Respect

[SoCal]

Bitterfly- Hello, ever hear of the electorate system? Gore won the majority, Bush the electorate. He who wins the electorate wins the Presidency. Then Gore tried to steal the election through the courts, chad this/chad that, in solely Democratic  districts.

All right you revisionist, who knows absolutely nothing about America, you continue with your babble, as I am going back to Rolling Stone's babe.

[Membrane]

The US will surrender sooner or later to those terrorists, it's a war they can't win and they know it.

I think that's got to be one of the most asinine remarks I've ever seen here--and I've seen quite a few!

Bitterfly, stop frothing at the mouth and calm down for a minute... then maybe you can come to your senses.  First of all, your remarks comparing Bush to Hitler, are w-a-y out of line...  Don't you realize that if the U.S. wanted to, it could have made one big nuclear-melted parking lot out of both Afghanistan and Iraq?  There's enough fire power there--enough sophisticated weapons--to split the planet in half.  That's not to brag, but to point out the enormous amount of RESTRAINT used in dealing with both situations.

Wake Up!  I don't know where you're getting your information--or whose propanganda you are listening to, but face the facts...

      If the U.S. really wanted to stir things up, you would see it and it would be in no uncertain terms, my friend!

If you care to stop and carefully look at it, what Bush did with Afghanistan was go in and remove the Taliban and look for Osama, and that's about it--oh, and spend billions of U.S. tax-payer dollars to help rebuild the country, building schools and hospitals, free the Afghani people, give women and girls the right to go to school and become educated instead of being oppressed and abused by women-hating religious sadists, etc.

The same thing goes for Iraq.  The truth is simple: the Bush administration saw Saddam as a threat who for years taunted the west, ignored 12 years of pleading from the U.N., aided terrorists and there was every indication things were heating up to a boiling point in the middle east, even worse than we've ever seen it.  The oil?  Of course, I'm sure that was a factor, but not that the U.S. would permanently claim it by force.  Yes, remove Saddam's regime--by force--then use oil profits to rebuild the country, and leave, but with relations in tact that would allow the U.S. to withdraw and go back to being a good customer.  Also to leave Iraq a stronger country and with with all those oil profits going to the Iraqi people--as it should have been, all along, if it weren't for Saddam squandering it on presidential palaces.

Yes, the U.S. did invade Afghanistan.  Yes, the U.S. invaded Iraq.  ...And unfortunately, because of the crazed tenacity of militant extremist Islamics, before it's over, there may be other countries that will need to be cleaned up a bit.  But these strikes against terrorism are NOT ABOUT DOMINATION by the U.S.  If you pay attention, you will see it's always about trying to cut out the cancer (the terrorists) and then leave enough money and support to rebuild the country.

Anything can be picked apart anything and distorted, and I'm sure you can find other web sites (or buddies) who have the same one-sided view and you can put a spin on things any way you want...  But then, maybe you've never had the opportunity to sit down and have a conversation with someone who has the opposing view?

[Butterfly]

Membrane, are you drinking the Kool-Aid again ? this has to be the most stupid and naive arguments I have seen in a long time.

You arguments belong to the official propanda party line of Faux News. I don't know, did you have your brain surgically removed ? try the blue pill, dude, you will become free again.

And the Talibans are back into power over 50% of the country, so stop the patriotic BS of "saving people from starvation and repression". We all know the US does not give a rat ass about the Iraqis and Afghanistan and only care about the oil. Do you see those pipelines in Afganistan or are you also blind ?

Frankly you deserve Bush and I hope he will take all your individual rights away. We will see how long it will take your dead brain to realize this.

You should read books sometimes, you might learn something new.

[Butterfly]

Bitterfly- Hello, ever hear of the electorate system? Gore won the majority, Bush the electorate. He who wins the electorate wins the Presidency. Then Gore tried to steal the election through the courts, chad this/chad that, in solely Democratic  districts.

All right you revisionist, who knows absolutely nothing about America, you continue with your babble, as I am going back to Rolling Stone's babe.

It's called the collegial system, you dim-witt

Revisionist ? you must be joking. What's your "reason du jour" for the invasion of Iraq ?

Gore won Florida, we all know that, with 1 million vote in the lead nation wide. He was not given enough time to do the recount. Of course, the Governor (Jebb Bush, remember him ?) made sure that this task was impossible among other things. Also you failed to mention the "black vote" that were systematically denied thanks to a well planned scam done 1 year before to erase every black voters from the voter list.

I guess that's what you call revisionism.

[SoCal]

Bitterfly- Did your Mom have the shakes? Someone sure must have dropped you a lot on your head when you were younger. I have rarely read such wildly contrived posts. Your ego and your imagination are in a race, and apparently the skies the limit.

Since you need to resort to name calling you dufus, it is the electoral college, or the electorate. It is not the collegial system.

Don't tell me how my country works you self serving plebian. You know nothing about America.

It is almost the weekend, and I will spend no more time on you today. Membrane can take care of your reply to his post.

That said, good day, and KMA.

[Membrane]

You arguments belong to the official propanda party line of Faux News.

You should read books sometimes, you might learn something new.

Right, well I can see we're back to name-calling, hair-pulling and swimming in testosterone...

OK, Bitterfly, where do you get your information?  Hmm...?  What news channel do you watch?  What web sites do you go to?  What books have you read, that is allowing you to capture such a wide and unencumbered world view that you see "The Truth"?  Hmm...?

Maybe it was all that "collegial" education you got, that is finally paying off, eh?    

       ...heh heh heh...    

You sure seem young... hmm...

Actually, I think I agree with SoCal.. I think all this back and forth stuff is kind of pointless and could go on forever.  I don't think it's productive, at least not where you are concerned Bitterfly.  You are going to believe whatever you want and nothing is going to change you.  

But I'm not here to argue politics or to give you a pal to argue with.  I'm here on this board to get info on Thailand.  I just got tired of all the anti-American propaganda here and I wanted to put my point of view out there to get equal time, and I have.

[Rolling Stone]

What in the world does the collegial system have to do with the US government????

In Korea at the moment Ozzie and don't know if the girls are still there, LOL.  If they or any friends are there when I return I will be sure to drop you a PM.

LOL@ IT, so, you mean to tell me you and Nat are married??  

[Nat]

LOL@ IT, so, you mean to tell me you and Nat are married??  

hee...hee oh no! my secret is out!  

Again, was young and needed the money    it was a very bitter divorce    

[kwiz117]

I am a guest in this country so I repect those that are in power, Right or wrong Bush is the President of the most powerful country in the world and should have the respect given to him,

Respect can not be earned from the power or by money.

Look at the way all who protested outside and inside Australian Parliament, acted in the very next day when Chinese Communist Leader addressed the Parliament.

It is not that those people who protested knows how to respect or not.

I do not respect anyone for the Power they think that they have, like the way you do.

Respect has to be earned and it is associated with human qualities and how you respect others.

The day Bush and your PM start respecting others, they will get the same respect in return.

:cool:

[OzzieMan]

Sorry ######, if that was your wife I thing we did something last night together that I should not tell you,

gee the Rolling stomne friend told me to just go for it

Okay I think this is getting just a bit out of hand with all the mud slinging so let me say

I respect your right to think the way you do

Even though tou are wrong

And end it there

Now where is she? ah yes there you are my sweet

It I really respect your wife

[Axel]

I respect your right to think the way you do

Even though tou are wrong

And end it there

Ozzie, I respect you for this although it could have become an interesting subject.

Pitty, it always comes to shouting, attacks, hates.

So the wiser head gives in.

Good hunting on your other venture...

[Butterfly]

Don't tell me how my country works you self serving plebian. You know nothing about America.

It is almost the weekend, and I will spend no more time on you today. Membrane can take care of your reply to his post.

That said, good day, and KMA.

Well, obviously you have no idea on how your country works or the world for that matter. Go back to the bars where you belong. At least you understand drinking and being drunk.

Have a nice week-end too, arguing with people like you is like arguing with a wall, why point them to the "truth" when they can barely button their shirt.

And my name is "Butterfly", I know you can't spell but at least try a copy/paste for once, you might also learn something here.

[Butterfly]

Actually, I think I agree with SoCal.. I think all this back and forth stuff is kind of pointless and could go on forever.  I don't think it's productive, at least not where you are concerned Bitterfly.  You are going to believe whatever you want and nothing is going to change you.  

But I'm not here to argue politics or to give you a pal to argue with.  I'm here on this board to get info on Thailand.  I just got tired of all the anti-American propaganda here and I wanted to put my point of view out there to get equal time, and I have.

Oh I agree, it's pointless to discuss with propaganda scripts like you guys, you are just reciting what you have heard on the News like good bots that you are. Try to watch something else than CNN and Faux News

BBC World is a good start and try reading some "real" newspaper like The Guardian, and even the New York Times

I know they are all on your "liberal media" shitlist, so keep being happy with the patriotic BS you hear all the time on those propaganda channels. And don't forget to vote for Bush in 2004: I can't wait to see the US crumble further down the toilet with "Junior" at the head of the train wreck

[OzzieMan]

Now my dear butterfly

Now it does not matter if you agree or not, just please RESPECT others right to think the way they do, and I feel in the end I have proved my point. It only takes one to start and all the idiots come out of the woodwork

I do not know what the last word means in some peoples language, but as I brought this subject into the world I will take the subject Out

(Sounds like John Wayne in one of his movies)

Lets all respect each others right to think the way we want and agree to disagree, the subject was respect.

So can we for once all say the magic word

R E S P E C T

Now that wasn't hard was it

And whats wrong with bars, they have pretty girls, a friendly smile, a drink or two, and I have no objection to guys in the bars getting drunk.

Leave more girls for me.......................

[buasaard]

You had no choice to Respect Hitler, it was good for your health, but you did not have to agree with him, and i think the majority of germans did not support him but what choice did they have.

This is not completely true. Hitler was democratically elected in 1933 with a stunning majority. Only after the election he suppressed opposition and became a dictator.

http://alexander.senate.gov/senatedesk/

Of course we cannot compare the two.

Going back to the topic, Bush and Austrialian PM deserve respect, but also the protesters deserve respect.

All democracies grant right of protesting, which in my opinion is the highest right in a democracy, and must also remember that US democracy was born thanks to a revolution made by people that I guess were defined trouble-maker or worse by the english.

[naja]

The main thing I like about this forum is the large number of critical thinkers who post commments and replies.

However,I sincerely hope the critical thinkers are not teaching children and young adults how to think.Children and young adults should be taught [instructed in?] "received "knowledge.

[bangkokblue]

Maybe i'm just a grateful lost soul, but i do find it disturbing to see fellow allied patriot's at each other's throats. May the dead rest in peace and their contribution not forgotten.

[ray23]

Hmm!!!!

KMA Sonuds like LAPD?

[tutsiwarrior]

Well, sheee..id, the next time we get a thread called RESPECT I suggest that we leave it up to Aretha and her fans to interpret the replies.

At times vicious and at times a rollicking free for all I commend Dr PP for not censoring some of the post.

To give better focus maybe the thread should have been called "forum reflections on APEC"...

not so much fun, though...

regards

[Membrane]

I can't wait to see the US crumble...

Well, at least you've finally admitted your true feelings, you disgusting piece of ####.

...And you've backed off from proving your position like the coward (and/or troll) that you are.  You've proven nothing, except that you want to flagrantly destroy a country that so many have given their very lives to create.  

So bitterfly, you get your news from the BBC and the New York Times.  So?  So how is news coming from those sources any more valid than news coming from CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, etc.?  The truth is you've already decided your point of view and you are choosing to filter out any news that doesn't fit into your anti-American world view.

Maybe you'd like to add Al-Jazeera to your list--(if it's not there already).  They really slant the news!  You'd love it!  Being nothing more than a mouth-piece for Osama, they wallow in shocking blood-and-guts photos, trying their best to incite more fear and anger, more reckless violence and more bloodshed.  They're not trying to do anything productive, their aim is to incite the masses, to produce more suicide bombers, killing innocent men, women and children without regard.  Their obvious intent is nothing more than total destruction of the west and western ideologies like freedom of speech, freedom of press, democracy--you know... little things like that.

...Just your style!

[Membrane]

I commend Dr PP for not censoring some of the post.

Yes!  I agree.  Thanks Dr. PP for allowing all this...

[tutsiwarrior]

Membrane...did you steal that titty woman avatar from chonabot?...

If so I'm surprised that there has not been a forum meltdown resulting therefrom...there is more restraint here than what we give credit to...

[Axel]

Well Ozzie did a great job to bring RESPECT in here. Did I see commendations and thanks to the Dr?

That's a first since I read in here and sometimes give some humble comment. I surely not always agree to his comments but respect to handle this forum he deserves.

Did not see of him tonight so probably trying to kill a 750 ml of grape juice or following Ozzie's commendable advice to visit a bar or two. Probbly by tomorrow the world will be back to    ???

[tutsiwarrior]

if him and Nat are gettin' it on maybe don't hold collective breath for a few days regarding Dr PP...

[Membrane]

Membrane...did you steal that titty woman avatar from chonabot?...

No, the other way around.  I barfined her over to him, for a while.  

And speaking of respect, I RESPECT her...

           

If so I'm surprised that there has not been a forum meltdown resulting therefrom...there is more restraint here than what we give credit to...

heh heh heh... good one.  You and I are still gonna have to have that beer at some point.    

[parryhandy]

Membrane can you please explain why america did invade iraq if it wasnt for oil.Do you not find it a coincidence that iraq had signed contracts with european countries to well its oil fields.Can you also explain why september 11th happened and why america are hated by so many people throughout the world ?

America will do very well out of invading iraq.The money to help rebuild iraq , damage which america has caused, will be loaned.The contracts to rebuild going to american firms at inflated prices and the oil money paid by america given back to america on interest on these loans for time immortal.A country forever in debt.

If it was because of the reasons bush gave then why doesnt america invade burma, rhodesia, somali, and the country thats openly taunted america in admitting its reopened its nuclear programme NKorea. There is no god #### OIL in these brutally run countries thats why.Due you expect people to beleive america has suddenly started caring about people under brutally opressive regimes.Dont make me laugh.

Why has america not invaded saudia arabia where a large percentage of the terrorists involved in september 11th are known to have originated.

Im not anti american per se but i am anti propaganda and bullshit.American politicians are nothing more than actors that can play a role for any situation.Good god arnold shwarzeniggers even been elected, i thought id seen it all.

[Butterfly]

So can we for once all say the magic word

R E S P E C T

Now that wasn't hard was it

And whats wrong with bars, they have pretty girls, a friendly smile, a drink or two, and I have no objection to guys in the bars getting drunk.

Leave more girls for me.......................

Actually I would agree with you here, partially.

Yeah, leaders deserve some type of respect, above all when they visit a country as a guest. I don't particularly found the "cute" intervention in the Autralian parliament usefull or in good taste. It wasn't going to change anything. Likewise, throwing a few eggs on Bush face wouldn't accomplish anything.

Likewise, I would expect host countries to pay respect to leaders like NK Jong II, Castro and even Saddam if they had to visit another country. After all, they are head of states, and should be granted RESPECT because of their diplomatic status. Don't you agree here ?

Bush however has shown little respect to anyone who would disagree with him. Actually even to the ones who would agree with him (Blair is an example as the poodle). In Germany, he couldn't even pronounce the Chancellor name and would make "cute" irrespectful remarks while he was there, right in front of the Chancellor. He was overly "confident" and "arrogant" while he was touring Europe expecting Europeans not to voice any opposition to his policies. How is that for RESPECT of your own allies ? He didn't show respect to France and the French citizens when they had the "right" and "duty" to refuse the support of his "illegal" war. How about RESPECT, when UN secretary general asked Bush to stop his BS propaganda and "wait" for the UN security council to vote on the issue first before going to war. How about RESPECT when Powell went to the UN and show his "evidence" (a total joke) and called them "hard evidence" ? How is that for RESPECT ? Taking other for more stupid than they are ?

And finally, how about RESPECT to the American people by lying deliberatly to them by taking them into a "dirty war" for the false pretense of "security". How do you like that for RESPECT ? how about the service men being killed each day for no other reasons than "protecting" and "stealing" oil from another country ? very respectful, isn't it ?

The only respect Bush deserves is a bullet in the head. At least, politically.

[Butterfly]

I can't wait to see the US crumble...

Well, at least you've finally admitted your true feelings, you disgusting piece of ####.

...And you've backed off from proving your position like the coward (and/or troll) that you are.  You've proven nothing, except that you want to flagrantly destroy a country that so many have given their very lives to create.  

So bitterfly, you get your news from the BBC and the New York Times.  So?  So how is news coming from those sources any more valid than news coming from CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, etc.?  The truth is you've already decided your point of view and you are choosing to filter out any news that doesn't fit into your anti-American world view.

[insert irellevant BS propaganda]

Please, spare me the Patriotic BS propaganda. The US has chosen a dangerous course of action and deserve every bit of it. I wouldn't care less if they went a different course, and for the record, I was 100% behind the US during Kosovo, so I am not a Pro-Peace hippie as you would like to think.

That said, you have not showed any evidence in any of your arguments here, outside the fact that you just said so. A little thin, don't you think ?

You are just reading a script, at least admit it.

[Farang Ting Tong]

Likewise, I would expect host countries to pay respect to leaders like NK Jong II, Castro and even Saddam if they had to visit another country. After all, they are head of states, and should be granted RESPECT because of their diplomatic status. Don't you agree here ?

Are you joking?

Please tell me you're joking.

[plachon]

Jeez, one goes away on a whisky-fuelled jaunt to the cool mountains of Loei for a few days (no air-con required up there now Tuts), and comes back and find a thread that's gone ballistic on one of my favourite mass debating subjects. (Refering here to Rolling stone's insightful contribution, naturally) Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Is there no justice in life?

FWIW, "Respect" is a bullshit modern term, totally abused by 90 % of its users and like "at the end of the day", I cringe whenever I hear it, but the use and practice of "restraint" is admirable most of the time. That goes for both sides of this debate, whether, Membrane/SoCal, etc. or the more vicious of Butterfly's postings. While I agree with the gist of most of what you're saying, hoping somebody "gets a bullet through their head" (whether it's GWB or his nemesis, OBL), helps the debate zilch. Whether, the violence of the extremists in Al Quaeda or the violence of the zealots (with the real WMDs) in the White House, none of these criminals deserve the respect of peaceful people the world over. But restraint is a much under-practiced concept in these troubled times of extremism and misuse of power by those elected to represent the majority.

That's enough, my hangover is coming back with a vengeance.................. I'm a fine one to talk about "restraint", eh?