Income In Thailand For The Over 50's

[simon43]

Although I have a reasonable income from my software employment in Thailand right now, I'm realistic to accept that this income stream will not continue for ever. I do not have substantial savings and am starting to think of skills/knowledge that I could acquire now, so that if I become unemployed in the future, I have a 'fall-back' income solution.

One problem with employment for the over 50's is discrimination by employers, or leglislation that may restrict an employer from offering a job to you. For example, I understand that a foreign teacher may not be employed once they reach 60 years old (my recollection - might be wrong on the actual age).

A realistic solution is to acquire a skill/experience in a sector where self-employment or an online business is possible, or where your age is not a consideration, or is perceived as a benefit.

I'm looking for some long-term ideas, where it may be neccessary to undertake a period of study to obtain a formal qualification, professional membership etc

How about a qualified Financial Advisor? Again, not the 'fly-by-night' guys, but someone who can offer knowledgable advice. (Some TV members may advise me to steer clear of offering financial advice, based on my own track record!!)

Freelance Translator?

Chiropractor (that would neccessitate living in a populated area to ensure customers...)

Website design? (Actually, I do this anyway as part of my current employment, so I already have 1 possible fallback skill)

It would be very interesting to discuss ideas in this thread - one is never too old to learn a new 'trade'

Simon

[simon43]

See my OP - I am not talking about making big bucks. I speak about a residual income, but a secure income.

Since online business is one possibility, I dispute your 'thers (sic) is very limited opportunities...'

There are many opportunities to make money online, but many of these are not stable incomes. I'm thinking of a second career/income where it may be neccessary to study the subject for one or two years, obtain a degree or other recognised qualification, obtain membership of the relevant professional body, AND THEN start to build up the new business/profession.

Simon

[chiang mai]

How necessary or relevant is it to pursue the OP about his background et al when he posted a sensible question that looks only to the future, no real need to ask why someone wants to explore second career/income options at 50+, many older people do and money is not always the driver.

[GarryP]

I have thought about this myself. I am currently employed but retirement age where I work is 55 years old. I will not have sufficient funds to retire at that age so am looking at possibilities. I believe that unless you are in the right place at the right time, it will be difficult to gain employment in Thailand at that age and as a result you will need to look into being self employed, doing freelance work, etc. Many people suggest going into export related business, but without the contacts that really is a non-starter. The market does also appear to be saturated. I believe you would need to corner a niche market to make any real money, but simply selling on eBay, if done right, should provide a small but rewarding income and keep you active.

[GarryP]

The Newbie is also seems to be forgeting that many here have family in Thailand, have been working in not so well paying jobs that do not provide a pension. Does he expect them to dump their family and go back to their country of origin. Not everyone here is here simply for fun in their golden years.

[GuestHouse]

I think the number to crunch is not how much you need to earn to live in Thailand right now, but how much do you need to stash in order to have enough to live in Thailand when you are older and can't work.

So it's not only income but income + sufficient savings.

The answer to solving that equation is almost always 'go earn money outside of Thailand'.

[noahvail]

Interesting topic, Simon. It's probably presumptuous of me (since you're member 174), but how would you handle the work permit requirements as a sole prop?

As far as changing horses in the middle of the stream, so to speak, I've done that (back in the old country) and it turned out to be not only challenging but also personally rewarding.

I rather doubt that freelance translating would garner you much of an income stream. But with your Thai being good enough to qualify as a translator, I would think that freelance website design/implementation/maintenance might be able to keep you busy and provide a relatively decent, if not consistent, income stream. I will assume that in your employment you have made many contacts; and each of them could network you to others. Ability and experience matters, imho, in that area...not age. You would have to keep up with the innumerable changes that occur in programming...but you're more than likely doing that now and handling it fine.

If it's a second income stream you're after, what do you actually enjoy doing? I don't mean as a hobby; too many people think they can turn their hobby into a profitable business, and while some can make that work, most fail. You mentioned chiropractor - is that because you want to help people, or because you've been treated with a good outcome by one? You'd be looking at some years of study and a fair amount of expense, but it might work for you.

In any case, Simon, best of luck with your quest.

[simon43]

GarryP, a useful comment! I am making the same assumption that gaining employment in Thailand is unrealistic, so some form of 'offshore' or online employment should be investigated.

In the past few minutes I 've been Googling about Medical coding and billing. This is a profession that requires a qualifiecation and specialist sector knowledge, but can still be performed from a home base, and can also be performed 'offshore'. (There are offshore companies already offering these types of services, but the demand for skilled and qualified coders seems to be growing).

I'm going on 51 right now, but regardless of whether or not I have the financial means to retire, I have no intention of doing so! I prefer to work for both my own personal satisfaction AND the income that it generates. (You can never have too much money...)

Simon

[surfscuba]

i have two e-commerce websites, one a wealth-building affiliate site with clickbank, and the other sells self-defense and security products. i am also an ebay dropship powerseller of self-defense and security products.

the best part of my businesses are no inventory or shipping involved so i can run them anywhere there is internet access.

read the four hour work week and that is my life basically.

in just under a year of google adwording, i average about $12-$18,000 a month but have expansion plans and wil be ramping up my businesses.

i just travel to beaches around the world and lived in thailand for 6 months last year and am going to the islands of the philippines next.

[zaphodbeeblebrox]

For example, I understand that a foreign teacher may not be employed once they reach 60 years old (my recollection - might be wrong on the actual age).

This is a myth. First, the rule only applies to government schools. There are lots of teaching jobs outside of government schools. Second, it is on a province by province basis. Some provincial MOE's have such a rule, some don't. If a government school wants to hire you, they can obtain a waiver. I know a 72 year old teacher who was hired by a government school in a province which had a 60 year-old cap for new hires. The waiver was quickly and easily obtained from the provincial MOE.

[simon43]

Noahvail mentions the important issue of WPs. Of course, many business opportunities that could be undertaken from a base in Thailand would not qualify for a Thai WP (self-employment etc).

For the sake of discussing business ideas, let's park the issue of WPs

GuestHouse, you're right that we must also consider when/if we are unable to work, and the costs associated with care/hospitals etc. Personally, I have this reasonable well covered, so it leaves me free to think about second careers where earning a large salary is not the primary motivation.

I already work long hours doing SEO, software writing, online/server/SQL etc, so I'd like a second career that is in a different business sector.

Simon

[Bizz]

simon43 have know you for a no of years let me see from memory,

hotel owned,problems with ownership, wife problems, a little over the top wife problems , call cards, cross out three x win a prize ,call up and play tones, can you enlighten me please how you would like to earn good money without really working.

now i am taking into consideration that you were once or still are in a wheelchair this is what you told me.

on line business are very private very secretive who would like to tell you how they make there money,

i won't no way i will sell you one but then not on a on line chat forum.

[kandahar]

Hey Simon43. Sorry to hear that you have had some bad turns in the financial world. Of course, you're in good company. I know of a few that had their futures secured so well, by the "normal" standards, only to see the world turn upside down on them. These are sure uncertain times.

Lots of talk on TV about the do's and don'ts of business for a Falang in Thailand. Do a little reading on the official sites to make sure you don't cross the line.

I don't know where you live or what may be in demand in your area. But my own particular rule is to watch, listen and study. In most areas, there is a need for something that just can't be found readily. You only have to pay attention to discover what it is that people are wishing they had in that area. So far, in my area, I have started two little businesses that are doing okay and both were based on things that people talked about wanting but couldn't find. One of them was something that I spent a lot of time and money looking for before deciding to just be the guy that sells that item instead of looking for it. With that in mind, just keep an open mind about what folks are wanting or would purchase if it was available. Maybe it is a product, maybe it is a service

Concerning your current skills, I would think you are in great shape to get busier with the web design business instead of looking for another career or degree. There have been LOTS of requests on TV for a web site designer. Maybe there are LOTS of people doing it already but I would guess not. If they were that abundant, people wouldn't be spending so much time looking for them. One thing that won't change: as the days and years go by, more and more businesses want to be online. Thailand is way behind in that area. Many of the businesses that ought to be on the web, aren't. I can't find the sites for the places I need on the web in English and my Thai wife can't find them in Thai. When we finally get a number for a producer and ask them if they have a web page, they say "No, not yet but we are going to." And many of the sites that are out there are really lacking in functionality and professionalism. Seems to me that you are in a good place to just start growing your website design business a little at a time. I myself will be needing someone to put together some sites for me in the near future IF I can find enough good workers to keep up with the demand. Right now, I don’t want any more business because I'm too far behind.

Speaking of finding enough good workers, I perceive a real need in my area for a man-power type business that provides good workers to employers in need, from day-laborers right on up to some of the top professions. That is just one need that jumps out at me every time I get discouraged with the workforce I deal with here.

Simon43, here's the thing. You're as smart as the next guy. Look around, see what's needed and isn't there. I advise against getting into something that is already covered. It is tough to get into a market that already has lots of competition. In this country, people will lose money in a business just to stay in business. ”What the market will bear” isn't applicable here. Wierd thing, but it seems that it happens everywhere in Thailand. Focus on what isn't there and is needed and then make sure you're the guy that does it best. If you have success, folks will copy you quickly. Be the best and folks with a sense of value for the money will seek you out. Those are the customers you want. They pay decent money for decent product and service. No matter what business you are in, you won’t be able to afford to go head on with the folks that sell crap (services and product) for next to nothing. Don’t even start down that road. Let your customers know right up front that if they want the cheapest, they need to keep on walking because you’re a “quality” guy.

Good luck, fella. Keep your head up.

Edited December 28, 2009 by kandahar

[simon43]

Bizz, some facts and some errors in what you say

- I'm not in a wheelchair, but I built a hotel that was fully accessible for wheelchairs

- I've never been involved with calling cards, scratch cards, ringtones etc

- I have made very good money from both the hotel and mobile software, but I am clearly too trusting of my marital partners

- I have no interest in get-rich, make-money-whilst-doing-nothing schemes. Please read my posts again. I am talking about a second career, with the neccessary period of education and training and HARD WORK before you see the returns

I do not want to hear about your wonderful money-making scheme. I want to discuss second career opportunities for the more mature of us who are residing in Thailand

Simon

[simon43]

Hi Kandahar, website design is a possible opportunity, and I have previously made decent revenues from creating e-commerce websites, configuring SQL databases, linking them to online payment engines etc.

But I find it very boring!! That's because I spend all day writing software in my primary employment If needs must, then I'll do website design as an emergency income source. But I'd like to identify and pursue a second career that is not so involved with software/computers. (I'm not thinking of giving up my primary employment - but having 2 employable skills are better than one).

Simon

[Neeranam]

not to be pessimistic.

but what have you been doing all these years to be in your position.

unless you one special guy with some kind of special skills you looking at minimal income .

one doesnt come to thailand and then figure out how to finace it. it should already be financed long be4 one gets here.

One can and one did.

[kandahar]

I understand the boredom thing. Been there too many times and have changed careers a lot in my life. When I was young and working in a factory, I had so many old guys telling me to run for the door or I would end up like them, same place, same job, same little town, same little life, same everything. I finally saw what they meant and bailed. Haven't regretted it. That steady life is for some folks but wasn't for me. Most of those guys also lost their retirement when the company folded in the late 80's.

But, yeah, I sure do get bored with jobs, doing the same thing day after day. These days, I get to do a lot of creating and I can handle this for a long while. Hopefully, you'll find something that suits you

[Neeranam]

Simon - I know you speak Thai well - you should try the translation business.

I know you were earning/earn an awful lot of money - I really don't understand why you need a second skill. Stick some aside.

Maybe stay away from women

Speaking Thai, you could teach in a university - I used to work with one guy who was 74!

[simon43]

Many of you seem focused on money, money, money! I was probably the same when I was younger. Now I'm more concerned about opportunities to work for a residual but reasonably secure income.

I cannot imagine not working, so please stop the suggestions about saving the money away I enjoy working and want to ensure that as I age (gracefully), I am qualified and able to work in a business sector that is challenging and creates a reasonable income. I have no interest whatso ever in retiring to the garden. (My father worked until the day he dies at 89 years old and I hope to do the same...)

As for my past endeavours, I have made good money and lost good money. I'm currently making good money again, but recognise that this could change, whether due to my own stupidity or due to factors that are outside my control.

It's a foolhardy person who sits with a smug smile on his face because he's made a pot of cash - it can easily be lost again. (Just think of the banking crisis earlier this year).

Is it not sensible to consider second income opportunities?

Neeranam - teaching in a university is certainly a possible second career. That does require living in a city where such institutions are located. In any case, as one gets older, the need to live close to medical/support facilities means that living in a rural area may not be realistic.

Simon

[GarryP]

Have you ever thought of counselling? I understand that you need patience and cool headedness, which you appear to have from the restraint you have shown to dingaling's goading.

[simon43]

GarryP - Yes, that is an area of work that I've considered before. It could be an attractive proposition to build a small 'retreat' in rural Thailand where professional counselling was available. It's also a business which requires training, counselling qualifications etc (ie not for those looking for a quick-fix income).

[jcon]

I don't have any advice to give, Simon.... but I'm impressed that you are member "174." Hmm.... there's an idea.... how about becoming an admin for this forum - I don't know what george pays but hey if you're bored.... well let's just say ThaiVisa isn't exactly the meeting place for the motivated intelligentsia so you can just "admin" or "mod" around all day long -

edit: sorry, I typed "147" instead of "174".... God forbid I give you an extra 27 spaces in the TV queue!!!

Edited December 28, 2009 by jcon

[simon43]

Jcon - I fear that on the pay George offers, I'd have problems buying my Pot Noodle each day

[Nio]

Simon first of all you say you are currently making good money yet you do not define "good money"?

Are you an employee of a company because if you are, your definition of good money and others may be much different.

You are being smart to looking ahead.

Looking ahead to medical facilities, cost etc in the golden years is a good idea.

First of all there are 10,000's of web designers and programmers here in Thailand and to think that it is a guaranteed income doing it on your own is not realistic

Secondly, the Thai University system is churning out 100,000 graduates a year with Masters Degrees willing to work for almost nothing just to be working.

Is there any magic bullet or education to guarantee you success and a job past 50?

Maybe if you invest 8 years in Medical School and set up your own private practice?

There is lots of fluff from farangs claiming to make $18,000 a month from google adwords and all kinds of other stupendous claims.

The reality of life in Thailand is that to make a guaranteed 100,000 thb per month is a challenge and anyone that says it is not a challenge is not being realistic.

I would say the best chance you have is to be a business owner and probably make that money from outside of Thailand.

It is easier to get to 100,000 thb per month bringing in pounds and dollars versus Thai baht.

Some farangs that years ago made it on Ebay, for MOST that has dried up, some found a niche and can still make it.

The problem is Thai products plus international shipping, unless shipping in huge quantities, are not so much of a bargain anymore

If you bought something here for $10 and the end buyer pays $10 for shipping, $20 might not be a good price anymore.

It is a difficult situation, I think more difficult that some people that live week to week want to admit.

My wife works in Dubai for Emirates the past 3 years and makes around US $42,000 a year there will all housing and costs paid.

She has a college degree and a masters degree.

We have been brainstorming for a year, what we could do or start a new business or whatever in Thailand that would allow her to make the same income here in Thailand that she makes in Dubai, but for the past year no concrete ideas.

My thoughts at this point is the money has to be coming in from outside of Thailand to make it work

You could also take Lee Iochocca's business advice?

If you want to be successful in business, find a business that is making money and do it better and cheaper.

[Phatcharanan]

i have two e-commerce websites, one a wealth-building affiliate site with clickbank, and the other sells self-defense and security products. i am also an ebay dropship powerseller of self-defense and security products.

the best part of my businesses are no inventory or shipping involved so i can run them anywhere there is internet access.

read the four hour work week and that is my life basically.

in just under a year of google adwording, i average about $12-$18,000 a month but have expansion plans and wil be ramping up my businesses.

i just travel to beaches around the world and lived in thailand for 6 months last year and am going to the islands of the philippines next.

Yeah. I got me several e-commerce sites. One is a retail operation with 'clickburger'. Cool part is that everytime someone clicked on the 'clickburger' I would make 5 cents.

I then had to call the local Burger Bar whilst sat on my beach in Iowa and order the burger.

Only problem was that my average phone call was about $3 so I didn't really make any money...................actually I lost quite a lot.

I was also on Ebay...........several times in fact. Again, like you, there was no inventory or shipping involved. There was also no product. I was mostly barred after a couple of days.

I too do google adwording. Last year I made $12 - $18. It might have been closer to $12 come to think of it.

I am also hoping to go to the Philippines next..........as soon as I sort out my overstay problems with Immigration.

Not many other countries will have me.

Edited December 29, 2009 by Phatcharanan

[Naam]

I think the number to crunch is not how much you need to earn to live in Thailand right now, but how much do you need to stash in order to have enough to live in Thailand when you are older and can't work.

So it's not only income but income + sufficient savings.

The answer to solving that equation is almost always 'go earn money outside of Thailand'.

seconded!

[Gary A]

I'm a conservative old man too. Young guys come over here and burn their peak earning years eking out a meager living. Maybe they came over with a pocket full of money and good ideas. They ignored the number one rule that says to NEVER to spend more than they can afford to walk away from. Now money is short and prospects are thin. No savings, no pension and very little hope. Even if they go home, they will face age discrimination and end up working in a fast food joint or a bag boy in a supermarket. Guys who held their noses to the grindstone and built savings and earned a pension find it difficult to work up much sympathy. Sorry.

[Wolfram]

Hi, I am new here but I have the same thoughts for when I will make my move to Thailand. Working now abroad to see that I pay off property and then checking at the same time what might be in demand. Not so easy but together with Thai fiancee should be able to figure out something. Only problem I see is that I will be on the outskirts of Bangkok and not in a Tourist place or in the middle of nowhere.

So anyone in Bangkok area done something?

Is gonna be hard but hopefully not MI.

I think for pension I am fine for Thailand. Just do not wanna get bored at older age.

Wolfram

[simon43]

GaryA, I'm in agreement with you here! I have a pension, some savings, a large inheritance to come and a good job. All that seems to be lost on a few posters who failed to read my OP and cannot understand that some people actually like to work and not retire at 65 Money is not the only motivation

Naam, please write all your posts in Arabic! I'm currently learning to read Arabic and Farsi, and reading your recent comment is good practice

Simon

[RAZZELL]

Simon, over the years I've read you up's and downs... and very entertaining they were too

You're an extremely intelligent guy, but sometimes you can't see the wood for the trees

From memory your last hotel reached no 1 on Tripdavisor in Phuket for a short period of time, so you obviously "connected" with your market. Why not do it again on a smaller scale?

What about a small boutique hotel with 5-10 rooms? Somewhere like Koh Lanta?

You've done it before why not do it again?

I went to Bali in September and stayed at a Belgium guy's hotel - he had a great little place. Flat screens, ipod, wifi etc. Booked every night.

You could spend your time marketing, online promotions, getting involved with e-commerce etc...being "mine-host"

If it's any consolation I've been doing my job for the last ten years and I'm bored too!

All the best

RAZZ

Edited December 29, 2009 by RAZZELL