Wiring Money From A Uk Bank Into A Thai Bank

[AbeSurd]

Yesterday I went into Bangkok Bank and asked about wiring money from my accounts with them (ordinary savings accounts in baht) back to my UK bank, where the money came from (Lloyds TSB sterling current account).

I was told it wouldn't be a problem so long as they could see that the money had come from abroad.

There was no limit to how much I could transfer to the UK so long as the money passed the above test.

I needed to do it in person at a main branch of Bangkok Bank (preferably one with a foreign remittances section). Take along my passport and passbooks.

The Bangkok Bank fee would be 400 baht.

The guy at the bank explained that I would NOT be able to wire the money back to the UK if I had, for example, taken the money out of the account as cash one day and paid the cash back in the next day. I suppose this is for the obvious reason that once the money leaves the account they lose track of it. Theoretically I could've meanwhile bought a car, for example, with the withdrawn money - and the money I'm paying in could in fact be, for example, from working illegally in Thailand (I have no work permit).

I suppose the lesson is: if you think you might want to wire money back, don't move it out of the bank account you wired it into. Or at least only move it to other accounts you have with the same bank.

Does anyone have any experience of wiring money back to their home country in the manner described? Is it this simple?

Anyone any idea what charges Lloyds TSB might make for receiving and converting the baht to sterling?

Do other Thai banks have the same policy?

Cheers.

[KamnanT]

I must admit, after 8 years in Thailand I remain confused about the restrictions on outbound funds transfers. Inbound transfer are unlimited, but depending on who you ask, you get different versions of the outbound transfer limits.

For example, if you wish to be able to transfer money to a foreign bank account using Bangkok Bank's internet banking service (Bualuang iBanking), you need to be able to demonstrate one of the following before they will authorise this capability:

1) That the funds are your employment income that you are transferring overseas (prove with an employment letter from work), or

2) That the funds are to pay the education fees of a family member (show invoice and evidence of family member's overseas visa status), or

3) That the funds are to support relatives living permanently overseas (show proof of their permanent resident status in another country).

Note that justifications (2) and (3) are available only to Thai nationals, so for foreigners, remittance of salary appears to be the only justification acceptable.

Searches for relevant governing legislation seem to indicate that the Exchange Control Act (B.E. 2485) and associated ministerial regulations cover this area. A summary found on eThailand.com includes the following paragraph:

"Capital Transfers by Thai Residents

Direct foreign investments by Thai residents or lending to their affiliated companies abroad not exceeding US$10 million yearly do not require authorization. The remittances to Thai emigrants permanently residing abroad are allowed up to US$1 million per person yearly provided that funds are derived from their own personal assets or inheritance. The remittances to relatives permanently residing outside Thailand are also allowed up to US$100,000 per person yearly. Any amount above this limit, permission must be obtained from the Bank of Thailand. Buying immovable assets or securities abroad also requires approval from the Bank of Thailand."

I would be very interested in the experiences of others who have tried to transfer non-trivial sums out of Thailand without one of the justifications above.

Edited December 17, 2009 by KamnanT

[AbeSurd]

I must admit, after 8 years in Thailand I remain confused about the restrictions on outbound funds transfers. Inbound transfer are unlimited, but depending on who you ask, you get different versions of the outbound transfer limits.

For example, if you wish to be able to transfer money to a foreign bank account using Bangkok Bank's internet banking service (Bualuang iBanking), you need to be able to demonstrate one of the following before they will authorise this capability:

1) That the funds are your employment income that you are transferring overseas (prove with an employment letter from work), or

2) That the funds are to pay the education fees of a family member (show invoice and evidence of family member's overseas visa status), or

3) That the funds are to support relatives living permanently overseas (show proof of their permanent resident status in another country).

Note that justifications (2) and (3) are available only to Thai nationals, so for foreigners, remittance of salary appears to be the only justification acceptable.

Searches for relevant governing legislation seem to indicate that the Exchange Control Act (B.E. 2485) and associated ministerial regulations cover this area. A summary found on eThailand.com includes the following paragraph:

"Capital Transfers by Thai Residents

Direct foreign investments by Thai residents or lending to their affiliated companies abroad not exceeding US$10 million yearly do not require authorization. The remittances to Thai emigrants permanently residing abroad are allowed up to US$1 million per person yearly provided that funds are derived from their own personal assets or inheritance. The remittances to relatives permanently residing outside Thailand are also allowed up to US$100,000 per person yearly. Any amount above this limit, permission must be obtained from the Bank of Thailand. Buying immovable assets or securities abroad also requires approval from the Bank of Thailand."

I would be very interested in the experiences of others who have tried to transfer non-trivial sums out of Thailand without one of the justifications above.

Hello KamnanT, thanks for your reply.

But I'm not sure what you're suggesting here in relation to my original post. I'm a British national. Are you saying that if and when I try to transfer funds I've wired into my Bangkok Bank account BACK to the UK bank where they came from, that I may not be able to do so?

I specifically asked the guy at Bangkok Bank if there was any limit to the amount I could send. He said there was NO limit - just so long as the bank knew the money had originated abroad. In other words, (i) they could see it had originally come from a foreign bank and (ii) they could see that I'd hadn't moved the money out of Bangkok Bank.

Note I'm not trying to do this by internet banking. He said I had to go along in person to the bank.

I think maybe you're only interested in money transfers of money that has been generated in Thailand. Fair enough, but that wasn't what my original post was about. But never mind - welcome to the thread

[AbeSurd]

"Anyone any idea what charges Lloyds TSB might make for receiving and converting the baht to sterling?"

Okay I'm going to answer my own question.

I just called Lloyds TSB.

Their response: if the amount is over £100, they charge a flat fee of £7.

As mine is a sterling account and I'd anticipate sending baht, I asked about conversion charges. She said the conversion rate at the time would apply. At the time of my call the conversion rate was 55.023 baht to the pound.

Me: So I can send you a million baht and you'll convert it to £18,174 and the only charge will be £7?

She: Yes.

[ChiangMaiFun]

Bit confused... not many times people will leave money in an account - let's say I buy a condo and sell it in 2 years? I assume i can transfer back?

[AbeSurd]

Bit confused... not many times people will leave money in an account - let's say I buy a condo and sell it in 2 years? I assume i can transfer back?

If you live in Thailand for long periods there are many reasons for keeping money in a Thai bank account. 2 examples immediately come to mind:

1. 800,000 baht deposit - to qualify for a retirement visa.

2. Living money, especially if you're trying to hedge against possible adverse currency fluctuations in the future

However, having wired your money INTO Thailand, for various reasons you may feel at some future time you want to get your money OUT of Thailand.

That's what this thread is sort of about. I think!

I think the subject of money for condo purchase and condo sale is dealt with in many other threads.

Cheers.

[chiang mai]

Bit confused... not many times people will leave money in an account - let's say I buy a condo and sell it in 2 years? I assume i can transfer back?

If you transfer in say the equivalent of 5 million baht, buy a condo, then live in it for two years and then sell the condo for 5 million baht, you will be able to transfer out of the country the amount that appears on the blue receipt from the Land Office. If someone has done a deal with the Land Office to reduce the amount of tax paid (not necessarily the seller) and the receipt is for only three million baht then you will have to find an alternate way to transfer the remaining two million - been there and done that and it's a pain but not hugely difficult.

[12DrinkMore]

"Anyone any idea what charges Lloyds TSB might make for receiving and converting the baht to sterling?"

Okay I'm going to answer my own question.

I just called Lloyds TSB.

Their response: if the amount is over £100, they charge a flat fee of £7.

As mine is a sterling account and I'd anticipate sending baht, I asked about conversion charges. She said the conversion rate at the time would apply. At the time of my call the conversion rate was 55.023 baht to the pound.

Me: So I can send you a million baht and you'll convert it to £18,174 and the only charge will be £7?

She: Yes.

You will not be able to trqansfer THB out of Thailand.

The Thais convert it to the foreign currency before it leaves the shores. Believe me, I have tried and failed.

[ChiangMaiFun]

Bit confused... not many times people will leave money in an account - let's say I buy a condo and sell it in 2 years? I assume i can transfer back?

If you transfer in say the equivalent of 5 million baht, buy a condo, then live in it for two years and then sell the condo for 5 million baht, you will be able to transfer out of the country the amount that appears on the blue receipt from the Land Office. If someone has done a deal with the Land Office to reduce the amount of tax paid (not necessarily the seller) and the receipt is for only three million baht then you will have to find an alternate way to transfer the remaining two million - been there and done that and it's a pain but not hugely difficult.

Thanks - this is what I meant... transfer in 5 mill buy a condo - 2 year sell and transfer out - the tax thing is going to catch me out as I had not considered the problems when the seller asked 'let's keep the tax down' now I will have the problem you describe

[ChiangMaiFun]

Bit confused... not many times people will leave money in an account - let's say I buy a condo and sell it in 2 years? I assume i can transfer back?

If you transfer in say the equivalent of 5 million baht, buy a condo, then live in it for two years and then sell the condo for 5 million baht, you will be able to transfer out of the country the amount that appears on the blue receipt from the Land Office. If someone has done a deal with the Land Office to reduce the amount of tax paid (not necessarily the seller) and the receipt is for only three million baht then you will have to find an alternate way to transfer the remaining two million - been there and done that and it's a pain but not hugely difficult.

The Blue Receipt... Hmmm... I have started a new thread about this

[chiang mai]

Bit confused... not many times people will leave money in an account - let's say I buy a condo and sell it in 2 years? I assume i can transfer back?

If you transfer in say the equivalent of 5 million baht, buy a condo, then live in it for two years and then sell the condo for 5 million baht, you will be able to transfer out of the country the amount that appears on the blue receipt from the Land Office. If someone has done a deal with the Land Office to reduce the amount of tax paid (not necessarily the seller) and the receipt is for only three million baht then you will have to find an alternate way to transfer the remaining two million - been there and done that and it's a pain but not hugely difficult.

Thanks - this is what I meant... transfer in 5 mill buy a condo - 2 year sell and transfer out - the tax thing is going to catch me out as I had not considered the problems when the seller asked 'let's keep the tax down' now I will have the problem you describe

Don't panic, although I must confess I did when it happened to me so you can be forgiven for being a little nervous at first. In my case I had no direct input or control over the discussions with the Land Office (LO) over the reported value of the sale and simply paid the bill that was presented to me and was pleased it was so low. When I queried the sales price as reported I was told by the agent that was the price that is recorded by the LO and as long as each new sale of the same unit reports a slightly higher selling price than the previous time, everything is fine.

Problems started when I went to the bank to deposit the cheque and then wire transfer the money abroad and that was when the significance of the blue form emerged. In my case I sold for 6.2 mill. but the blue form only showed 2.3 mill and that was the amount I was allowed to transfer out, the rest had to stay in Thailand. But no big deal, over the next few weeks I bought a series of cashiers cheques from Bangkok Bank, each drawn on Bangkok Bank London and when I had enough I simply couriered (about USD 20) them to my bank in London for deposit into my UK bank account. The maximum value of each cheque cannot exceed USD 20,000 or its equivalent otherwise the bank starts to ask questions but under that amount it's all very straight forward. The two advantages of that approach were that the deposited cheques cleared in three days because they were drawn on a UK resident bank and secondly the cost of buying the cheques uses the same exchange rate as a wire transfer hence it's favourable - get the timing right and you may also make some money on the exchange rate too! Good luck.

[ChiangMaiFun]

Bit confused... not many times people will leave money in an account - let's say I buy a condo and sell it in 2 years? I assume i can transfer back?

If you transfer in say the equivalent of 5 million baht, buy a condo, then live in it for two years and then sell the condo for 5 million baht, you will be able to transfer out of the country the amount that appears on the blue receipt from the Land Office. If someone has done a deal with the Land Office to reduce the amount of tax paid (not necessarily the seller) and the receipt is for only three million baht then you will have to find an alternate way to transfer the remaining two million - been there and done that and it's a pain but not hugely difficult.

Thanks - this is what I meant... transfer in 5 mill buy a condo - 2 year sell and transfer out - the tax thing is going to catch me out as I had not considered the problems when the seller asked 'let's keep the tax down' now I will have the problem you describe

Don't panic, although I must confess I did when it happened to me so you can be forgiven for being a little nervous at first. In my case I had no direct input or control over the discussions with the Land Office (LO) over the reported value of the sale and simply paid the bill that was presented to me and was pleased it was so low. When I queried the sales price as reported I was told by the agent that was the price that is recorded by the LO and as long as each new sale of the same unit reports a slightly higher selling price than the previous time, everything is fine.

Problems started when I went to the bank to deposit the cheque and then wire transfer the money abroad and that was when the significance of the blue form emerged. In my case I sold for 6.2 mill. but the blue form only showed 2.3 mill and that was the amount I was allowed to transfer out, the rest had to stay in Thailand. But no big deal, over the next few weeks I bought a series of cashiers cheques from Bangkok Bank, each drawn on Bangkok Bank London and when I had enough I simply couriered (about USD 20) them to my bank in London for deposit into my UK bank account. The maximum value of each cheque cannot exceed USD 20,000 or its equivalent otherwise the bank starts to ask questions but under that amount it's all very straight forward. The two advantages of that approach were that the deposited cheques cleared in three days because they were drawn on a UK resident bank and secondly the cost of buying the cheques uses the same exchange rate as a wire transfer hence it's favourable - get the timing right and you may also make some money on the exchange rate too! Good luck.

Thanks for the reply... I'll do the same... but at least you actually had the form! alas I do not

[AbeSurd]

You will not be able to trqansfer THB out of Thailand.

The Thais convert it to the foreign currency before it leaves the shores. Believe me, I have tried and failed.

First all, thank you for staying on topic.Elsewhere this thread seems to have been hijacked to discuss condo purchase. Mai bpen rai!

12DrinkMore, I'm sure you're correct but could I ask what banks you have tried this with?

When I made my query the assistant at Bangkok Bank initially took the approach you indicate - all she seemed to be used to was BB converting baht to, say, sterling - and then sending it on its way to a UK bank.

However when I pressed the point she phoned head office and I spoke to a woman there who told me they can send baht. However BB will charge what they call a 'commission in lieu' (if I understood her English correctly). The rate is 0.25 percent - with a minimum charge of 300 baht. In addition the 400 baht flat fee I talked about before would also apply.

But as I was making a query this is all theoretical. As you say, if and when I actually do transfer money they may not be prepared to do it this way.

[chiang mai]

You will not be able to trqansfer THB out of Thailand.

The Thais convert it to the foreign currency before it leaves the shores. Believe me, I have tried and failed.

First all, thank you for staying on topic.Elsewhere this thread seems to have been hijacked to discuss condo purchase. Mai bpen rai!

12DrinkMore, I'm sure you're correct but could I ask what banks you have tried this with?

When I made my query the assistant at Bangkok Bank initially took the approach you indicate - all she seemed to be used to was BB converting baht to, say, sterling - and then sending it on its way to a UK bank.

However when I pressed the point she phoned head office and I spoke to a woman there who told me they can send baht. However BB will charge what they call a 'commission in lieu' (if I understood her English correctly). The rate is 0.25 percent - with a minimum charge of 300 baht. In addition the 400 baht flat fee I talked about before would also apply.

But as I was making a query this is all theoretical. As you say, if and when I actually do transfer money they may not be prepared to do it this way.

It's really not a question of hijack but rather it's all a part of the same picture. BOT rules state that foreigners cannot take more than Baht 50,000 out of the country so the idea of taking Baht to another country is simply not a starter. But what you can do is take other currencies out and if you so wish, buy Baht and bank it accordingly, Hong Kong and Singapore springs to mind in this respect. The other point that is worth mentioning on this subject is that of exchange rates. If you do manage to export a large quantity of THB to another country, what then? Hold it, exchange it, if you do the latter you will almost certainly lose money on the exchange overseas since the rates/margins tend to be very unfriendly. If you were to make a THB currency exchange in Thailand today and the spot rate is say 53.40 against Sterling, you might just get 53. Try the same transaction in say the UK and the conversion rate will be along the lines of 60 Baht per Pound, a huge loss by comparison! So, perhaps you can now see the context in which the condo purchase/sale stories apply, simply, if we were able to take the Baht and run we might do that, but we can't.

Edited December 28, 2009 by chiang mai

[12DrinkMore]

You will not be able to trqansfer THB out of Thailand.

The Thais convert it to the foreign currency before it leaves the shores. Believe me, I have tried and failed.

First all, thank you for staying on topic.Elsewhere this thread seems to have been hijacked to discuss condo purchase. Mai bpen rai!

12DrinkMore, I'm sure you're correct but could I ask what banks you have tried this with?

I tried the SCB, the Bangkok Bank and the Ayudhaya Bank.

A couple of years ago there was a differential between the onshore exchange rate and the offshore rate.

My scheme was to bring in foreign currency and exchange it to Baht here and then return it as Baht and exchange it back to foreign currency abroad. I reckoned I could make a single figure percentage on the deal. Multiplied by repeating the same thing over and over again, I was hoping to make a huge annualised profit.

Didn't work because none of the banks could send the Bahts out of the country. BOT rules, the Bahts have to be exchange in Thailand.

I even sat with one manager in front of her computer as she tried to issue the transaction. All went great until the final "do it" confirmation. Up popped the error message "Cannot send Bahts out of the country". A phone call to head office and it was confirmed, sorry no Bahts can be sent.

And now the onshore and offshore rates have converged again. So maybe it is possible again?

Pity really, I was hoping to make a real killing on that.

Edited December 28, 2009 by 12DrinkMore

[ChiangMaiFun]

You will not be able to trqansfer THB out of Thailand.

The Thais convert it to the foreign currency before it leaves the shores. Believe me, I have tried and failed.

First all, thank you for staying on topic.Elsewhere this thread seems to have been hijacked to discuss condo purchase. Mai bpen rai!

12DrinkMore, I'm sure you're correct but could I ask what banks you have tried this with?

When I made my query the assistant at Bangkok Bank initially took the approach you indicate - all she seemed to be used to was BB converting baht to, say, sterling - and then sending it on its way to a UK bank.

However when I pressed the point she phoned head office and I spoke to a woman there who told me they can send baht. However BB will charge what they call a 'commission in lieu' (if I understood her English correctly). The rate is 0.25 percent - with a minimum charge of 300 baht. In addition the 400 baht flat fee I talked about before would also apply.

But as I was making a query this is all theoretical. As you say, if and when I actually do transfer money they may not be prepared to do it this way.

You just dont get it - nothing todo with condo purchase but EVEYTHING to do with transferring money - youshould re-read the answers - IF one purchases a condo and IF one sells- HOW does one get the money out of Thailand - pretty ON TOPIC I'd say!!! nothing to do with purchasing condos... EVERYTHING to do with transferring money out... not sure you have really read the threads understood the answers

[AbeSurd]

You just dont get it - nothing todo with condo purchase but EVEYTHING to do with transferring money - youshould re-read the answers - IF one purchases a condo and IF one sells- HOW does one get the money out of Thailand - pretty ON TOPIC I'd say!!! nothing to do with purchasing condos... EVERYTHING to do with transferring money out... not sure you have really read the threads understood the answers

Ha ha. With all due respect, you may have noticed I started this thread, so it's pretty rich of you to be telling me what it's about!

Please re-read the title of the thread and my original post.

This thread is largely about a very simple scenario - transferring money from a foreign bank into a Thai bank AND THEN LETTING THE MONEY (OR MOST OF IT) SIT THERE. And then trying to wire the money back to where it came from.

If you want to talk about transferring money for condo purchases and condo sales, please start (yet) another thread.

Cheers.

[AbeSurd]

It's really not a question of hijack but rather it's all a part of the same picture.

Sorry, but you are muddying and complicating my original picture with your scenarios of using money for purchases and sales in Thailand, and then sending the money to accounts in HK and Singapore. Please read the thread title and my original post. I'm trying to keep it simple!

BOT rules state that foreigners cannot take more than Baht 50,000 out of the country so the idea of taking Baht to another country is simply not a starter.

I think you're talking here about taking CASH out of Thailand in your pocket or suitcase? So you may be right - I don't know, it's not a method of transfer I'm interested in. I'm talking about wiring money. And I repeat: BB say I can wire unlimited amounts - so long as BB can see that all the money originated from abroad. And as far I know that means wiring money in baht or sterling.

Try the same transaction in say the UK and the conversion rate will be along the lines of 60 Baht per Pound, a huge loss by comparison!

Please see my earlier post - a few days ago Lloyds TSB quoted me a rate of 55 baht to the pound to convert. But you're right. My calculations indicate that right now I'd probably be quite a lot better off wiring my baht back from Thailand to the UK as sterling.

[chiang mai]

It's really not a question of hijack but rather it's all a part of the same picture.

Sorry, but you are muddying and complicating my original picture with your scenarios of using money for purchases and sales in Thailand, and then sending the money to accounts in HK and Singapore. Please read the thread title and my original post. I'm trying to keep it simple!

BOT rules state that foreigners cannot take more than Baht 50,000 out of the country so the idea of taking Baht to another country is simply not a starter.

I think you're talking here about taking CASH out of Thailand in your pocket or suitcase? So you may be right - I don't know, it's not a method of transfer I'm interested in. I'm talking about wiring money. And I repeat: BB say I can wire unlimited amounts - so long as BB can see that all the money originated from abroad. And as far I know that means wiring money in baht or sterling.

Try the same transaction in say the UK and the conversion rate will be along the lines of 60 Baht per Pound, a huge loss by comparison!

Please see my earlier post - a few days ago Lloyds TSB quoted me a rate of 55 baht to the pound to convert. But you're right. My calculations indicate that right now I'd probably be quite a lot better off wiring my baht back from Thailand to the UK as sterling.

I've told you what the Central Bank regulations are on the export of THB by foreigners, it's your choice not to believe me, up to you as the Thai's are prone to say! But honestly, I do think that you don't really understand all of this so do be careful before you try to put any of this hypothetical scenario into practise. And finally, it doesn't matter what you think Lloyds/TSB told you regarding the exchange rate on GBP/THB it's incorrect. GBP/THB has traded between 53.3 and 55.4 during December and there's just no way that any UK bank will convert to GBP at or near to the spot rate - perhaps if you were to factor in the commission charge, the receiving charge and the wire costs you would arrive at a true exchange rate.

Edited December 28, 2009 by chiang mai

[ChiangMaiFun]

You just dont get it - nothing todo with condo purchase but EVEYTHING to do with transferring money - youshould re-read the answers - IF one purchases a condo and IF one sells- HOW does one get the money out of Thailand - pretty ON TOPIC I'd say!!! nothing to do with purchasing condos... EVERYTHING to do with transferring money out... not sure you have really read the threads understood the answers

Ha ha. With all due respect, you may have noticed I started this thread, so it's pretty rich of you to be telling me what it's about!

Please re-read the title of the thread and my original post.

This thread is largely about a very simple scenario - transferring money from a foreign bank into a Thai bank AND THEN LETTING THE MONEY (OR MOST OF IT) SIT THERE. And then trying to wire the money back to where it came from.

If you want to talk about transferring money for condo purchases and condo sales, please start (yet) another thread.

Cheers.

here we go... I wired money from Nat West - I used it for a condo - I sold condo - I put back into Thai bank - I want to wire it back into Nat West - you're splitting hairs.

As a member with 17 posts to his name I guess I should be generous - people are trying to help you and you are not listening and being Bolshy about it 'being your thread' - my posts are relevant about the subject matter but as youare the BOSS of the thread I won't contribute further tothis particular subject - have a nice day

[AbeSurd]

I've told you what the Central Bank regulations are on the export of THB by foreigners, it's your choice not to believe me, up to you as the Thai's are prone to say!

Okay, fine, so when you talked about a 50,000 baht limit you weren't just talking about taking cash out of Thailand in your pocket, you were also talking about wiring. Sorry, it just wasn't clear from your wording. Thanks, this is good solid info. When I'm next in BB I'll see if I can get them to confirm there's a 50,000 baht limit. To be fair to BB, when I was talking to them on the first occasion and they were telling me I could wire back to the UK an unlimited amount (subject to all the money never having moved out of BB) it hadn't occurred to me that they were assuming they would be converting the baht back to sterling before wiring it. And on the second occasion when I spoke to the head office woman specifically about wiring baht, I didnt ask her if there was a limit. So I'm not saying I don't believe you!

But honestly, I do think that you don't really understand all of this so do be careful before you try to put any of this hypothetical scenario into practise.

Well, yes - you're exactly right. And I won't start to fully understand this until I actually start doing it. That's why all I'm doing at the moment on this thread is report what I'm being told by the banks at either end - so that you wiser ones on TV can tell me when they're speaking with forked tongues!

At this point can I ask you specifically: do you agree that if BB convert my baht back to sterling immediately prior to wiring, then I can indeed wire out an umlimited amount (subject to all the money never having moved out of BB) back to my UK bank?

And finally, it doesn't matter what you think Lloyds/TSB told you regarding the exchange rate on GBP/THB it's incorrect. GBP/THB has traded between 53.3 and 55.4 during December and there's just no way that any UK bank will convert to GBP at or near to the spot rate - perhaps if you were to factor in the commission charge, the receiving charge and the wire costs you would arrive at a true exchange rate.

I KNOW what Lloyds told me and I reported it verbatim above - but I ain't saying what I was told is correct!:

Me: "So I can send you a million baht and you'll convert it to £18,174 and the only charge will be £7?"

She: "Yes."

She and I both did the calculation of £18,174 for 1m baht at 55.023. And she also pointed out that the exchange figure of 55.023 was only true for the time she was speaking to me - by the time Lloyds actually received the money the rate would almost certainly have changed.

Also what I didn't do is ask her what the charges would be if I sent sterling. Will do that soon. And double-check that exchange rate!

Other than that, what other charges should I be asking about?

Thanks for your help with all this.

[chiang mai]

I've told you what the Central Bank regulations are on the export of THB by foreigners, it's your choice not to believe me, up to you as the Thai's are prone to say!

Okay, fine, so when you talked about a 50,000 baht limit you weren't just talking about taking cash out of Thailand in your pocket, you were also talking about wiring. Sorry, it just wasn't clear from your wording. Thanks, this is good solid info. When I'm next in BB I'll see if I can get them to confirm there's a 50,000 baht limit. To be fair to BB, when I was talking to them on the first occasion and they were telling me I could wire back to the UK an unlimited amount (subject to all the money never having moved out of BB) it hadn't occurred to me that they were assuming they would be converting the baht back to sterling before wiring it. And on the second occasion when I spoke to the head office woman specifically about wiring baht, I didnt ask her if there was a limit. So I'm not saying I don't believe you!

But honestly, I do think that you don't really understand all of this so do be careful before you try to put any of this hypothetical scenario into practise.

Well, yes - you're exactly right. And I won't start to fully understand this until I actually start doing it. That's why all I'm doing at the moment on this thread is report what I'm being told by the banks at either end - so that you wiser ones on TV can tell me when they're speaking with forked tongues!

At this point can I ask you specifically: do you agree that if BB convert my baht back to sterling immediately prior to wiring, then I can indeed wire out an umlimited amount (subject to all the money never having moved out of BB) back to my UK bank?

And finally, it doesn't matter what you think Lloyds/TSB told you regarding the exchange rate on GBP/THB it's incorrect. GBP/THB has traded between 53.3 and 55.4 during December and there's just no way that any UK bank will convert to GBP at or near to the spot rate - perhaps if you were to factor in the commission charge, the receiving charge and the wire costs you would arrive at a true exchange rate.

I KNOW what Lloyds told me and I reported it verbatim above - but I ain't saying what I was told is correct!:

Me: "So I can send you a million baht and you'll convert it to £18,174 and the only charge will be £7?"

She: "Yes."

She and I both did the calculation of £18,174 for 1m baht at 55.023. And she also pointed out that the exchange figure of 55.023 was only true for the time she was speaking to me - by the time Lloyds actually received the money the rate would almost certainly have changed.

Also what I didn't do is ask her what the charges would be if I sent sterling. Will do that soon. And double-check that exchange rate!

Other than that, what other charges should I be asking about?

Thanks for your help with all this.

This is my last post on this thread.

Baht is Baht regardless of whether it's in note form that you can see or in electronic form that you can only imagine, the same rules apply but please, go ahead and verify this fact with BOT.

What Lloyds told you is not correct, Lloyds UK (or any other UK bank) doesn't really want to buy Baht, why would they.

Charges - see my previous post.

End.

[AbeSurd]

This is my last post on this thread.

Baht is Baht regardless of whether it's in note form that you can see or in electronic form that you can only imagine, the same rules apply but please, go ahead and verify this fact with BOT.

What Lloyds told you is not correct, Lloyds UK (or any other UK bank) doesn't really want to buy Baht, why would they.

Charges - see my previous post.

End.

Well I'm a bit surprised by what I detect here as your huffy tone. Admittedly this is a rather dry area of banking I suppose! But if I bring more money over here into Thailand I want to know what I might be able to do about getting it back to the UK should the need arise. I cannot be alone among TV board members in finding this an area of concern/interest.

I know member Chiangmai is much more experienced in financial matters than myself, over many months I've read with interest his posts on other threads. However I cannot get Bangkok Bank to confirm what he says. This afternoon I again went round to BB here in Pattaya. I asked them if there was any limit on the amount of baht I could wire back to my UK account as baht. They said "no limit" - just so long as, I repeat and repeat, they can see clearly that the money came directly from my UK bank into BB and had stayed in BB ever since. I told them someone I knew said foreigners could not send more than 50,000 baht out of Thailand and they didn't know what I was talking about.

Caveat, caveat. As I type this I am bearing in mind what 12DrinkMore posted about when he came to actually try and wire baht out, the Thai bank system itself stopped him at the final moment.Until I try and do it I guess I will never know.

And even if I can't send my baht back as baht, it seems I can definitely send it back as sterling. I'm happy to send it back as sterling if need be. So I'm re-assured by all that.

This afternoon I also went into Siam Commercial where I also have accounts. Reassuringly the story there was substantially the same - with one difference. It seems their system is not as flexible as BB's. Their system would AUTOMATICALLY convert my baht to sterling before sending it. She showed me it on screen.

As for what Chiangmai says about Lloyds TSB, I cannot get Lloyds TSB to confirm this either. I called them again just now. Spoke to a different woman there. They will accept sterling or baht from my Thai bank. Their IMM (incoming money movement) charge is a flat £7 either way I do it. I asked her if i send baht, what would be the exchange rate? At the time of my phone call the applicable Lloyds exchange rate was 52.254.

I hope this information is useful to someone out there in TV land!

Cheers.

Edited December 29, 2009 by AbeSurd

[AbeSurd]

Baht is Baht regardless of whether it's in note form that you can see or in electronic form that you can only imagine, the same rules apply but please, go ahead and verify this fact with BOT.

I found this on the BOT website:

"A person travelling to Thailand's bordering countries including Vietnam is allowed to take out Thai Baht up to 500,000 Baht and to other countries up to 50,000 Baht respectively without authorization."

If this is the bit of BOT legislation you're referring to then it reads to me like a restriction on people travelling with money on their person and not a restriction on inter bank transactions. But even if you take it to refer to inter bank transactions, it allows for larger amounts IF they have been authorized. Institutions like Bangkok Bank may be able to authorise larger amounts if they can see the money originated abroad in the manner I have described previously.

Here's the link. I don't know if TV will allow it be posted however:

http://www.bot.or.th/English/ForeignExchan...ControlLaw.aspx

[chiang mai]

I really don't understand at all where you're coming from with all of this, what you really want to know and what you don't understand so let's go back to basics:

You can transfer funds into Thailand from overseas in whichever currency you wish and you have the choice of depositing the funds into a Thai bank account in the currency of your choice, providing there is a receiving account that is denominated in that currency - alternatively you can convert the funds into another currency either at the sending or the receiving end. Outgoing funds from Thailand follow the same set of rules except you cannot send Thai Baht as Thai Baht.

So for example, you tell your UK bank that you want to send £1,000 to a bank in Thailand and you want the funds to be received in Thailand as GBP. For that to happen you need to open a GBP account in Thailand which is fairly straight forward but you will need to tell both the UK and Thai banks the purpose of the transfer, ie why are you sending the money, for what reason.

As an alternative to the above you can instruct your UK bank to convert your £1,000 into Baht and send it to Thailand in which case you will need a Thai Baht account in Thailand - this approach is not recommended since the UK bank will rape you on the exchange rates!

On the return trip you can send your £1,000 in Thailand back to the UK bank (in Sterling) subject to BOT transfer rules, reason for the transfer is needed and transaction limits are in place which cannot be exceeded without BOT approval.

BOT places a per transaction limit of USD 20,000 (or it's foreign currency equivalent) for funds transfers, below that level the transfer can be made simply and easily. Above that limit requires an explanation - for nationals there is a set of guidelines that govern the circumstances under which they can make foreign transfers. For foreigners the guidelines include repatriating funds that were proven to have been brought into the country and/or earnings where the account holder has a Thai work permit - note, the banks in Thailand act as the BOT agent to enforce these rules.

Cash: foreigners may carry up to Baht 50,000 out of the country, slightly different rules MAY apply where the cash is taken to ASEAN countries.

What you cannot do is to tell your Thai bank to wire transfer Thai Baht to the UK because of the BOT regulations you have now seen. Once again, Thai Baht is Thai Baht, regardless of the form it takes. An overseas transfer is an overseas transfer regardless of destination and BOT rules apply (slightly different rules for nationals versus foreigners and also slightly different if transfer is made within ASEAN).

[AbeSurd]

I really don't understand at all where you're coming from with all of this, what you really want to know and what you don't understand so let's go back to basics:

First of all, welcome back. Thank you for taking some more time with my 'issue'.

Eh, it's funny how we can painstakingly sit at a computer keyboard, spend many minutes, even hours, at it, carefully composing our post - and yet other people read it and .. don't seem to fully understand!

No need to go back to basics. I understand IN THEORY all I need to know at this point. Of course in the future the regulations may all change!

BOT places a per transaction limit of USD 20,000 (or it's foreign currency equivalent) for funds transfers, below that level the transfer can be made simply and easily. Above that limit requires an explanation - for nationals there is a set of guidelines that govern the circumstances under which they can make foreign transfers. For foreigners the guidelines include repatriating funds that were proven to have been brought into the country and/or earnings where the account holder has a Thai work permit - note, the banks in Thailand act as the BOT agent to enforce these rules.

"Above that limit requires an explanation ... For foreigners the guidelines include repatriating funds that were proven to have been brought into the country"

EXACTLY! I now know this from my own investigations but thank you for finally confirming this.

What you cannot do is to tell your Thai bank to wire transfer Thai Baht to the UK because of the BOT regulations you have now seen. Once again, Thai Baht is Thai Baht, regardless of the form it takes. An overseas transfer is an overseas transfer regardless of destination and BOT rules apply (slightly different rules for nationals versus foreigners and also slightly different if transfer is made within ASEAN).

As you already know, Bangkok Bank are telling me, a foreigner, I can indeed tell them to repatriate my funds to my UK bank in baht. And, on the contrary, the BOT info I "have now seen" just talks about restrictions on taking baht out of Thailand on your person while 'travelling'. Please see the link to the BOT website and the quote I provided in a recent post.

If you can provide a link to BOT info that indicates something other I will read it with great interest!

But, you know, whatever! As I said before, in an emergency I don't really care whether I repatriate my money as baht or sterling. "I'm not interested in the return ON my capital, I'm just interested in the return OF my capital" (Or most of it!)

Cheers.

[AbeSurd]

And now the onshore and offshore rates have converged again. So maybe it is possible again?

Indeed. After debating on this thread at some length with chiang mai, I am wondering if this is the reason why Bangkok Bank are telling me they will repatriate my money in baht?

[chiang mai]

And now the onshore and offshore rates have converged again. So maybe it is possible again?

Indeed. After debating on this thread at some length with chiang mai, I am wondering if this is the reason why Bangkok Bank are telling me they will repatriate my money in baht?

No, the onshore/offshore rates converged a long time ago albeit rate competitive advantage remains by some banks and Thai banks do work on significantly lower exchange rate margins than western banks.