pkrv]

Ahh I have an answer to the Foreign Exchange Transaction Form, There was a hiccup with the developer of my condominium I think they simply forgot to sent it to me or I may not have understood the significance of an email and quite frankly I am not going to go back to check, in my case there is no need.

Some KEY features here: We are all in very different positions. I bought off the plan back in 2005.

This meant that I paid in instalments.

Many of these were less than 20,000 USD

This meant they were not added to the 'final overall cost of the condominium'

I now have a scan of my own FET but this is just for the final instalment which came it at over 20,000 USD.

I only get a photocopy/scan of the FET. The original is held at Thailand’s land registration authority. Basically because I am dealing with Hemaraj, a .SETI 30 company. I am pretty dam sure this information is correct; these guys are on the ball.

Very confusing, and believe you me buying off the plan in Thailand you need all the help you can get! Not that I regret it one bit!

Apologies I will do a double post to another thread.

[pkrv]

Stupid of me I should have given the link (more homework )

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Foreign-Exch...rm-t164242.html

[pkrv]

In grouping this information together there has been an excellent thread on purchasing a condominium with onshore (Thai funds). But also there is some excellent advice from Trajan on the taxes that are applied when comming to sell.

Link here

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Cash-Condo-t340087.html

[pkrv]

An important thread on voting rights within a condominium.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Condo-Voting...-C-t342577.html

[ChiangMaiFun]

What about changing Common Area use? does it reuire 50% of ALL owners? same with changing from Commercial to Residential? 50% of ALL owners? or a simple majority of those that vote? any help please?

[pkrv]

ChiangMaiFun's question on changing common area use are answered on his independent thread - IMO not mainstream stuff but it does have some implications.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Change-Commo...ge-t359269.html

[pkrv]

Condominium Alert: Moderate level and area dependent.

IMO an important point has come out of the voting rights within a condominium thread.

I can request this post to be removed if the information proves to be incorrect.

This post is to draw your attention to the potential implications of leasehold units within a condominium and their impact on freehold held units.

Because of the 49/51% rule it appears that some developers particularly in Patthaya and Phuket struggle to sell the Thai 51% quota of units. As a result they may choose to lease these units out (effectively charging 30 years rent up front).

If the developer sells a large proportion of leases they will in fact control a large block of voting rights within the condominium. This has obvious disadvantages because they can control the service companies that are appointed and fees charged/services provided.

IMO it is prudent to establish the number of leasehold units in a condominium and if they are all/majority held by one party (i.e. the developer).

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Condo-Voting...-C-t342577.html

0. Check you are getting the on-shore rate for your foreign currency transfer.

1. Get the minutes of the AGMs AND the Minutes of the Committee Meetings.

2. Read The Condo Act; read the Condo Regulations which is a legal document deposited with the Land Office

3. The Condo Association will also have records of what percentage of units are foreign owned. DON'T get stuck with a unit owned by a bogus Thai company.

4. Does the Committee meet as specified in the Regulations?

5. Are the Committee Members approachable and helpful?

6. Speak with as many non-committee member residents as possible

7. Meet the Manager. If he/she won't answer questions and says go speak with the Committee then do so.

8. If Committee says go speak with manager then unless you really like the building and would like to fight all this kind of nonsense at the AGM and during the year, go find somewhere else to buy.

9. Ask for the AUDITED financials; ask for monthly financial statements - they are common property and some good condos put up on notice board for all to peruse. Other condos are/may be secretive. If so, why?

10. Ask about major maintenance projects - sewage and drainage, water and filtration, roof, roads, gardens, painting of outside of building and corridors, elevators.

11. Have the projects planned for the previous year been completed OK? How about any work in progress?

12. Check the basement for damp.

13. Is there a Sinking Fund? Is it sufficient?

14. Is Insurance Coverage enough?

15. What are the yearly maintenance fees? What percentage of co-owners do not pay.

16. Are smoke alarms installed in common areas? In individual units? Are they checked and monitored and/or connected to the fire service?

17. Is there a sprinkler system?

18. Walk the emergency stairwells - what kind of lighting? Does it work? Are the stairwells clear and clean?

19. Check that fire fighting equipment is available and periodically maintained (there should be a record of costs associated with this so you don't just have to take someone's word for it)

20. Check that security personnel are smart, courteous and at their stations.

21. Is there 24 hour coverage by English speaking staff?

22. Does the office staff have name badges?

23. Is the building secure or can anyone just walk in and go where they please?

24. Is the perimeter secure?

25. Is there CCTV and does it work?

26. Are there recordings and how long are they kept?

27. If there is a key card system how often is it changed? How many key cards have been issued? How many are unaccounted for?

28. Try to find out how many burglaries in past 2 years.

29. Are the grounds neat and tidy?

30. Is the garbage room clean and tidy? How often is garbage collected?

31. Availability of (IDD) telephone (data) lines and the cost of same (some condos charge a criminal amount to get a IDD line).

32. Availability of cable TV choice and options for putting up own satellite dish(es).

33. Cost of metered services – water and electricity if supplied by building and cost of changing to own meters.

34. What facilities (residents' lounge, exercise room, etc.) are available and are they in use and good repair? Swimming pool? Tennis court? Is there a charge?

35. Are facilities open to non-residents? This can lead to an increased security risk and different atmosphere with strangers coming and going frequently. Is additional wear and tear on the facilities covered by the charges to non-residents or does the management pocket the takings?

36. Are there karaoke bars or other noisy places nearby? How often? How loud? How late?

37. If there is a view is there the possibility it could be blocked in the future?

38. Check basement rooms for trash, evidence of staff (and their friends) staying there.

39. Parking spaces are common property and should not be allocated.

40. How long to wait for an elevator during high season?

41. How many units are currently unoccupied?

42. How many units are currently offered for sale or rent? Check other prices.

43. Make sure most if not all the units in the building are occupied by the owners.

44. If the management offers to rent condo's on the owners' behalf, how much do they charge and exactly what service is on offer?

45. Check on the number of leasehold units within the condominium. It is possible that these may be 'truly owned' by the developer and as such the developer could hold a large block of voting rights within the condominium. This could impact services and charges for these services. This comes about because some developers particularly in Patthaya and Phuket struggle to sell the Thai 51% quota of units. As a result they may choose to lease these units out (effectively charging 30 years rent up front).

Within my own condominium the rules state.

"If the number of voting rights held by any co-owner exceeds half of the total voting rights, it shall be reduced to equal the remaining portion of voting rights held by other Co-owners in aggregate."

Edited May 5, 2010 by pkrv

[HampiK]

Within my own condominium the rules state.

"If the number of voting rights held by any co-owner exceeds half of the total voting rights, it shall be reduced to equal the remaining portion of voting rights held by other Co-owners in aggregate."

But this mean, if the co-owner can find only 1 person vote same him, then he win all the time!

And the rest can't do anything against.

[pkrv]

Within my own condominium the rules state.

"If the number of voting rights held by any co-owner exceeds half of the total voting rights, it shall be reduced to equal the remaining portion of voting rights held by other Co-owners in aggregate."

But this mean, if the co-owner can find only 1 person vote same him, then he win all the time!

And the rest can't do anything against.

Please excuse me Thaivisa is an English Written forum - It is difficult for other nationalities.

You have to take care that people/individuals Thai and Farang buy (most) of the condominium you are interested in via freehold - NOT leasehold.

Edited July 21, 2010 by pkrv

[pkrv]

A new poster has found the Thai condominium act written in Thai and indeed provided a link for the google English translation

Thaivisa thread here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/409876-condominioum-law-act/

Condominium act in Thai here:

http://www.dol.go.th/dol/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=41&Itemid=52

Google English translation here:

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=th&u=http://www.dol.go.th/dol/index.php%3Foption%3Dcom_content%26task%3Dview%26id%3D41%26Itemid%3D52&ei=GlLETJXnDMKycNy19NcL&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBkQ7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.dol.go.th/dol/index.php%253Foption%253Dcom_content%2526task%253Dview%2526id%253D41%2526Itemid%253D52%26hl%3Den%26prmd%3Div

[SNGLIFE]

Sorry, I cannot seem to find the clear answer to a very intriguing question raised in one of the earlier posts:

Can multiple single-family homes on a common lot with shared facilities and areas be considered a condominium here in Thailand (very common in the States)? If so, what is the process for obtaining legal recognition of such a condominium after the properties have been built? For example, if I were to buy a resort having multiple cottages or houses, what then would be the legal process to get it recognized as a condominium?

Thanks in advance for posting or PM'img your thoughtful replies. Thanks in advance for not posting if you really do not have anything to contribute.

[pkrv]

Sorry, I cannot seem to find the clear answer to a very intriguing question raised in one of the earlier posts:

Can multiple single-family homes on a common lot with shared facilities and areas be considered a condominium here in Thailand (very common in the States)? If so, what is the process for obtaining legal recognition of such a condominium after the properties have been built? For example, if I were to buy a resort having multiple cottages or houses, what then would be the legal process to get it recognized as a condominium?

Thanks in advance for posting or PM'img your thoughtful replies. Thanks in advance for not posting if you really do not have anything to contribute.

Sorry SNGLIFE all I can suggest is that you PM quiksilva or hhgz they are helpful guys and may provide more information than I can.

Something else has come up

People talk about the Tor Tor 3. This is actually now known as the Foriegn Exchange Transaction Form (FETF)

The amount to be transfered has just increased from 20,000 USD to 50,000 USD roughly 1.5m THB - So this still remains a critical document to obtain for a condominium purchase.

Thread below.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/408051-tor-tor-3-new-procedures/page__gopid__4047440

or the locked and pinned thread

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/147540-transfering-money-to-thailand-for-property-purchase/

[pkrv]

IMO - An interesting thread - it details land documents - critical to us.

InterestedObserver's link is a good start.

Also:

Land Titles issued by the Land Department are divided into 6 main categories as follows:

Sor Kor 1 (S.K. 1), is a notification form of possession of land.

Nor Sor 2 (N.S. 2) is a consent letter issued by the Land Department to the holder.

Nor Sor 3 (N.S. 3), is an instrument which signifies the land occupier's right to possess the land, but without conferring actual possession.

Nor Sor 3 Gor (N.S. 3 G.), is an instrument with the same legal basis as Nor. Sor. 3, the difference being that Nor. Sor. 3 Gor has the land area parcel points set by using the aerial survey.

Nor Sor 3 Khor (N.S. 3 K.), is an instrument with the same legal basis as Nor. Sor. 3 Gor, the difference being that Nor. Sor. 3 Khor issued in the area which has no parcel points set by using the aerial survey.

Nor Sor 5 (N.S. 5) is a document showing the verification in the right of the holder in the N.S. 5 land, if the holder has N.S. 5 land along with a utilization certificate - it indicates that the district officer has confirmed the utilization on such N.S. 5 land.

Nor Sor 4 Jor (N.S. 4 J.) or Chanote title deed is the only document which can be described as a land freehold title deed, because it is the only one confirming the ownership of the land.

Land documents issued by other government departments

Sor. Por. Gor. 4-01 (S.P.G. 4-01)

Sor. Tor. Gor. (S.T.G.)

Por. Bor. Tor. 5 (P.B.T. 5)

Nor. Kor. 3 (N.K. 3)

Gor. Sor. Nor. 5 (G.S.N. 5)

Not sure how up to date the above is as some titles were changed fairly recently, but such changes should be (relatively) easy to find.

Gives you something to go on, however.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/448844-condo-under-company/

[pkrv]

There has been a slight flaw in this thread which is discussed here:

http://www.thaivisa....mething-at-agm/

It is how a condominium actally works: BTW I too learnt a lot - You have jursitic and you have condominium management - this is how it works.

This is where the Condo Act fails, and is the cause of frequent power struggle. Both the Juristic Manager and the Committee are elected through an AGM or EOGM. The Juristic Manager has to manage and observe the property in compliance with the Condo Act. Issues not specified by the Act should be decided by majority votes of the Committee.

And what is the Committee for, if not to set policies and manage the property?

set policies yes - manage no

Yes, in some way, manage as well. We even appoint sub-committee to assist in major works. We I live, we have 24 separate condo buildings and a sub-committee handles getting quotations for repainting the buildings, does the technical evaluation of offers and recommend how the work may be awarded to the main committee. This is to enable owners who have the relevant knowledge but not time to serve as main committee to help out.

I think that the committee carryinh out management duties is illegal -unless they have work permits

This is my understanding:

1)Who is responsible for the maintenance of the condominium

- Answer -The co -owners

2) How do they organise themselves

-Answer -by organizing a committee from volunteer co -owners (Min 3 persons -Max 9 persons one person will act as chairman -a vice chairman can also be selected. These appointments are made by othercommitte members). This committee can only determine policy . The policy is implemented by a legally appointed manager for day to day action and a legally appointed Juristic Person for the legal aspects The Manager reports to the committee.. Legally these appoitments should be made at the 1st General meeting . Thjis meeting has to occur within 6 months from the date when the building was legally registered as a 'Condominium Juristic Person'. The status of the building prior to this legal registration is just that -a building

Typically this will occur after the date when the original new owners move in.In my view this meeting needs to bv handled by professionals. The Agenda ,Minutes ,Names of the Committee has to be registered with a 'Competent Official'. This is the Land Registry office. They will only accept this data in Thai .They usually look for slight imperfections in the process( which are typically resolved with a financial consideration).The alternative is to go back and run the whole thing again.

3 Meetings. A general meeting of the co owners must be convened every 12 months (conditions apply) by necessity an Extra general meeting can be convened(conditions apply) See attached jPEG 42-2 (note the only legally accepted version of the Condo Act is in the Thai Language. There is no official English language version. Therefore I cannot 100% confirm the accuracy of the info attachment)

In all such meeting the chairman chairs the meeting . The manager cannot .

So if you wish to have your topic on the agenda -approach the committee in writing -they will have to accept or reject your proposal . Either way they must respond in writing.

If you are dis-satisfied then you can use the 'Any other business ' route.

I attach a few more JPEG ,s . I trust that they will be of some use

[pkrv]

IMO an excellent tread on the definition of terms used when buying/living in a condominium

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/472076-definition-of-terms-in-thai-condo-law/

[pkrv]

Some very hard work and indeed important work done by ripley http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/502607-glossary-of-condominium-terms/

The final outcome is as follows:

GLOSSARY OF CONDOMINIUM TERMS (Written and edited by ripley, Delight and pkrv. With thanks to the many contributors to TVF threads on Condominium matters)

Thai Condominium Act: The Act which outlines all Laws regarding the establishment, operation and dissolution of a Condominium.

A.G.M.: Annual General Meeting. It is mandated by the Thai Condominium Act that every Condo have an AGM. The Agenda for the AGM is also mandated clearly in the Act.

CJP: Condominium Juristic Person. Refers to the Condominium as – individual units, common properties, assets, owners, etc. as an entity. This entity is to be considered under law separately from its individual members or shareholders. (Limited liability)

E.G.M.: Extra-ordinary General Meeting. This term may refer to a "Second Call" meeting of the AGM if for some reason the first AGM was unable to meet requirements such as quorum or voting ratios. It also refers to any additional meeting to address Condo matters, which may be called by the Committee or the Juristic Person Manager (conditions apply), or 25% of the Co-owners.

F.E.T.F.: Foreign Exchange Transfer Form

J.P. : Juristic Person. A Co-owner, ie: The owner of a Condominium unit. (A non-owner is referred to in the Condominium Act as a "Normal" or "natural" Person". (Limited liability)

J.P.M.: Juristic Person Manager. A person elected by the Co-owners at an AGM whose function is to check all official paperwork for legality and to sign required documents (Government and others) submitted to the CJP. The "hand" of the owners, if you will. This person must have some legal qualifications, be fluent in the Thai language and must have legal authority to work in Thailand. (If the building is run by a Management Company, their legal department may serve as JPM). (Limited liability)

Bank Account – Developer: This covers all the income and all expenditure associated with purchase of the land and building the Condominium. The data on this account is privy to the developer.

Bank Account – CJP: This receives maintenance fees and all income/monies generated and received by the CJP. The data on this account must be categorized and presented together with all other financial information at the AGM

Certificate of Condominium Ownership (Chanote ti din): The document that certifies legal ownership of personal property and accompanying common property.

Committee: (Sometimes referred to as "The Board") A group of not less than 3 and not more than 9 Co-owners elected at an AGM to represent the interests of the Co-owners. They may frame and monitor policy but are not empowered to implement it. (Limited liability)

Common Property: Any space in the Condominium Building or on its grounds which is not and cannot be owned privately. (This includes the land upon which the Condo is built). All Co-owners own a share of the Common Property, sharing also in the expense of its upkeep. It is to be used for their communal enjoyment, recreation and benefit.

Competent Official: The State Officer/s authorized by the Ministry to enforce the Thai Condominium Act. Powers vest in different officials, depending on the particular part of the Act being enforced and how. Contact is via the Land Department/ Office.

Completion: The registration of the CJP with the Competent Authority according to Thai Condominium Act, which can only be done upon the full completion of the building and contractual terms and conditions as specified in the Co-owners' contract.

Condominium: A building or group of buildings, registered with the Land Department under the Thai Condominium Act, which can be separated into units for individual ownership and which includes Common Properties.

Condominium Unit: A part of the building that has been separated for private ownership by an individual or company.

Condotel: A Condominium containing un-purchased units owned by the developer which can be rented out in much the same way as an hotel room.

Co-owner: Owner of a Condominium unit. (a Juristic Person)

Foreign Quota: The percentage of units foreigners are allowed to own. Usually this amount is 49%, but not all Condominiums are open to Foreign ownership, nor may a Foreigner insist on on Foreign registration even if the Condominium's Foreign Quota is not filled. The Foreign Quota is recorded but not implemented by the Land Office.

Juristic: Of one relating to law or legality. The term "Juristic" indicates a shielding of the so described person or entity from personal legal liability

Maintenance Fund: A mandatory annual payment based on the square meterage of each Condominium unit. This amount is used to pay staff, make repairs and keep the building in peak condition. Details regarding payment, default or any alteration of the Maintenance Fee are clearly outlined in the Thai Condominium Act.

Manager: A Normal (Natural) or Juristic person hired to implement management tasks for the Condominium under the supervision of the Committee and the JPM.

Management Company: A private company hired on a contract basis to implement management tasks. Such companies usually provide a Manager, and may offer Legal and other services as well.

Nominee Company: A company which has purchased a Condominium unit in its own name.

Normal or Natural Person: a person not a Co-owner of the condominium

Proxy: A normal or Juristic Person authorized by a Co-owner to exercise his/her vote at an AGM or EGM, or to act on his/ her behalf in any matter. The limit is three Proxies per person authorized.

Regulations: (also called "By-laws") Rules for your Condominium, written, proposed and approved by a vote at either an AGM or EGM. The Condominium's regulations are Law, so long as they do not contravene the Thai Condominium Act or Thai Law.

Sinking Fund: A fund maintained separately from the Maintenance Fund, to be used only for building emergencies, demanding unforeseeable circumstances. Circumstances for other usage must be clearly specified and voted upon at an AGM/ EGM. The amount of a Sinking fund is fixed initially at the discretion of the developer, subsequently determined by vote at an AGM or EGM.

Square Meter Ratio: (Individual Ownership Area) The sum of meterage owned by the Co-owner including his/her share of Common Property.

Tabien Bahn: A booklet to which an owner is entitled which provides proof of residence. For Thais, the book is blue. For foreigners it is yellow.

Voting Power: The strength of a Co-owner's vote at an AGM or EGM is proportional to the square meters s/he owns, including the share of Common Property. There are exceptions, details of which and applicable restrictions are clear in the Thai Condominium Act.

Notes on Areas:

(Some sellers simply refer to "Chanote Area")

Nominal Area of a Condominium Unit

This is the area referred to by those who are selling the condo unit. It will always be a greater value than the Chanote Area. The Nominal area includes:

1.) Area of the main building columns

2.) Area of balcony wall

3.) 50% of the area of the wall that borders with a corridor or common walkway.

Chanote Area. This is the official area determined by the land register office.

Typically it will be the Nominal Area less #s 1-3 as above. The main purpose of the Chanote Area is to determine a value for transfer taxation purposes. Taxation on balcony areas is typically lower than the taxation imposed on the living area.

RELEVANT THREADS: ***If you think you've found a source or Thread which might be useful in this list, please submit it first to the 'Definitions Discussion' thread for consideration.***

- Many condo definitions – data supplied by 'prv.' Jpg This can be found in the "Terms Discussion" thread, and is from a well-drafted purchase contract.

-The Condominium Act and Definition of a Condominium in Thailand (issues such as juristic, voting, updates to the Act, security, etc. - By "hhgz") TVF

- Condo Committees and Management – difficulties, advantages and lessons learned – By "ripley" TVF

- Are Condo Voting Rights in proportion to condo size? – By "Delight" TVF

- Condo Documents: What are they? – By "vibe" TVF

This post has been edited by ripley: Yesterday, 09:34

[yougivemebaby]

I have a friend interested in buying a condo in a mostly Thai area. (not many farang) They do speak English but they didn't understand what a free hold was. Does anyone know how to ask in Thai if the property/condo falls in the freehold category?

Thanks

[Delight]

There is no word for Freehold in the Thai Language

Thai people do understand the concept of a Title deed

The word for this transliterates to Chanote

Just say Chanote and they will understand

However just for the sake of completeness:-

I detail the question:-

บ้าน bâan มี mii โฉนด chà~​nòot ไหม mǎi

Word for Word English is

‘House have chanote, no ‘ (the ‘no’ interrogates the statement and thus makes it into a question.

Good Luck

[yougivemebaby]

There is no word for Freehold in the Thai Language

Thai people do understand the concept of a Title deed

The word for this transliterates to Chanote

Just say Chanote and they will understand

However just for the sake of completeness:-

I detail the question:-

บ้าน bâan มี mii โฉนด chà~​nòot ไหม mǎi

Word for Word English is

‘House have chanote, no ‘ (the ‘no’ interrogates the statement and thus makes it into a question.

Good Luck

Thank you very much

[fish fingers]

how many apartments (minimum) or floors must there be in a building to be classed as a condominium?

[hourlay]

I read the list of 45 points to be checked before buying a condo.

I am very surprised...

I discuss with lot's of developper in Pattaya, they just saying "yes yes no problem" to all my questions...

Thus , I assess at around 5 years to be able to get the 45 answers for just one condo.

Anyway , many thanks for creating the list.