kurnell Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 My house will be 2 years old in 3 weeks and I am forever wandering around the house repairing things that are falling off, apart or otherwise. This is not due to wear and tear, but simply because it was not done right the first time. I am also on at my employees on a daily basis to do their job right the first time, but it does absolutely no good. The moment I turn my back they are doing another quick fix so that they can go off and have a smoke, sleep or some other inactivity. This is not something that has occurred over the last few weeks, but an observation since I started working and living here in 1993. So, back to the topic, is this a case of laziness or is it a cultural thing not to take anything too seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mizzi39 Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 I think since the average laborer in Thailand makes about 150 baht PER DAY, building a home in the blazing heat, there may not be much incentive to do top quality work. It is not like the average Thai laborer is under contract or unionized. Most just go from one job to the next. They may show up and work for a week, then you never see them again because someone else offered easier work at a slightly higher rate. In order to develop consistency in the work place, the employer needs to offer some incentive to their employees. This in severely lacking in LOS. As far as houses go, there is no "house code" here, unlike in the west where the builder could face a hefty law suit for doing shoddy work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needforspeed Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Quality off your place has also to do with quality of materials and tools they using during constuction and offcourse qualified staff. Less paid staff need 24/7 a supervisor to do a job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PattayaParent Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Pay them more and you'll still get the same shoddy work. Have you found with your employees even when you train them to do something the way you want it done then after a while they will revert back to doing it their own way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
losworld Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 its really not that complicated... you pretend to pay them and they pretend to work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUDAS Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 (edited) Pay them more and you'll still get the same shoddy work.Have you found with your employees even when you train them to do something the way you want it done then after a while they will revert back to doing it their own way? Have to agree with you PP but, once I got my staff to realize that doing things my way actually meant they worked less in the long term, then things started running smoothly P.S. I also give my staff the opportunity to earn more based on performance etc. Edited December 9, 2009 by JUDAS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHM Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Things breaking down all the time is a constant stress. Its the price we pay for buying cheap stuff. I've now reached the view that we more we have the more there is to go bust, which acts as a real break on buying new gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeaceBlondie Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Other than a few roof tiles and a faucet tap, nothing in our new house broke in the first 10.4 months. My boss said "I barely give you time to do the job right. Fix your mistakes during lunch time." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geriatrickid Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 If you are going to have slaves then manage them accordingly, bring back an overseer with a whip. Remember that scene from Ben Hur where Judah is in the slave galley and the overseer says Ramming Speed and the drummer picks up the beat? Those boys were lashed and off they rowed. You didn't see those Romans passing out refreshing beverages, or leading a robust sing song did you? No molly coddling and the job got done. One can't be nice to these people as they are expendable chattel. Oh sure, you'll recoil in disgust and my Swiftian approach, however, if one is not willing to hire on quality staff and pay them accordingly, then ye shall reap as ye sow. There are plenty of well built structures in Thailand because the owners invested in quality and supervision. Ever look at some of the principal structures of western foreign missions? Someone knew what he or she was doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maccaroni man Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 IMHO all this talk of low wages does not hold water. I believe the fact is there are very few master builders in thailand hence the quality of building is not there because they have no idea what quality is. the reason i say wage has very little to do with it is because in Indonesia the wages are much less than in thailand but the builders in Bali put great effort in producing something they can be proud of. In Thailand Pride in work is something that i find quite lacking. I have too many stories to share about poor workmanship but i will say that on almost every occasion the forman could not see why i was complaining; the fish stinks from the head down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkkjames Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 I don't think it is ignorance or laziness, more like incompetence. Case in point, a few years ago we were moving offices to a well-known building on Sathorn. Our space was being renovated with new flooring, paint and lighting prior to moving in. A couple of weeks before moving in as they were nearing their completion, we did an inspection to see how it was shaping up. All was good except for one thing... they didn't put in any light switches. When queried the contractor walked us over the main circuit breaker box and said 'here, you pull this down and all the lights come on'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doggie888888 Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Believe me, Thais do not have a monopoly when it comes to "half arsed way of doing things" and/or laziness. Just ask the many people here who have used farang builders after being lulled into a false sense of comfort by advertisements of "European managed bla bla" to give the impression farang builders do at least have some minimum standards. As it often turns out, the only thing European is the price. When I pointed out some faults which I expected to be fixed (eg uneven rendering/painting, poor finishing on woodwork, damaged sandstone due to them splattering cement all over it etc etc), I was told by my farang builder: this is Thailand! Response to a leaky roof: well, sometimes it rains too much...as if the cracked/broken tiles they used and poor guttering had nothing to do with it Conversely, I know of somebody who used a Thai builder, but building in a Thai style...absolutely beautiful product of high quality. Magazine material! I should have used that Thai builder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuian Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Save yourself the heart attack and do it yourself and relax! Ever complained about what you, yourself did, is that always right and perfect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSingh Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 It's all about majorities & minorities, the same as everything in life.. I have been in the Construction Business in Thailand for the past 5 Years, i've witnessed things that have horrified me, made me laugh, made me clap & made me angry & it's all down to different things on my opinion such as incompetence, laziness & plain & simply not understanding & p*ss poor communication.. I also strongly believe that WE are the one's that are naive because we expect Thai's, the majority of whom in what we're talkign about are unskilled & extremely poor & for want of a better term, the bottom of society ladder amongst Thai's & get paid a pittance so why on Earth would we think that they'll just come in to build our House & we'll get a good, skilled Job done ?? Forget it.. Problem is, like many seem to think about the Women here, people think they're different, people take it personally when things go wrong but to the Thai's, both Labourers & the Women, it's juts work & you are no different to anyone else, no matter how much you pay them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucko Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 If you are going to have slaves then manage them accordingly, bring back an overseer with a whip.Remember that scene from Ben Hur where Judah is in the slave galley and the overseer says Ramming Speed and the drummer picks up the beat? Those boys were lashed and off they rowed. You didn't see those Romans passing out refreshing beverages, or leading a robust sing song did you? No molly coddling and the job got done. -------- The galley slaves had a loathing for Sundays-----thats when the Captain liked to Water Ski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beacher Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 its really not that complicated... you pretend to pay them and they pretend to work And if you really pay them....well, don't worry....they'll still pretend to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whichschool Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 I think since the average laborer in Thailand makes about 150 baht PER DAY, building a home in the blazing heat, there may not be much incentive to do top quality work. It is not like the average Thai laborer is under contract or unionized. Most just go from one job to the next. They may show up and work for a week, then you never see them again because someone else offered easier work at a slightly higher rate. Most British builders arent under contract or unionised theyre mainly self employed, hence why their jobs have all been taken over by cheap untrained Eastern Europeans. I think your answer is in there that Thais dont do apprenticeships to keep or get the standard up, and if they are told to do something one way even if its wrong they wont question authority and will do it, saying that if i can do as little as possible at work and get away with it i would. Health and safety in Thailand when it comes to any type of building work no matter how large or small is a complete fcuken joke, yesterdays one was someone grinding a paving slab in full view of the public potentially harming them with no kind of shield or eye protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeaceBlondie Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Forum rules: "8) Not to post extremely negative views of Thailand or derogatory comments directed towards all Thais." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWalkingMan Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 I think your answer is in there that Thais dont do apprenticeships to keep or get the standard up... I think there is the biggest problem. My impression is that the laborers are just grabbed and asked, "Hey, you want to work today?" The people on the job do not seem to know what they are doing. Hence the slipshod product. I bet that if you explained how long it took to be a master at building/construction/plumbing/electricity, they would not believe you or fall asleep. TheWalkingMan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bendejo Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 (edited) In many countries building contractors are notorious f-ups. The main cause is they'll disappear for a few days (or weeks) while everything is in an un-usable mess. California or Brazil, no difference. This is why I'll do as much I can myself, suggest you do the same. Another thing to consider is that you're employing someone to do something completely foreign to them. Eg, a woman who has been sleeping on a straw mat her whole life gets a job at a hotel cleaning rooms, and the the only place she has even seen bed linen before was on TV. A bumpkin who's never lived in a house with running water gets a job as a plumber. Edited December 9, 2009 by bendejo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geriatrickid Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Serious Question: Do they have real trade schools in Thailand? I know that in many countries you have to go to a trade school and then pass an apprenticeship in order to get your license. I think we all appreciate that a good tradesman is also a craftsman. A good carpenter has an inherent ability to sort out spatial configurations and to visualize his work. It's all stuff I cannot do, which I why I have respect for skilled tradespeople. I doubt many of the local workers receive proper training or education. I think even the most basic of vocational skills in many countries will graduate an electrician that understands what grounding a wire means. If the training and education isn't available, the end result will always be the same, won't it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mizzi39 Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Serious Question: Do they have real trade schools in Thailand? I know that in many countries you have to go to a trade school and then pass an apprenticeship in order to get your license. I think we all appreciate that a good tradesman is also a craftsman. A good carpenter has an inherent ability to sort out spatial configurations and to visualize his work. It's all stuff I cannot do, which I why I have respect for skilled tradespeople. I doubt many of the local workers receive proper training or education. I think even the most basic of vocational skills in many countries will graduate an electrician that understands what grounding a wire means. If the training and education isn't available, the end result will always be the same, won't it ? Well there are vocational schools in Thailand. I am not sure what vocational training is offered. i would imagine that carpentry, drafting, etc, would be offered. I have to agree with many of the other posts. Substandard materials, and a lack of training (or no training) will almost always produce shoddy work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lioness Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 I don't believe it's laziness or a cultural thing. It;s the way things are done here in the majority of cases. And because there are no official bodies governing home construction, you get what you get in many respects. You could double the wages and still end up with the same problems, when home building in Thailand you must be present the whole time, if you don't understannd the building process then hire someone who does. In the majority of cases they just don't have knowledge to do it any better. There is also the issue of quality of materials, many are not up the the stadards we are used to. I have built 3 homes, I get minor problems from time to time but I was on site the entire building time and overall I am happy with the outcome. And slightly off topic but, I remember one of my Carpenters offsiders (in Australia) asking me to up his wages, he said to me he would work better with more money, I said firstly show your worth and I will pay you accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pdaz Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Having worked offshore and overseas with quite a few Thai tradesmen I'm often horified at the quality of the work performed in Thailand by builders and repairman.. I've asked the guys I work with about it.. Their reply was that anyone who is any good at what they do.. or wants to work hard is working either offshore, overseas or for a big company in Bangkok where they have a chance of promotion and a decent pay level.. So when 'Somchai the builder' comes round to your house in his beaten up 10 yr old Isuzu you know you are only getting the leftovers... He's working locally cos either he's too lazy to get a decent job or he doesn't have the required skills, experience or drive to work for a decent wage with a decent company.. This isn't just in Thailand.. Motivated, hard working and skilled people often move, relocate or look for better oppotunities... The leftovers and lazy stay behind.. Why work for 200 baht a day as a welder when you can make 5000 USD a Month offshore or overseas.. (admittedly no everyone is able to or wants to go away to work) but this gives some idea why there seems to be a skills shortage... It's not just working overseas.. The big building companies, shopfitters and maintenance companies usually hire the cream.. The local coyboy building co gets the rest.. And as has been said before.. How does someone who has never had hot water in their house or a flush toilet become a plumber ? One other thing is nobody seems to specialise.. Can you tile ? ''Yes'' Can you do plumbing ''Yes'' can you do electric work '' Yes''... ''Jack of all trades, master of none'' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeaceBlondie Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 A poster teaches electric theory and application at a vo-tech school in Thailand. They issue multi-year diplomas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pdaz Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Trouble is qualifications mean little here because of the endemic corruption.. One of my previous GF's was help to pay her uni costs by writing papers/assignments for wealthy/lazy/dumb classmates... Other girls were sleeping with staff to get good grades and others had parents willing to pay for good grades... The whole system is rotten... Name and family is more important than ability... until that is fixed there is little hope ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JusMe Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Although it's clearly not restricted to Thailand, common sense seems to be very uncommon! For example, I had a bathroom renovated, by removing the bathtub - we left the faucets where they were, and put a shower with heating unit above the lot. My "worker" blocked off the already installed drain under those faucets and installed another in a further corner of the bathroom. Where's the common sense in that? Same worker, installing an outside electrical outlet for me, and I insisted on a weather protection casing, put it in with the electric wiring coming from the attic area into that casing from the top! Now there's a small opening I'm going to have to get sealed to ensure water won't drain into the casing! Now anyone (maybe?) with common sense, would understand the purpose of that casing and realize that the purpose would be defeated by leaving an opening in the top of it. Unfamiliarity with some aspects of western building might be a partial reason, but the lack of common sense is another major one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PattayaParent Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 IMHO all this talk of low wages does not hold water. I believe the fact is there are very few master builders in thailand hence the quality of building is not there because they have no idea what quality is. the reason i say wage has very little to do with it is because in Indonesia the wages are much less than in thailand but the builders in Bali put great effort in producing something they can be proud of. In Thailand Pride in work is something that i find quite lacking. I have too many stories to share about poor workmanship but i will say that on almost every occasion the forman could not see why i was complaining; the fish stinks from the head down. Gotta comletely agree with that post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeonjake Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 the way i see it, is if you get a farang builder, he will only go and hire the same crew that you could of got at half the price, simple thig is supervise yourself if you know a little about the building game, im lucky my dad in england was a builder and a member of the master craftsmans guild, so i do no a little and i can lay a few bricks, from helping dad in the school holidays, if not we all no someone farang who you could ask to project manage for you, just be on site, to spot the things that will go wrong, or should i say if he was there could of gone wrong, take care ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeonjake Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 its me again, sorry, ive just read a post about working over seas ect,im working in bkk as operations manager at the moment of a stainless steel fabrication shop, ive been a welder or welding supervisor for over 33yrs, let me tell you this ive got some sheet metal wroker/welders here that i would take anywere in the world with me, bloody good tradesmen, and our top welder/fab is on 425bht a day, and ive worked with some so called welders and other trades that couldnt hold a candle to some of these lads, and before you ask yes ive worked all over the world, in fact ill probly go to angola in the new year and give this job up, thats my rant over, there is some good lads about but its hard to find them, so if someone does find a good builder, post it on here, you could pay for them to live in a small resort while they did your house, it would be cheaper in the long run, help each other, thats the name of the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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