What To Grow

[chownah]

RandomChances, you forgot to tell Chownah that they are not male cows but male calves Still trying to figure out a way to get a calf from you. Just gotta find a place to put it.

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Yeah, thanks for the info!!! When I was typing my post I even stopped and thought to myself the there must be a better way to express 'very young male cow' but I was momentarily brain dead and couldn't come up with it....at least I hope it was momentary....do you remember what we were talking about?

[Kringle]

Chownah, it's ok, happens to a lot of people. I just thought it funny. Reminded me of an old joke but for the life of me, I can't remeber the whole thing right now, something about a voting test.

[nightcruiser]

did you hear that mariuana (kancha) export from Holland passed flowerexport from that country...well to grow it in a cold country like Holland you need a lot of heatingequipment and a good guy from the electricity company for the fixed bill...

15 ray ... Thailand ... electric bill ... your turn !!! 

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But if your a pussy cat maybe your WIFE wont let you PK

[bina]

random, your avatar must be the 'evil' cow.... i liked your other 'friendly' cow better... this one looks really scary, for a cow

i have to check with the dairy people but at the goat convention (all 50 old geezers and me) we were told that its pasteurization at 55 centigrade for a longerr period of time, so the bad little germs are knocked out but the good flora and fauna for the rumen stick around.... i could find out if u need....

ah! the 4-7 day old milk must be what we call the 'first milk'.... nasty tasting too!!!

the spray might not affect the cows but might leave residues in the milk?? like ivomac etc...

i think a milk fed male calf is ^^ veal!!!........yum yum

[udon]

Rubber growers gain as oil prices climb

But higher production costs hurt end users

PHUSADEE ARUNMAS

Rising oil prices, a key factor behind the country's economic slowdown, are a blessing in disguise for the Thai rubber industry, which benefits from high prices as well.

``Whenever speculators drive the price of oil higher, rubber futures follow,'' said Dr Pongsak Kerdvongbundit, managing director of Vong Bundit Co, a major rubber exporter.

According to Dr Pongsak, the prices of the two products tend to go hand-in-hand. Benchmark Tokyo rubber futures last week rallied to a nine-year high on expectations that tyremakers will switch to using natural rubber instead of costlier synthetic rubber, a petrochemical product.

Soaring global oil prices have resulted in a knock-on effect for synthetic rubber, the price of which has for the first time in four decades fallen out of sync with its natural counterpart. This has, in turn, spurred demand for natural rubber as end-users seek a cheaper substitute.

The price of synthetic rubber is normally about US$450 per tonne higher than natural rubber.

However, it must be noted that a drop in inventory in Japan because of falling supplies from Thailand, the world's top exporter of natural rubber, also contributed to last week's rally. Japan buys about 60% of its rubber imports from Thailand.

Production in Thailand has been hurt by drought. Rubber output is expected to drop about 10% this year to three million tonnes, while global demand is projected to remain strong at about eight million tonnes, up 3% from last year.

Dr Pongsak admitted that the current price surge might cause a delay in rubber shipments by Thai exporters, but the impact was expected to be limited.

Rubber supplies normally fall from around February, when the ``wintering'' dry season starts in southern Thailand. During the season, rubber trees shed leaves and latex output declines.

Production usually returns to normal by early May, but this year drought has persisted in the main producing area in the South, and buyers are still waiting for shipments.

``Thai producers and exporters who sell rubber forward have to negotiate a lot with their clients as the current volatile conditions in the market could result in extensive losses,'' he said.

However, the delay in shipments is expected to be addressed over the next two to three months as the new output begins to be released into the market, he said.

He said that delayed shipments by Thai exporters had prompted some users to buy rubber block from Indonesia where the output is expected to increase by 10% this year to 2.2 million tonnes.

According to Dr Pongsak, on June 7, the price of crude rubber at the Hat Yai central market was 62-63 baht per kg, a gain of 20-30% over the last few months.

He voiced support for the government's one million rai rubber plantation scheme, saying it would increase productivity and boost Thailand's competitiveness against the likes of Indonesia and Malaysia.

Currently, Thailand's rubber plantations cover 12.62 million rai.

According to the Export Promotion Department, the country exported a total of 3.28 million tonnes of rubber last year worth US$3.4 billion or about 137.60 billion baht. This year, the Commerce Ministry is projecting exports worth $3.6 billion.

However, while the local rubber market is bullish, end users such as rubber glove manufacturers are complaining.

Prachai Kongwaree, president of Thai Rubber Glove Manufacturers Association, said the price of third-grade smoked sheet which is now about 63 baht per kg, had raised the 70-member group's production costs by US$2.50 to $3.50 per 1,000 pieces.

Rubber latex, a key raw material in rubber gloves, which accounts for 55-60% of the production cost, has risen 30% in price this year. Because of higher production costs, manufacturers in Indonesia and Malaysia have hiked the prices of their gloves by 10-20% said Mr Prachai, who added that local glove manufacturers would likely follow suit soon.

Rubber gloves in Thailand now cost about about US$14-18 per 1,000 pieces.

Mr Prachai said that manufacturers had asked the government to set a ceiling on the price of rubber at 60 baht per kg.

The government was also urged to take steps to encourage greater co-operation between the three major rubber glove producing countries _ Thailand, Indonesia and Malaysia_to monitor the industry. Currently, Thai manufacturers produce over 30 billion pieces of rubber gloves per year, with exports accounting for about 90% of the total production. Rubber glove exports generate over 24 billion baht revenue to the country per year.

In terms of production, Thailand is second only to Malaysia which has annual production capacity of about 60 billion pieces. Indonesia is the third largest manufacturer with annual production of around billion pieces per year.

The three countries account for up to 90% of world rubber glove production, which has been growing by 10% annually.

--------------

No mention of condoms, which in the main are produced in Thailand....... Hmmm.

[Diggerbasher]

bina there was a colour supplement with the Bangkok Post the other day regarding a large goat dairy in Thailand and the goats are what i would call english ones:

Mah Boonkrong Dairy Goats Co plans to increase production of goat milk by importing more dairy goats from abroad, with the aim of boosting its herd to 30,000 over the next three years. The company operates the largest full-scale dairy goat farm in Thailand, with currently more than 7,000 dairy goats. President Sirichai Bulakul said the company would spend hundreds of millions of baht to purchase dairy goats from Australia, New Zealand and China, which would enable it to increase total output of goat milk to 60 tonnes a day from three tonnes a day currently. Consequently, the company plans to boost production to 12 tonnes by the end of the year, bringing its total sales volume to 60,000 190cc bottles per day.

Mah Boonkrong Dairy Goats set up its first farm along with a pasteurising factory in Pathum Thani in the middle of last year with 600 imported dairy goats. Sales of Sirichai goat milk are now about 10,000 bottles a day. The product is sold directly to more than 6,000 customers around the country. He said the company used direct sales in order to ensure that its customers get 100% pasteurised fresh milk even though the shelf life of the milk is 10 days.

The guy has got the goats on 2000 rai of land.

[plachon]

bina there was a colour supplement with the Bangkok Post the other day regarding a large goat dairy in Thailand and the goats are what i would call english ones:

Mah Boonkrong Dairy Goats Co plans to increase production of goat milk by importing more dairy goats from abroad, with the aim of boosting its herd to 30,000 over the next three years. The company operates the largest full-scale dairy goat farm in Thailand, with currently more than 7,000 dairy goats. President Sirichai Bulakul said the company would spend hundreds of millions of baht to purchase dairy goats from Australia, New Zealand and China, which would enable it to increase total output of goat milk to 60 tonnes a day from three tonnes a day currently. Consequently, the company plans to boost production to 12 tonnes by the end of the year, bringing its total sales volume to 60,000 190cc bottles per day.

Mah Boonkrong Dairy Goats set up its first farm along with a pasteurising factory in Pathum Thani in the middle of last year with 600 imported dairy goats. Sales of Sirichai goat milk are now about 10,000 bottles a day. The product is sold directly to more than 6,000 customers around the country. He said the company used direct sales in order to ensure that its customers get 100% pasteurised fresh milk even though the shelf life of the milk is 10 days.

The guy has got the goats on 2000 rai of land.

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Don't know whether to be pleased or saddened by this piece of news. I missed the B. Post supplement, but would've been v. interested to read it, as I've long said there is good potential for goat raising in Thailand to anyone prepared to listen. But, I'm not sure if going so big, so fast is such a good idea.

If he is going to be raising so many goats on 2,000 rai of land in Pathum Thani (shit, the dude must be loaded!), then my only guess he is going for maximum intensive raising, where the animals will be fed supplements, concentrates and in the end, hormones, antibiotics and all the other acoutrements of modern-day dairy farming. If profit is the only motive of such rapid expansion, then society and the environment will suffer as a consequence.

So, while goat raising in Thailand does still have great potential at the right scale of operations, such a huge herd and attitude will only hurt the business for smaller operators in the future. On the other hand, he might be being too greedy and put himself out of business, although if he owns that amount of land, he's not going bankrupt anytime soon!

Anyway, will be interested to see if goat's milk ever catches on amongst Somchai Public in the next year or two. Anybody ever seen this brand for sale and where?

[RamdomChances]

If he is going to be raising so many goats on 2,000 rai of land in Pathum Thani (shit, the dude must be loaded!), then my only guess he is going for maximum intensive raising, where the animals will be fed supplements, concentrates and in the end, hormones, antibiotics and all the other acoutrements of modern-day dairy farming. If profit is the only motive of such rapid expansion, then society and the environment will suffer as a consequence.

Where have you been Pla? Still hugging those treees I see

You have to feed concentrates to dairy animals to keep their weight up, no matter how you keep and graze them. A good milking cow here will give around 25-30 kg of milk a day at its peak, its body has to produce that and there is no way they can eat enough grass to do it, even feeding concentrate they loose weight for the first 3 months after giving birth.

I've got the websites or brocures of most of the big animal medical suppliers here in Thailand and I've never seen any "growth" hormones for sale, you can get ones for conseption problems but even these are not that easy to come by nor find someone who actually knows how to use them propley.Probably not a problem for the really big boys though as they would have their own vets, we usually sell ours if we are having problems.

Antibiotics... well how are you going to treat deseases without them?

I would imagine that profit would be his only motive for such expansion, can think of any other reason to do it really.

It is a lot of &lt;deleted&gt; animals though, I'm not sure how much milk a goat gives on ave but I'm assuming that he's trying to expand his herd so that out of those 7,000 that he has now at least 3,500 would be imature goats probably more(thats the sort of ratio for dairy asuming you just sell off the males and keep the females) If there are 7,000 milkers and he's geting 3 tons a day. Thats less than half a kilo a goat I could probably do 3 tons of cows milk with less than 300 head of cows, just does not seem to work out to me (we average across the herd about 12kg/cow a day the ave here is around 10kg with places like ChokChai probably doing about 14kg). If he is doing it intensivly then he also has loads of infrastructure costs,staff ect. Can't really see how the numbers would work out. Bina can probably throw sone more light on that

[bina]

well, thats a bit of interesting news, too bad i dont get the bangkok post (u can scan and send?)...

will check figures here for Tnuva (the official israeli dairy old fashioned style, i think they do goats as an industry, but they specialize in cows)

most of the goat herds here are still 'boutique' farms and 'label' cheeses , like boutique wines... i.e. all are pastured goats with supplements such as soy powder, cracked corn, crushed oats, alfalfa hay and probably some do the propelene glycol additives (like randoms urea additive to help the cow or goat utilize roughage to the utmost, depending on the type of hay)... and production is limited, usually the people doing the goat thing are also organic types, or 'natural' and animal quality of life oriented, so they dont do intensive farming....the cheeses cost a fortune... and almost none of these dairies will sell milk , only cheese and the clientel is not 'the people' but the yuppy/hiso etc types since a dinky piece of french style cheese costs and arm and a leg....

all dairy producing ruminants must get additional calories /carbohydrates... usually kilo of grain to a liter of milk , and free eating hay or lactating goat/cow pellets (18% protein)

30,000 boggles the mind. some of the larger herds i know about here are only going towards 1000 head (not including kids)!!!.. he's not pasturing i dont think (how much is a rai to a dunam?)... and he may cycle one and a half pregnancies to a year (150 day pregnancy) and tropical goats can cycle again so: half a year lactation, then one month flushing towards pregnancy, etc...) plus he will use sponges and hormones for inducing pregnancy and getting twins... the kids are moved straignt away to bottled colustorum (no johnnes disease etc), and males at 7 months would go to slaughter, etc....milking is machine i guess ...

actually i would be really curious to learn more about that farm etc.... maybe by the time i can if ever get to thailand, i can open a boutique organic goat cheese shop/farm... or maybe raise buffalo and make thai mozerella......

as for drugs: most big places use sulfa for coccidiosis before turning out to pasture, before birthing, and before weaning if kids are nursing (for meat goats); or some additive to the pellets if they are feed lot kids (again for meat goats) just like chickens, etc ., etc... to my knowlege growth hormones arent given to dairy herds since bigger body mass does not make better udder... actually there is a ratio for udder size preferable/optimal... and meat goats put on body mass very quickly (chekc out boer south african meat goats if anyone is interested)

and then of course, there is the problem of the ozone (dont new zealanders have a problem with ozone due to sheep gas?) no joke

how much does a bottle of this milk cost??? who are the clientel?? why would somebody go so intensively in to dairy goats??? in thailand??

plachon, the only positive thing is that the goats waste is slightly more managable then cows' waste due to the nature of the shit: pellet vs. patty

someone good at math can work out this:

The ISGBA(israeli goat org. which doesnt  include beduin goat herds)  incorporates also 28 goats farms with appx. 5,000 lactating animals which have, during 2000, produced about 3.5 million litres of milk.

so this thai goat guy must be very very very rich, or very bored , or something....

Edited July 20, 2005 by bina

[RamdomChances]

The ISGBA(israeli goat org. which doesnt  include beduin goat herds)  incorporates also 28 goats farms with appx. 5,000 lactating animals which have, during 2000, produced about 3.5 million litres of milk.

Works out about 2 liters a day, which is around what would of thought.

Whats a Dunam? there are 2.5 rai to the acre or 1 rai= 1600 square meters

Edited July 20, 2005 by RamdomChances

[Bizz]

Spent a pleasant hour or two reading this tread.

Wonder if I imported some Lepricorns now they would not have there pots of gold but I am sure they would find some very quick with all that Thai gold hidden under the bed.

On a more serious side, I also am interested in purchasing land with rubber trees with the same idea .Idle hands and idle minds.

[Bizz]

Oh Dunam 1000sq meters

[RamdomChances]

Here is the link for the goat farm, turns out he's Mr Chockchai's brother!!

http://www.sirichaigoatmilk.com/english/home.htm

[Egor]

Has anyone tried to grow tobacco? My Thai father in law is a sucker for the smokes.... but havn't yet taken the time to try to grow it. Being a native Virginian I figure if anyone can grow tobacco in Thailand it would be me.

Although I did kill my cactus by over watering it.

[chownah]

Has anyone tried to grow tobacco? My Thai father in law is a sucker for the smokes.... but havn't yet taken the time to try to grow it. Being a native Virginian I figure if anyone can grow tobacco in Thailand it would be me. 

Although I did kill my cactus by over watering it. 

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There is an entire cigarette industry here and it starts with tobacco which is a commonly grown cash crop here.

[plachon]

Where have you been Pla? Still hugging those treees I see

You have to feed concentrates to dairy animals to keep their weight up, no matter how you keep and graze them. A good milking cow here will give around 25-30 kg of milk a day at its peak, its body has to produce that and there is no way they can eat enough grass to do it, even feeding concentrate they loose weight for the first 3 months after giving birth.

I've got the websites or brocures of most of the big animal medical suppliers here in Thailand and I've never seen any "growth" hormones for sale, you can get ones for conseption problems but even these are not that easy to come by nor find someone who actually knows how to use them propley.Probably not a problem for the really big boys though as they would have their own vets, we usually sell ours if we are having problems.

Antibiotics... well how are you going to treat deseases without them?

I would imagine that profit would be his only motive for such expansion, can think of any other reason to do it really.

It is a lot of &lt;deleted&gt; animals though, I'm not sure how much milk a goat gives on ave but I'm assuming that he's trying to expand his herd so that out of those 7,000 that he has now at least 3,500 would be imature goats probably more(thats the sort of ratio for dairy asuming you just sell off the males and keep the females) If there are 7,000 milkers and he's geting 3 tons a day. Thats less than half a kilo a goat I could probably do 3 tons of cows milk with less than 300 head of cows, just does not seem to work out to me (we average across the herd about 12kg/cow a day the ave here is around 10kg with places like ChokChai probably doing about 14kg). If he is doing it intensivly then he also has loads of infrastructure costs,staff ect. Can't really see how the numbers would work out. Bina can probably throw sone more light on that

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Hi RC! Been busy mate, and not hugging trees, so much as planting them and weeding around them. The rainy season has now come with a vengeance and everything is growing apace.

I've got no problem with feeding concentrates and using antibiotics to treat disease, in moderation, but there's a lot of dairy farms here in Thailand as you should know, that feed both in excess. Cows & goats want grass and roughage, and in the latter's case want to browse on leaves and bushes. Keeping them penned up and mostly fed on concentrates is not an ideal life (neither is being a veal calf, which witnessing them crated up on a kibbutz in Israel, put me off veal for life Bina). All too many dairy farms in Thailand are likely feeding antibiotics as propylactics, unless standards have tightened up since I saw this practice 12-14 years ago. I try to limit the amount of milk I consume as a result.

But this Sirichai goat herd is interesting, having checked out the website (thanks for that link RC). He's importing pure bred Saanen goats, which as the name suggests, used to come from the Alpine pastures of Switzerland, and are hardly "hardy, tropical goats", one would expect for Pathum Thani. These are specialist, high yielding milk goats and although white (which helps a tad in deflecting sunlight and being camouflaged in snow!), are just not designed for the heat of central Thailand. They would also hate the humidity and heavy rain at this time of year. I should know, I used to keep a few and always remember one big buck I borrowed from Khon Kaen Uni herd to mate with farmers' mixed breed stock and died within days of being caught out in an April shower and catching a cold! Darn thing just keeled over after wheezing a few days and snuffed it. Bit embarrassing really handing back a carcass of their prize stud goat!

So, from this I can guess that they are going to be having health probs and lots of vet visits and no doubt lots of antibiotic and other medicine applications. No prob., if as I say, he doesn't try to milk while they're on antibiotics or other potent medicine, but lax enforcement and greed beign what it is round these parts, then I can guess that there is going to be things getting into that milk occasionally you wouldn't want to be consuming if you are concerned about your health. Of course, lots of people are consuming this shit on a regular basis, every time they tuck into pork, chicken, prawns, etc., so maybe a little extra ain't going to do ya any harm, but then again one day you might just regret when a bacteria gets in your body that is resistant to all the antibiotics you've been consuming on a regular basis in trace doses.

All this said, I'll still keep an open mind on this milk (although I would prefer that the herd was mixed breed with a tropical variety and he wasn't expanding so quickly) and it's quality, until I've tasted it. I like goats milk, esp. as ice cream, but can't stand it in my coffee (beware!). However, I'll be prepared to stick my neck out and guess that the motivation behing importing 30,000 goats is not for Sirichai to raise them, so much as to sell them to other farmers at a healthy profit. But first, he has to create an aura that they are the best thing since kownieow mamuang and that is what the website and supplement in BP is about. Buttering up the market for Plan B - selling them to the gullible punter. We've had the ostrich, croc, soft-shelled turtle, pure-bred Holstein Friesan, come and go making mountains for the early pioneer importers (often politicians), and causing the masses who were taken in by the sweet talk of "huge profits" to be taken for a ride, adn we're currently in a Hindu-Brahman floppy eared monster cow boom and bust cycle, so now I guess it is the turn of the humble Saanen goat to join the ranks of the "seemed a good idea at the time" list of animals to enter Thailand and make a mint for the importer.

Well, that's my take on this business. Take it or leave it, but don't say you weren't warned that the Saanen is not the ideal goat for the Thai environment.

[chownah]

Since goat milk sells for more than cow milk (I think) do you think it would be hard to detect if you adultered your goat milk with cow milk.....?

[RamdomChances]

Hi RC! Been busy mate, and not hugging trees, so much as planting them and weeding around them. The rainy season has now come with a vengeance and everything is growing apace. ohmy.gif

I've got no problem with feeding concentrates and using antibiotics to treat disease, in moderation, but there's a lot of dairy farms here in Thailand as you should know, that feed both in excess. Cows & goats want grass and roughage, and in the latter's case want to browse on leaves and bushes. Keeping them penned up and mostly fed on concentrates is not an ideal life (neither is being a veal calf, which witnessing them crated up on a kibbutz in Israel, put me off veal for life Bina). All too many dairy farms in Thailand are likely feeding antibiotics as propylactics, unless standards have tightened up since I saw this practice 12-14 years ago. I try to limit the amount of milk I consume as a result

I dont really know anywhere that feeds concentrates to excess. It just does'nt work for several reasons one is the expense at around 6 bhat/kg its the single biggest expense on a dairy farm. Another is it just does'nt have the bulk, increasing the concentrate with out giving the right ammount of roughage will not produce more milk (mabye fatter cows but that's not good either). Thats not saying that some places dont just keep them penned and feed, hay,silage,cut grass ect, the concentrete is usually given when milking at about 1 kg/2kg of milk production. The most we give is 10kg a day for a cow thats just had a baby and is giving 20+ kg of milk a day. Keeping them penned IMO is not good higher incedence of mastitis, easier to spread desease ect

As for antibiotics in the milk I can only speak for the dairies I have experiance with, but no way. Our milk is sampled 2 times a day (when we send it to the dairy) if it contains antibiotics I would be liable to buy the whole days procuction from around 70 farms. All medicens (if applicable) have a milk witholding period printed on the lable, this is only a guideline and after injection you can not send the milk for x number of days. It is then checked seaperatly at the dairy for antibiotics content, you cannot send the milk until it passes this test.

Over use of antibiotics well mabye as the level of the vets here is pretty poor and sometimes the inject it and see method comes into account, but as some of the stronger antibiotics have a whitholding period of around 10 days injecting it is not something to be taken lightly, a 20kg a day cow would mean lossing 200kg of milk thats over 2000 bhat straigh off your profit as you still have to feed it the same.

pure-bred Holstein Friesan, .............. we're currently in a Hindu-Brahman floppy eared monster cow boom

Now i'm with you all the way on this, its supprising how many dairy farmers still think a pure bred Holstein Friesan is a good thing, they are a real pain to look after, OK high milk yeilds but more prone to sickness, mastitis, parasites and a real pain to breed(the conseption rates here are terrible for them)If you have a prime HF dairy cow that wont get pregnant it all of a suden becomes a not very good beef cow!! I dont buy anything more than about 80% HF.

What is it about those Hindu-Brahman floppy eared cows I've been trying for ages to work it out, they can change hands for silly money (hundreds of thousands) and the only reason I can see for it is that people will pay it, one reply I got as to why they were so expensive was that they were beautiful

[bina]

chownah: yes, someone like me who gets the milk straight from the teat can taste and smell the difference, but more importantly, my stomach feels the difference, as do a few children allergic to cow milk but yeah, the same as olive oil, lots of 'doctoring' i would excpect

saanaan: plachon, spot on... i hate them BUT here we also mix them with the baladi (local types: syrian/chami, beduin black etc) to get what two farms near me have: an excellenct high liter milker but very scrub hardy with a high udder (no thorns in the tits), and more amenable to heat/ weather...hot or cold....all goats hate rain

the white coat doesnt help (sunburn is a problem), better a goat with darker short coat, saanan have longer roughter outer hairs and under hair also

but thai like white anything even in animals, and the saanaan looks 'goat' like european milk goat with all the connotations... i suspect u may be correct about the 'fad' possibility as opposed to 'local scrub type' , less glitter (like the giant 4wd pickups vs. a decent truck that isnt beautiful but works)

am also curious about vet stuff they would do when buying and selling since there are several diseases that do not affect people but can decimate an expensive herd in 4 yrs, and here they still dont even do the blood checks for them (caseaous lymphoma a.k.a. psuedo tuberculosis, not the same as johnes...)so he would buy, breed, sell (not maintaining the same standards as the swiss), but only animals he would cull anyway

i just lost a 5000$ alpaca to this (she was sold to me as a 'healthy animal' not a cull, and the alpaca farm here never sells females, should have made me wonder, but never got pregnant and now i know why she was sold and now i know why she didnt get pregnant , her ovaries were abscessed!!!) and guess what? cant test animals for this, no blood tests done here, only in the states.... its super contagious, cause lack of thriftiness, can be subclinical and there are whole herds in the states, and israel with it.... bad news for any farmer

how bout starting an alpaca farm...? lots of money to be made from the wool, tourists to come and see them, etc.... ..

i just heard that an egg in thailand costs 4 baht now?!!!

[harry]

In looking at agricultural production it must be remembered that the bulk of thais are subsistance farmers ,they sell what they dont need for their own consumption. this keeps commodity prices low by our standards.The temptation is always there to over capitalise eq. (pension off the buffalo and kubota and buy a 4wd tractor) .

Better farm practises is the way to go,Isaan currently produces about 1.9 tonne per hectare of aromatic rice, Vietnam is producing up to 12 tonne per hectare .

The reasons are many fold ,but the answers can be found in official govt websites but it mainly comes down to farming practises.(have your ever tried to tell a thai how to do something,they dont even listen to their own experts in their fields)

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Vietnam has more than 1 crop annually....that is possibly the reason behind the yield.

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2 times 1.9=3.8!

[RamdomChances]

Since goat milk sells for more than cow milk (I think) do you think it would be hard to detect if you adultered your goat milk with cow milk.....?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just seen that goats milk for sale in Big C here, so it must be being distributed nationaly. 20 bhat for a 190 ml bottle so selling for just over 100 bhat/liter

[bina]

so who are the clientel, its certainly not the subsistence farmer types... is it in vogue now to drink? 100 baht is how much my worker's wife makes a day!!!

by the by.... the saanaan goat seems to be making a comeback to tropical places... they are the new IN goat here also... gives high milk production... i guess they dont pasture them, but they can be raised in dairy cow type set ups more easily then the scrub types that actually get sick when in desnse set up...

more and more though i would say that any kind of agriculture that's not techno agriculture is just not worth it if its not for your own home use (homestead style/subsistence farming).... doesnt matter what country youre in really... if your not a big honcho with links or ownership to vets/chemical/drug/equipment suppliers and large gins/mills etc then your chances get slimmer by the year... too labour intensive and dependant on forces beyond your control, and the big guys are always real hustlers...

thats why many farms go boutique (specialty items that are pricey with a known and specific clientel): vineyards, goat cheeses, specialty fruits etc.... i dont suppose that 'pick your own' has caught on yet in thailand among those that want to 'feel as a farmer for a day'?

looks like eggs will soon be a specialty item also.....

[Jeff1]

thats why many farms go boutique (specialty items that are pricey with a known and specific clientel): vineyards, goat cheeses, specialty fruits etc.... i dont suppose that 'pick your own' has caught on yet in thailand among those that want to 'feel as a farmer for a day'?

looks like eggs will soon be a specialty item also.....

Oh, I think that pick your own really has caught on in Issan but they feel like a farmer everyday . I think it would be very hard to get people to drive all that way to pick fruit or whatever . It does not seem to be the mentality here . Most I see want everything done FOR them

Eggs , a specialty item ...and chickens too , soon .

I like your idea of " going boutique " but you would need a solid contract first .

[bina]

just to bring up an old thread, saw this in the business jobs section and thought that someone in this group of threads might be interested, etc: this can also go to the what to do in issan for business thread

Dear Mr. KM Fubar,

My name is Eric Thitaporn. Presently I have a project to grow the 100% fresh and residue free vegetables in portable pallets in a farm. Then the matured veges will be transported to the garden center near the city for the consumers to pick and harvest the vegetables. It is strictly environment friendly with non use of plastics bags and non recycle products. This project will be environmental friendly and use energy saving for the country. This project is to be launch in Chiangmai, Northern Thailand, and hopefully a franchise business internationally. If you do share the same interest, please contact me at [email protected]. I have the Business Plan prepared.

Best regards.

Eric.

this was in todays threads , just wonderinggggggggg???????? ... could this really work in thailand???

[btate]

well, thats a bit of interesting news, too bad i dont get the bangkok post (u can scan and send?)...

will check figures here for Tnuva (the official israeli dairy old fashioned style, i think they do goats as an industry, but they specialize in cows)

most of the goat herds here are still 'boutique' farms and 'label' cheeses , like boutique wines... i.e. all are pastured goats with supplements such as soy powder, cracked corn, crushed oats, alfalfa hay and probably some do the propelene glycol additives (like randoms urea additive to help the cow or goat utilize roughage to the utmost, depending on the type of hay)... and production is limited, usually the people doing the goat thing are also organic types, or 'natural' and animal quality of life oriented, so they dont do intensive farming....the cheeses cost a fortune... and almost none of these dairies will sell milk , only cheese and the clientel is not 'the people' but the yuppy/hiso etc types since a dinky piece of french style cheese costs and arm and a leg....

all dairy producing ruminants must get additional calories /carbohydrates... usually kilo of grain to a liter of milk , and free eating hay or lactating goat/cow pellets (18% protein)

30,000 boggles the mind. some of the larger herds i know about here are only going towards 1000 head (not including kids)!!!.. he's not pasturing i dont think (how much is a rai to a dunam?)... and he may cycle one and a half pregnancies to a year (150 day pregnancy) and tropical goats can cycle again so: half a year lactation, then one month flushing towards pregnancy, etc...) plus he will use sponges and hormones for inducing pregnancy and getting twins... the kids are moved straignt away to bottled colustorum (no johnnes disease etc), and males at 7 months would go to slaughter, etc....milking is machine i guess ...

actually i would be really curious to learn more about that farm etc.... maybe by the time i can if ever get to thailand, i can open a boutique organic goat cheese shop/farm... or maybe raise buffalo and make thai mozerella......

as for drugs: most big places use sulfa for coccidiosis before turning out to pasture, before birthing, and before weaning if kids are nursing (for meat goats); or some additive to the pellets if they are feed lot kids (again for meat goats) just like chickens, etc ., etc... to my knowlege growth hormones arent given to dairy herds since bigger body mass does not make better udder... actually there is a ratio for udder size preferable/optimal... and meat goats put on body mass very quickly (chekc out boer south african meat goats if anyone is interested)

and then of course, there is the problem of the ozone (dont new zealanders have a problem with ozone due to sheep gas?) no joke

how much does a bottle of this milk cost??? who are the clientel?? why would somebody go so intensively in to dairy goats??? in thailand??

plachon, the only positive thing is that the goats waste is slightly more managable then cows' waste due to the nature of the shit: pellet vs. patty

someone good at math can work out this:

The ISGBA(israeli goat org. which doesnt include beduin goat herds) incorporates also 28 goats farms with appx. 5,000 lactating animals which have, during 2000, produced about 3.5 million litres of milk.

so this thai goat guy must be very very very rich, or very bored , or something....

Very very rich his appropriate, he owns Bangkok Golf Club in Pathum Thani. The dairy is on the premises but not 3000 goats. Looks to be a small outfit, but new and high tech

Edited October 29, 2006 by btate

[Maizefarmer]

I've met the guy several times - he is an "entrepuner" in the true sense of the word and will give anything a go.

Goats milk in Thailand is very much a product for the well to do or thiose who are not tolerent of cows milk (the composition is very different) and can be determined with a litmus paper type test.

Adulterating goats milk with cows milk? - the 2 taste very different to each other, ,and anyone consuming it because of cows milk intolerance or some other health reason, which accounts for more than half the consumed volume in Thailand (excepting the Muslim communities down south), would a notice the taste, and if they didin't would get sick and then take a closer look at the milk they were drinking - as the sympotons the get would be entirely consistant with drinking cows milk i.e. you would get away with it once, but not again.

Tim

[bina]

geez, a resurrected post....

[jamescollister]

Has anybody looked a vanilla as a crop. I looked at planting some a few years ago, big returns for small farms, but like all things one big problem, no market in Thailand, as most of the buyers are Nth American or EU food companies who need large volumes to make exporting economic.

If there is anyone who knows about exporting food stuffs out ,I would be interested in knowing if it is possible on a small scale, or is it in the realms of the big producers only. JIM

[Rinrada]

Couple of our new residents in the North...gobble gobble....

[Maizefarmer]

Exporting it shouldn't be a problem - raw or processed.

Yes - sounds like another option.

Tell us a bit about it: what are the cultivation farming requirements, climate requirements and water requirements? Would Thailand be a good climate to growth it in?

How long to grow and how what are the potential or real earnings per acre/hectare or rai?

What has to do be done to process the stuff and sell it?

Is it a big plant or small plant?

Tim