Don't Plan A Holiday In Uganda

[Jingthing]

Uganda, bucking for the prize.

While Thailand isn't quite the "paradise" for Thai gays that it may be for monied tourists, its worth taking a moment to consider how bad it is for gays in many countries of the world.

Details of the proposed anti-gay Uganda law:

outlaws "any form of sexual relations between persons of the same sex," punishable by life in prison or death

Homosexuality already is illegal in Uganda: The Penal Code bans "carnal knowledge of any person against the order of nature," with a possible penalty of life imprisonment, but prosecutions are rare because the standard of proof requires that offenders be caught in the act. According to Foreign Policy magazine, the proposed legislation would make it easier to catch and prosecute offenders:

"In addition to outlawing 'any form of sexual relations between persons of the same sex' with penalties up to life imprisonment, the proposed bill criminalizes attempted homosexuality, the aiding and abetting of homosexuality, and promotion of homosexuality -- each carrying a possible prison sentence of seven years. Failure to disclose an offense is also punishable by a fine and three years in prison. And anyone with knowledge of crimes committed is obligated to report them to the authorities within 24 hours. The legislation also creates a new category of offense, 'aggravated homosexuality,' which is punishable with death. The latter crime would include having homosexual sex with a minor or someone with a disability or having homosexual sex while HIV positive (the bill makes no distinction about whether offenders must be knowingly infected to qualify.) "

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith...aw_rile_us.html

[cognos]

as a hetro it ain't on my list of to do things either..signed: LOS or bust

[reboi]

Hmmmmm, never really considered Uganda as a prime destination for holidays. Maybe I've been sheltered?

[Jingthing]

I think it may be an OK spot for heteros, lots of party girls in the poorer countries of Africa and you won't be put to death for indulging. I think it is a beautiful country with attractions for more adventurous travelers. Of course gay travelers could go there and just avoid being sexual, but I wouldn't want to spend my money in such a repressive regime. Uganda isn't the only country with such horrible laws, but some of the details of the new law are really shocking. Such as being required to report known violators within 24 hours.

I brought up this topic to add a little perspective. Along the lines of how great it is to be gay in Thailand and the western countries where most of us come from here. Not that long ago, the UK criminalized gay sex. We have come a long way, baby, but in much of the world, we might be going backwards.

Edited December 8, 2009 by Jingthing

[PeaceBlondie]

It was illegal in Texas until the 1990's. Still barbarically illegal in USA military.

[MyphuketLife]

It amazes me the people that make these laws. Why so much hate?

On a lighter note as a hetro, I wish every other man on the planet was gay, it would have made my single days allot more enjoyable having all the women fighting for me

[ArthurPewty]

What is there? Landmines and amputees!

[Scott]

....and some very pathetic laws.

[Jingthing]

Rick Warren, the famous preacher man who did a prayer thingie at Barack Obama's inauguration was asked in a public interview what he thought of the new laws in Uganda about gays. Warren has worked closely with a Ugandan pastor that supports the death to gays law. He replied that he would not take sides on this. Let that one sink in ...

Update -- under great pressure and obvious public shame, Warren has changed his tune on this issue and sent a letter to the Ugandan churches. Its hard to forget his initial reaction.

Edited December 11, 2009 by Jingthing

[endure]

I used to go to college with a guy from Kenya who told me categorically that there was not one single homosexual in Kenya. Every last person there was streaight.

[Jingthing]

I used to go to college with a guy from Kenya who told me categorically that there was not one single homosexual in Kenya. Every last person there was streaight.

Now, I know that isn't true.

[Gaccha]

"the proposed bill criminalizes attempted homosexuality"

I appreciate I should be in a state of upset condemning this bill but I will leave that to everyone else, instead I have a few geeky observations.

1. The tendency to use 'homosexual' as a noun is seriously objectionable. It locates and ties that human being as nothing but that descriptor-- it suggests there is nothing more to say. At one point, althougth for some reason not now, newspapers starting to observe this point, and the Guardian Style Guide did (but now doesn't) mention that it should be restricted to an adjective form. But even then.... e.g. The murderer is door-stepped by the press reporter. The reporter solemnly turns to the camera,"this is the homosexual murderer Vincent....". Wait a minute says the murderer:"I am a murderer who just happens to be gay".

2. I find it amusing that the Ugandan authorities believe you can 'attempt homosexuality'. It sounds deliciously a la carte. A simple physical manouevre that if not undertaken you remain, presumably, ruggedly masculine.

3. Now this final geeky point is a wide digression, but stay with me. I wonder what would happen if aliens landed. What of the inter-species sexual relations. Say, the aliens were dead ringers for perfect humans (e.g. the Hoff or Britney ). Would there be horror and outrage at such acts? I have discovered that the Vatican has actually written up protocol for this eventuality. Obviously their priority is to baptise these uber-advanced alien species into believers of Christ, but they also object to the aliens having sex with men because humans are the image of God and chosen by God. God help us. If only the Church spent a little bit less time on these issues and a little more dissuading the backwaters like Uganda about the demerits of intolerance and encouraged acceptance then things might run a bit better.

[Jingthing]

2. I find it amusing that the Ugandan authorities believe you can 'attempt homosexuality'. It sounds deliciously a la carte. A simple physical manouevre that if not undertaken you remain, presumably, ruggedly masculine.

That reminds me that I am a practicing homosexual. I keep practicing but I just can't get it straight.

[bangkokrick]

The problem lies with the ex president. The late night romps and the choirboys screaming IDI am in!

By the way what has this got to do with Thailand/

Cheers, Rick

[bangkokrick]

The problem lies with the ex president. The late night romps and the choirboys screaming IDI am in!

By the way what has this got to do with Thailand/

Cheers, Rick

So I can't even reply to your PM. Just about sums things up!!!

[Jingthing]

The problem lies with the ex president. The late night romps and the choirboys screaming IDI am in!

By the way what has this got to do with Thailand/

Cheers, Rick

So I can't even reply to your PM. Just about sums things up!!!

Hmmmm. Can I interest you in a ticket to Uganda?

[Ijustwannateach]

As I am tired of repeating myself on this, I will be giving warnings this and every other time I am forced to say: discussion of gay topics in the gay subforum need not be confined to Thailand, though Thai-related gay topics are encouraged. Same-same with educational topics in the teachers' forum; women's topics in the ladies' forum, etc., etc.

[dukkha]

2. I find it amusing that the Ugandan authorities believe you can 'attempt homosexuality'. It sounds deliciously a la carte. A simple physical manouevre that if not undertaken you remain, presumably, ruggedly masculine.

That reminds me that I am a practicing homosexual. I keep practicing but I just can't get it straight.

Yes thought the same, and all those doctors practising medicine, cant they get it right either...dukkha......i think it is with an 's' in the verb form...

[rodentwarrior]

I used to go to college with a guy from Kenya who told me categorically that there was not one single homosexual in Kenya. Every last person there was streaight.

Now, I know that isn't true.

I had an Afro-Caribbean plasterer working for me in London years ago, who categorically denied that there were any black gays in London! He was married with 8 children (4 kids with his wife, 4 kids with 2 other women). Didn't support any of them, left that to the state, and didn't have a problem about that either. He lasted a week, then had enough money to drink and smoke weed until he ran out.

Never saw him again.

[Takeo]

I believe i am correcting saying that actaully homosexuality is illegal in all of Africa, with the exception of south Africa. Just last week 5 homosexual males in Kenya were killed for trying to marry (two sets of couples and a witness).

It is a shame there is still a huge misconception about it being something un natural. Even in China i believe until 2001 it was still considered a mental illness, and still not very accepted.

Nice that Thailand is different. It may not be a san fancisco but its far better than the worst.

[Jingthing]

OK, this is getting weirder and weirder. Now this story. A Ugandan preacher is showing gay porn to his flock in SUPPORT of the gay death penalty law. Oy vey!

http://guyism.com/2010/02/anti-gay-preache...rch-sermon.html

Edited February 19, 2010 by Jingthing

[eek]

Bahamas too guys, can you believe it? Particularly surprising seeing as they use a British Legal system. Well..it was that way about 15 years ago, which is when i lived there for a short while, may have changed since then.

[bifftastic]

I think that in all the places where something naturally occurring is declared illegal you will find politics laced with religion (or vice versa) at the root of it all.

In declaring the penalty for failure to report these 'crimes' and adding that 'attempted homosexuality' is also illegal it kind of turns the population 'in on itself' and encourages people to settle grudges by reporting others to the authorities for things which are hard to prove or dis-prove.

Creating mis-trust, suspicion and treachery. The government, meanwhile, gets on with totally messing everything up and has large numbers of the populace focused on 'the enemy within' as it were.

Many authoritarian regimes have turned their people against each other in this way but it still surprises me that the roots of all this hatred can come from people who have 'faith' in religious doctrines which, on the surface a least, pretend to espouse love, friendship, tolerance and compassion, yet so easily lend themselves to exploitation for political ends.

Thanks to JT for another informative and thought-provoking post.

[Jingthing]

A recent excellent documentary on the horrible situation for gays in Uganda (as well as the involvement of American right wingers in stirring this up) --

Missionaries of Hate, Pt. 1 // Current

Edited June 7, 2010 by Jingthing

[Rumpole]

I believe i am correcting saying that actaully homosexuality is illegal in all of Africa, with the exception of south Africa.

Actually, not true. In addition to South Africa, homosexuality is not illegal in most of the former French and Portuguese colonies either (at least those where Muslims are not a majority of the population). Oppression seems to be at its worst in places which have Islam as the state religion or in former British colonies where the Victorian 'sodomy' laws still obtain - as is also the case in the Bahamas mentioned above.

Edited June 17, 2010 by Rumpole

[brahmburgers]

Uganda also has roaming bands of brigands who attack outlying villages and kill, steal and rape. Their police and army can't deal with it.

[Jingthing]

More dreadful news out of Iran. Apparently, "sodomites" can still be stoned to death there under their barbaric legal system.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/aug/08/iran-mohammad-mostafaei-rights-lawyer

I want to be tolerant of Iran and I know people can't help where they are born but their government truly deserves global condemnation.

A person convicted of homosexuality in Iran can be lashed, hanged or stoned to death. The law includes a variety of penalties for different acts: 99 lashes if two unrelated males sleep "unnecessarily" under the same blanket – even without any sexual contact. A boy raped by an adult man would also be lashed if the court decided that he had "enjoyed" the experience.

Edited August 8, 2010 by Jingthing