New requirements for long term stay

[monitorlizard]

I know some of you will snap my head off for saying this but are the new requirements really that bad?

The proposed new laws state that a foreigner will need to have 400,000 baht or 40,000 baht per month to get a 1 year visa. They have noted that there will be exceptions to hardship cases on an idividual basis.

I have noticed that some people who are complaining are spending in excess of 400,000 baht per year. I just don't get it.You have nothing to worry about.

I suspect the people who will be screaming the loudest are the ones who are working illegally as teachers or in dodgey businesses and doing the monthly border runs. Also, there are some I believe that are causing great harm to the welfare of their families by living a month to month existence here. What about their kids future? I would think it would be better to return to the West and make real money! The kids would get a good education. You could always come to LOS during the summer holidays.

For those who are living on less than 400,000 baht a year in LOS and have a wife and child, I honestly don't know how you are managing! The baht is appreciating. So far, the US dollar has lost about 12% of its value. I expect it to lose another 5-10% on pressure from the US and EU. We could see the baht 35-36 to the USD!

Regarding the "anti-farang" issue by the government and media. The reality is that the government is cleaning up the loopholes and abuse of the visas. The issue is not to break up families but to provide security. Just today I read they caught an Iranian national without an entry stamp!

There was an excellant article in the Bangkok Post about ideas for the foreigner who cannot meet the new regulations. Some of them included moving to another country where you can get more value for your money. Although I would disagree about moving to Laos or Cambodia, I would give China a try. I visited Yunnan a couple of years back and I loved it.

Personally, if I had to live on a retirement salary or social security and I saw the value of my money decreasing 15% and the cost of living increasing, I would seriously think of moving somewhere else.

I might even consider the former Eastern European block. The northern part of former Yugoslavia is peaceful now and the islands there are stunning! Poland is nice. I even liked the beaches of Turkey, a place where you get real value for your money. Lots of great places in Latin America as well.

Anyway, I think we need to keep things in perspective. To retire in the US, one needs 1 million USD. Canada is $500,000 USD. I don't know what it is Europe but I suspect it is quite high as well.

I know change is difficult and can be frightening to some. However, it is important to realize that we cannot control events in life. The world is too big and beautiful to get angry.

The figure of 400,000 baht a year (+/- $11,000 USD) is a real bargain if you compare the requirements to other places.

[tomy]

The proposed new laws state that a foreigner will need to have 400,000 baht or 40,000 baht per month to get a 1 year visa. They have noted that there will be exceptions to hardship cases on an idividual basis.

I like to know more about this law, yes i have 400,000 baht or 40,000 baht per month, no i don't work, and i don't like to work. i have a Thai girlfriend, my highschool sweet-heart, been with her since, we both went to school and college in the state, went back to thailand for a reason, ( parent physical thingy) how am i go about getting this yearly stay.

[lopburi3]

1.  Requirements will be for one year in country extensions of a visa.  Not a visa.  Visa has no requirement.  Net result is those with the least money have to spend the most (for visa runs).

2.  People spending more than 400k will now have to 'park' the money that they used to spend.  They may well have a problem doing so; although I suspect those in the system will be provided for.

3.  Some people believe life is more important than money; even if they must live in what you seem to believe is nowhere land.  And not all have a full set of choices.  Try not to judge.

4.  The baht went from 25 to the present 39 in the last decade (with very little inflation).  Net increase in buying power for those with outside income.  Very little change for those without.

5.  People usually live here because of one reason.  Their spouse is Thai and the spouse wants to live here (and often can not live elsewhere).  Moving to other countries to save a baht is out of the question.

6.  The US income requirement, I believe, is at or close to the poviety level.  Believe 400k is far and away above what would be that level here.

[lopburi3]

i have a Thai girlfriend,

Marry her.  Then apply for non immigrant visa class O on the basis of that marriage.  Then, within the last 30 days of the 90 day entry visit immigration and apply for a one year extension on the basis of support.

[opalhort]

2.  People spending more than 400k will now have to 'park' the money that they used to spend.  They may well have a problem doing so; although I suspect those in the system will be provided for.

.

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5.  People usually live here because of one reason.  Their spouse is Thai and the spouse wants to live here (and often can not live elsewhere).  Moving to other countries to save a baht is out of the question.

Hi,

with 'park' do you mean the money will be locked in the account?

previously you only needed a confirmation from the bank that on a particular day you had the required amount in the bank but after that you could us the money as needed. Of course you would have to replenish the amount in time for the next year's renewal

as for your item 5.:

very correct! I'm married for 10 years, have 9 year old son and would NEVER dare to uproot them (wife and son) out of their native country away from family and friends.

remember: "home is where the heart is"

opalhort

About us

[lopburi3]

with 'park' do you mean the money will be locked in the account?

I hope not.  But even if able to use it you will now have to arrange to have more, at least once a year, in your account than before.  And that may be hard from some in a bad year of medical/school bills.  But always advise people to work with immigration folks as believe they will try to help those that they can.

In fairness to "monitorlizard"; do not disagree with everything he says.  But that name is even worse than mine!!

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I certainly won't bite your head off Lizard. I thought your argument valid, cogent, and well thought out. You are, of course, only talking about those in a marriage situation from mid 2004. The " real bargain "  is still only 200,000 baht in a bank, and it is rumored that a ' grandfather ' rule will apply. Hardly enough to survive any major health or other adversity. I totally agree that the smug non-compliers are the root cause and have made it tougher for the good people. Years and years as a ' tourist '  I N C R E D I B LE  

[Rolling Stone]

dr_Pat_Pong I hope I am not what you consider one of the smug non-compliers.  If I am, there's nothing I can do about that, your free to have your opinion.  I have done it in all the countries I have lived in.  To be totally honest I never thought about anywhere else. I have only started thinking about it here because everywhere you look, and everything you here nowadays is about this subject.  

I honestly have never heard the subject brought up in any of the other countries I lived in.  I have been an expat from the US for 19 years (since 18 years of age) through 6 different countries.  The only thing anyone ever cared about was that I was not working, buying for export was fine.  I admit,  Thailand is the first developing country I have lived in.  

With the 200K baht rule does it have to be a Thai bank?

Keep it real!

[opalhort]

In fairness to "monitorlizard"; do not disagree with everything he says.

in fact I agree very much with most of what 'monitorlizard' wrote.

I only pointed out that not every foreigner is able or willing to move his/her family to another country just because the regulations are getting more tough for us foreigners.

one other point I like to mention is that 'monitorlizard' and many others on this board make comparison between here and the West when it comes to money. WHY?

an income of 20-30K a month here in Thailand is considered as being quite reasonable whereas in the West this would probably be below the 'poverty line'. It all depends on the costs of living, so why compare?

opalhort

[tomy]

we are still young, age around 25 and 28, we are not planning to get marry anytime soon, as for money wise we are doing good, if they want to lock up my 400k its all fine with me, its only 10k in US anyway, so is it possible for a year stay (one year in country extensions of a visa) with out marry.

[lopburi3]

so is it possible for a year stay (one year in country extensions of a visa) with out marry.

Yes.  But you don't like to work so that rules one method out.  If you have 'large' investments to make perhaps that would help.  Or maybe you could go to school?  Having a girlfriend does not qualify you.

[monitorlizard]

Tommy,

Sorry about the confusion but I was talking about the requirements for foreigners married to Thais. The 400,000 baht doesn't apply in your case.

I don't know how much money you will need and what to do in your case. I am sure there are other threads where you can get this information.

[tomy]

well i guest i have no choice, doing the visa run is the only option i got, drive down to the border walk in walk out. i never thought i would do any of these lowest thing, in my life.

personaly i would like to go back to the stated, there is nothing much here in thailand in my view. but i have a soft heart i can't just leave my girlfriend here, she mississ her parent she the only child, what can i say. Man! these visa thing is really suck-ass

[lopburi3]

i never thought i would do any of these lowest thing, in my life.

Welcome to the real world.  Not all visa runners are that low.  

[Axel]

I fear many will be mixed up now in this threat.

We are talking about visa for married people and monetary requirement for extension of the visa. Perhaps retirement-visa and money in the account. People not married but want to stay here. People staying here but leaving the country 2-3 times a month.

My suggestion, lean back and think what is your own situation. Click at http://www.thaivisa.com/

most points are there and for most there is a chance to get some kind of visa making it possible to stay longer than 30 days stretching the stay and extending.

Whenever money in the account is required, it's for visa extension either if you are married to a Thai or want to stay as retiree. Yes it must be a Thai bank.

If you come and go every few weeks, you do not need a visa but you should be prepared to explain why you come so often. (Very rarely you will be asked this questions when entering at the airports. Anyway the best answer I know is "I

work in ....... but whenever I have a chance I come here to relax."

[Kathe2]

well i guest i have no choice, doing the visa run is the only option i got, drive down to the border walk in walk out. i never thought i would do any of these lowest thing, in my life.

personaly i would like to go back to the stated, there is nothing much here in thailand in my view. but i have a soft heart i can't just leave my girlfriend here, she mississ her parent she the only child, what can i say. Man! these visa thing is really suck-ass

Am I a dull one ? I have been living in Europe for nearly half of my life just because I love my husband. He didnt want to stay in Thailand ( or he wants but living in TH cost lots of money too), so we still living here and has our peaceful life with little money too. If we dont have money, we just can go for a walk in the forest next door of our noses. With apple in the pocket and one sandwich, we save lots of good lunch like in BKK. My hubby knows well, if he is coming to stay in BKK, we need much more money for a standard status. Of course , we like to live comfortable like European Standard too, but a standard status in Bkk means lots more to pay for. Anyway, there are always good and bad sides. Just think positive ways , it would heal the winter depression too. hehehe

I am the youngest daughter of my parents too who live so far away, but the technology and communications nowadays are comfortable to contact. Imagine man...since i wrote my hubby as i was a student and waited for a long week till I got one mail....man....that was really hard time for me..not like email nowadays..

Have a nice day !

Kathe

Have a nice day !

[KevinN]

As taken from the article,

income as follows: not less than 65,000b per month, at least 800,000b in the bank or income and savings together of that amount. Evidence from a Thai bank and Embassy or Consulate as above, the need to stay permanently as above, also a doctor’s certificate to say that the foreigner

I do not really understand that, 65.000 per month would be 780k baht per year,does that mean that you would only need 20k in the bank to make the 800k.?

I was told that I needed 200k in a bank acct. plus 65.000 a month at CM immigration.for a retired visa.

At Nong Khai I was told that I needed 400k plus 65.000.

and when I went to BKK immigration I was told to put 65.000 in a bank and come back and get my non-O retired.

so with all the info that I have got while here I do not understand what is going on, also a friend in CM said that he contacted the head of immigration and asked why the different rules at different offices and was told that each office has autonomy to their rules,so I just am at a loss to understand what to believe.

I do know that the written laws from the webpage of thai immigration said "800.000 in a Thai bank OR65,000 per month but did not say both.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

TOMY   You are too young to retire, and you are not married ( Thai law does not recognize common law relationships ) there no long stay visa available to you. Marriage is your only qualifying option.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

KEV are you married to a Thai ?

[monitorlizard]

Regarding money in a Thai bank. I think it should read a bank in Thailand. I bank with Citibank and I never had a problem with immigration. However, there are strict requirements for a foreigner to open an account with a foreign bank in Thailand. It usually centers around a min. deposit which can be quite high. These rules are imposed by government of Thailand. Also, I believe that foreign banks are only allowed to have 1 branch here.

Kevin, if you are married to a Thai then those higher requirements do not apply to you. It is a very straight

forward process to obtain 1 year visa. I have heard that immigration offices upcountry sometimes do not follow the rules or perhaps are confused by them. Some of my friends tell me that the big problem is over  the "and.....or". I would suggest that you get the regulation and show it to them. If it doesn't work go to Bangkok. In all cases, do not get upset as this will cause the immigration officer to clam up and dig in his /her heels.

If my memory serves me corect there was no need for a medical check.

I had to fill out an application and possess a non-immigrant visa.

About 30 days before the visa ran out, I applied and was given an extension while they processed my file.

If you do not have kids the file is sent to immigration police and they sometimes will go to your home for an inspection. Didn't happen to me. However you will need to bring your wife with you. Documents such as photos, copies of passport, TM card, house registration, statement of funds from bank, marriage certificate (if married outside Thailand then it must be certified as a true copy from your embassy).

I found the whole process pretty straightforward and without any problems. I did forget a paper but I was very polite and the officer kept the file and didn't require my wife to come again.

At the time I needed 200,000 baht in the bank no monthly income statement. However, it is important to get a exit visa if you travel outside of Thailand. If you don't then you have to start the whole process over again.

I had a friend who is American and he got a green card/residence permit for his Thai wife. He spent thousands of dollars for the US fees and he was delayed and delayed. He finally had to contact his congressman before he got action. I hear the lines at immigration in the US are days long. You have to wait one day to get a ticket for an appointment time. Later, when you return, you get a time to see an official. Also, the process time for green cards are about 2 years.

Good luck.

[Arnold]

Also, there are some I believe that are causing great harm to the welfare of their families by living a month to month existence here. What about their kids future? I would think it would be better to return to the West and make real money!

This is how Thai people live. Get with it!  

[KevinN]

Dr. PAT; Yes I am married to a Thai school teacher and have been married for 2 years, I now hold a retired "O" and it is good til next aug. But if I am going to have to go I would like to get my ducks in a row as I do not like to just up and do things anymore as it will take time to decide where to go and get the visas.

I have built a house here and was in a very expensive divorce in the states 5 years ago and she cleaned out my savings for high priced lawyers.so do not have a great nestegg anymore.I do recieve union pensions and social security,which figure to 64000 a month.

[tomy]

may i ask, what are the ages of most of the people in this forum

[lopburi3]

I am married to a Thai school teacher and have been married for 2 years, I now hold a retired "O" and it is good til next aug. But if I am going to have to go I would like to get my ducks in a row

Is the visa an extension or multi entry?  If not an extension you should apply for an extension before the next exit date with the only requirement being 200k in a bank account here if you can.  That will serve you until next year and then you will probably only have to meet that same 200k requirement.  At the worst it may be 400k (but with the income option available under the new regulations you should not have any problem meeting requirements even if you can't get it all in the bank).

Remember there are two very different visa extensions being talked about:

1.  Marriage (support) that requires 200-250k now and going to 400k or income next year.

2.  Retirement (long stay) that requires 800k or income and may stay the same next year.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Kevin...Lopburi's advice is sound. To better advise you he needs to know whether you are on a 12 month extended visa or a multiple entry O visa.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Tomy ....sorry ....we really don't have an accurate guide as to age. I suspect most are 40 to 60. Only suspect mind you.

[samsara]

tomy, i think most people on this board are advanced in years. not everyone, but most of the major contributors to the threads are very close to or are already retirement age. Hence the bitter responses you sometimes get when you make any reference to being young.

I just turned 23, and have been abroad for awhile now. Been all through Europe, with a concentration on the former Eastern Bloc, i.e. Hungary, Slovakia, Romania, Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia, Mont.,etc. Think Thailand is great. Came here for the weather primarily, and because of a deep interest in Buddhism. Considering staying for sometime, but the legal issues involved are a pain in the ass. Especially in your case since you dont work.

id recommend the following. Either get an easy, non-time consuming job or start somekind of company through your girlfriend. If you dont go the work route, and you find the visa runs unpalatable, then marriage is your last resort; and to be frank, i wouldnt exactly recommend that.

[DaveYo]

Gang did you read the latest on the news coming from the Labor of Ministry?

Here is the two quotes:   Thai Reason from the ministry of labor "to make it more difficult for foreigners to enter into the country"  and the second one being from WIRADA YUVAVES "to make it more difficult for foreigners to work in Thailand"

Was reading the posts here

If one is married to a Thai  40K or 400K

If one is single 65K or 800K

If one is retired it goes up from 800K to 1.5K

Also the education section of thailand is going to suffer a lot since the teachers there cannot accept any jobs less than 65K a month.  Also these schools will not pay that amount so therefore there is going to be a major shortage of teachers within the next year.

So regardless of your sources coming in from the outside the vast majority of foreigners are not going to meet these new requirements in short order.  Like I said a while back there is going to be an exodus of foreigners leaving thailand within the next two years.

If you do stay the odds are your outside sources will not suffice and one has to find a way to supplement that income by working and in doing so such work is severely limited in giving only a few options.

Here is the real scoop!    Bottom line is Thailand no longer wants foreigners to stay for long term.  Thailand is moving to the protectionism phase thus locking out foreigners  eventually.  When this happens then the country will plunge to bankruptcy again, as they did before.

The only question is when and how fast this will occur?  The answer lies on the foreigners themselves and how fast the long stay foreigners leave their digs to go elsewhere.  Many of the long termers do have businesses and once that starts to dry up, due to the exodus,  presto, many will be unemployed.  Then the hollering will begin reaching to the King.  By then it will be too late, the cash coffers will be drying up quickly.

:blues:

[DaveYo]

Oh and I forgot one thing.

They quoted latest immigration numbers of those staying

400,000 foreigners.  So within the next two years, I would  expect to see these numbers end up like around 100,000 give or take.  You can bet on that, once the new stuffy rules officially kicks in.  Many will go for various reasons, but mostly for two reasons.  They cannot meet the income via Thai labor, and the other is from the outside sources income not being enough.

:blues:

[tomy]

the economies won't collapse the second time, only the reason why thailand collapse was they try to save the baht by pouring in more baht, using up all the reserve, thailand was fighting for week and week, but the US was to strong, every other country around thailand collapse with-in a couple day. so don't bet on it that thailand will go down the second time.

with or with-out english teacher