N. Korea Aircraft Makes Emergency Landing At Bangkok's Don Mueang Airport

[Mosha]

Meanwhile back to the aircraft

http://yorkshire-ranter.blogspot.com/2009/...dragged-in.html

[ferd54]

And this from a website called New Ledger, which seems to answer the issue debated earlier inthis thread about whether the aircraft cross China's airspace:

From the Washington Times, we also learn that the Chinese — their promises to cooperate with international sanctions notwithstanding — allowed the aircraft to pass through their airspace:

Larry A. Niksch, a specialist in Asian affairs at the Congressional Research Service who monitors North Korea’s proliferation activities, said the Bangkok seizure raises serious questions about China’s role. “Two-thirds of the flight path of that plane was over Chinese territory,” he said. “It should have raised Chinese suspicions.”

The Obama administration brought up concerns about North Korean use of Chinese airspace for arms exports this summer – shortly after the adoption of a U.N. Security Council resolution banning such transfers – but has yet to receive a meaningful response, U.S. officials said. “North Korean proliferation by air is an important matter for us, and [Philip] Goldberg brought it up during his meetings in July,” said one official, referring to an Asia trip by the State Department envoy for the implementation of Resolution 1874. The official spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was discussing private diplomatic communications.

The resolution, which China supported, lists detailed procedures on how to deal with suspicious vessels and illegal cargo on the high seas, but it is somewhat vague when it comes to air cargo. In most cases, regardless of the destination of a flight originating in North Korea, it would have to refuel in China or at least fly over its territory, Mr. Niksch said.

China’s state-run Xinhua News Agency quoted officials in Beijing in July as saying that inspections of air cargo should be carried out only if there is specific evidence of wrongdoing. “China has been faithfully implementing relevant U.N. resolutions,” Wang Baodong, a spokesman for the Chinese Embassy in Washington, said Wednesday. “As to whether the North Korean plane violated U.N. resolutions, it’s up to the U.N. Security Council to make a judgment.” [Washington Times, Nicholas Kralev]

[Publicus]

And this from a website called New Ledger, which seems to answer the issue debated earlier inthis thread about whether the aircraft cross China's airspace:

From the Washington Times, we also learn that the Chinese — their promises to cooperate with international sanctions notwithstanding — allowed the aircraft to pass through their airspace:

Larry A. Niksch, a specialist in Asian affairs at the Congressional Research Service who monitors North Korea's proliferation activities, said the Bangkok seizure raises serious questions about China's role. "Two-thirds of the flight path of that plane was over Chinese territory," he said. "It should have raised Chinese suspicions."

The Obama administration brought up concerns about North Korean use of Chinese airspace for arms exports this summer – shortly after the adoption of a U.N. Security Council resolution banning such transfers – but has yet to receive a meaningful response, U.S. officials said. "North Korean proliferation by air is an important matter for us, and [Philip] Goldberg brought it up during his meetings in July," said one official, referring to an Asia trip by the State Department envoy for the implementation of Resolution 1874. The official spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was discussing private diplomatic communications.

The resolution, which China supported, lists detailed procedures on how to deal with suspicious vessels and illegal cargo on the high seas, but it is somewhat vague when it comes to air cargo. In most cases, regardless of the destination of a flight originating in North Korea, it would have to refuel in China or at least fly over its territory, Mr. Niksch said.

China's state-run Xinhua News Agency quoted officials in Beijing in July as saying that inspections of air cargo should be carried out only if there is specific evidence of wrongdoing. "China has been faithfully implementing relevant U.N. resolutions," Wang Baodong, a spokesman for the Chinese Embassy in Washington, said Wednesday. "As to whether the North Korean plane violated U.N. resolutions, it's up to the U.N. Security Council to make a judgment." [Washington Times, Nicholas Kralev]

Thailand has done well here. It's helped put N Korea and the PRC on the spot, not to mention the UNSC.

The Congressional Research Service, as with the Congressional Budget Office, is a neutral entity of expert professionals long established to provide the Congress with non-partisan and factual information and analysis from the best sources.

The Washington Times is a right wing newspaper established when Reagan became president and is tanking severely despite always being funded by rich right wingers.

Abhisit is a very busy fellow these days.

[LaoPo]

And this from a website called New Ledger, which seems to answer the issue debated earlier inthis thread about whether the aircraft cross China's airspace:

From the Washington Times, we also learn that the Chinese — their promises to cooperate with international sanctions notwithstanding — allowed the aircraft to pass through their airspace:

Larry A. Niksch, a specialist in Asian affairs at the Congressional Research Service who monitors North Korea’s proliferation activities, said the Bangkok seizure raises serious questions about China’s role. “Two-thirds of the flight path of that plane was over Chinese territory,” he said. “It should have raised Chinese suspicions.”

The Obama administration brought up concerns about North Korean use of Chinese airspace for arms exports this summer – shortly after the adoption of a U.N. Security Council resolution banning such transfers – but has yet to receive a meaningful response, U.S. officials said. “North Korean proliferation by air is an important matter for us, and [Philip] Goldberg brought it up during his meetings in July,” said one official, referring to an Asia trip by the State Department envoy for the implementation of Resolution 1874. The official spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was discussing private diplomatic communications.

The resolution, which China supported, lists detailed procedures on how to deal with suspicious vessels and illegal cargo on the high seas, but it is somewhat vague when it comes to air cargo. In most cases, regardless of the destination of a flight originating in North Korea, it would have to refuel in China or at least fly over its territory, Mr. Niksch said.

China’s state-run Xinhua News Agency quoted officials in Beijing in July as saying that inspections of air cargo should be carried out only if there is specific evidence of wrongdoing. “China has been faithfully implementing relevant U.N. resolutions,” Wang Baodong, a spokesman for the Chinese Embassy in Washington, said Wednesday. “As to whether the North Korean plane violated U.N. resolutions, it’s up to the U.N. Security Council to make a judgment.” [Washington Times, Nicholas Kralev]

1. Your post is an exact copy from an article by the WSJ in the BLOG The NEW LEDGER.

Maybe you can post a link next time as it now looks like you wrote the post?

Your post is from: http://newledger.com/2009/12/axis-of-evil-...inese-airspace/

2. I have problems with the claim by Mr. Niksch that the flight was for two-thirds over Chinese airspace. I wonder where he got that information and if the Chinese confirmed so accordingly ? What makes him so certain ?

3. It leaves my previous questions unanswered WHY ON EARTH this plane would land in Bangkok whilst it could have refueled (easier without questions) in another communistic state like Vietnam (the first country the plane had to cross, coming from either NK or China), Laos, Cambodia or in Burma/Myanmar.

SO: why Bangkok ? IMO quite stupid of the crew to land in BKK...other than that they were forced to land like suggested previously.

A much more logical refueling option would have been in Hanoi and off on the way via Laos and Burma to Sri Lanka - no Thai airspace in sight-

Coming from NK and yes or no flying over China it is SO unlogical to land in BKK that it's almost laughable; for those who miss the geography of Asia a bit, here the map (again):

LaoPo

[LaoPo]

Thailand does tweak NK with policies towards it such being the only country of the region that allows NK defectors a safe haven from where refugees can travel to third countries

That indeed is quite a story. They cross over into northeast China (Manchuria), travel overland the length of China, then illegally cross the borders of Laos and Thailand.

There is one "autonomous county" in Jilin province of China that as something like 85 percent Korean.

Yeh, the route for N Korean defectors to freedom and sanctuary in Thailand is long, tuff and dangerous as the PRC Public Security Bureau police are always on the lookout for defectors who, when snagged, are returned to NK for execution. Long parts of the arduous route are over hills and backwoods trails. There are NGO halfway houses in Thailand from where most defectors fly on to Seoul.

The Korean populated county of Jilin province in the PRC at the NK border provides the point of departure for NK defectors who cross the border into the county then into the province, so the many Koreans there are watched closely by the PSB police. However, the effectiveness of the PRC politics police is limited because no passport is necessary at the PRC-NK border in either direction. If you're a North Korean you just walk into the PRC at any point along the border - same if you're a citizen of the PRC, you simply enter NK. No 'papers' required or requested. Good neighbors and all that.  

That may change tho. The state media of PRC raised a big stink throughout all of PRChina for about ten days straight after the second (actual) NK nuclear test, measuring for radiation fallout daily over northeast China and several times a day in the immediate NK border areas. Radiation reports were on state media daily but after about ten days of none being detected the government had to give it up. Still, the PRC government had made their point of being intensely dissatisfied with Kim.

This arms plane seizure is also all over the news in the PRC as the leaders of the Communist Party of China continue their new and sharp criticisms of Kim Jong Il and NK in general. 

The area -Yanbian- Ferd54 is speaking about (the autonomous Korean region in Jilin province) is of the utmost importance for China since that part of the country is landlocked.

But the ethnic Koreans might be of a high percentage in Yanbian, the number is low in comparison to the ethnic Han Chinese who count for more than 90% of the Jilin population; Koreans just some 4%. The language is Mandarin.

Jilin/Yanbian became landlocked since the end of WWII when the Japanese retreated after occupying parts of Russia and China (former Manchuria)

China lost it's most precious piece of access to the Sea of Japan in that period of history.

BUT....now, the Chinese are building a port for themselves in North Korean's Rajin, just 40 miles south of Chunchun, accompanied by a Chinese-sided highway and railroad all built and constructed by the Chinese themselves.

Chunchun is becoming a hub and fast growing city for manufacturing and shipping to the Sea of Japan via that port in Rajin/North Korea.

China will do anything to keep that access to the Sea of Japan since it's their lifeline (transport wise) to the North Pacific and North Korea knows that of course. The tension between the two are fragile but the Chinese and Koreans know each other well and there's no one better than carefully sniffing on each other than those two countries.

China has a lot to lose and so does North Korea.

There's an interesting article about Hunchun and area and if interested, PM me.

LaoPo

Edited December 21, 2009 by LaoPo

[TAWP]

And this from a website called New Ledger, which seems to answer the issue debated earlier inthis thread about whether the aircraft cross China's airspace:

1. Your post is an exact copy from an article by the WSJ in the BLOG The NEW LEDGER.

Maybe you can post a link next time as it now looks like you wrote the post?

Read his first sentence in the post there that I trimmed his post down to. He didn't try to make it look like he wrote it.

(And a general FYI, new users are not allowed to post links, prohibited by the forum software.)

[LaoPo]

And this from a website called New Ledger, which seems to answer the issue debated earlier inthis thread about whether the aircraft cross China's airspace:

1. Your post is an exact copy from an article by the WSJ in the BLOG The NEW LEDGER.

Maybe you can post a link next time as it now looks like you wrote the post?

Read his first sentence in the post there that I trimmed his post down to. He didn't try to make it look like he wrote it.

(And a general FYI, new users are not allowed to post links, prohibited by the forum software.)

Sure, I believe it was not his intention; it just looked like it until I finished the post, reading, and noticed the : in the first sentence.

I didn't know or realize new posters can't post a link; never thought of it or knew, really.

Apart from that I realized just now that it isn't allowed to post links of BLOGS either ? In that case I stepped over the line myself.

Mea Culpa

LaoPo

[TAWP]

It wasn't in regards to him, but until a low number of posts are reached, no urls can be posted by the user. Was just an FYI. Anyway, carry on.

[ferd54]

The Korean populated county of Jilin province in the PRC at the NK border provides the point of departure for NK defectors who cross the border into the county then into the province....

Here a few who made it to northern Thailand:

Illegal North Korean immigrants arrested in Phayao

14 illegal immigrants from North Korea were arrested on a passenger bus leaving Chiang Rai for Bangkok December 15.

The police at Mae Tam Check Point in Phayao stopped and searched a passenger bus on the way from Chiang Rai to Bangkok, and found 14 illegal immigrants from North Korea; 5 men, 8 women and a boy. The North Koreans confessed to police that they had entered Thailand at Chiang Rai’s Mae Sai district and planned to find jobs in Bangkok. All of them were arrested and charged with illegally entering Thailand.

Police from Phayao Police Station have been intensively monitoring for both illegal immigration and drug trafficking during the period running up to and including the New Year.(PRD)

--Chiang Mai Mail

[Publicus]

The Korean populated county of Jilin province in the PRC at the NK border provides the point of departure for NK defectors who cross the border into the county then into the province....

Here a few who made it to northern Thailand:

Illegal North Korean immigrants arrested in Phayao

14 illegal immigrants from North Korea were arrested on a passenger bus leaving Chiang Rai for Bangkok December 15.

The police at Mae Tam Check Point in Phayao stopped and searched a passenger bus on the way from Chiang Rai to Bangkok, and found 14 illegal immigrants from North Korea; 5 men, 8 women and a boy. The North Koreans confessed to police that they had entered Thailand at Chiang Rai's Mae Sai district and planned to find jobs in Bangkok. All of them were arrested and charged with illegally entering Thailand.

Police from Phayao Police Station have been intensively monitoring for both illegal immigration and drug trafficking during the period running up to and including the New Year.(PRD)

--Chiang Mai Mail

Yeh, as I'd stated in an early post on this topic, conditions for N Korean refugees in Thailand sometimes are less than perfect. The N Koreans nabbed by police in this instance clearly stated their intention to find jobs in Thailand, Bangkok specifically. The Phayao checkpoint 14 obviously weren't a part of the political escape network which provides guides/escorts throughout to include in Thailand. Economic immigrants from NK have been and continue to be treated as illegal immigrants rather than as NGO sponsored protected and sheltered political ones.  

Since the 2006 coup even political refugees from NK sometimes have been treated roughly by Thai authorities. The NGOs who assist political migrants to and in Thailand have objected about this to the government with spotty results.The 2007 Bangkok Conference on North Korean Refugees in Thailand and the Life Fund for North Korean Refugees NGO called the deteriorating situation to the attention of the governments of the moment and since which however were otherwise occupied. 

The Thaksin TRT government was more accepting of NK political refugees than was the coup government or since. Abhisit and 'his' government need to find time to improve the situation but it too has been otherwise occupied. None the less, the government consistently has been unsympathetic towards unsponsored or other certain categories of unwelcome economic migrants regardless of their country of origin.  

Edited December 23, 2009 by Publicus

[Publicus]

I'm presently watching a History Channel one hour documentary on tv about N Koreans who defect. The documentary traces the entire experience, from escaping the clutches of Kim Jong Il to their safe arrival in LOS, from where they travel on to S Korea or the US. NK defectors captured by PRC authorities during the long arduous journey through the back roads and hills of the PRC are returned to Kim's clutches to be executed.

Thailand is the only country of the region to accept NK defectors to allow them to travel to a third country. Burma accepts them but only to remain in Burma, which raises the question of who the <deleted> wants to remain in Burma. That's but a measure of how awful life is in NK, the Democratic People's Repubic of Korea!

[brahmburgers]

'News of The Weird' is a syndicated column which I subscribe to. It's compiled by Chuck Shepherd. Below, in orange, is an item lifted from his recent column:

* In Somalia, which is without a central government to speak of

and where very little functions beyond an Islamic resistance and

individual warlords' fiefdoms, a robust "stock market" has emerged

in the city of Haradheere for "investors" in the seagoing pirate

"industry," to raise money and supplies for kidnapers in exchange

for a share of the bounty once a ransom is paid. According to a

December Reuters dispatch, 72 "companies" are listed on the

exchange, enabling "venture capital" to fund greater piracy traffic

and more sophisticated looting. There even seems to be a financial

"bubble" at work, in that since the "exchange" opened, pirates'

ransoms have doubled, to about $4 million per ship. [Reuters, 12-

1-09]

The gist of it backs up my theory that the mysterious arms shipment was headed for Somalia, and here's why: Somali piracy is one of the few growth industries in this recession wracked world economy. And, from the article quoted, Somali businesspeople think it's cool. If Somalia had a government, it might be opposed to piracy, but that's wishful thinking. Anyhow, back to the OP: if the plane was coming out of N.Korea with weapons, and had refueling stops in Bkk and Sri Lanka, then if you connect the dots, it brings the flight right on down to Somalia.

Edited January 18, 2010 by brahmburgers

[LaoPo]

'News of The Weird' is a syndicated column which I subscribe to. It's compiled by Chuck Shepherd. Below, in orange, is an item lifted from his recent column:

* In Somalia, which is without a central government to speak of

and where very little functions beyond an Islamic resistance and

individual warlords' fiefdoms, a robust "stock market" has emerged

in the city of Haradheere for "investors" in the seagoing pirate

"industry," to raise money and supplies for kidnapers in exchange

for a share of the bounty once a ransom is paid. According to a

December Reuters dispatch, 72 "companies" are listed on the

exchange, enabling "venture capital" to fund greater piracy traffic

and more sophisticated looting. There even seems to be a financial

"bubble" at work, in that since the "exchange" opened, pirates'

ransoms have doubled, to about $4 million per ship. [Reuters, 12-

1-09]

The gist of it backs up my theory that the mysterious arms shipment was headed for Somalia, and here's why: Somali piracy is one of the few growth industries in this recession wracked world economy. And, from the article quoted, Somali businesspeople think it's cool. If Somalia had a government, it might be opposed to piracy, but that's wishful thinking. Anyhow, back to the OP: if the plane was coming out of N.Korea with weapons, and had refueling stops in Bkk and Sri Lanka, then if you connect the dots, it brings the flight right on down to Somalia.

1.Please forgive me, leaving the orange colour out since it really hurts my eyes because I'm suffering of colour blindness (true!) That's why Blue is better for me when I use a colour. After a few minutes my eyes still blink

But, that aside:

2. Good points and thinking BB and could very well have been the destination.

3. I am still confused WHY that plane didn't land in a more "easy" -communistic- country, which was also a lot more logical in the flying route from N Korea, like Laos or Vietnam?

Why pick Thailand, knowing to have very close relations with the US?

Oh, well, I better go to Bangkok Hilton and ask them myself

LaoPo

[moetownblues]

.....the matter was now under the supervision of the Thai police.....

That's the weapons sold off then!!!

What weapons?

[RickBradford]

I am still confused WHY that plane didn't land in a more "easy" -communistic- country, which was also a lot more logical in the flying route from N Korea, like Laos or Vietnam?

I don't think Vietnam would have been any easier -- they keep a very close eye on who overflies their territory. Nor is the story principally about communist solidarity, more about making hard currency. Vietnam wouldn't risk its hard-won reputation as a friend of the West on a hare-brained scheme like this.

I'd argue that Cambodia might have been a better option.

[SpoliaOpima]

Cambodia would have been perfect.

[brahmburgers]

Cambodia was possibly one of their fuel stops. However, remember that it's been postulated (and believably so) that the Thai air force was alerted by Uncle Sam - about the mystery plane, and therefore the fighter pilots were instructed (by Thai and/or US authorities?) to force the plane down to Don Muang.

All in all, the N.Korean bosses must be getting mighty frustrated, when each plane and each ship that leaves that country is monitored by American satellites or radar planes. It's like a delinquent punk living in a neighborhood, who knows that every time he leaves his house to go out and cause mischief, the authorities are tracing his every move.

[Dustybin]

Most likely the pilot saw all the junta's guns in bangkok and mistook it for N/Korea.

He thought he was back home.

But more like he was merely bringing in 76million baht more guns for the juntas democracy move.

[moetownblues]

Cambodia was possibly one of their fuel stops. However, remember that it's been postulated (and believably so) that the Thai air force was alerted by Uncle Sam - about the mystery plane, and therefore the fighter pilots were instructed (by Thai and/or US authorities?) to force the plane down to Don Muang.

All in all, the N.Korean bosses must be getting mighty frustrated, when each plane and each ship that leaves that country is monitored by American satellites or radar planes. It's like a delinquent punk living in a neighborhood, who knows that every time he leaves his house to go out and cause mischief, the authorities are tracing his every move.

Really bloody Americans. This is why there is so much hatred for Americans. Americans are always interering in other countries when thier own toilet is flooding. Americans are definately the most hated people on the globe and they bring it on themselves.

[animatic]

Right stopping international arms trafficking is a bad thing... OK Moe.

Plenty of reasons to hate the USA government, but this ain't one of them.

[Dustybin]

Right stopping international arms trafficking is a bad thing... OK Moe.

Plenty of reasons to hate the USA government, but this ain't one of them.

And who was it armed sadam hussein and the ayatollahs

Thats right the biggest international arms trafficker of em all.

[LaoPo]

Right stopping international arms trafficking is a bad thing... OK Moe.

Plenty of reasons to hate the USA government, but this ain't one of them.

And who was it armed sadam hussein and the ayatollahs

Thats right the biggest international arms trafficker of em all.

You have a -sensitive- point.

LaoPo

[brahmburgers]

Cambodia was possibly one of their fuel stops. However, remember that it's been postulated (and believably so) that the Thai air force was alerted by Uncle Sam - about the mystery plane, and therefore the fighter pilots were instructed (by Thai and/or US authorities?) to force the plane down to Don Muang.

All in all, the N.Korean bosses must be getting mighty frustrated, when each plane and each ship that leaves that country is monitored by American satellites or radar planes. It's like a delinquent punk living in a neighborhood, who knows that every time he leaves his house to go out and cause mischief, the authorities are tracing his every move.

Really bloody Americans. This is why there is so much hatred for Americans. Americans are always interering in other countries when thier own toilet is flooding. Americans are definately the most hated people on the globe and they bring it on themselves.

Hate and love are not far apart - look at the average marriage or parent/sibling relationship. Interesting that nearly all those who decide to get with the 'hate America' trend - are the same folks who would do anything to get a chance to emigrate there.

[animatic]

Right stopping international arms trafficking is a bad thing... OK Moe.

Plenty of reasons to hate the USA government, but this ain't one of them.

And who was it armed sadam hussein and the ayatollahs

Thats right the biggest international arms trafficker of em all.

You have a -sensitive- point.

LaoPo

Right my popint exactly.

We should support the USA when it does the right thing,

not scream hypocrisies for DIFFERENT administrations stupidities.

Charlie Wilson may have been right, but they only let him do HALF the job.

and not the MOST important part of it.

[Publicus]

Cambodia was possibly one of their fuel stops. However, remember that it's been postulated (and believably so) that the Thai air force was alerted by Uncle Sam - about the mystery plane, and therefore the fighter pilots were instructed (by Thai and/or US authorities?) to force the plane down to Don Muang.

All in all, the N.Korean bosses must be getting mighty frustrated, when each plane and each ship that leaves that country is monitored by American satellites or radar planes. It's like a delinquent punk living in a neighborhood, who knows that every time he leaves his house to go out and cause mischief, the authorities are tracing his every move.

Really bloody Americans. This is why there is so much hatred for Americans. Americans are always interering in other countries when thier own toilet is flooding. Americans are definately the most hated people on the globe and they bring it on themselves.

The Thai government in 1862 sent two elephants by ship to Pres Lincoln to help him win the US civil war.   

In 2009 The Thai government is purported to have acted in cooperation with the US government in corraling this N Korea arms cargo flight which if true wouldn't be unusual given the relationships between the two governments since 1833.  

[moetownblues]

Cambodia was possibly one of their fuel stops. However, remember that it's been postulated (and believably so) that the Thai air force was alerted by Uncle Sam - about the mystery plane, and therefore the fighter pilots were instructed (by Thai and/or US authorities?) to force the plane down to Don Muang.

All in all, the N.Korean bosses must be getting mighty frustrated, when each plane and each ship that leaves that country is monitored by American satellites or radar planes. It's like a delinquent punk living in a neighborhood, who knows that every time he leaves his house to go out and cause mischief, the authorities are tracing his every move.

Really bloody Americans. This is why there is so much hatred for Americans. Americans are always interering in other countries when thier own toilet is flooding. Americans are definately the most hated people on the globe and they bring it on themselves.

Hate and love are not far apart - look at the average marriage or parent/sibling relationship. Interesting that nearly all those who decide to get with the 'hate America' trend - are the same folks who would do anything to get a chance to emigrate there.

I like most Australians do not like Americans. Have never been to the US and have absolutly no urge to go. Because I dislike yanks that does not mean I want to emigrate there I chose Thailand ahead of America. The yanks need to take a leaf or 2 out of thai politics and stop medling in everyone elses affairs then they might make a friend or two.

[Publicus]

Cambodia was possibly one of their fuel stops. However, remember that it's been postulated (and believably so) that the Thai air force was alerted by Uncle Sam - about the mystery plane, and therefore the fighter pilots were instructed (by Thai and/or US authorities?) to force the plane down to Don Muang.

All in all, the N.Korean bosses must be getting mighty frustrated, when each plane and each ship that leaves that country is monitored by American satellites or radar planes. It's like a delinquent punk living in a neighborhood, who knows that every time he leaves his house to go out and cause mischief, the authorities are tracing his every move.

Really bloody Americans. This is why there is so much hatred for Americans. Americans are always interering in other countries when thier own toilet is flooding. Americans are definately the most hated people on the globe and they bring it on themselves.

Hate and love are not far apart - look at the average marriage or parent/sibling relationship. Interesting that nearly all those who decide to get with the 'hate America' trend - are the same folks who would do anything to get a chance to emigrate there.

I like most Australians do not like Americans. Have never been to the US and have absolutly no urge to go. Because I dislike yanks that does not mean I want to emigrate there I chose Thailand ahead of America. The yanks need to take a leaf or 2 out of thai politics and stop medling in everyone elses affairs then they might make a friend or two.

Bangkok and Washington DC were founded contemporaneously in history but did not develop along parallel lines in any respect. Thai politics are not the model for the USA, thank you. For one thing, we ditched the British crown and did it rather unceremoneously. Suffice to say Thailand and the US have a history of excellent relations. 

During ten consecutive years in Thailand I've definitely noticed as true your opening sentence above - which I'd say is an understatement. But then we'd be getting a bit of topic with any USA-Down Under chatter.

Edited January 20, 2010 by Publicus

[geriatrickid]

People really should take their aluminium pie hat protectors off and put on their Thai thinking caps.

Really bloody Americans. This is why there is so much hatred for Americans. Americans are always interering in other countries when thier own toilet is flooding. Americans are definately the most hated people on the globe and they bring it on themselves.

So you believe the Americans were wrong for enforcing the UN arms sanctions? Why are you only condemning the Americans here? Shouldn't you also be condemning the UN Security Council that passed the sanctions? And while you are at it, share some of the blame for Australia since it is responsible for most of the communication intercepts and deciphering in Asia Pacific. . You might also want to piss in the directions of the Chinese since they may have confirmed the air shipment. International politics make for strange bedfellows.

And who was it armed sadam hussein and the ayatollahs

Thats right the biggest international arms trafficker of em all.

You mean the Russians or the Chinese or the Europeans that were buying Iraqi oil? The USA was not the supplier the idiot brigade would have everyone believe. I suggest people look at the alliances that were in place. Remember the cold war? Russia had allied itself with the arab world. The French had always sold arms to Iraq. Where do you think the Mirage fighters and Super Etenard interceptors came from? They didn't come from Chile. Where do you think Russian Mig fighters came from? No they didn't come from Texas. The Iraqi Navy came courtesy of Russia and Italy. Look at the Iraqi army armamements. I don't think they manufactured the T-72 tanks in the USA. Know why? Because they were built in Russia. So how about you retracting the statement and and promise to check your facts first.

The munitions suppliers to Iraq for the period of 1973-2002 according to calculations released by the Stockholm International Peace Institute were as follows (as a percentage of total arms imports);

USSR 57.26

France 12.74

China 11.82

Czechoslovakia 6.56

Poland 3.83

Brazil 1.65

Egypt 1.29

Romania 1.19

At at all less than .5% each (with the US value shown)

Denmark, Libya USA 0.46 South Africa Austria Switzerland Yugoslavia Germany (FRG) Italy UK HungarySpainEast Germany(GDR) Canada Jordan

Amazing how the forums are filled with comments that the Thais have low IQs and are inherently stupid, yet, I have never heard a Thai come up with some of the crazy conspiracy theories that foreigners post in TV.

Edited January 20, 2010 by geriatrickid

[moetownblues]

Cambodia was possibly one of their fuel stops. However, remember that it's been postulated (and believably so) that the Thai air force was alerted by Uncle Sam - about the mystery plane, and therefore the fighter pilots were instructed (by Thai and/or US authorities?) to force the plane down to Don Muang.

All in all, the N.Korean bosses must be getting mighty frustrated, when each plane and each ship that leaves that country is monitored by American satellites or radar planes. It's like a delinquent punk living in a neighborhood, who knows that every time he leaves his house to go out and cause mischief, the authorities are tracing his every move.

Really bloody Americans. This is why there is so much hatred for Americans. Americans are always interering in other countries when thier own toilet is flooding. Americans are definately the most hated people on the globe and they bring it on themselves.

The Thai government in 1862 sent two elephants by ship to Pres Lincoln to help him win the US civil war.

In 2009 The Thai government is purported to have acted in cooperation with the US government in corraling this N Korea arms cargo flight which if true wouldn't be unusual given the relationships between the two governments since 1833.

Um and in December 1941 Thailand declared war against The US and aligned with Japan. Good long running relationship

[Publicus]

Cambodia was possibly one of their fuel stops. However, remember that it's been postulated (and believably so) that the Thai air force was alerted by Uncle Sam - about the mystery plane, and therefore the fighter pilots were instructed (by Thai and/or US authorities?) to force the plane down to Don Muang.

All in all, the N.Korean bosses must be getting mighty frustrated, when each plane and each ship that leaves that country is monitored by American satellites or radar planes. It's like a delinquent punk living in a neighborhood, who knows that every time he leaves his house to go out and cause mischief, the authorities are tracing his every move.

Really bloody Americans. This is why there is so much hatred for Americans. Americans are always interering in other countries when thier own toilet is flooding. Americans are definately the most hated people on the globe and they bring it on themselves.

The Thai government in 1862 sent two elephants by ship to Pres Lincoln to help him win the US civil war.

In 2009 The Thai government is purported to have acted in cooperation with the US government in corraling this N Korea arms cargo flight which if true wouldn't be unusual given the relationships between the two governments since 1833.

Um and in December 1941 Thailand declared war against The US and aligned with Japan. Good long running relationship

And because of the people and work of the Siri Thai Resistance Movement during WW2, and the millions of Thai supporters and sympathizers, the US government in 1945 declared Thailand to have been an ally of the United States during the war. The Siri Thai Resistance Movement was based in Washington (and London, which never really accepted it). We're well aware the Thai Ambassador refused to deliver the Japanese forced declaration of war by Thailand against the United States to the US Government, thus preventing a consummating of the Act but, alas, I see we begin to stray off topic.