Once You Start To See Thai Society For What It Is

[phetaroi]

Finally, there absolutely has been a large amount of change in the basic Thai value system in the last decade. The changes probably go back lots further still, but I can only vouch for the tremendous change I have seen with my own eyes. When I first came to Thailand in 1996 or so, I had very high hopes that Buddhism would keep the Thai people from making the same mistakes that America went through. I hoped that tehy would understand that happiness does not come from owning things, and happiness was more important than getting still more things. Now it is almost eery as I see the same mistakes happening here as I saw in eastern USA back in the 50's. It is a horrible shame and it is like watching your teenage kids grow up. You know they are making decisions that they will regret later, but you are powerless to do anything but watch. You can warn them, but they just plain do not want to listen. And they won't, so get over it.

Probably one of the most perceptive observations ever written on TV.

[phetaroi]

I am happy to interact with Thai ladies.

I am always polite to Thai ladyboys.

I rarely have any interaction with Thai men, we simply have nothing the other wants.

Relationships out here are business orientated, if you have no business, you appear to have no relationship.

I quite enjoy it out here, it is certainly a paradise for me compared to the western world.

You have a very tiny perspective of the world that is Thailand.

Or maybe he's right and you have the "tiny perspective of the world that is Thailand"

There's a whole society of Thai people out there who are not Thai "ladies" or ladyboys.

[kensingto]

Racist??? If you think Thailand is racism, you should visit Japan and expect to see "No foreigner" (No Farang) sign on the entrance of restaurants in major cities.

Thailand is certainly a bit racism but not absolutely compare to Japan.

[Scott]

I've been through all 3 stages. Stage 3 just isn't any fun. Can't complain nearly as much as you can at stage 2. Sometimes I go back to Stage 1, but then I sober up!

Best of luck to you. I hope you find what you are looking for.

[Garry9999]

Finally, there absolutely has been a large amount of change in the basic Thai value system in the last decade. The changes probably go back lots further still, but I can only vouch for the tremendous change I have seen with my own eyes. When I first came to Thailand in 1996 or so, I had very high hopes that Buddhism would keep the Thai people from making the same mistakes that America went through. I hoped that tehy would understand that happiness does not come from owning things, and happiness was more important than getting still more things. Now it is almost eery as I see the same mistakes happening here as I saw in eastern USA back in the 50's. It is a horrible shame and it is like watching your teenage kids grow up. You know they are making decisions that they will regret later, but you are powerless to do anything but watch. You can warn them, but they just plain do not want to listen. And they won't, so get over it.

Probably one of the most perceptive observations ever written on TV.

Four Noble Truths

1. Suffering exists

2. Suffering arises from attachment to desires

3. Suffering ceases when attachment to desire ceases

4. Freedom from suffering is possible by practicing the Eightfold Path

[Credo]

I really don't like interacting with Thais.....but come to think of it I really don't like interacting with anyone!

[neverdie]

Some people, myself included, dont particularly want to interact with anyone not just Thais) I want a piece if land and a high wall, Thailand doesnt interfere with me much and that's how I like it.

I really don't like interacting with Thais.....but come to think of it I really don't like interacting with anyone!

I read both of these posts and p1ssed myself laughing, not mocking either of you & believe me I can appreciate what you are saying, but raise the obvious question, " If you don't want to react with anyone, why on earth are you posting on this forum?"

[Garry9999]

Some people, myself included, dont particularly want to interact with anyone not just Thais) I want a piece if land and a high wall, Thailand doesnt interfere with me much and that's how I like it.

I really don't like interacting with Thais.....but come to think of it I really don't like interacting with anyone!

I read both of these posts and p1ssed myself laughing, not mocking either of you & believe me I can appreciate what you are saying, but raise the obvious question, " If you don't want to react with anyone, why on earth are you posting on this forum?"

:D

[Ulysses G.]

Finally, there absolutely has been a large amount of change in the basic Thai value system in the last decade. The changes probably go back lots further still, but I can only vouch for the tremendous change I have seen with my own eyes. When I first came to Thailand in 1996 or so, I had very high hopes that Buddhism would keep the Thai people from making the same mistakes that America went through. I hoped that tehy would understand that happiness does not come from owning things, and happiness was more important than getting still more things. Now it is almost eery as I see the same mistakes happening here as I saw in eastern USA back in the 50's. It is a horrible shame and it is like watching your teenage kids grow up. You know they are making decisions that they will regret later, but you are powerless to do anything but watch. You can warn them, but they just plain do not want to listen. And they won't, so get over it.

Probably one of the most perceptive observations ever written on TV.

Not in my opinion. Whatever important "mistakes' that have been made in Thailand, happened long before 1996.

[Garry9999]

Finally, there absolutely has been a large amount of change in the basic Thai value system in the last decade. The changes probably go back lots further still, but I can only vouch for the tremendous change I have seen with my own eyes. When I first came to Thailand in 1996 or so, I had very high hopes that Buddhism would keep the Thai people from making the same mistakes that America went through. I hoped that tehy would understand that happiness does not come from owning things, and happiness was more important than getting still more things. Now it is almost eery as I see the same mistakes happening here as I saw in eastern USA back in the 50's. It is a horrible shame and it is like watching your teenage kids grow up. You know they are making decisions that they will regret later, but you are powerless to do anything but watch. You can warn them, but they just plain do not want to listen. And they won't, so get over it.

Probably one of the most perceptive observations ever written on TV.

Not in my opinion. Whatever important "mistakes' that have been made in Thailand, happened long before 1996.

Names the dates then.

[Ulysses G.]

Sorry, but I don't know when capitalism was first introduced here.

[neverdie]

Yeah UG has been around a while garry, but a few things happened here before even he arrived

[madjbs]

I am happy to interact with Thai ladies.

I am always polite to Thai ladyboys.

I rarely have any interaction with Thai men, we simply have nothing the other wants.

Spoken like a true sexpat......how sad.

we simply have nothing the other wants.

hmm... I wonder what that could be.....

[Garry9999]

Sorry, but I don't know when capitalism was first introduced here.

1933?

[madjbs]

That would be democracy not capitalism and it was 1932.

[Maizefarmer]

"I've been visiting Thailand on and off for a couple of years now. Seems to me they're taking much of the most horrible and embarrassing aspects of western culture and taking it to a whole new level. Lots of greed, lots of status desire. Lots of materialism. Everything I hate about western society, they are taking to with incredible enthusiasm. Are they so stupid to be duped by marketeers or are they just not very free thinking people? They also seem very racist.

If I stay here will my dislike of the people continue to grow or is this the natural ebb and flow of life in the LOS?

I'm thinking it's time to get out of here before it's too late......"

Most who read my comments on TV will know that wherever possible i try to add constructively to comments - even when I don't agree with what is been said .... after all, we are entitled to express our opinions and because we don't share the same outlook on a subject with someone else, doesn't mean we have to take the easy route out and join the mob.

This however is close to been an exception ....... Ruperts, your comments may well reflect your experieince and perception of Thailand and it's people, but after 20 years of living here ful time (and that doesnt include a large part of my childhood spent growing up in Thailand), I can assure you my friend that that is all it is i.e. your experience and perception - and far from reality it certainly is.

Theres this perception amongst many (some?) ex-pat visitors/short term stayers and repeat visitors that Thai's are inferior, that their ways are not as good/refined/sophisticated or developed as Caucasians or Westerners. This attitude is more a reflection of the prejudice and sense of superiority those individuals have of themselves and of their Western culture. It is ignorance on a grand scale.

Your understanding of "status" in Thai society is quite incorrect - that, or you don't understand it: in fact, there is little about "status" as it is expressed here that is unique to Thai society - it is common throughout many countries in Asia.

Thai's as an ethnic or social group (in Asian society) are no more or less racist than are Brit's or Amercians as an "ethnic" or social group (in Western society). Where is your evidence that they are? Why is it you think they are?

If anything in what you have said is credible, I'll give you this: indeed the rampant like and association Western society has with materiliasm and consumarism has not "transferred" well into the values of Asian society. The world is a fast changing place - technology has impacted on culturale groups the world over at a rate far faster than many Asian societies have been able to adapt at/to. The gap between the "haves" and "have nots" has grown, and wealth has become more and more concentrated amongst smaller and smaller groups in each society. Yes, there is certainly some truth to your comments in this regard, and most significantly it's with some irony that they are changes/forces that originate in Western culture. There is certainly corruption and excess greed amongst those in priviledged position(s) in Thailand, but I'll have you know something: there is excess greed and corruption in Western society as well - you only have to look at how UK parlimentarians abused and violated the trust that was given them regards their expense accounts - all, but a handful were "at it" so to speak. This was corruption and greed at it's worst - and where was it happening on the grandest of scales?? Amongst those representatives of that institution universaly held to be the father of democratic institutions - the UK parliment!

Lets not also forget the greed that has come to light now by way of the problems Western banking has suffered over the last couple years(??)

No sir - your observations may not be without merit, but to present them as charateristically Thai in type, or character carries no merit: that you can identify with them is in no small part because they are as much prevalent in Western culture and society as they are in Asia!!

Will your dislike of locals (Thai's) continue to grow if you stay here ......?

It certainly will unless you take time out to look at yourself and your attitude to those around you and how you interact with them. Remember, you take yourself with wherever you go in life - it's what you make of the oppurtunity. For every one person who comes across as you do, there are a truckload who have managed to fit in and adapt. My advice to you is: do just that, or the sooner you move on the better it will be.

Edited December 11, 2009 by Maizefarmer

[kensingto]

Do you guys believe in the law of attraction? If you see flowers, you get roses and if you see shit, you get ... The OP has some kind of negative thought that attract negative things to his life. No matter what country he travels to, he can only see and attract shit. What are you guys thinking ???

Edited December 11, 2009 by kensingto

[MrHammer]

Thai culture lacks depth. It's entirely superficial. That's a blessing and a curse. It's a blessing to not have to bother with the prefabricated mind control crap in the West, simply have fun, eat, drink, fornicate, but it's also a curse when any attempt at a deaper understanding is pointlesss. There is nothing. There's no philosphy, no books, no cinema, no music, no alternative culture.

These things for me, make Thailand a good enough base for the time being, but I will never consider raising a family here.

[madjbs]

There is nothing. There's no philosphy, no books, no cinema, no music, no alternative culture.

That you are aware of perhaps, or find interesting.

Edited December 11, 2009 by madjbs

[madjbs]

The arrogance, superiority complex and ignorance of many farangs here in Thailand never ceases to amaze me.

[Garry9999]

"I've been visiting Thailand on and off for a couple of years now. Seems to me they're taking much of the most horrible and embarrassing aspects of western culture and taking it to a whole new level. Lots of greed, lots of status desire. Lots of materialism. Everything I hate about western society, they are taking to with incredible enthusiasm. Are they so stupid to be duped by marketeers or are they just not very free thinking people? They also seem very racist.

If I stay here will my dislike of the people continue to grow or is this the natural ebb and flow of life in the LOS?

I'm thinking it's time to get out of here before it's too late......"

Most who read my comments on TV will know that wherever possible i try to add constructively to comments - even when I don't agree with what is been said .... after all, we are entitled to express our opinions and because we don't share the same outlook on a subject with someone else, doesn't mean we have to take the easy route out and join the mob.

This however is close to been an exception ....... Ruperts, your comments may well reflect your experieince and perception of Thailand and it's people, but after 20 years of living here ful time (and that doesnt include a large part of my childhood spent growing up in Thailand), I can assure you my friend that that is all it is i.e. your experience and perception - and far from reality it certainly is.

Theres this perception amongst many (some?) ex-pat visitors/short term stayers and repeat visitors that Thai's are inferior, that their ways are not as good/refined/sophisticated or developed as Caucasians or Westerners. This attitude is more a reflection of the prejudice and sense of superiority those individuals have of themselves and of their Western culture. It is ignorance on a grand scale.

Your understanding of "status" in Thai society is quite incorrect - that, or you don't understand it: in fact, there is little about "status" as it is expressed here that is unique to Thai society - it is common throughout many countries in Asia.

Thai's as an ethnic or social group (in Asian society) are no more or less racist than are Brit's or Amercians as an "ethnic" or social group (in Western society). Where is your evidence that they are? Why is it you think they are?

If anything in what you have said is credible, I'll give you this: indeed the rampant like and association Western society has with materiliasm and consumarism has not "transferred" well into the values of Asian society. The world is a fast changing place - technology has impacted on culturale groups the world over at a rate far faster than many Asian societies have been able to adapt at/to. The gap between the "haves" and "have nots" has grown, and wealth has become more and more concentrated amongst smaller and smaller groups in each society. Yes, there is certainly some truth to your comments in this regard, and most significantly it's with some irony that they are changes/forces that originate in Western culture. There is certainly corruption and excess greed amongst those in priviledged position(s) in Thailand, but I'll have you know something: there is excess greed and corruption in Western society as well - you only have to look at how UK parlimentarians abused and violated the trust that was given them regards their expense accounts - all, but a handful were "at it" so to speak. This was corruption and greed at it's worst - and where was it happening on the grandest of scales?? Amongst those representatives of that institution universaly held to be the father of democratic institutions - the UK parliment!

Lets not also forget the greed that has come to light now by way of the problems Western banking has suffered over the last couple years(??)

No sir - your observations may not be without merit, but to present them as charateristically Thai in type, or character carries no merit: that you can identify with them is in no small part because they are as much prevalent in Western culture and society as they are in Asia!!

Will your dislike of locals (Thai's) continue to grow if you stay here ......?

It certainly will unless you take time out to look at yourself and your attitude to those around you and how you interact with them. Remember, you take yourself with wherever you go in life - it's what you make of the oppurtunity. For every one person who comes across as you do, there are a truckload who have managed to fit in and adapt. My advice to you is: do just that, or the sooner you move on the better it will be.

Apologist - a person who argues to defend or justify some policy or institution.

[cognos]

..if you don't like the way Thailand copies the west ( I don't either), consider how the west got the way it is, rampant materialism, me first attitude ( in general), not helping your neighbour, "2 cars" in every garage, the National Enquirer, mentality, rules, rules rules..etc..

[MrHammer]

There is nothing. There's no philosphy, no books, no cinema, no music, no alternative culture.

That you are aware of perhaps, or find interesting.

Yes, I should obviously have said for ME.

For the record, I don't think Thais are any less honest or intelligent than other people. I like Thailand and the Thais, but I still think much of Thai society is a uniform straightjacket that doesn't leave much room for individual thought.

[MSingh]

Three stages to life in Thailand

1.Thailand is paradise, the people are wonderful everythign is perfect.

Disillusion sets in and then you hit stage 2. Thailand is awful, Thai people are horrible, its a hel_l on earth

and finally stage 3, which some people never reach: Thailand is just a place, like any other, with good and bad people like everywhere else.

I'm hovering between 2 & 3 after 6 Years...

[Ruperts]

This however is close to been an exception ....... Ruperts, your comments may well reflect your experieince and perception of Thailand and it's people, but after 20 years of living here ful time (and that doesnt include a large part of my childhood spent growing up in Thailand), I can assure you my friend that that is all it is i.e. your experience and perception - and far from reality it certainly is.

Theres this perception amongst many (some?) ex-pat visitors/short term stayers and repeat visitors that Thai's are inferior, that their ways are not as good/refined/sophisticated or developed as Caucasians or Westerners. This attitude is more a reflection of the prejudice and sense of superiority those individuals have of themselves and of their Western culture. It is ignorance on a grand scale.

Interesting post, Maizefarmer, and I must say that I have been suprised by the lack of apologists in this thread, so it is nice to see someone defending the Kingdom.

I do take exception to your assumption that I believe Thai's to be 'inferior', because I certainly don't. I treat people as individuals as I would expect to be treated in return.

But is their culture inferior?

At 2.30am it's difficult to think of any set criteria by which this can be measured. But a few things that instantly come to mind are the nationalistic attitude - not allowing foreigners to buy land, this is racism, however you package it, and by western standards is very backwards. Corruption at every level. Talking about the UK Great Expenses Scandal is very 2009, but does it really compare to a persons ability to commit murder and then buy themselves out of jail? I don't think so. Not even close.

Other things: sports, arts, music, science, technology, space programs, medicine, you name it... On the world stage Thailand is well behind. This is obviously no fault of any individual Thai, but is this an indication of an inferior culture? I think you'd struggle to argue otherwise.

I would like to make it clear again that it is not so much the people I dislike but the culture and more specifically where it is headed.

Perhaps you have been in Thailand too long, MF, and haven't been to the west to see the destruction of society that has been a direct result of our culture. Fortunately, there are increasingly large waves of well-aimed discontent spreading through the west which should pave the way for actual change. I see Thailand adopting our self destructive ways with such gusto, that my worry is that they won't see the problems beginning, maybe they won't care, mai pen rai, and even if they do, it might be too late. Unlike you, I've seen it once already, and in a country which I could so easily like so much, it hurts to see it happening again.

Edited December 11, 2009 by Ruperts

[Sabre]

I said it on another thread some time ago but it's worth repeating here: what most people are willing to say about most Thais is more reflective of those speaking than it is of the Thais.

As a corollary- there are all kinds of people out there in Thailand (there would have to be, right?). If it seems you are only meeting one kind of person, what is the common denominator, then?

Wise words indeed.

"You will find only what you bring in."

(Yoda quote)

[Earl]

This is a nation of 65 million with an extraordinary variety of humanity. You are the mirror and the treatment you receive from others is the result of "what you put out there". If you genuinely see the beauty and love in folk this will be reflected back to you. Just wear your best smile and make it come from your heart. Drop those western defenses and attitudes. People here are really quite nice . . . if you are.

[Terminator]

Maybe it isnt just a Thai thing but money/status/beauty is more important in Asia then the evil Western world, but it seems more important in LOS then any other nation ive been to in the region.

Not true, just go to China, Singapore, Hong Kong, Indonesia, its the same thing over there!

[sceadugenga]

Three stages to life in Thailand

1.Thailand is paradise, the people are wonderful everythign is perfect.

Disillusion sets in and then you hit stage 2. Thailand is awful, Thai people are horrible, its a hel_l on earth

and finally stage 3, which some people never reach: Thailand is just a place, like any other, with good and bad people like everywhere else.

And if you're really lucky, like me, you skip stage 2.

Or maybe it's still to come?

[oevna]

if you want to live in a racist society, go to the U.S.!

I would take that a step further and say "if you want to live in a racist society, live in any society made up of people."