Retirement Visa Spending Patterns

[Thaiquila]

I understand the mechanics of the retirement visa, how you have to show a bank account balance over 800K baht and have to show a pattern of spending and foreign transfers during the year.

However, I wonder if you happen to spend considerably less than 800K during the year, for example 400K or 500K, but you can still show the pattern of spending and transferring, is that going to be a problem with visa renewal?

Are they more likely to give that kind of application a harder time?

I think it is a relevant question because many retirees are already setup with their paid for condos or houses and startup costs and may easily spend less, even MUCH less, than 800K.

Edited April 22, 2005 by Thaiquila

[lopburi3]

Should not be a problem; and have not heard of anyone having such a problem.

You can always throw a year end party if it becomes so.

[harpman88]

I take it T.Quila also realizes that if one has a guaranteed income/ pension certified by one's embassy that the bank. acct. wouldn't have to be 800k baht either,as long as the yearly pension income compensates for the shortfall..Realizing that a substantial bank balance and the funds being used therein throughout the year would still be what Thai

Imm.wants to see.

[Ajarn]

I understand the mechanics of the retirement visa, how you have to show a bank account balance over 800K baht and have to show a pattern of spending and foreign transfers during the year.

However, I wonder if you happen to spend considerably less than 800K during the year, for example 400K or 500K, but you can still show the pattern of spending and transferring, is that going to be a problem with visa renewal?

Are they more likely to give that kind of application a harder time?

I think it is a relevant question because many retirees are already setup with their paid for condos or houses and startup costs and may easily spend less, even MUCH less, than 800K.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There is NO requirement that you have to show any kind of spending habits at all that I'm aware of. Only income to meet the minimum requirements. Just have the money in the bank once per year, just before immigration time. No sweat

Edited April 23, 2005 by Ajarn

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I understand the mechanics of the retirement visa, how you have to show a bank account balance over 800K baht and have to show a pattern of spending and foreign transfers during the year.

However, I wonder if you happen to spend considerably less than 800K during the year, for example 400K or 500K, but you can still show the pattern of spending and transferring, is that going to be a problem with visa renewal?

Are they more likely to give that kind of application a harder time?

I think it is a relevant question because many retirees are already setup with their paid for condos or houses and startup costs and may easily spend less, even MUCH less, than 800K.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There is NO requirement that you have to show any kind of spending habits at all that I'm aware of. Only income to meet the minimum requirements. Just have the money in the bank once per year, just before immigration time. No sweat

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Spot on Ajarn. Although Lops idea of a B I G party appeals IF we get invited

[PeaceBlondie]

I would think that the purpose of the 800K requirement is not so much that you'll spend it all, but that you'll hopefully keep a cushion for emergencies.

But that's what I get for thinking.

[Thetyim]

Sorry Ajarn, I do not agree with you.

If you have 800k stuck in the bank for 12 months you will have to explain where your spending money comes from.

Immigration will assume that you are working without a WP.

If you show a monthly withdrawal then everyone will be happy.

And to answer the OP question, No you do not have to spend all the 800k each year.

[Ajarn]

Sorry Ajarn, I do not agree with you.

If you have 800k stuck in the bank for 12 months you will have to explain where your spending money comes from.

Immigration will  assume that you are working without a WP.

If you show a monthly withdrawal then everyone will be happy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Who says? That's not been my experience (my bankbook doesn't show any withdrawls for 3 years) nor have I ever heard of anyone ever being questioned, nor have I ever seen a regulation to that effect...

So, what is the evidence for your hypothesis?

[Thetyim]

OK, OK calm down.

I have never seen a written regulation either.

I have been on one year extensions for 10 years.

Three immigration officiers have told me I MUST show where my monthly spending money comes from.

I tried just showing a bank balance once that had been static for a year and was dragged into the office and grilled for ONE HOUR.

The head officier (female) was implying that I was working .

I eventually got stamped but it was a very uncomfortable morning and something that I would advise trying to avoid.

[Ken]

OK,  OK  calm down.

I have never seen a written regulation either.

I have been on one year extensions for 10 years.

Three immigration officiers have told me I MUST show where my monthly spending money comes from.

I tried just showing a bank balance once that had been static for a year and was dragged into the office and grilled for ONE HOUR.

The head officier (female) was implying that I was working .

I eventually got stamped but it was a very uncomfortable morning and something that I would advise trying to avoid.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My understanding is that if you do not have a pension coming and are basing your extension solely on the "money in the bank", then indeed, immigration would want to see some activity in that account. Ie.: withdrawals and then topping it off at extension time to the tune of 800,000.

[Ajarn]

No issue of 'calm' for me here.. Just asking.

I agree it's certainly better to be safe than sorry, but 'facts' for others stated here should be based on the law and other written regulations, in my opinion.

Our individual experiences with immigration officers may vary, but the bottom line is the law and Immigration regulations. I've been harrassed by a couple of folks over the years, too, but they could do nothing because I hadn't violated any regulations. In my case, thet were trying to squeeze me for an under-the-table payment, which I refused. The harrassment was get-back.

If I'd had your experience, I'd be concerned and careful, too. But I would state my reasoning by telling my story in order to provide some clearer perspective to others.

I do certainly agree with your thoughts about covering your ass, just in case. TiT, and all that... But as far as I know, the only proof that is required by law or any other regulations concerns income, not spending.

I still can only hope I'm right. TiT, and all that...

[Thetyim]

My understanding is that if you do not have a pension coming and are basing your extension solely on the "money in the bank", then indeed, immigration would want to see some activity in that account.  Ie.:  withdrawals and then topping it off at extension time to the tune of 800,000.

Yes, that is what I have experienced to be true over the past few years

but it is not written into the rules apparently.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

A bottle or two of good red is said to make a difference. Chai mai Ajarn ?

[ozzydom]

My understanding is that if you do not have a pension coming and are basing your extension solely on the "money in the bank", then indeed, immigration would want to see some activity in that account.  Ie.:  withdrawals and then topping it off at extension time to the tune of 800,000.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, that is what I have experienced to be true over the past few years

but it is not written into the rules apparently.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My experience with C/M Imm. the last few years mirrors Ajarn ,all they request is a certified letter from your Thai bank,but as a precaution I always take a print-out of my oz bank statement to show that we live off funds from outside LOS.

Not to say that wont change next week when my new one is due.

[Ajarn]

A bottle or two of good red is said to make a difference. Chai mai Ajarn ? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sadly, that didn't work in my case. The red they wanted was my life'$ blood. Only a friend made a difference...

For those fearing hassles from immigration, my recent experiences tell me those fears are not irrational at all. My opinion about 'professionalism' at Immigration has changed a lot over the last couple of years, especially in Chiang Mai.

My only point here has been that these money fears don't seem to based on laws or regulations which, theoretically, should mean no problems, but I fully realize that reality and theory often have little connection to each another here....

Yes, it's best to bring whatever you think you might need, right along with the stuff you really need

I'm still in a lawyerish mood for some academic argument. Any takers?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

A bottle or two of good red is said to make a difference. Chai mai Ajarn ? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sadly, that didn't work in my case. The red they wanted was my life'$ blood. Only a friend made a difference...

For those fearing hassles from immigration, my recent experiences tell me those fears are not irrational at all. My opinion about 'professionalism' at Immigration has changed a lot over the last couple of years, especially in Chiang Mai.

My only point here has been that these money fears don't seem to based on laws or regulations which, theoretically, should mean no problems, but I fully realize that reality and theory often have little connection to each another here....

Yes, it's best to bring whatever you think you might need, right along with the stuff you really need

I'm still in a lawyerish mood for some academic argument. Any takers?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Given the T i T situation Ajarn, sensible argument is not a possibility

[Gary A]

My US Citibank charges me $1.50 per ATM transaction. I have a Siam bank account and they charge nothing for an ATM transaction. I have a retirement visa. I have found it very simple to wire transfer money to the Siam bank to meet the 800,000 baht requirement each year. I top off the Siam bank account right before I apply for my next visa and draw on that account for all my living expenses here. Citibank charges me $30 per transfer regardless of the amount. The Siam bank service charge is very small.

A bottle or two of good red is said to make a difference. Chai mai Ajarn ? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sadly, that didn't work in my case. The red they wanted was my life'$ blood. Only a friend made a difference...

For those fearing hassles from immigration, my recent experiences tell me those fears are not irrational at all. My opinion about 'professionalism' at Immigration has changed a lot over the last couple of years, especially in Chiang Mai.

My only point here has been that these money fears don't seem to based on laws or regulations which, theoretically, should mean no problems, but I fully realize that reality and theory often have little connection to each another here....

Yes, it's best to bring whatever you think you might need, right along with the stuff you really need

I'm still in a lawyerish mood for some academic argument. Any takers?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Given the T i T situation Ajarn, sensible argument is not a possibility

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[harpman88]

Gary,I take it by saying "Siam Bank" that you're yet another satisfied Siam Commercial customer??

[Gary A]

Unlike the former Thai Farmers bank I have never had a problem with the Siam Commercial. I am amazed that when I do a wire transfer online from Citibank to the Siam bank the funds are in my Siam account the very next day. YES, I'm happy with them.

[Ajarn]

Unlike the former Thai Farmers bank I have never had a problem with the Siam Commercial. I am amazed that when I do a wire transfer online from Citibank to the Siam bank the funds are in my Siam account the very next day. YES, I'm happy with them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've never had any problems with transfers from US citi to tfb (kaikorn bank). Always fast, too. According to tfb, your account is credited within 15 minutes of tfb's receiving it from citi via NYBank. Never had any reason to doubt that.. In the last few years, anyway. It used to take days...

[ernieK24]

My US Citibank charges me $1.50 per ATM transaction. I have a Siam bank account and they charge nothing for an ATM transaction. I have a retirement visa. I have found it very simple to wire transfer money to the Siam bank to meet the 800,000 baht requirement each year. I top off the Siam bank account right before I apply for my next visa and draw on that account for all my living expenses here. Citibank charges me $30 per transfer regardless of the amount. The Siam bank service charge is very small.

A bottle or two of good red is said to make a difference. Chai mai Ajarn ? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sadly, that didn't work in my case. The red they wanted was my life'$ blood. Only a friend made a difference...

For those fearing hassles from immigration, my recent experiences tell me those fears are not irrational at all. My opinion about 'professionalism' at Immigration has changed a lot over the last couple of years, especially in Chiang Mai.

My only point here has been that these money fears don't seem to based on laws or regulations which, theoretically, should mean no problems, but I fully realize that reality and theory often have little connection to each another here....

Yes, it's best to bring whatever you think you might need, right along with the stuff you really need

I'm still in a lawyerish mood for some academic argument. Any takers?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Given the T i T situation Ajarn, sensible argument is not a possibility

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Gary....I am in the process of arranging to do the very same thing but am not sure just how......My situation: I have a citibank acct. large enough to be in the "covers everything" catagory, and a gold ATM card. The bank employee, the one that sits back at a desk, not the teller, advises that there would be NO charge for atm w/d's in Thailand, and that I can w/d up to 1000 dollars each day, and that money transfers would be $35 each.

I would be most appreciative if you would take a few minutes and tell me what I have to do to start the ball rolling. Do I have to go over to LOS, set up the acct., then come back and set up the transfers after I know the acct. number, or can I make that arrangement before I leave and send them the information by fax, or telephone. I DO have internet banking now, but have not tried to trnsfr yet.

Before I apply for my NI visa, I want to get it clear about the money part. I will have more than enough to qualify for the pension bit, and also have sufficient amount in my US Citi account. I am over 70 yrs old, and in excellent health, and have no criminal record. I an a retired electrician, with my steady or five years waiting for me in BKK, in her own home, (she's 50), so no problem there. The only proiblem I have is I'm a dumb shit when it comes to finances. I can wire your garage for you but I don't know squat about banking, so if you would give me

some information on what to do, (step by step), I will be eternally grateful, and who knows, it might help someone else at the same time. Thanks, Ernie.

[Gary A]

Ernie, The first thing I did before leaving California was to go to the Citibank branch I used and asked to speak with the branch manager. I told him what I wanted to do and asked for his advise. He told me that it would be easier if I linked my savings account with my checking account. He then went over the procedures for me to use the on-line service.

Off to the Kingdom; I opened an account with Siam Commercial bank and got the details that Citibank needed for a wire transfer. I went home got on-line and used the on-line service to set up the wire transfer. Citibank asks for a number they use for security. You have to ask that it be emailed to you, then you copy that number to the rest of the information required and bingo. DONE. It is an automated system and is quite easy. Just follow the instructions on the screen. One other good thing is they have an option to save the information for the next transfer.

Citibank and Siam bank have both worked out very well for me and both banks were kind enough to explain what they needed. I really like the on-line Citibank service, easy to keep track of transactions and balances. I also used the Citibank on-line bill pay to settle up all my affairs in the states. It would have really been a pain to try to send checks to settle all the closed accounts.

My US Citibank charges me $1.50 per ATM transaction. I have a Siam bank account and they charge nothing for an ATM transaction. I have a retirement visa. I have found it very simple to wire transfer money to the Siam bank to meet the 800,000 baht requirement each year. I top off the Siam bank account right before I apply for my next visa and draw on that account for all my living expenses here. Citibank charges me $30 per transfer regardless of the amount. The Siam bank service charge is very small.

A bottle or two of good red is said to make a difference. Chai mai Ajarn ? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sadly, that didn't work in my case. The red they wanted was my life'$ blood. Only a friend made a difference...

For those fearing hassles from immigration, my recent experiences tell me those fears are not irrational at all. My opinion about 'professionalism' at Immigration has changed a lot over the last couple of years, especially in Chiang Mai.

My only point here has been that these money fears don't seem to based on laws or regulations which, theoretically, should mean no problems, but I fully realize that reality and theory often have little connection to each another here....

Yes, it's best to bring whatever you think you might need, right along with the stuff you really need

I'm still in a lawyerish mood for some academic argument. Any takers?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Given the T i T situation Ajarn, sensible argument is not a possibility

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Gary....I am in the process of arranging to do the very same thing but am not sure just how......My situation: I have a citibank acct. large enough to be in the "covers everything" catagory, and a gold ATM card. The bank employee, the one that sits back at a desk, not the teller, advises that there would be NO charge for atm w/d's in Thailand, and that I can w/d up to 1000 dollars each day, and that money transfers would be $35 each.

I would be most appreciative if you would take a few minutes and tell me what I have to do to start the ball rolling. Do I have to go over to LOS, set up the acct., then come back and set up the transfers after I know the acct. number, or can I make that arrangement before I leave and send them the information by fax, or telephone. I DO have internet banking now, but have not tried to trnsfr yet.

Before I apply for my NI visa, I want to get it clear about the money part. I will have more than enough to qualify for the pension bit, and also have sufficient amount in my US Citi account. I am over 70 yrs old, and in excellent health, and have no criminal record. I an a retired electrician, with my steady or five years waiting for me in BKK, in her own home, (she's 50), so no problem there. The only proiblem I have is I'm a dumb shit when it comes to finances. I can wire your garage for you but I don't know squat about banking, so if you would give me

some information on what to do, (step by step), I will be eternally grateful, and who knows, it might help someone else at the same time. Thanks, Ernie.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Unlike the former Thai Farmers bank I have never had a problem with the Siam Commercial. I am amazed that when I do a wire transfer online from Citibank to the Siam bank the funds are in my Siam account the very next day. YES, I'm happy with them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Me too

[simcity]

800000 bahts in a Thai bank account, Sure I will be happy to use it every month and put my oversea income into a portfolio or use it for online trading! I do not see the advantage of let it sit stagnant.. Perhaps interests in Thai bank are more as what I am thinking off … or some do not need to worry to see the capital decline..

[PeaceBlondie]

Good point there, simcity (I think) - even to people for whom 800,000 baht is peanuts, you might get less than 1% on your funds in a Thai bank. So, maybe that's one more price we pay for the privilege of living here.

If I take the retirement route next year, I could take US$20,000 that's currently earning about 3% on two-year deposit, and wire it to my account at Bank of Ayudyha, where I would be lucky to get 2%. Then I could let my pension income pile up back at home, or in an offshore account with a place like Everbank.

But I think Houston will give me a one-year retirement visa on the basis of the pension fund that's already tucked away in the USA. Will that give me a one-year breathing time to rearrange my investments?

[lopburi3]

With the O-A you have until extension of stay at immigration to transfer funds and if you have verifiable pension the amount could be less or none.

[Gary A]

If it bothers you to have 800,000 baht in a Thai bank it's easy to get a certified letter from your Embassy verifying that you have 65,000 baht per month income. I have a little different outlook on having money in a savings account now. I took a pretty good beating in the stock market a few years ago. The money was in a supposedly conservatively managed portfolio. My broker must have not been watching it at all. It wasn’t a great sum of money but it’s all I had. I would have felt really good if I had had that money in a savings account with zero interest. Since then I have researched mutual funds and my two biggest holdings now are in global mutual funds. I’m happy to say that I had an honest 10% return last year and things are looking pretty good so far this year. I don't mind the idea of having the 800,000 in a Thai bank strictly because of the convenience and easy access. At this point in my life I don’t want to have to worry about the return on my money. I’m happy to know it’s there if I need it in a hurry. As like TODAY! Emergencies can crop up and I don't want to have to wait for funds to come from abroad.

For the major portion of my savings I like Morningstar five star rated high return low risk funds.

Edited April 26, 2005 by Gary A

[PeaceBlondie]

Thanks; I can't believe that I forgot about the pension route. Of course.