Once You Start To See Thai Society For What It Is

[pjclark1]

I've never had much respect for people who spend any significant amount of time hanging around bars. I don't see that type having a very fulfilling family life...and in fact seen it ruin plenty of families...including my father's and grandfather's. To each his own. Hang where you like...you have very right to do so. But don't expect many of us to be very impressed with the Thai experience you are having.

Family life!

Family life in the western world involves a man being owned and controlled by a woman. Some of us men have actually escaped from the slavery that is known as 'family life' in the western world. Those men who participate in 'family life' own nothing and are merely money producing machines for the woman who owns them.

Enjoy your 'family life' while you can, then see your dreams dissolve when the wife takes everything you own (including your children) away from you.

[Bizz]

I do take exception to your assumption that I believe Thai's to be 'inferior', because I certainly don't. I treat people as individuals as I would expect to be treated in return.

But is their culture inferior?

At 2.30am it's difficult to think of any set criteria by which this can be measured. But a few things that instantly come to mind are the nationalistic attitude - not allowing foreigners to buy land, this is racism, however you package it, and by western standards is very backwards. Corruption at every level. Talking about the UK Great Expenses Scandal is very 2009, but does it really compare to a persons ability to commit murder and then buy themselves out of jail? I don't think so. Not even close.

Other things: sports, arts, music, science, technology, space programs, medicine, you name it... On the world stage Thailand is well behind. This is obviously no fault of any individual Thai, but is this an indication of an inferior culture? I think you'd struggle to argue otherwise.

I would like to make it clear again that it is not so much the people I dislike but the culture and more specifically where it is headed.

Perhaps you have been in Thailand too long, MF, and haven't been to the west to see the destruction of society that has been a direct result of our culture. Fortunately, there are increasingly large waves of well-aimed discontent spreading through the west which should pave the way for actual change. I see Thailand adopting our self destructive ways with such gusto, that my worry is that they won't see the problems beginning, maybe they won't care, mai pen rai, and even if they do, it might be too late. Unlike you, I've seen it once already, and in a country which I could so easily like so much, it hurts to see it happening again.

Ruperts

The rule preventing foreigners from purchasing land is not racist – for a start it’s legislation that applies to ex-pat Westerners as much as it applies to South Koreans or Japanese as it applies to ethnic Thai’s who hold foreign passports!! …… and it’s not exclusively Thai either, other Asian countries have the same or very similar legislation.

It is primarily an economic policy to protect national land values from been distorted through the comparatively stronger buying power of nationals and companies from many Western/European and certain other Asian countries.

Look what has happened in Cambodia recently - when a certain Mid-East state organization tried to purchase land there – it distorted regional land prices so much so that locals, who through their comparatively waeker financial standing found themselves priced out of their own national land markets!

That is why Thailand (and other Asian countries) have restrictions on foreigners owning land, and as said, it’s a policy that applies equally to ethnic Thai’s with foreign nationality as it applies to Westeners, Koreans, Japanese and other foreign nationals..

Your comments:

“Other things: sports, arts, music, science, technology, space programs, medicine, you name it... On the world stage Thailand is well behind. This is obviously no fault of any individual Thai, but is this an indication of an inferior culture? I think you'd struggle to argue otherwise……”

do not single Thailand out at all – they are characteristics that you could say of 101 other countries around the world.

These are characteristics in many ways the preserve of wealthy 1st world nations – Western Europe or the USA – and in many respects like your comments regards land ownership, revolve around the comparative financial & economic status of the West versus Asia – and there is nothing in them that is exclusively Thai.

Your comments regards the legal system are though a point I agree with - Thailand has a shocking legal track record, and a police force that is severly lacking in leadership and integrity.

Lastly, I am not an apologist for Thai's or Thailand - I am all to aware of the problems and failings in this country: from it's corrupt police to it's abuse of human rights, to it's bent judiciary as mentioned earlier, to it's chaotic politics and nepotism ...... the place is far from perfect, but little of what you have highlighted is in any way "Thai" - it is charcteristic of many Asian countries.

As you seem to think you know but are clearly wrong ......

What I want is friendly conversation and company in an environment where I attempt to talk Thai and they attempt to talk English, without me footing the bill the entire time. Native English speakers are also welcome.

Rather strangely the Thai ladies and ladyboys provide this environment (once they realise I'm not going to be a customer), but the Thai men and gays don't. I seem to have accumulated a lot of bar girl 'friends' to whom I have never given money or bought drinks but who appear to be happy to sit with me and help me with my Thai reading and writing or just chat. Sometimes paying customers are ignored which s just plain wierd. I'm sure they are after something, but maybe on a more long term plan or maybe they just like to talk with a guy who has no interest in shagging them and treats them like real people (a dangerous thought for me to have).

The Thai men I encounter never give up with trying to get a free drink, play pool with them and when you inevitably lose "where is the drink you owe me for losing" and usually a bit of aggression to back it up. Result, when I play pool against a white man or Thai lady and win, I always make an excuse not to play on against a Thai guy whose name was on the board next.

If you think anyone who has a Thai gf is a 'sexpat' then I must admit to being one, I have been with the same gf for 9 months and not really considered sex with any other person. I have been to Pattaya once with my gf, only stayed for 2 days as it was just about the worst place in the world I have ever visited (IMHO). I would certainly never consider sex with anyone who had spent a significant time in the western world again, sorry the thought of all the bs that goes with that makes my flesh crawl.

I like Thailand, great place to live, much more personal freedom than the west (once you get your head round the 90 day reporting), plenty of <deleted> of all races and nationalities around, same as everywhere else in the world. Once identified I won't sit at a table with them.

I've never had much respect for people who spend any significant amount of time hanging around bars. I don't see that type having a very fulfilling family life...and in fact seen it ruin plenty of families...including my father's and grandfather's. To each his own. Hang where you like...you have very right to do so. But don't expect many of us to be very impressed with the Thai experience you are having.

the last comment i understood.

for me i found peace and fulfillment in Thailand in more way's than one, some times I'd like to lose the cool but i refrain because of my love for a people who have given me there love

'

[Bizz]

Maize farmer i also totally agree with your comments

[cpofc]

My 40th Anniversary next year. March 1970, at the tender age of 16 I arrived for the first time. Remember the good old days? Before consumer credit, hypermarts and shopping malls? When status was all about how much gold you could wear on your body. hel_l, when I met my (thai) wife 27 years ago and took her to Australia I was complaining about the same thing then. Thais are extremely status conscious people. Why wouldn't they be? It is a 'class society' after all.

Many people have this strange idea about Thais. I guess it is the way Thailand is promoted to the world with its heavy emphasis on Buddhism, many farangs have this strange notion that all thais practice buddhism, daily, to its enth degreee. This is simply not the case. it would be nice to think that all Christians living in 'Christian' Countries practised true Christianity on a daily basis, and we won't even go into the Muslims. But they don't do they. Well, niether do the thais. The are just human beings and they are just catching up with the rest of the developed world - becoming victims of greed, excess and consumerism just like all of us.

I am a lone farang, one out, living in outer suburban bangkok. I am, for all accounts and purposes, very much a part of my local 'Thai Society'. One of my thai mates was complaining to me the other day about being 'stitched up' by a neighbour over the purchase of a house. he found out he paid 200,000.00 more than he should have, Lamenting that he did not think a long time neighbour and friend could do that. Welcome to the real world.

There is good and bad people everywhere. The good parts of thai society are what I love - the bad parts I stay away from and avoid. I know very well never to come between two thais or take sides in an argument or fight. Yes the Thais are extremely parochial and yes, just like in my country, some are even 'racist', but on the whole I don't have a problem. One thing that has developed along with their country is their sense of humour. Thai humour has become alot more sophisticated and less slapstick than it was many years ago. The Thais have a very healthy sense of humour and fun these days, if you can tap into it.

We are really geared up for the festive season in my Soi, Parties, BBQs, lots of music, drinking, singing, eating, nights out with the boys, playing up and having fun. And unlike where I come from, I can do all this without risking getting my head kicked in or a knife stuck in my guts.

With all its faults, I am as happy as i am ever going to be right now in the LOS.

Sabai sabai krab.

[eek]

I've never had much respect for people who spend any significant amount of time hanging around bars. I don't see that type having a very fulfilling family life...and in fact seen it ruin plenty of families...including my father's and grandfather's. To each his own. Hang where you like...you have very right to do so. But don't expect many of us to be very impressed with the Thai experience you are having.

Family life!

Family life in the western world involves a man being owned and controlled by a woman. Some of us men have actually escaped from the slavery that is known as 'family life' in the western world. Those men who participate in 'family life' own nothing and are merely money producing machines for the woman who owns them.

Enjoy your 'family life' while you can, then see your dreams dissolve when the wife takes everything you own (including your children) away from you.

This may have been you (and some others) experiences, and i feel bad for you, but dont assume that about everyone. If a woman has a negative experience with a man from the west, does that make all western men the same? If a woman has MANY negative experiences with men..she should probably start questioning as to why this is happening. I see the flip side of the "all western women are bad, Asian women are my dream" type thinking, where a man may get stung by a Thai girl(s) and suddenly they are disillusioned with Thai women also. Some women in the west make great partners, some dont. Same here. Same with the men. I honestly hope that the men who come here as a "retreat" in some way, learn to let go of this way of thinking.

[Geekfreaklover]

I've never had much respect for people who spend any significant amount of time hanging around bars. I don't see that type having a very fulfilling family life...and in fact seen it ruin plenty of families...including my father's and grandfather's. To each his own. Hang where you like...you have very right to do so. But don't expect many of us to be very impressed with the Thai experience you are having.

Family life!

Family life in the western world involves a man being owned and controlled by a woman. Some of us men have actually escaped from the slavery that is known as 'family life' in the western world. Those men who participate in 'family life' own nothing and are merely money producing machines for the woman who owns them.

Enjoy your 'family life' while you can, then see your dreams dissolve when the wife takes everything you own (including your children) away from you.

This may have been you (and some others) experiences, and i feel bad for you, but dont assume that about everyone. If a woman has a negative experience with a man from the west, does that make all western men the same? If a woman has MANY negative experiences with men..she should probably start questioning as to why this is happening. I see the flip side of the "all western women are bad, Asian women are my dream" type thinking, where a man may get stung by a Thai girl(s) and suddenly they are disillusioned with Thai women also. Some women in the west make great partners, some dont. Same here. Same with the men. I honestly hope that the men who come here as a "retreat" in some way, learn to let go of this way of thinking.

I agree with this. It's sad to see people come from a bad marriage in the west and then think that everything is 'different' in thailand only to make the same mistakes and get stung again. Happens all the time. Sad.

[madjbs]

Quite funny as well though, they inevitably blame all and everyone except themselves.

[popshirt]

Many Thais think, that farangs think, they are superior to them and look down on them.

If I can sense that in any situation then I automatically become "Humble and Friendly" and on a "level".

I don't look down on anyone and if I'm in a situation where a local is instantly unfriendly I will reverse it so they know I'm friendly and not some big, "I am" arrogant farang!

It works for me and I have lived here permanently for 3 years and love the place.

This tallies with my own experience and I think is the best "advice" so far!

[bonobo]

I think all this talk about "inferior" and superior" cultures is rather ridiculous.  It all depends on the lens from which you are observing a society. Posters who argue that Western society is "superior" because of sports, technology, etc are judging Thailand based the the very things which Westerners tend to find important, and by finding them important, their societies tend to focus on them.  From a Thai point of view, these things don't have the same importance (well they love football and would love to have a World Cup team, but judging how "inferior" a culture is based on a game is rather specious.)

Thais tend to think that many things we take for granted in the West show a weakness in our cultures.  School shootings are often used as an example of a society gone wrong.  A society where old folks are locked up in retirement homes instead of living with their children.  A high divorce rate.  These are things which are deemed indicative of a morally deficient society when looked at through a Thai lens.

Westerners tend to look at tea money, lack of driving manners and adherence to traffic laws, and the matter of not bringing problems to the attention of others as indicative of societal deficiencies when looked though a Western lens.

All of these are hard to argue in isolation, but we tend to focus on the deficiencies of other societies and gloss over the deficiencies on our own.

[WaiWai]

Are we discussing (or "discussing" ) "society" or "culture"?

Sure, the two are related but are by no means the same.

[carmine]

In this country money is number one. End of story. Anyone who can't accept this is living in cloud cookoo land. It was obvious to see since i first arrived here years ago. OK, it's become seemingly more important in recent years, but regardless it's always been the most important issue. I accept this because i happen to like this place. But, always be aware that your importance for want of a better word is basically down to how much money you have.

...

I can't imagine which western country you are from where money is not number 1.

Kop out answer....you know what i mean

If you come from a background where you know what being a "have not" is, then I think there may be even more of a tendency to value "stuff" when you suddenly can. The thinking on the part of some of the Thais I know is very similar to the Depression thinking of my grandparents -- never waste a thing, never throw anything away, eat food even when you hate it. So now the Thai middle class is growing. Why wouldn't they want to "graduate" to having more possessions. Seems like human nature to me.

That's a fair point. All iwill add is that i have never been anywhere where i have heard so many tourists comment "what is this thing about money" as i have in my time living here.

[Ulysses G.]

Spend some time in Vietnam!

[sabaijai]

Oh dear, yet another bitter old fool who thinks they are an expert on Thai society after a couple of holidays.

It's called culture shock.

[richieudon]

I think all this talk about "inferior" and superior" cultures is rather ridiculous. It all depends on the lens from which you are observing a society. Posters who argue that Western society is "superior" because of sports, technology, etc are judging Thailand based the the very things which Westerners tend to find important, and by finding them important, their societies tend to focus on them. From a Thai point of view, these things don't have the same importance (well they love football and would love to have a World Cup team, but judging how "inferior" a culture is based on a game is rather specious.)

Thais tend to think that many things we take for granted in the West show a weakness in our cultures. School shootings are often used as an example of a society gone wrong. A society where old folks are locked up in retirement homes instead of living with their children. A high divorce rate. These are things which are deemed indicative of a morally deficient society when looked at through a Thai lens.

Westerners tend to look at tea money, lack of driving manners and adherence to traffic laws, and the matter of not bringing problems to the attention of others as indicative of societal deficiencies when looked though a Western lens.

All of these are hard to argue in isolation, but we tend to focus on the deficiencies of other societies and gloss over the deficiencies on our own.

Well said, I couldn't agree more. I have read all 6 pages of posts on this matter and yours was the one that took the words from my mouth!

[pjclark1]

This may have been you (and some others) experiences, and i feel bad for you, but dont assume that about everyone. If a woman has a negative experience with a man from the west, does that make all western men the same? If a woman has MANY negative experiences with men..she should probably start questioning as to why this is happening. I see the flip side of the "all western women are bad, Asian women are my dream" type thinking, where a man may get stung by a Thai girl(s) and suddenly they are disillusioned with Thai women also. Some women in the west make great partners, some dont. Same here. Same with the men. I honestly hope that the men who come here as a "retreat" in some way, learn to let go of this way of thinking.

The problem is, Eek old girl, the the western legal system enables any woman with children to behave in that way. I would like to suggest that many women in the west are pressed into the 'taking everything they can' by their solicitors and their friends, they don't need to be 'bad' by any means, they do it because they can. I don't particularly care what one woman does, but merely point out that EVERY woman can do this if she has children. Of course more and more women are taking this action when they get fed up or bored with their partners (they don't even need to be married).

Men in the western world with a partner and children under 19 essentially have no property rights of any sort, it can all be taken from them in a very short space of time.

In the UK

step 1

Woman goes to police and says man is dangerous and mentally cruel

A court order will be issued within 14 days without the man knowing, evicting him from the house. No evidence is required by the woman, her word is good enough.

step 2

Tell the court the man is likely to harm his children, this will prevent him having contact with them for the foreseeable future.

step 3

file for divorce on grounds of unreasonable behaviour. Within 6 months the house will be assigned into the womans sole possession.

During the process dial 999 every time you see the man and report him for stalking, this will ensure he has a criminal record and will be held in jail while questioned.

See how easy that is!

No evidence is required in family court in the UK.

Edited December 13, 2009 by pjclark1

[sotsira]

I've been living in Thailand for the last six years and although i do need to bite my tongue in certain situations,

the pro's still outweigh the cons when i compare Thailand with living in a western society where i originate from.

Just remember that no place on earth is perfect, but some places are far better than others.

[bonobo]

This may have been you (and some others) experiences, and i feel bad for you, but dont assume that about everyone. If a woman has a negative experience with a man from the west, does that make all western men the same? If a woman has MANY negative experiences with men..she should probably start questioning as to why this is happening. I see the flip side of the "all western women are bad, Asian women are my dream" type thinking, where a man may get stung by a Thai girl(s) and suddenly they are disillusioned with Thai women also. Some women in the west make great partners, some dont. Same here. Same with the men. I honestly hope that the men who come here as a "retreat" in some way, learn to let go of this way of thinking.

The problem is, Eek old girl, the the western legal system enables any woman with children to behave in that way. I would like to suggest that many women in the west are pressed into the 'taking everything they can' by their solicitors and their friends, they don't need to be 'bad' by any means, they do it because they can. I don't particularly care what one woman does, but merely point out that EVERY woman can do this if she has children. Of course more and more women are taking this action when they get fed up or bored with their partners (they don't even need to be married).

Men in the western world with a partner and children under 19 essentially have no property rights of any sort, it can all be taken from them in a very short space of time.

In the UK

step 1

Woman goes to police and says man is dangerous and mentally cruel

A court order will be issued within 14 days without the man knowing, evicting him from the house. No evidence is required by the woman, her word is good enough.

step 2

Tell the court the man is likely to harm his children, this will prevent him having contact with them for the foreseeable future.

step 3

file for divorce on grounds of unreasonable behaviour. Within 6 months the house will be assigned into the womans sole possession.

During the process dial 999 every time you see the man and report him for stalking, this will ensure he has a criminal record and will be held in jail while questioned.

See how easy that is!

No evidence is required in family court in the UK.

This really straying further and further off-topic, but I have to post that in California, at least, nothing could be further from reality. For good or bad, depending on what side of the fence you are on, California treats both married members equally. I know plenty of men who have been awarded custody of their children and who receive child support payments.  Two I know even receive alimony (spousal support.)  One man was falsely accused of sexual predation on his children, and once the court determined the charge was trumped up, the ex-wife lost all spousal support as well as custody of the girl.

In Thailand, it seems that men often get away without supporting children after a break-up, although some posters on TV have related that men have supported children and ex-wives.  I would rather have a system where the children's rights are protected above all else, even if some men could get the shaft.  But as I posted, from my narrow perspective with California family law, I think it is hard for either spouse to get really shafted.

[cmdream]

IMHO

You have discerned the essence of being a farang in LOS

you will always be a despised farang be it 1 year or 20+ years residence and the locals will never stop looking to take advantage of you, poison your life or worse.

After several disastrous encounters you will find that the best course is to keep as far removed from contact with locals as practicable. Most of the long timers I know have adopted that stance. But its an empty kind of existance which old fellas become used to but not suited to young blades.

FWIW

Get out now young man and dont waste your time

Ouch, after 4 years here you have put into words my perceptions. We are a fish out of water here. Enjoy Thailand for what it is, a distant and wonderful place to be a part of your life. You will never feel at home here, just a traveler on his way to somewhere else. You will be tolerated and treated with respect as long as you spend money. Same everywhere I guess. It's a nice place to hang out for a few years. Nice people, good food and drink, many things to see and do. Volunteer at a school, support an orphanage or a temple for self esteem, there are many things we can do but you will always feel like an outsider. This is not all that bad once you learn the downside. Just enjoy but keep your own company. Chok dee.

[caf]

Seek out the deviant Thais. Thais are human beings, you will find much variety under the superficial surface.

Avoiding them may be better than seeking them out

( Or perhaps that is what you really meant)

[caf]

This may have been you (and some others) experiences, and i feel bad for you, but dont assume that about everyone. If a woman has a negative experience with a man from the west, does that make all western men the same? If a woman has MANY negative experiences with men..she should probably start questioning as to why this is happening. I see the flip side of the "all western women are bad, Asian women are my dream" type thinking, where a man may get stung by a Thai girl(s) and suddenly they are disillusioned with Thai women also. Some women in the west make great partners, some dont. Same here. Same with the men. I honestly hope that the men who come here as a "retreat" in some way, learn to let go of this way of thinking.

The problem is, Eek old girl, the the western legal system enables any woman with children to behave in that way. I would like to suggest that many women in the west are pressed into the 'taking everything they can' by their solicitors and their friends, they don't need to be 'bad' by any means, they do it because they can. I don't particularly care what one woman does, but merely point out that EVERY woman can do this if she has children. Of course more and more women are taking this action when they get fed up or bored with their partners (they don't even need to be married).

Men in the western world with a partner and children under 19 essentially have no property rights of any sort, it can all be taken from them in a very short space of time.

In the UK

step 1

Woman goes to police and says man is dangerous and mentally cruel

A court order will be issued within 14 days without the man knowing, evicting him from the house. No evidence is required by the woman, her word is good enough.

step 2

Tell the court the man is likely to harm his children, this will prevent him having contact with them for the foreseeable future.

step 3

file for divorce on grounds of unreasonable behaviour. Within 6 months the house will be assigned into the womans sole possession.

During the process dial 999 every time you see the man and report him for stalking, this will ensure he has a criminal record and will be held in jail while questioned.

See how easy that is!

No evidence is required in family court in the UK.

That is absolute BS.

No evidence required !!! Evicted in 14 days !!

[cmdream]

This may have been you (and some others) experiences, and i feel bad for you, but dont assume that about everyone. If a woman has a negative experience with a man from the west, does that make all western men the same? If a woman has MANY negative experiences with men..she should probably start questioning as to why this is happening. I see the flip side of the "all western women are bad, Asian women are my dream" type thinking, where a man may get stung by a Thai girl(s) and suddenly they are disillusioned with Thai women also. Some women in the west make great partners, some dont. Same here. Same with the men. I honestly hope that the men who come here as a "retreat" in some way, learn to let go of this way of thinking.

The problem is, Eek old girl, the the western legal system enables any woman with children to behave in that way. I would like to suggest that many women in the west are pressed into the 'taking everything they can' by their solicitors and their friends, they don't need to be 'bad' by any means, they do it because they can. I don't particularly care what one woman does, but merely point out that EVERY woman can do this if she has children. Of course more and more women are taking this action when they get fed up or bored with their partners (they don't even need to be married).

Men in the western world with a partner and children under 19 essentially have no property rights of any sort, it can all be taken from them in a very short space of time.

In the UK

step 1

Woman goes to police and says man is dangerous and mentally cruel

A court order will be issued within 14 days without the man knowing, evicting him from the house. No evidence is required by the woman, her word is good enough.

step 2

Tell the court the man is likely to harm his children, this will prevent him having contact with them for the foreseeable future.

step 3

file for divorce on grounds of unreasonable behaviour. Within 6 months the house will be assigned into the womans sole possession.

During the process dial 999 every time you see the man and report him for stalking, this will ensure he has a criminal record and will be held in jail while questioned.

See how easy that is!

No evidence is required in family court in the UK.

That is absolute BS.

No evidence required !!! Evicted in 14 days !!

Not BS, same in the USA, woman goes to cops and claims mental cruelty and gets a restraining order good for 90 days. You are out of your house and on the street. No investigation, no recourse then its downhill from there.

[Gerontion]

Are they so stupid to be duped by marketeers or are they just not very free thinking people? They also seem very racist.

Do you mean racist as in making completely groundless negative judgements which apply to an entire ethnic group? Something like, I don't know, Thai people are all stupid and can't think for themselves. Is that what you mean?

[Loz]

THailand: Its not for everyone.

Short tempers are not suited to life here

Deep thinkers might find out too much too soon

Regular folk with some disposable income can enjoy it for what it is

Folk who've lost money here are bound to be bitter

Folk watching folk losing money are bound to be entertained

Marrying a woman who was 12 when you were in your mid thirties is likely to present challenges

Expecting people with a radically different upbringing to "understand" your ways is optimistic

All this I've learned living here nearly 4 years. In the Next four years who knows how those views will change. What I like about life is that few things stay the same. What I dislike about life.... is that few things stay the same.

[tb86]

THailand: Its not for everyone.

Short tempers are not suited to life here

Deep thinkers might find out too much too soon

Regular folk with some disposable income can enjoy it for what it is

Folk who've lost money here are bound to be bitter

Folk watching folk losing money are bound to be entertained

Marrying a woman who was 12 when you were in your mid thirties is likely to present challenges

Expecting people with a radically different upbringing to "understand" your ways is optimistic

All this I've learned living here nearly 4 years. In the Next four years who knows how those views will change. What I like about life is that few things stay the same. What I dislike about life.... is that few things stay the same.

after 6 pages this has to be my #1 pick for makes the most sense, amen brother

[johncat1]

I thought like you too after a few holidays here .

But now I live and work as a teacher in North East Thailand and the people are very different up here.

I am the only foreigner living in this area of 25,000 people. And I am always treated well and with respect .

I would NEVER live in a Farang infested area because I find these areas only attract the worst type of foreigner and Thai

And most Farangs want to set up their own communities instead of integrating into Thai society

Unfortunately the Thais are followers NOT leaders which is why you always get streets where every shop is a hairdressers or another street where every shop is an Internet shop etc . The Thais are great at copying but are afraid of taking a chance with an original thought or idea.

Bribery and corruption are a way of life here in all levels of society

This is Thailand accept it and seek out the better areas Don't try to change it because you never will !!

Basically the bad Farang areas attract the bad Thais. Men and women

[F1fanatic]

This may have been you (and some others) experiences, and i feel bad for you, but dont assume that about everyone. If a woman has a negative experience with a man from the west, does that make all western men the same? If a woman has MANY negative experiences with men..she should probably start questioning as to why this is happening. I see the flip side of the "all western women are bad, Asian women are my dream" type thinking, where a man may get stung by a Thai girl(s) and suddenly they are disillusioned with Thai women also. Some women in the west make great partners, some dont. Same here. Same with the men. I honestly hope that the men who come here as a "retreat" in some way, learn to let go of this way of thinking.

The problem is, Eek old girl, the the western legal system enables any woman with children to behave in that way. I would like to suggest that many women in the west are pressed into the 'taking everything they can' by their solicitors and their friends, they don't need to be 'bad' by any means, they do it because they can. I don't particularly care what one woman does, but merely point out that EVERY woman can do this if she has children. Of course more and more women are taking this action when they get fed up or bored with their partners (they don't even need to be married).

Men in the western world with a partner and children under 19 essentially have no property rights of any sort, it can all be taken from them in a very short space of time.

In the UK

step 1

Woman goes to police and says man is dangerous and mentally cruel

A court order will be issued within 14 days without the man knowing, evicting him from the house. No evidence is required by the woman, her word is good enough.

step 2

Tell the court the man is likely to harm his children, this will prevent him having contact with them for the foreseeable future.

step 3

file for divorce on grounds of unreasonable behaviour. Within 6 months the house will be assigned into the womans sole possession.

During the process dial 999 every time you see the man and report him for stalking, this will ensure he has a criminal record and will be held in jail while questioned.

See how easy that is!

No evidence is required in family court in the UK.

That is absolute BS.

No evidence required !!! Evicted in 14 days !!

Not BS, same in the USA, woman goes to cops and claims mental cruelty and gets a restraining order good for 90 days. You are out of your house and on the street. No investigation, no recourse then its downhill from there.

Perhaps this says more about the type of people with whom you associated? I can honestly say that I do not know ANYONE (male or female) who went through this type of experience in the UK.

Those I knew who divorced, divided their assets 50/50 - even those with children. The house was sold and the women (who always took responsibility for the children amongst those I knew - the husbands preferred not to take on the responsibility) bought a smaller house and then CONTINUED working. Admittedly, the ex-husband in all cases except one, contributed towards the children.

Changing the subject entirely, I have no problem with Thai law not allowing foreigners to own land - why should (comparatively) wealthy foreigners be allowed to buy up the Thais' land?

Finally, those trying to say that farangs only get their own attitude reflected back at them, are way off the mark! When I first came here I believed Thais to be incredibly friendly, wonderful people (after many holidays here). It took about a year before the rose-tinted glasses wore off and I became aware of the reality.

I think SBK (?) was spot on with her 3 stages post - I'm slowly moving into stage 3. Having said that I know a few people who've been here for 15 years or so who've gone back to stage 2!

Oops, sorry - just thought of one friend who left her 14 year old child with the husband. She moved in with another man (who had v little money) and thought it far better to leave the child in the family home with the husband (who was v wealthy). She didn't ask for anything close to 50% of their assets as she would not see the family home sold as that would have been disruptive for their child, and ended up with pretty much nothing - unlike the husband - who kept virtually everything.

Edited December 14, 2009 by F1fanatic

[animatic]

Three stages to life in Thailand

1.Thailand is paradise, the people are wonderful everythign is perfect.

Disillusion sets in and then you hit stage 2. Thailand is awful, Thai people are horrible, its a hel_l on earth

and finally stage 3, which some people never reach: Thailand is just a place, like any other, with good and bad people like everywhere else.

SBK you are spot on, as usual too.

I am a bit more into stage three, but occasionally vacillate between all three.

Lately the farangs I work with have been MUCH more a problem than the Thais.

Go figure.

[SeanMoran]

I've only read the OP post, so please forgive me if I'm repeating what has been said before, but on Monday night I ended up feeling about as sorry for myself as the OP warning implied, and it was only after some long time to think yesterday and through the night and then comimg back to reality throughout today, with some guidance by a couple of more senior Thai gentlemen who were aware of my emptiness and downheartedness that I realised tonight at dinner that the major ailment that inflicted me on my 42nd birthday last Monday was that I had simply lost my sense of humour.

I have had three non-event birthdays in a row back in Australia, and made plans to party last Monday, even booking an hotel room down in the city so I wouldn't get locked up for riding my motorbike home drunk, and it was a catastrophe, so well planned out by yours truly, except that everything had changed from what it was four years ago! Ain't that peculiar?

Now I realise two things, that it was all my own fault to try to mastermind my own happiness amongst strangers, when I have good friends right here where I could have enjoyed that birthday, and the second thing is that wherever you go anywhere in the world, city slickers suck in comparison to good country people who tend to return the kindness one gives out, rather than try to capitalise on it.

[carmine]

Three stages to life in Thailand

1.Thailand is paradise, the people are wonderful everythign is perfect.

Disillusion sets in and then you hit stage 2. Thailand is awful, Thai people are horrible, its a hel_l on earth

and finally stage 3, which some people never reach: Thailand is just a place, like any other, with good and bad people like everywhere else.

SBK you are spot on, as usual too.

I am a bit more into stage three, but occasionally vacillate between all three.

Lately the farangs I work with have been MUCH more a problem than the Thais.

Go figure.

Yes SBK is correct. I would add though that an important part of getting past Stage two is to understand and acknowledge to yourself that youwill always be a 2nd class citizen here so get over it. Many foreigners here become hung up on the little reminders you get that this isn't your country. Once accepting it as a nice place to live but with certain irritations moving on to stage three not a problem

[koheesti]

I said it on another thread some time ago but it's worth repeating here: what most people are willing to say about most Thais is more reflective of those speaking than it is of the Thais.

As a corollary- there are all kinds of people out there in Thailand (there would have to be, right?). If it seems you are only meeting one kind of person, what is the common denominator, then?

Wise words indeed.

"You will find only what you bring in."

(Yoda quote)

I think it was, "Find you only what bring in you will".

After 2+ years, I haven't had any problems with Thais. I don't have any deep relationships either personal or business with them so that certainly helps.

As for the comment about going to the US if want to see racism...If you are non-white and REALLY want to experience racism then go to Russia.