Thai Government Alleged Plan To Kill Thaksin

[CaptainNemo]

we're trying to discourage.

You're a voting member of the Thai public or a member of the Democrat Party or higher authority? If not, I suggest you are not one of the "we're" as foreigners are specifically disallowed from taking an active role in Thai politics.

In that case you are just another guest in the country who objects to one political party or it's members highlighting something about the other party that you don't agree with. Hardly makes you a member of the "we're".

Of course it's totally ridiculous to think that the Democrats might come up with the idea to assassinate Thaksin-- especially seeing he seems to have gazumped them every step of the way.

Thaksin's Chinese - he's about as Thai as most of the members of this forum. The very idea he should front the Thai equivalent of the BNP and seek to replace Thai institutions with Chinese ones practically makes it a duty for all farangs to meddle to confound his offensive manipulation and tree climbing. Best future for Thailand is a government of "look-khreung" who can bring some more progressive western values to the place and save if from the grasping paws of Chinese control.

As for your other point, I agree... this sort of article is bound to do wonders for newspaper sales and the "Thaivisa" hitcount, and all those juicy ad links.

[CaptainNemo]

a final public warning. Please refer to people by their REAL names not some made up or insulting nick name that you have decided on.

Example: Abhisit, Thaksin are acceptable.

Cheers, cause the next one is just going to get deleted without any notice.

What a great way to suck the soul out of a forum... don't you know what the internet is for? It's not for the safe generation of Google advert revenue... it's a place for free expression that is usually unavailable in traditional media.

I think your attitude is what is unacceptable (and don't bother retorting with a lecture, I won't read it).

Edited December 26, 2009 by CaptainNemo

[caf]

Also on there are the details of how the Puea Thai Party Leader in Cambodia is still calling the shots as he has selected who the Party will endorse in an upcoming by-election on Jan. 3 in Maha Sarakham which is being held after the previous Puea Thai Party winner was found guilty of bribery. There had been quite of bit of squabbling within the Party as to who would be chosen, but that has now been settled after consultation with the Party Leader.

Perhaps wait for a free press in Thailand when you will be able to read both sides of a story, and comments from both parties, before believing obvious propaganda

You obviously know more, so tell us.

You joined in 2005 and have over 5000 posts. Your posts suggest you know Thailand very well.

[Publicus]

Also on there are the details of how the Puea Thai Party Leader in Cambodia is still calling the shots as he has selected who the Party will endorse in an upcoming by-election on Jan. 3 in Maha Sarakham which is being held after the previous Puea Thai Party winner was found guilty of bribery. There had been quite of bit of squabbling within the Party as to who would be chosen, but that has now been settled after consultation with the Party Leader.

Perhaps wait for a free press in Thailand when you will be able to read both sides of a story, and comments from both parties, before believing obvious propaganda

You obviously know more, so tell us.

You joined in 2005 and have over 5000 posts. Your posts suggest you know Thailand very well.

Thailand has often struggled against press/media censorship but had been making substantial long term progress until TRT and Thaksin. As noted by Pasuk/Baker and others, Thaksin and his gang started putting the screws to the press/media in more subtle ways such as advertising squeezes affecting revenue in addition to some of the usual and traditional heavy handed tactics such as with iTV. 

Those who don't like the backlash and payback now that Thaksin's down and out can start their own news organizations. Oh yeh, that's right, you don't have to start your own propaganda organs - you always can read the Thaksin Time look-alike zine, or watch Red TV, or read even the existing papers which do report on Thaksin's every move. You can watch his videocast hookups in which he speaks directly to you from his big Thai heart, without any filters whatsoever.

Or you can ignore all of the pro Thaksin media to simply come to TV and winge. 

[LaoPo]

Thailand has often struggled against press/media censorship but had been making substantial long term progress until TRT and Thaksin. As noted by Pasuk/Baker and others, Thaksin and his gang started putting the screws to the press/media in more subtle ways such as advertising squeezes affecting revenue in addition to some of the usual and traditional heavy handed tactics such as with iTV. 

Those who don't like the backlash and payback now that Thaksin's down and out can start their own news organizations. Oh yeh, that's right, you don't have to start your own propaganda organs - you always can read the Thaksin Time look-alike zine, or watch Red TV, or read even the existing papers which do report on Thaksin's every move. You can watch his videocast hookups in which he speaks directly to you from his big Thai heart, without any filters whatsoever.

Or you can ignore all of the pro Thaksin media to simply come to TV and winge. 

You're view is incorrect!

Thailand's censorship/press freedom is even worsening since 2006 Publicus!

PRESS FREEDOM FROM: REPORTERS WITHOUT BORDERS - FOR PRESS FREEDOM

2009: Thailand is on place # 130

2008: Thailand was on place # 124

2007: Thailand was on place # 135

2006: Thailand was on place # 122

2005: Thailand was on place # 107

2004: Thailand was on place # 59

2003: Thailand was on place # 82

2002: Thailand was on place # 66

For who's having a short memory: the former PM was ousted in the coup on Tuesday September 16th, 2006.

So, where's the improving press freedom ?

In 2009 the so called press freedom has worsened to double, from 66 in 2002 to 130 in 2009.

***************************************************************************

INTERNET

Thailand

As the end of xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx self censored because of LM.

At the start of January 2009, the information and communications minister announced that the government was going to invest 500 million baht (1.1 million euros) to put in place a national filtering system to block websites hosted abroad that could damage the xxxxxxxxx. Since December 2008, the ministry has decided to step up the fight against the crime of lese majeste online. More than 4,000 websites have been blocked since the start of 2009. However, official sources say that only 4,800 pages have been blocked for this reason since March 2008.

Under the Cyber Crime Act, adopted in 2007, police can seize computer equipment of people suspected of sending message containing insulting or pornographic content. The crime of lese-majeste did not appear in this law.

But at the start of 2009, an amendment was added providing for prison sentences for anyone suspected of the crime of lese-majeste so as to increase sentences in cases of “defamation”, “insult” or “threat to the monarchy”. Almost a score of people are currently facing charges of this crime because of their articles posted online.

Internet user Suwicha Thakor was arrested on 14 January 2009 by the Department of Special Investigation (DSI), while he was visiting friends in the country.

The IP address of his computer indicated that his home corresponded to the place from which comments about the king and his entourage had been posted. He is being held at the Klong Prem prison, even though he denies charges of the “crime of lese-majeste” against him. Two bail applications have been denied.

Blogger Praya Pichai spent two weeks in custody, facing proceedings under Article 14 for “defamation” and “damaging national security” at the end of August 2007 for making comments considered “critical of the xxxxxxx” in an article posted on his blog (http://www.propaganda.forumotion.com/). The Thai authorities dropped charges against him for lack of proof. However, Praya Pichai has been put under surveillance for ten years and faces prison if he publishes any further comments about the monarchy.

The crime of lese-majese is punishable by 3 to 15 years in prison and any Thai citizen can ask for the opening of an investigation if he suspects one of his fellow citizens to be guilty of it.

source:

http://www.rsf.org/en-zone2-Asia.html

LaoPo

[LaoPo]

Thailand has often struggled against press/media censorship but had been making substantial long term progress until TRT and Thaksin. As noted by Pasuk/Baker and others, Thaksin and his gang started putting the screws to the press/media in more subtle ways such as advertising squeezes affecting revenue in addition to some of the usual and traditional heavy handed tactics such as with iTV. 

Those who don't like the backlash and payback now that Thaksin's down and out can start their own news organizations. Oh yeh, that's right, you don't have to start your own propaganda organs - you always can read the Thaksin Time look-alike zine, or watch Red TV, or read even the existing papers which do report on Thaksin's every move. You can watch his videocast hookups in which he speaks directly to you from his big Thai heart, without any filters whatsoever.

Or you can ignore all of the pro Thaksin media to simply come to TV and winge. 

You're view is incorrect!

Thailand's censorship/press freedom is even worsening since 2006 Publicus!

PRESS FREEDOM FROM: REPORTERS WITHOUT BORDERS - FOR PRESS FREEDOM

2009: Thailand is on place # 130

2008: Thailand was on place # 124

2007: Thailand was on place # 135

2006: Thailand was on place # 122

2005: Thailand was on place # 107

2004: Thailand was on place # 59

2003: Thailand was on place # 82

2002: Thailand was on place # 66

For who's having a short memory: the former PM was ousted in the coup on Tuesday September 16th, 2006.

So, where's the improving press freedom ?

In 2009 the so called press freedom has worsened to double, from 66 in 2002 to 130 in 2009.

***************************************************************************

INTERNET

Thailand

As the end of xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx self censored because of LM danger.

At the start of January 2009, the information and communications minister announced that the government was going to invest 500 million baht (1.1 million euros) to put in place a national filtering system to block websites hosted abroad that could damage the xxxxxxxxxxx(self censored; same reason). Since December 2008, the ministry has decided to step up the fight against the crime of lese majeste online. More than 4,000 websites have been blocked since the start of 2009. However, official sources say that only 4,800 pages have been blocked for this reason since March 2008.

Under the Cyber Crime Act, adopted in 2007, police can seize computer equipment of people suspected of sending message containing insulting or pornographic content. The crime of lese-majeste did not appear in this law.

But at the start of 2009, an amendment was added providing for prison sentences for anyone suspected of the crime of lese-majeste so as to increase sentences in cases of “defamation”, “insult” or “threat to the monarchy”. Almost a score of people are currently facing charges of this crime because of their articles posted online.

Internet user Suwicha Thakor was arrested on 14 January 2009 by the Department of Special Investigation (DSI), while he was visiting friends in the country.

The IP address of his computer indicated that his home corresponded to the place from which comments about the king and his entourage had been posted. He is being held at the Klong Prem prison, even though he denies charges of the “crime of lese-majeste” against him. Two bail applications have been denied.

Blogger Praya Pichai spent two weeks in custody, facing proceedings under Article 14 for “defamation” and “damaging national security” at the end of August 2007 for making comments considered “critical of the xxxxxxx; self censored)” in an article posted on his blog (http://www.propaganda.forumotion.com/). The Thai authorities dropped charges against him for lack of proof. However, Praya Pichai has been put under surveillance for ten years and faces prison if he publishes any further comments about the monarchy.

The crime of lese-majese is punishable by 3 to 15 years in prison and any Thai citizen can ask for the opening of an investigation if he suspects one of his fellow citizens to be guilty of it.

source:

http://www.rsf.org/en-zone2-Asia.html

LaoPo

[Publicus]

Thailand has often struggled against press/media censorship but had been making substantial long term progress until TRT and Thaksin. As noted by Pasuk/Baker and others, Thaksin and his gang started putting the screws to the press/media in more subtle ways such as advertising squeezes affecting revenue in addition to some of the usual and traditional heavy handed tactics such as with iTV. 

Those who don't like the backlash and payback now that Thaksin's down and out can start their own news organizations. Oh yeh, that's right, you don't have to start your own propaganda organs - you always can read the Thaksin Time look-alike zine, or watch Red TV, or read even the existing papers which do report on Thaksin's every move. You can watch his videocast hookups in which he speaks directly to you from his big Thai heart, without any filters whatsoever.

Or you can ignore all of the pro Thaksin media to simply come to TV and winge. 

You're view is incorrect!

Thailand's censorship/press freedom is even worsening since 2006 Publicus!

PRESS FREEDOM FROM: REPORTERS WITHOUT BORDERS - FOR PRESS FREEDOM

2009: Thailand is on place # 130

2008: Thailand was on place # 124

2007: Thailand was on place # 135

2006: Thailand was on place # 122

2005: Thailand was on place # 107

2004: Thailand was on place # 59

2003: Thailand was on place # 82

2002: Thailand was on place # 66

For who's having a short memory: the former PM was ousted in the coup on Tuesday September 16th, 2006.

So, where's the improving press freedom ?

In 2009 the so called press freedom has worsened to double, from 66 in 2002 to 130 in 2009.

***************************************************************************

INTERNET

Thailand

As the end of xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx self censored because of LM danger.

At the start of January 2009, the information and communications minister announced that the government was going to invest 500 million baht (1.1 million euros) to put in place a national filtering system to block websites hosted abroad that could damage the xxxxxxxxxxx(self censored; same reason). Since December 2008, the ministry has decided to step up the fight against the crime of lese majeste online. More than 4,000 websites have been blocked since the start of 2009. However, official sources say that only 4,800 pages have been blocked for this reason since March 2008.

Under the Cyber Crime Act, adopted in 2007, police can seize computer equipment of people suspected of sending message containing insulting or pornographic content. The crime of lese-majeste did not appear in this law.

But at the start of 2009, an amendment was added providing for prison sentences for anyone suspected of the crime of lese-majeste so as to increase sentences in cases of "defamation", "insult" or "threat to the monarchy". Almost a score of people are currently facing charges of this crime because of their articles posted online.

Internet user Suwicha Thakor was arrested on 14 January 2009 by the Department of Special Investigation (DSI), while he was visiting friends in the country.

The IP address of his computer indicated that his home corresponded to the place from which comments about the king and his entourage had been posted. He is being held at the Klong Prem prison, even though he denies charges of the "crime of lese-majeste" against him. Two bail applications have been denied.

Blogger Praya Pichai spent two weeks in custody, facing proceedings under Article 14 for "defamation" and "damaging national security" at the end of August 2007 for making comments considered "critical of the xxxxxxx; self censored)" in an article posted on his blog (http://www.propaganda.forumotion.com/). The Thai authorities dropped charges against him for lack of proof. However, Praya Pichai has been put under surveillance for ten years and faces prison if he publishes any further comments about the monarchy.

The crime of lese-majese is punishable by 3 to 15 years in prison and any Thai citizen can ask for the opening of an investigation if he suspects one of his fellow citizens to be guilty of it.

source:

http://www.rsf.org/en-zone2-Asia.html

LaoPo

Jez, you seem to think you're really on to something new, that you're hot on the trail of data that haven't been presented at the forum previously and numerous times.......I say, numerous times.

What's not stated with the barebones data are material reasons and analysis. To wit, with a graduate degree in journalism and a lifetime of experience in mass media, I invite you to consider that: 

*2005 was the year during the Thaksin rule the government radically accelerated its oppression and repression of what in the US we know as First Amendment freedoms such as freedom of press, assembly, speech, right to petition the government and other rights and freedoms of expression.

*2006 was the year of mass demonstrations against Thaksin which caused the Thaksin government to accelerate and intensify its campaign against press/media reporting and coverage of the anti-Thaksin rallies and against the rallies themselves, producing a documented negative impact and effect on freedom of expression in general.

*2007 was the year the military controlled the country...militaries of Third World countries are not known for advocacy or defence of freedom of expression, freedom of press/media, academic freedom and so on.

*2008 was the year almost in its entirety two Thaksin proxy governments controlled the country to surpress all opposition, criticisms, critiques and political opponents to include bodies of the government, perhaps most notably against the Privy Council.

*2009 has been the year during which even supporters of the current government (whether reluctant supporters or resigned ones) have criticized the LM laws and their application, questioned the extent of the application of the LM laws, and have objected to the censorship exercised in response to blatant and exploitative use of mass media and internet communications to scheme and plot against the government to the extent of overthrowing the government.  

Moreover, do you claim there haven't been at the least some real and actual, calculated and cruel assaults against the monarchy whether in cyberspace or by other means, such as direct statements made by extremist Thaksin supporters? You'd be in an unknown zone of space yourself if you were to try to deny that some such contempt of the institution has in fact occurred.

Your presentation of data with its accompanying particular text dangles out in the dark of space, absent the oxygen and other vital life elements that provide the living reality of press/media freedom and of other freedoms. It is absent the context of proper adherence to the rule of law and the reasonable and just application and enforcement of law. In other words, your presentation ignores abuses by all parties involved. 

   

Edited December 26, 2009 by Publicus

[LaoPo]

Jez, you seem to think you're really on to something new, that you're hot on the trail of data that haven't been presented at the forum previously and numerous times.......I say, numerous times.

No I don't think I'm onto something new.

You were claiming that press freedom was declining in the period since the former PM came to power and was ended by the coup in 2006. The numbers provided by Reporters Without Borders say something different.

Well, since the man was removed by the coup, press freedom didn't really IMPROVE, did it ? Au contraire I would say.

Press Freedom it decreased dramatically in the years after Thaksin was removed, especially since the low 66 in 2002 and even lower in 2004 with 59 on the world scale.

2009: Thailand is on place # 130

2008: Thailand was on place # 124

2007: Thailand was on place # 135

I was referring to your sentence about press freedom and what do you give me? A lecture in what happened in all those years

Again: I was talking about the Freedom of Press in Thailand and I think that amongst that press the English press in Thailand is also extremely biased AND gagged since September 2006.

I leave it with that, realizing that I think that Thailand is at a shameful place being # 130 on the list of 175 countries when it comes to the freedom of press.

Not so far away from China at place # 168

LaoPo

[Publicus]

Jez, you seem to think you're really on to something new, that you're hot on the trail of data that haven't been presented at the forum previously and numerous times.......I say, numerous times.

No I don't think I'm onto something new.

You were claiming that press freedom was declining in the period since the former PM came to power and was ended by the coup in 2006. The numbers provided by Reporters Without Borders say something different.

Well, since the man was removed by the coup, press freedom didn't really IMPROVE, did it ? Au contraire I would say.

Press Freedom it decreased dramatically in the years after Thaksin was removed, especially since the low 66 in 2002 and even lower in 2004 with 59 on the world scale.

2009: Thailand is on place # 130

2008: Thailand was on place # 124

2007: Thailand was on place # 135

I was referring to your sentence about press freedom and what do you give me? A lecture in what happened in all those years

Again: I was talking about the Freedom of Press in Thailand and I think that amongst that press the English press in Thailand is also extremely biased AND gagged since September 2006.

I leave it with that, realizing that I think that Thailand is at a shameful place being # 130 on the list of 175 countries when it comes to the freedom of press.

Not so far away from China at place # 168

LaoPo

You are free to gripe at TV about your perceived anti Thaksin media bias while you read and view the pro Thaksin media to include (and more than) the specific media I originally posted in this matter - which again include the Time zine format Thaksin propaganda publication, Red tv, the many independent magazines, the pro Thaksin blogs we all read and can consider, and so on and so on that tell us how wonderful and democratic Thaksin is, how selfless and needed he is, how Thaksin is the solution to all ills and injustices.

Because of the recent introduction and proliferation of these many pro Thaksin media the Reporters Without Borders global organization may rank Thailand in the top and best 50 or so countries for press/media freedom for 2009 - or perhaps among the top 25. After all, Thaksin is free to produce and distribute his own media throughout the country, border to border. The government is not stopping him, not censoring him, not exercising the sometimes right a government can have to exert prior restraint or of other certain restraints or censorship it can implement, such as a government's right to protect itself against sedition, treason, any clear and present danger such as calculated plots/schemes to overthrow it by violence or some kind of force.   

So hold your horses on this one, at least for a while. I can always put in a good word with RWB about media freedoms in Thailand. Youknow, those very media initiated by Himself, Thaksin the Magnificent,  may yet again return Thailand to a respectable RWB ranking! 

[Publicus]

How many times and in how many ways do I have to say it, that the uninhibited inauguration by Thaksin of pro Thaksin media and its proliferation throughout the country is proof - not simply evidence - but proof that freedom of press/media, freedom of expression is healthier than ever especially given the revolutionary/civil war atmosphere and realities that exist in the present.  

Period.

[Artisi]

Who really cares, you are only going to read what the one with the most money / clout wants you to read, so read with care and use your intelligence before coming to any conclusion.

[LaoPo]

How many times and in how many ways do I have to say it, that the uninhibited inauguration by Thaksin of pro Thaksin media and its proliferation throughout the country is proof - not simply evidence - but proof that freedom of press/media, freedom of expression is healthier than ever especially given the revolutionary/civil war atmosphere and realities that exist in the present.  

Period.

As long as there's no DICTATED FROM ABOVE Press it's "proof that freedom of press/media, freedom of expression is healthier than ever especially given the revolutionary/civil war atmosphere and realities that exist in the present."

Now it's my time to laugh

MY point is that there is NO Freedom of Press in Thailand.

Thailand # 130 on the list

China # 168 on the list.

Not much difference, is there?

Period.

LaoPo

[mca]

freedom of expression is healthier than ever

There's a bloke playing 10 years of "don't drop the soap" who might not agree with you there publicus mate.

[Valentine]

There are now many posts about press freedom which really have nothing to do with the original post other than it has been reported widely here in Thailand & continues to be so which to me constitutes that press freedom is alive & well regardless of what figures or justification you can come up with.

[LaoPo]

freedom of expression is healthier than ever

There's a bloke playing 10 years of "don't drop the soap" who might not agree with you there publicus mate.

Indeed; Some people do not want to see reality.

"United we stand.....with our heads in sand!"

".....healthier than ever..."

LaoPo

[Publicus]

How many times and in how many ways do I have to say it, that the uninhibited inauguration by Thaksin of pro Thaksin media and its proliferation throughout the country is proof - not simply evidence - but proof that freedom of press/media, freedom of expression is healthier than ever especially given the revolutionary/civil war atmosphere and realities that exist in the present.  

Period.

As long as there's no DICTATED FROM ABOVE Press it's "proof that freedom of press/media, freedom of expression is healthier than ever especially given the revolutionary/civil war atmosphere and realities that exist in the present."

Now it's my time to laugh

MY point is that there is NO Freedom of Press in Thailand.

Thailand # 130 on the list

China # 168 on the list.

Not much difference, is there?

Period.

LaoPo

I said "Period" before you did.  

[caf]

How many times and in how many ways do I have to say it, that the uninhibited inauguration by Thaksin of pro Thaksin media and its proliferation throughout the country is proof - not simply evidence - but proof that freedom of press/media, freedom of expression is healthier than ever especially given the revolutionary/civil war atmosphere and realities that exist in the present.

Period.

"Period" says it all about your posts. For you, anyone disagreeing is wrong.

If you don't like the facts you go off topic or bring in Thaksin. A forum is for discussing different viewpoints. It is not a lecture theatre for your own badly thought out views. If you disagree put up a constructive argument.

Laopo has given the facts in a civil manner and you should respect the points of views of others with some respect.

Publicus, you genearlly spoil some valid points by your " over the top " bias and using a language of attack rather than a language of reason.

[caf]

How many times and in how many ways do I have to say it, that the uninhibited inauguration by Thaksin of pro Thaksin media and its proliferation throughout the country is proof - not simply evidence - but proof that freedom of press/media, freedom of expression is healthier than ever especially given the revolutionary/civil war atmosphere and realities that exist in the present.

Period.

As long as there's no DICTATED FROM ABOVE Press it's "proof that freedom of press/media, freedom of expression is healthier than ever especially given the revolutionary/civil war atmosphere and realities that exist in the present."

Now it's my time to laugh

MY point is that there is NO Freedom of Press in Thailand.

Thailand # 130 on the list

China # 168 on the list.

Not much difference, is there?

Period.

LaoPo

I said "Period" before you did.

Now you've really shown you've lost the argument.

[animatic]

Tag team counter-ranting on `TVF',

a new sport of the shut ins?

No one seemes to be able to ackowlege that each side

has made some quite valid points.

130 to 168 is quite a distance in the reality of free information.

Just as 1-25 is not as great as it seems.

When things go good it is a similar level of good,

when things go bad it is typically and individual and anachronistic local phenome.

Comparing China and Thailand press freedoms is Apples and Lychees.

Little of comparable value, except that people of chinese decent are involved in both.

[LaoPo]

130 to 168 is quite a distance in the reality of free information.

It seems so.

But Thailand was on place # 59 in 2004 ...and that's an even greater distance (59 down to 130) than Thailand's present # 130 to >>>>168 for China in 2009.

Freedom of Press and Speech in Thailand is downhill not uphill.

That was my point, not comparing Thailand with China. Cant be done because of thousands of reasons.

LaoPo

[animatic]

And as Publicus pointed out, and you blithely ignored, that after 2004,

Thaksin did put extreme pressure on the Thai papers to conform to his views and silence dissent.

We have just recently seen the conviction of The Caravan Of The Poor leaders for taking over

The Nation's office's in a gross and belligerent act of intimidation, after cowing the B. Post financially.

C of The P are really the proto redshirt mob and were just his IN Office attack dog,

vs his out of office attempts at mobs creating disorder to make the government appear ineffective.

This whole downward spiral was propagated by Thaksin and it was his attempts to stir up

propaganda trouble, that have continued that spiral. Da Torpedo and her ilk have gone beyond

all previous efforts at creating a negative press image for Thailand, by their aggressive behaviors.

Certain police and prosecutes and citizens have gone out of their way to push those buttons too.

Her conviction was not strictly a press speech issue, but as much on of sedition and border line treason.

She torpedo'd herself with her own mouth.

But yet we can STILL read Thaksin's publications and propaganda daily, freely, and even on Samuioo,

Tkasin mag azione is available, no one has torn if from the nwes stands or burned it...

nor bought it I can clearly add too...

And even Lao Po's and many others comments regularly are seen and left up,

as if no real limits were placed on our speeches, short of sedition.

In ALL countries certain speech is regulated. Don't cry FIRE in a crowded theater,

don't call for the murder of the countries leader either.

Well seems THAT last gets a pas in LOS.

Certainly Lese Majesty is more strictly enforced lately directly in relation to greatly

increased severity of intentional offenses related to it.

Getting an 'arbitrary listing' is not necessarily a death nell for freedom of speech,

when most things can be said with little worries and total freedom.

Except maybe good taste issues do get considered.

Rude is rude in most languages.

The things I might be prohibited from saying, I see no reason to say at all.

So I find it a bit hard to see what I am losing.

[animatic]

I guess if your total exposure to Thailand recently is from TVF arguments, then maybe you could lose your way,

especially when arbitrarily ignoring those that actually LIVE in Thailand in the bargain.

No where on earth exists this Utopian space that Thailand keeps being held up to in comparison.

It is what it is, enjoy it or not but at least make an effort to understand it first hand,

not in some chronic rebuttal mode.

The WHOLE WORLD is in a prosperity down turn, why on earth would Thailand be the sole

land to go against the trend in any serious degree. As the world levels off from it's nose dive,

so shall Thailand. Unless externally propagated divisionist forces cause it to implode or explode.

That is Thailand's only serious wild card at this time. Arguing against this force being given free

reign is not an exercise in monomaniacal obsession, but in fostering national self preservation.

Edited December 27, 2009 by animatic

[LaoPo]

I came to Thailand for the first time much longer ago than most of you chaps and if actually living in LOS, on an island for instance, is the line of knowing better than others, well so be it if you feel more comfortable with your own knowledge.

The insults by some do not harm me; some of you take it so personal but that's losing your own battle for the major part. If politicians in your own country would take every discussion and opinion the same way as some of you Gents do, well that would be bad for the country, wouldn't it ?

The funny thing is that if I do not agree with the opinion of some of you, I'm the bad guy

I assure you: I'm not a bad guy, believe me....will you believe me *?:

* Cmdr. Drury: Smart, you appear to be in pretty good shape, do you work out?

Maxwell Smart: I jog one hundred miles every day! Would you believe it? One hundred miles!

Cmdr. Drury: I find that hard to believe.

Maxwell Smart: Would you believe fifty?

Cmdr. Drury: No!

Maxwell Smart: How about two push ups and a deep breath?

Keep smiling boys...keep smiling

LaoPo

[Publicus]

How many times and in how many ways do I have to say it, that the uninhibited inauguration by Thaksin of pro Thaksin media and its proliferation throughout the country is proof - not simply evidence - but proof that freedom of press/media, freedom of expression is healthier than ever especially given the revolutionary/civil war atmosphere and realities that exist in the present.

Period.

"Period" says it all about your posts. For you, anyone disagreeing is wrong.

If you don't like the facts you go off topic or bring in Thaksin. A forum is for discussing different viewpoints. It is not a lecture theatre for your own badly thought out views. If you disagree put up a constructive argument.

Laopo has given the facts in a civil manner and you should respect the points of views of others with some respect.

Publicus, you genearlly spoil some valid points by your " over the top " bias and using a language of attack rather than a language of reason.

Thanks mr. caf for always keeping track of my posts and continually offering critical advice concerning my biases, attitudes and voice. Your periodic critiques are uninvited, unsolicited and condescending, but are more polite than your unwelcome PMs to which I don't respond (but won't block). (I'd be curious how you might self critique your own posts?)

FYI, my "period" is to halt discussion related but marginal to the thread and which had per se begun to consume an entire page of the thread. Disagreement between LaoPo and I was aired thoroughly, argued vigorously and extensively, to the point of tedium. This is why I said "period". Each LaoPo and I had had more than our say on press freedom so in my judgement the time had come to give space to others who might have any thoughts or views in the matter.

So anyway continue to police and pronounce on how I'm doing - oh yeah, you regularly do anyway regardless.     

[phetaroi]

2009: Thailand is on place # 130

2008: Thailand was on place # 124

2007: Thailand was on place # 135

This data doesn't say what you think it says. Because it compares Thailand to other countries, what is happened in those other countries can change Thailand's ranking just as much as what happens in Thailand can change its ranking.

I don't know whether your general opinion is right or wrong, but your data analysis is wrong.

[LaoPo]

2009: Thailand is on place # 130

2008: Thailand was on place # 124

2007: Thailand was on place # 135

This data doesn't say what you think it says. Because it compares Thailand to other countries, what is happened in those other countries can change Thailand's ranking just as much as what happens in Thailand can change its ranking.

I don't know whether your general opinion is right or wrong, but your data analysis is wrong.

You jumped to conclusions without reading the previous message with the data since 2002, so it seems:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thai-Governm...27#entry3226927

ALL data is by Reporters Without Borders/Reporters sans Frontières , not me; have a look and find the data yourself if you wish:

http://www.rsf.org/en-zone2-Asia.html

My own data analysis, based upon the data provided by RWB -above-, is that Thailand was # 66 in 2002 (on a total of 139 countries) and is now, in 2009 on place # 130, out of a total of 175 countries...

Press Freedom Index 2009

http://www.rsf.org/en-classement1003-2009.html

But, if you claim that my data analysis is wrong...so be it, but in your opinion, not mine.

I invite you to explain why my analysis is wrong and why you're correct.

LaoPo

[Valentine]

What has all this discussion about press freedom got to do with the original post other than it was reported, uncensored, & discussions continue about the "plot". It is has any relevance please enlighten me otherwise you should open another thread about press freedom which certainly is an important topic in its own right.

[animatic]

Juatuporn gets his opposition press time to spout bald faced lies and release

purloined government documents, and his own half baked theories on what they mean.

Like the spurious and solely alleged threats to kill Thaksin...

sounds like press freedom to me.

He can say most any stupid-ass thing he wants and it sees the light of day in the press.

As to the comment above, yes what other countries do in their press world certainly DOES affect

where Thailand sits in those numbers.

One must also consider the sources of many of these suits of lese majesty

as parts of power plays aimed at specific groups, just one group using a particular

law to harass another. A law that came in handy in this particular case,

and has nationalistic overtones, always a plus here.

Very few of these are actual 'government' led or directed actions,

but some nearly nameless person working with some corrupt middle level cop to get back

at an opposing team, and spouting platitudes about protecting the kingdom while doing it.

It is dirty pool played with a weapon at hand, and nothing to do with actually stifling the press.

But it is another tool some can use to embarrass the government with, if viewed out of context.

Any further word on the FCC suit by a unknown complaintant, and a under card police lacky?

Nope it's moribund, just a shot across the bows to silence embarrassment, but not the governments.

It's more a cop-ruption based embarrassment. Just stirring the pot.

It's about silencing one Thai's over the top words, by the opposing sides machinations.

Power politics, not press freedom, the FCC just got caught in the middle of this power play.

Isn't the source of these words now an fugative hiding in Cambo,

and fomenting insurrection for left of red causes? Why yes.

But it helps the opposition to cry press freedom violations...

Survey says?

I sit in Europe and know everything, since the web page I read tells me so,

and I must tell the world I do repeatedly.

Edited December 28, 2009 by animatic

[caf]

In fact it's a sad degrading society in a country losing it's way to democracy and prosperity.

LaoPo

Democracy?

You're having a laff if you mean your obviously 'preferred', suffocating, self-serving Thaksin-autocracy?

Greedy people?

'His excellency' the right honourable Mr Thaksin certainly fills the bill...

A country full of greedy people, all the way from the highest, unmentionable, top to the deepest poorest beggars in the gutters.

I pity Thailand

LaoPo

Quoting LaoPo: "greedy people, all the way from the highest, unmentionable"

Wha tha??????

Pity you mate, just pity, *period*.

PS: get help (sincerely)

You ridicule the quote but you do not answer it. The person you quote did not mention a preferred autocracy. Are you disagreeing that Thailand is losing its way to democracy. If you are, then provide a reasoned argument.

Greedy people. You pick thaksin. Are you saying there are no other candidates currently. If you are, then provide a reasoned argument.

[caf]

How many times and in how many ways do I have to say it, that the uninhibited inauguration by Thaksin of pro Thaksin media and its proliferation throughout the country is proof - not simply evidence - but proof that freedom of press/media, freedom of expression is healthier than ever especially given the revolutionary/civil war atmosphere and realities that exist in the present.

Period.

"Period" says it all about your posts. For you, anyone disagreeing is wrong.

If you don't like the facts you go off topic or bring in Thaksin. A forum is for discussing different viewpoints. It is not a lecture theatre for your own badly thought out views. If you disagree put up a constructive argument.

Laopo has given the facts in a civil manner and you should respect the points of views of others with some respect.

Publicus, you genearlly spoil some valid points by your " over the top " bias and using a language of attack rather than a language of reason.

Thanks mr. caf for always keeping track of my posts and continually offering critical advice concerning my biases, attitudes and voice. Your periodic critiques are uninvited, unsolicited and condescending, but are more polite than your unwelcome PMs to which I don't respond (but won't block). (I'd be curious how you might self critique your own posts?)

FYI, my "period" is to halt discussion related but marginal to the thread and which had per se begun to consume an entire page of the thread. Disagreement between LaoPo and I was aired thoroughly, argued vigorously and extensively, to the point of tedium. This is why I said "period". Each LaoPo and I had had more than our say on press freedom so in my judgement the time had come to give space to others who might have any thoughts or views in the matter.

So anyway continue to police and pronounce on how I'm doing - oh yeah, you regularly do anyway regardless.

" Uninvited critiques" ?? This is a public forum. Everyone is invited to air their views ( under the law and without flaming) Your use of the word uninvited in reference to your own posts is most illuminating. So when we respond to you we must get an invitation and presumably only agree with you?

Policing on the forum is something mods do, not me. But since you have raised it I will confirm that I have reported your flaming to mods, as have others. But it is they and not me that police this forum.

Private messages are exactly that private. It is not the done thing old boy to refer to them publicly. I will not now report that breach of etiquette or of the rules, but I would appreciate, having looked at the pm again, a full apology on the public forum. You are leaving an unjustifiable stain on my character with other members.

I am happy for the mods to post them publicly. Your comments will then be seen for what they are. Slurs without evidence.

Edited December 28, 2009 by caf