Cambodian Court Sentences Thai Engineer To 7 Years In Jail

[h90]

Yeah, you are probably right h90.

At the very least though it should give us a good giggle when the Thaksin fans start singing his praises.

Thaksin our hero.....

All in one person

Mother Theresa

Gandhi

Nelson Mandela

Bill Gates

Robin Hood

James Bond

Emperor Nero

[jonclark]

Sivarak, 31, an employee of the Cambodia Air Traffic Service which controlled air traffic in Cambodia, rejected an allegation that he sent the flight plans of Thaksin to Thai Embassy's First Secretary Kamrob Palawatwichai.

"I knew the first secretary only for about two years and rarely contacted him," he told the court.

On the day that Thaksin arrived in Phnom Penh, that diplomat telephoned him and asked whether it was true that Thaksin arrived in the Cambodian capital.

"I am authorised to know that kind of information, so I checked it with a Khmer staff who confirmed Thaksin had arrived. That staff even gave me a copy of the flight plan," he said.

Sivarak said he did not pass on the copy to Kamrob.

Two other employees from the Cambodia Air Traffic Service testified that Siwarak asked them about the flight schedule.

Sivrak, was taken into court under heavy security.

Interesting......

Would a staff member of a certain Embassy in any given country be allowed to phone someone he knows at the airport and check about a specific aircraft ?

In other words: would a Chinese Embassy (or North Korean, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Germany, UK....you name the country) staff member -morally- be allowed to phone a chap he knows at a Washington DC/New York, London, Paris airport and ask him specific details about a certain aircraft ?

And....if that chap would deliver information to that certain Embassy staff member.....would that be espionage....spying ?

I know the Intelligence Services, around the world, are doing so on a daily basis....but a "normal" staff member of an Embassy ?

Interesting question but not so easy to answer.

LaoPo

I think my mother once called at the airport and asked if an airplane has been landed already.

That's not the point.

Everybody, including your Mother, can call an airport if a certain plane has landed; nowadays one can look at the website of an airport if a plane arrived or took off and at what time, apart from private planes; that info is usually knot known/available to the public.

It's about trying to get information about a certain -private- aircraft (and he did) and if someone specific was on board of that aircraft and pass that same information to a third party (in this case the Embassy of another country).

There are still many airports in the world where one will be thrown in jail if you would take pictures of planes...let alone pass information of planes to another nation's embassy.

LaoPo

Whilst I agree with these sentiments, Takky is still a Thai National, who is a wanted man. Maybe the poor bloke was just tryingto be a good citizen and advise the Thai embassy of the where abouts of a wanted Thai citizen. If the staff of the HK embassy had done their job propertly and detained Takky when he annulled his marriage then maybe this poor bloke wouldn't be in jail now.

[BSJ]

Yeah, you are probably right h90.

At the very least though it should give us a good giggle when the Thaksin fans start singing his praises.

Thaksin our hero.....

All in one person

Mother Theresa

Gandhi

Nelson Mandela

Bill Gates

Robin Hood

James Bond

Emperor Nero

Bill Gates! Your a very funny person H90!

[baht&sold]

His mother stopped the request for bail (if it would be granted he would have left the country easily).

He get 7 years and what surprise he says "Now only Thaksin can help".

A great big show.

BTW, the great big show *should* climax before Jan 8th-

the last date to announce a verdict on Mr Thaksin's frozen 76 billion baht.

Either way, it prob ain't over until square-face (or the ex-missus) says so.

[Bagwan]

Is the Thai company still controlling Cambodian air space? If so, why?

[Asa]

Is the Thai company still controlling Cambodian air space? If so, why?

Contract is still there, only their operation is tempo freezed, taken over by Khmer counterparts. In the future they must have some kind of stricter guideline on confidential information protection. The guy's employment there is finished anyway.

[h90]

Yeah, you are probably right h90.

At the very least though it should give us a good giggle when the Thaksin fans start singing his praises.

Thaksin our hero.....

All in one person

Mother Theresa

Gandhi

Nelson Mandela

Bill Gates

Robin Hood

James Bond

Emperor Nero

Bill Gates! Your a very funny person H90!

never heard: businessman, from nothing to super rich, genius for business, self made man etc etc etc

I even heard how super modern he is and that he knows EVERYTHING about electronic etc etc

Never heard red propaganda????

He also will ride an elephant (can't recall white one or gray one) from Isaan to Bangkok leading the people to seize power....I am still waiting for that.....

[h90]

Is the Thai company still controlling Cambodian air space? If so, why?

Contract is still there, only their operation is tempo freezed, taken over by Khmer counterparts. In the future they must have some kind of stricter guideline on confidential information protection. The guy's employment there is finished anyway.

an already landed airplane is not confidential....all the airport + surrounding can see it.

[termad]

So the embassy person who called is a part of this government. He asks, as an official from the embassy, for information that should not be passed on without the consent of someone at a higher level in the Airport. He has circumvented the chain of command. He has also given information about someone acting in an official capacity for the Cambodian government.

So what ever big show follows, it was started by a person representing this government.

You are exactly right in what you say.

But I would go one step further and point out that as far as Thailand is concerned it is never guilty of any wrong and it is always the other side's fault. This is mostly because Nationalism is drummed into Thais from the moment they can walk.

This whole Cambodian business stated with a row over ownership of a Temple on the Thai/Cambodian border. If you have been to that Temple you will know that standing on the cliff, overlooking Cambodia, that that cliff is the natural border between the two countries and that the Temple should be owned by Thailand. Why isn't it? Because in 1942 the Thais with Japanese support and supplies of new Japanese planes and weaponry invaded and seized large chunks of Cambodia and Laos. At that time the Vichy government was in power in France so the only opposition that Thailand faced were approximately 10,000 lightly armed French civilians. Needless to say the French civilians didn't stand much of a chance. To celebrate that glorious victory Thailand erected the Victory Monument (which we have all passed many times). However, not so long after erecting their Victory monument they were given 24 hours to get out of Cambodia and Laos by the Allies and they then scuttled back into Thailand.

After the war, unfortunately for Thailand, the team that was commissioned to re-draw the Thai/Cambodian border was a French team. I agree it is quite possible that the team didn't have any warm feelings towards Thailand (who could blame them) and a few little squiggles on the line meant that Thailand lost the Temple and a few other small chunks of Thai territory. Does Thailand deserve any sympathy for that or should they accept the loss of the Temple as a just (but too light) pumishment?

Since 911 any information in respect of flight paths/schedules has been considered very sensitive and very confidential information - not just in Asia but all around the world - for very obvious reasons. The engineer in question not only enquired amongst other members of CAT about the flight path/schedule of Taksin's jet he then telephoned the Thai Embassy and passed on the information to the First Secretary, Kamrob Palawatwichai, which I think is pretty obviously what he had previously been instructed to do. How else would he know whom to telephone? He has pled guilty to this.

The First Secretary wouldn't have got involved in spying without instructions from Bangkok i.e. Abhisit or one of his Cabinet. Although, the first slant on this story released by the Thai government was that a poor innocent Thai engineer had been arrested by those nasty Cambodians and not only that they'd expelled the First Secretary at the Thai embassy for no reason, typically playing the nationalist card - which has now backfired on them.

As to the Taksin conspiracy theory; how did this red shirted mother and kow towing father manage to involve the First Secretary of the Thai embassy? It's nonsense. Abhisit is not a fool and would have known straight away that his government was being set up.

[Asa]

Is the Thai company still controlling Cambodian air space? If so, why?

Contract is still there, only their operation is tempo freezed, taken over by Khmer counterparts. In the future they must have some kind of stricter guideline on confidential information protection. The guy's employment there is finished anyway.

an already landed airplane is not confidential....all the airport + surrounding can see it.

My sympathy to the man, I hope he will be out soon enough.

For h90, I guess you are still young and enthusiastic. You will be wisen up through times. Use your head and not your mind. Good Luck.

[baht&sold]

Is the Thai company still controlling Cambodian air space? If so, why?

Contract is still there, only their operation is tempo freezed, taken over by Khmer counterparts. In the future they must have some kind of stricter guideline on confidential information protection. The guy's employment there is finished anyway.

Actually, it's 'family affair' now with PM Hun Sen's daughter reported to be running the show, you know, in a 'friendly' temp takeover.

Yet another note straight from Mr Thaksin's playbook it would appear.

At least in this case the Sen family maids, gardeners and drivers aren't holding the bulk of shares...

[Rideau]

Is the Thai company still controlling Cambodian air space? If so, why?

Contract is still there, only their operation is tempo freezed, taken over by Khmer counterparts. In the future they must have some kind of stricter guideline on confidential information protection. The guy's employment there is finished anyway.

an already landed airplane is not confidential....all the airport + surrounding can see it.

My sympathy to the man, I hope he will be out soon enough.

For h90, I guess you are still young and enthusiastic. You will be wisen up through times. Use your head and not your mind. Good Luck.

Asa, the fact that you are older doesn't often guarantee you are always wiser. Good Luck.

[davee58]

My sympathy to the man, I hope he will be out soon enough.

For h90, I guess you are still young and enthusiastic. You will be wisen up through times. Use your head and not your mind. Good Luck.

Asa, the fact that you are older doesn't often guarantee you are always wiser. Good Luck.

Well this guy is in jail for 7 years on an espionage charge.

He is now a bit older and a lot wiser !

[languageexpress]

Who would have guessed that the wheels of justice turn so fast in Cambodia!

It took 30+ year to arrange trials for mass murder and genocide, but only a flash to convict this poor guy.

Still, at least the world will now expect lighting fast trials and convictions in graft and corruption cases.

[pedro01]

It's sad when people's lives get destroyed because they get caught in the crossfire between gov'ts. Whatever his mistakes, I very much doubt that he thought he was doing anything seriously wrong.

That does presume that the guy in the Cambodian Jail Cell as well as his mother weren't complicit from the start.

It is entirely possible that both are being paid a nice stipend for this performance.

[Rideau]

I think Cambodia PM Hun Sen now has the upper-hand over PTP if he decides to up the price. And that is making the poor mother nervous if PTP would keep the promise.

[limhoi]

from what I know, Hun Sen was with Dr. T those days, so their security was top priority. Who did the poor guy give flight number & all those things to in Thailand? Suthep Thuagsuban? If no one asked for Dr. T's flight, the poor guy will not be in jail. The poor guy wouldn't give a dam_n if Dr. T was fly in which date & out which date.

Could be the plan from Dr. T to prove that no one in this Democrat Party can negotiate with Cambodia.

[h90]

from what I know, Hun Sen was with Dr. T those days, so their security was top priority. Who did the poor guy give flight number & all those things to in Thailand? Suthep Thuagsuban? If no one asked for Dr. T's flight, the poor guy will not be in jail. The poor guy wouldn't give a dam_n if Dr. T was fly in which date & out which date.

Could be the plan from Dr. T to prove that no one in this Democrat Party can negotiate with Cambodia.

From what I read before that guy got only asked if Thaksin has landed already and confirmed that.

No secrets.

(not sure if that is the true but I read that)

[Sabre]

I think Cambodia is going to lose some land, if not their entire country soon.... if they don't change their ways.

Wild Conspiricy Theory: This is not true but it would make a great movie!

Thaskin is a deep cover spy for Thailand. He and his family were disgraced in order for him to wiggle his way into the Cambodian government. Hi job is to help increase tensions between Thailand and Cambodia in order to start a war. The end goal of the war would be to enable Thailand to take land back from Cambodia that was lost during the last hundred or so years. Thus, giving Thailand control over Cambodian oil

As I said earlier....it is NOT TRUE. But it would make a great movie!

I doubt such a plot would be sustainable even in a movie.

No offence, but that sounds like the worst movie since Kevin Costner's 'Waterworld'.

[Sabre]

Setup. Mr. T to the rescue.

I don't think that Mr. T is going to rescue anyone. Influence his release yes, take full credit, no. This guy will get out by royal pardon from King Sihamoni and deported home.

My prediction is 1-2 months, however I could be wrong (which would not be the first time ).

All those who think that a royal pardon is going to be the magic bullet solution here ought to know that under Cambodian law, prisoners must serve at least a third of their sentence before being eligible for a pardon.

Anyway, I'm sure where there's a will there's a way - they will most likely find a way to let him go without losing face and making sure that Thaksin gets the credit.

I feel sorry for the guy though, Cambodia's jails make Thailand's jails look positively inviting. Even a few weeks inside is going to hurt....

[h90]

Setup. Mr. T to the rescue.

I don't think that Mr. T is going to rescue anyone. Influence his release yes, take full credit, no. This guy will get out by royal pardon from King Sihamoni and deported home.

My prediction is 1-2 months, however I could be wrong (which would not be the first time ).

All those who think that a royal pardon is going to be the magic bullet solution here ought to know that under Cambodian law, prisoners must serve at least a third of their sentence before being eligible for a pardon.

Anyway, I'm sure where there's a will there's a way - they will most likely find a way to let him go without losing face and making sure that Thaksin gets the credit.

I feel sorry for the guy though, Cambodia's jails make Thailand's jails look positively inviting. Even a few weeks inside is going to hurt....

Under Cambodian law everything happens what Hun Sen decides. Hun Sen was never interested what the law tells. If he decides that guy can go home than he can go home so simple is that.

[hammered]

Setup. Mr. T to the rescue.

I don't think that Mr. T is going to rescue anyone. Influence his release yes, take full credit, no. This guy will get out by royal pardon from King Sihamoni and deported home.

My prediction is 1-2 months, however I could be wrong (which would not be the first time ).

All those who think that a royal pardon is going to be the magic bullet solution here ought to know that under Cambodian law, prisoners must serve at least a third of their sentence before being eligible for a pardon.

Anyway, I'm sure where there's a will there's a way - they will most likely find a way to let him go without losing face and making sure that Thaksin gets the credit.

I feel sorry for the guy though, Cambodia's jails make Thailand's jails look positively inviting. Even a few weeks inside is going to hurt....

Under Cambodian law everything happens what Hun Sen decides. Hun Sen was never interested what the law tells. If he decides that guy can go home than he can go home so simple is that.

WSJ did a nice piuece on Hun Sen and human rights abuise and linked the game with Thailand to his populist approach to government (combinerd with a prior smashing of the parliamentary opposition with a coup)

Anyway PTP, Thaksin and Chavalit are playing the game out with Hun Sen for maximum embarrassment to the Thai government and maximum kudos to Thaksin and PTP. A well coreographed game albeit telegraphed to an extent anyone can see that (which is also deliberate for extra humiliation for the government - you can see exactly what our childish game is but you cant do anything about it ). I dont beleive the "spy" was in on the game (surely nobody would volunteer for that) although not all think the same as me.

[h90]

WSJ did a nice piuece on Hun Sen and human rights abuise and linked the game with Thailand to his populist approach to government (combinerd with a prior smashing of the parliamentary opposition with a coup)

Anyway PTP, Thaksin and Chavalit are playing the game out with Hun Sen for maximum embarrassment to the Thai government and maximum kudos to Thaksin and PTP. A well coreographed game albeit telegraphed to an extent anyone can see that (which is also deliberate for extra humiliation for the government - you can see exactly what our childish game is but you cant do anything about it ). I dont beleive the "spy" was in on the game (surely nobody would volunteer for that) although not all think the same as me.

Well I think for 1 Million many would volunteer for that. Jail (also in Thailand) can be very comfortable. With own cook, staff etc etc. You only need to trust that everything is running smooth and they don't forget about the royal pardon.

[Sabre]

Setup. Mr. T to the rescue.

I don't think that Mr. T is going to rescue anyone. Influence his release yes, take full credit, no. This guy will get out by royal pardon from King Sihamoni and deported home.

My prediction is 1-2 months, however I could be wrong (which would not be the first time ).

All those who think that a royal pardon is going to be the magic bullet solution here ought to know that under Cambodian law, prisoners must serve at least a third of their sentence before being eligible for a pardon.

Anyway, I'm sure where there's a will there's a way - they will most likely find a way to let him go without losing face and making sure that Thaksin gets the credit.

I feel sorry for the guy though, Cambodia's jails make Thailand's jails look positively inviting. Even a few weeks inside is going to hurt....

Under Cambodian law everything happens what Hun Sen decides. Hun Sen was never interested what the law tells. If he decides that guy can go home than he can go home so simple is that.

I agree, and pretty much said the same thing. They'll find an excuse.

[Rumfoord]

WSJ did a nice piuece on Hun Sen and human rights abuise and linked the game with Thailand to his populist approach to government (combinerd with a prior smashing of the parliamentary opposition with a coup)

link?

and isn't WSJ one of the examples that the foreign media is all heavy influenced by Thaksins PR machine and connections and just repeat their propaganda?

according to WSJ it was a 'silent coup' - "Mr. Abhisit's government has come to power by riding the dangerous wave of antidemocratic protest ... The previous government, loyal to former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, was ousted by a combination of violent street protesters, with whom the military and police were largely complicit, and an activist judiciary operating under laws written by the military leaders"

[LaoPo]

WSJ did a nice piuece on Hun Sen and human rights abuise and linked the game with Thailand to his populist approach to government (combinerd with a prior smashing of the parliamentary opposition with a coup)

link?

and isn't WSJ one of the examples that the foreign media is all heavy influenced by Thaksins PR machine and connections and just repeat their propaganda?

according to WSJ it was a 'silent coup' - "Mr. Abhisit's government has come to power by riding the dangerous wave of antidemocratic protest ... The previous government, loyal to former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, was ousted by a combination of violent street protesters, with whom the military and police were largely complicit, and an activist judiciary operating under laws written by the military leaders"

Do you really think that the leading financial newspaper in the US, The Wall Street Journal, would let themselves influence by Thaksin's PR machine; do you really think so...or is it hear-say and nonsense rumors?

I consider the WSJ (owned by Dow Jones & Company who are owned by News Corporation*) as one of the most respected financial information channels in the world with highly qualified and well respected reporters and editors.

Or would *Rupert Murdoch and Saudi prince Al-Waleed bin Talal together with John Malone tell the WSJ what to write, being the most important shareholders of NC ?

I don't think so but maybe you know something that we don't.

LaoPo

[Ricardo]

Rupert Murdoch respects editorial independence in his newspapers.

[Rumfoord]

Do you really think that the leading financial newspaper in the US, The Wall Street Journal, would let themselves influence by Thaksin's PR machine; do you really think so...or is it hear-say and nonsense rumors?

I consider the WSJ (owned by Dow Jones & Company who are owned by News Corporation*) as one of the most respected financial information channels in the world with highly qualified and well respected reporters and editors.

no, i don't think so. did you spot the question mark at the end of my sentence?

but this theory is out there and according to a couple TVF members and even articles published in The Nation written by its clever journalists that claim is now a common "knowledge" and "fact" for anti Thaksin partisans and common tactic to diss articles by the foreign press with the argument that is all a spin planted by Thaksins PR agent. did you came never across that theory before, here on TVF?

i read the words coup, smashing the paliamentary opposition and populist approach, so i thought it could be also good time to remind a WSJ opinion on Abhisit and quote what they wrote about him and his way to power.

i missed the link to the WSJ article that hammered mentioned, thats why i asked. i was little bit in a surprise because normally the TVF with a strong anti thaksin stance just report what their wives saw on ASTV, or stick to The Nation articles and max recommend some lame Shawn Crispin article at asia times, but diss or ignore other media outlets. and never back up their 'story tales' with a reference but using smilies as an argument.

but now it turns out that they read the WSJ too.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Rupert Murdoch respects editorial independence in his newspapers.

He got where he got that way.

[Thai at Heart]

Do you really think that the leading financial newspaper in the US, The Wall Street Journal, would let themselves influence by Thaksin's PR machine; do you really think so...or is it hear-say and nonsense rumors?

I consider the WSJ (owned by Dow Jones & Company who are owned by News Corporation*) as one of the most respected financial information channels in the world with highly qualified and well respected reporters and editors.

no, i don't think so. did you spot the question mark at the end of my sentence?

but this theory is out there and according to a couple TVF members and even articles published in The Nation written by its clever journalists that claim is now a common "knowledge" and "fact" for anti Thaksin partisans and common tactic to diss articles by the foreign press with the argument that is all a spin planted by Thaksins PR agent. did you came never across that theory before, here on TVF?

i read the words coup, smashing the paliamentary opposition and populist approach, so i thought it could be also good time to remind a WSJ opinion on Abhisit and quote what they wrote about him and his way to power.

i missed the link to the WSJ article that hammered mentioned, thats why i asked. i was little bit in a surprise because normally the TVF with a strong anti thaksin stance just report what their wives saw on ASTV, or stick to The Nation articles and max recommend some lame Shawn Crispin article at asia times, but diss or ignore other media outlets. and never back up their 'story tales' with a reference but using smilies as an argument.

but now it turns out that they read the WSJ too.

Undoubtedly, it perpetuates the idea that Thaksin is in cahoots with organisations outside Thailand by claiming that the Economist or the WSJ is in his pocket.

Which would then beg the question, if these magazines are available to be bought, how come they criticise human rights in China, don't print many pro-North Korea stories, and vilify Mugabe, often openly criticise the US and many other countries and sitting governments without fear? To the rest of the world, they are perceived as well respected magazines with good investigative journalists, but alas, of course, one tinpot Thai politician has put them in his pocket to print articles in favour of him?

If they were that easy to buy, every single despot in the world would make sure he had them in his pocket also. There have been many pro-Abhisit stories in many global magazines over the years and he took the plaudits along the way. But if a western newspaper or journal is not rabidly Anti-Thaksin or even remotely pro-Thaksin or Anti-Democrat, it is because the opinion is a bought opinion? I don't buy it for one minute.

We are told, it is Thailand you can't understand, nothing is simple over here. Smoke mirrors and Asian mysticism have all conspired to make the situation incomprehensible to Western journalists? The situation is extremely simple, and we have debated it over and over and I do not pretend that Western journalists do not understand what is going on. I may or many not agree with their opinions, but to accuse them of being in someone's pocket simply because one doesn't agree with them is a pathetic excuse for one's blindness to opposing views.

But then, it is a very Thai trait to shoot the messenger rather than trying to understand the message.

Edited December 11, 2009 by Thai at Heart