Don't Give A Rip About English

[Neeranam]

On a wider front, English is the lingua franca of modern international business - not just the language needed to communicate with some grumpy old foreigner trying to buy whatever it is grumpy old foreigners buy, but also the language that international business contracts are written in and conducted with.

In that context Thailand does pretty poorly when it comes to speaking and working with this language of international business.

But let's focus on foreigners not learning Thai in the fine tradition of sticking one's head in the sand.

Thank you. This was, in part, the point I was trying to make. Khon Kaen is not a tourist mecca, however there are a fair number of foreign customers that I see in Tesco, Big C, etc and certainly the hotels here. Many are short term visitors and I hardly think they will be spending the time to become proficient in Thai, before they arrive here. True enough, Malaysia and India enjoy some advantage in English, due to their former colonial status. But this is not the only explanation, after independence Malaysia let the importance of English slide, since it was considered a colonial hang-over. When I lived there 15 years ago, English proficiency was certainly not universal. Since then, the government has recognized the significance of English as a language of international importance and I found the level of English knowledge to be considerably more widespread. It is considered a badge of status in Malaysia and certainly Singapore, to have good English skills. This is definitely NOT the case in Thailand.

On a further note, if one was to take the time to look at the credentials for the proffessors and physicians of Sing. and Maylasia, one would be very surprised, a good portion of them are trained at western univ. While those in Thialand, could't even dream to go beyond the borders of Thailand due to their lack of English skills.

So the end result is an "in bred" education" with out the ability to read current research etc.

When I worked in KK university, my three Thai colleagues had been educated abroad. In fact, nearly all the ones I know( at least 50) were educated abroad.

My local family GP was educated in Scotland. My last GP was educated in USA. I have 5 doctor friends who were ALL educated abroad.

If one changed one's social circle, one might find some more English speakers.

[Neeranam]

I have encountered the same non-existent English skills at almost 100% in places like Big C, Tesco, and the major hotels, with the exception of the Pullman

I encountered excellent English skills in the Kosa Hotel, Charoen Thani Princess, Khon Kaen Hotel, Sawdee Hotel, Khon Inn Hotel.

By your style of writing, I assume that you are not an native English speaker?

[Dakhar]

Comparing Singapore to Thailand is like comparing Canada to Botswana, ok. Don't even go there.

Thailand has never needed English except when it came to providing the R&R for American and Australian servicemen during the Vietnam war era. French was of more use during the colonial times since it was the French that called the shots, slicing off bits and pieces of the Kingdom when they so wished. Thailand's foreign affairs people at the time spoke French. And then came the period of subservience to Japan, where a knowledge of Japanese was important. Today as China looms, the need will be to speak Chinese, not English. There really is little need for English. If one wanrted to service the tourist trade, I'd think Swedish would me of more use, at least certainly more profitable since the Swedes are big tourism spenders, whereas Hindi, Arabic and Urdu speakers are not.

"Little Need for English"? No doubt many Thais think the same as you. Never mind the Brits, Aussies, Kiwis, Irish and Americans in Thailand. As you point out, a drop in the bucket, compared to the Swedes. From my experience here, English seems to be the language of choice with non-native English visitors and residents in Thailand, be they German, Italian, Arabic, etc. No doubt Chinese language will become a much more significant factor in international businesses in the future, but I don't think it will be replacing English anytime soon. If the average Thai has no interest in mastering English, I hardly think they are going to exert themselves learning Chinese. How many Chinese tourists and expats have you seen in Thailand, by the way?

I usually find GK's posts to be very accurate.... but I have to disagree. I speak Mandarin Chinese really well, but when I go to Shanghai, it is pretty useless. All the meetings are held in English, and we only revert to Mandarin when telling a joke or talking "locker room jargon." Other than that, every thing is in English. Now with dealing with the uneducated class I guess speaking Chinese is a plus, or dealing with members of lower staff etc. But management level people have very strong English.

Another example of this is if u spend some time on Alibaba Chinese companies have people waiting on line, ready to chat with potential customers regarding the co. and products etc. (all in Englsih) Now if u search a Thai co, on Alibaba, you will have a very difficult time finding a person there to chat with.

Bottom line, English is the language of business, and the Chinese are savy enough to know this. Others countries are just going to sit back and watch the train go by and say.... "we have rice."

[Dakhar]

On a wider front, English is the lingua franca of modern international business - not just the language needed to communicate with some grumpy old foreigner trying to buy whatever it is grumpy old foreigners buy, but also the language that international business contracts are written in and conducted with.

In that context Thailand does pretty poorly when it comes to speaking and working with this language of international business.

But let's focus on foreigners not learning Thai in the fine tradition of sticking one's head in the sand.

Thank you. This was, in part, the point I was trying to make. Khon Kaen is not a tourist mecca, however there are a fair number of foreign customers that I see in Tesco, Big C, etc and certainly the hotels here. Many are short term visitors and I hardly think they will be spending the time to become proficient in Thai, before they arrive here. True enough, Malaysia and India enjoy some advantage in English, due to their former colonial status. But this is not the only explanation, after independence Malaysia let the importance of English slide, since it was considered a colonial hang-over. When I lived there 15 years ago, English proficiency was certainly not universal. Since then, the government has recognized the significance of English as a language of international importance and I found the level of English knowledge to be considerably more widespread. It is considered a badge of status in Malaysia and certainly Singapore, to have good English skills. This is definitely NOT the case in Thailand.

On a further note, if one was to take the time to look at the credentials for the proffessors and physicians of Sing. and Maylasia, one would be very surprised, a good portion of them are trained at western univ. While those in Thialand, could't even dream to go beyond the borders of Thailand due to their lack of English skills.

So the end result is an "in bred" education" with out the ability to read current research etc.

When I worked in KK university, my three Thai colleagues had been educated abroad. In fact, nearly all the ones I know( at least 50) were educated abroad.

My local family GP was educated in Scotland. My last GP was educated in USA. I have 5 doctor friends who were ALL educated abroad.

If one changed one's social circle, one might find some more English speakers.

My social circle is in the medical field.... so "poof" to that dream.

[Dakhar]

double post

Edited January 2, 2010 by Dakhar

[Neeranam]

My social circle is in the medical field.... so "poof" to that dream.

Actually, that was directed at the OP.

However, I used to teach Medical students and they ALL were excellent in English. pharmacy students, also, were extremely good, and many of them were going to my home town in Scotland(best unis in the world)to study their Masters.

In 15 years here, I've only ever met a couple of doctors who couldn't speak English.

You obviously can't work in a decent hospital - I'd say ALL the doctors at bamrungrad, samitivej , BNH were educated abroad.

All the doctors I've seen in Khon Kaen Ram were educated abroad.

You know some nurses do you?

Edited January 2, 2010 by Neeranam

[longstebe]

I would expect people in the major tourist destinations to speak it along with the bigger hotels around

Thailand. Living in Sakon Nakhon can sometimes be difficult but thats my problem.

Some expats choose not to learn the lingo, this baffles me. My Thai is far from perfect but I make an effort.

[yabaaaa]

On a wider front, English is the lingua franca of modern international business - not just the language needed to communicate with some grumpy old foreigner trying to buy whatever it is grumpy old foreigners buy, but also the language that international business contracts are written in and conducted with.

In that context Thailand does pretty poorly when it comes to speaking and working with this language of international business.

But let's focus on foreigners not learning Thai in the fine tradition of sticking one's head in the sand.

Isnt all "air traffic" communications in English too I mean for Pilots etc? I thought they were?

[IanForbes]

On a wider front, English is the lingua franca of modern international business - not just the language needed to communicate with some grumpy old foreigner trying to buy whatever it is grumpy old foreigners buy, but also the language that international business contracts are written in and conducted with.

In that context Thailand does pretty poorly when it comes to speaking and working with this language of international business.

I have to laugh and agree at the same time. Most tourists I meet in Thailand speak English (to some degree) even if it is not their native language. While on a boat to Koh Samet I met 3 Cockneys from the heart of London. I knew they were foreigners from the way they spoke, but it was 15 minutes before I realized they were speaking English... of a sort!

This has been an interesting discussion with a lot of valid points on all sides... including the funny ones. I'm fortunate to have come from an English speaking country (Canada). Just about everyone I've met from other countries seem to speak a little English, or at least enough to get by. I can't imagine how hard it must be to NEED to learn another language to survive in business and just maintain some sort of decent living.

I'm also hearing impaired which makes learning Thai very difficult. Maybe some day I'll need hearing aids, but so far I've been able to get along without them. I've TRIED learning Thai, but like others who don't REALLY need to learn it, I've found it difficult. I can speak enough Thai to get by... to be friendly, respectful and order what food I like, but being able to fluently speak the language and understand what others are saying is beyond what I really need to learn. I'm and old fart who only lives in Thailand for 5 months a year and I probably have a limited length of time before I won't be able to do this any longer. But, until that time comes I'm going to stumble along with a big smile on my face and struggle with the Thai language as best I can. Those Thais that know me seem to like me and that is all that matters. I have no problem laughing at myself or the jokes the Thais might have at my expense. It's all in good humour anyway.

[bonobo]

Why should the stores have english speakers? perhaps they should have german, russian, dutch etc as well.

Does your home country cater for all foreiners by having multi lingual staff om hand?

Learn Thai if you are going to live here.

Actually, in my home country, the smart businesses do.  In the border malls in San Diego and El Paso, there are plenty of Spanish-speakers poised to help Mexican shoppers.  In Hawaii, all malls and large stores (and many small stores such as golf shops) have Japanese and now Chinese speakers. In central Michigan, there are Arabic speakers at the malls.  In LA and New York, well, if you want to buy something and don't speak English, they will find someone who can speak your language and who can help extract the money in your wallet.

This has nothing to do with "language superiority."  I certainly do not expect to find English speakers all over Thailand.  I speak enough Thai to order food, fill up my car, etc., and that is really my responsibility as being here in the country.  And certainly, there is no requirement to have any employees who can speak English.  But if I had a hotel or store where any number of foreigners came to shop or stay, well, I would want at least one employee who could speak English (or maybe Russian in Pattaya).  Anything to make it easier for that visitor to spend baht.

And why English?  Well, the majority of foreigners who travel seem to have at least some degree of English ability.  You can't say the same for German, Spanish, Portuguese, Greek, Hebrew, etc.  So while I would love to have a French-speaking employee, it would be better to invest in an English-speaker all things being equal (with the exception of maybe Russian in Pattaya being a good investment, as well.)  And specific tourist venues can invest in language speakers of the main groups who come there, of course. 

[livinthailandos]

I want to put a few points in on this

a. Learning a language is a constant process you work on it through your entire life time

b. Tourism Industry - Group of Chinese / Korean High Chance The chinese will have a thai guide or guide with them / same goes for the koreans but lots of korean guides I deal with can speak english. Anyways for this industry English is at least required for now.

c. For you who complain that the thai's don't speak english how many of you ever took the time to learn their language after all your a guest in Thailand. Their language is Thai. Some of you may find the language hard but you make it hard by keeping a mind set that its to hard to learn.

d. Chinese as the language of the future - ok maybe so but go through on thai visa and find this post about the guys experience working and living in china for many years. Chinese will have to unify all their many languages to a national one after all from my understand China has many languages Mandarin being the highest then Cantonese then others. Chinese are opposite of thai's when it comes to speaking the language to you. You may mess up in thai and most thai's I believe realize your trying to learn the language so there ok. Try that with the chinese folk and they won't waste there time. You either speak Mandarin 100% or don't try to talk to me

[dumball]

'lioness' date='2010-01-02 06:41:48' post='3238504']

Why should the stores have english speakers? perhaps they should have german, russian, dutch etc as well.

Does your home country cater for all foreiners by having multi lingual staff om hand?

Learn Thai if you are going to live here.

In Canada , you can call a Bell operator and be spoken to in one of twenty eight languages , Of course , tourists are welcome and taken care of whilst there . In Niagara Falls , there are also specific tour buses for some language groups , many different languages are spoken in tourist areas , they want your return buisiness .

It took a certain high profile person 6 years to learn the intricases of his own language , how far does a tourist need to go to visit a country for a couple of weeks ?

[Neeranam]

In Canada , you can call a Bell operator and be spoken to in one of twenty eight languages , Of course , tourists are welcome and taken care of whilst there . In Niagara Falls , there are also specific tour buses for some language groups , many different languages are spoken in tourist areas , they want your return buisiness .

It took a certain high profile person 6 years to learn the intricases of his own language , how far does a tourist need to go to visit a country for a couple of weeks ?

They have to work harder than Thais to get tourists as it too bloody cold there. Also, I'm sure the Niagra Falls gets more visitors than Khon Kaen Robinsons.

Edited January 2, 2010 by Neeranam

[Dakhar]

My social circle is in the medical field.... so "poof" to that dream.

Actually, that was directed at the OP.

However, I used to teach Medical students and they ALL were excellent in English. pharmacy students, also, were extremely good, and many of them were going to my home town in Scotland(best unis in the world)to study their Masters.

In 15 years here, I've only ever met a couple of doctors who couldn't speak English.

You obviously can't work in a decent hospital - I'd say ALL the doctors at bamrungrad, samitivej , BNH were educated abroad.

All the doctors I've seen in Khon Kaen Ram were educated abroad.

You know some nurses do you?

I know some nurses, and physicians.

Sorry, but who ever you taught English to, if they went on to get a Masters degree, they are not Doctors.... if anything they are nurses. (The funny thingi s, doctors are required to have doctorate degrees.)

No I do not work at any of the suposed "high so" hospitals you mentioned or any hospital for that mater. The reasons are many, but rest asured, it is not due to my lack of qualifications. I hold the only Doctorate degree in the nation in my field of practice. In fact, I have turned down offers by some the hospitals you listed. Their offer would probably inspire a teacher, but for me the offer only inspired a giggle.

[jackspratt]

.............

You may mess up in thai and most thai's I believe realize your trying to learn the language so there ok. Try that with the chinese folk and they won't waste there time. You either speak Mandarin 100% or don't try to talk to me

That certainly wasn't my experience when I was living and working in China.

My "taxi Chinese" was generally sufficient, because about the only times I needed to speak Chinese (Mandarin) was when I was in a taxi. Otherwise, there were English speakers (of varying proficiency) everywhere, and always willing to help.

[Phil Conners]

Thai is not a world language. English is. It's not too much to expect that people in the hospitality industry worldwide can at least speak passable English.

No, I'm not English but spent too many years of my life learning to speak half a dozen languages already. If everybody could be bothered to learn just one language in addition to their own we could all communicate.

[JusMe]

I once went to a Car accessory shop in Bangkok to buy a cover for my Honda CRV. Standing by the covers I was approached by a sales man. He asked which car. I said Honda and then variations on the theme CRV, Honda CRV, showing the key etc. After 10 minutes of not understanding Honda (pronounced the English way) we had three staff there. Eventually the third guy had a brainwave and said, " Hon-DA". And the penny dropped!!!!

Its not like there are that many car makes commonly driven here and Honda sounded very similar to Hon- DA but unlike Mitshibushi, Toyota or Mazda. But those guys couldn't make the leap.

I now speak enough Thai to not have this hassle and I look back on it with a smile.

I think a significant problem here is being able to use the context of some word to guess a meaning. Even if the word is horribly mispronounced, if one can use contextual skills, meaning can be communicated.

However, Thais have very little or no contextual skills, at least that I've noticed. If the word is not perfectly pronounced, no matter the context, there is no communication. In English, I can mispronounce a word horribly, but the context will often aid communication.

Another example, similar to the Honda one: a long time back I was sitting in a street restaurant somewhere in Isan. I didn't expect English, so stumbled about with my very low food Thai. I was looking at the menu, I obviously wanted food, I pointed to an item, and apparently mispronounced it in Thai. The waiter immediately looked up and down the street, asking "Where?" The context was obviously food, but the word was perhaps something akin to firetruck. Hunh?

[mauGR1]

Yeah I was in a lift once and this old guy and his wife (who I assumed was Chinese-Thai) got in so I asked (in Thai) "Which floor?"

They started running on together in what I assumed was Mandarin.

Something along the lines of "What did whitey say?" from their facial expressions.

I can imagine them going back to Bejing and complaining on the local internet forum how the lift boy could not speak Mandarin

[a2396]

I have encountered the same non-existent English skills at almost 100% in places like Big C, Tesco, and the major hotels, with the exception of the Pullman

I encountered excellent English skills in the Kosa Hotel, Charoen Thani Princess, Khon Kaen Hotel, Sawdee Hotel, Khon Inn Hotel.

By your style of writing, I assume that you are not an native English speaker?

Sorry to disappoint you, but I am a native English speaker. Must be your luck is better than mine in these hotels, unless they have changed in the past couple of years. My experience: Chareon Thani - 1 staff (sometimes), Kosa - only the daytime manager, Sawadee - zero, Kaen Inn - zero. Busarakam - zero.

[Dakhar]

I once went to a Car accessory shop in Bangkok to buy a cover for my Honda CRV. Standing by the covers I was approached by a sales man. He asked which car. I said Honda and then variations on the theme CRV, Honda CRV, showing the key etc. After 10 minutes of not understanding Honda (pronounced the English way) we had three staff there. Eventually the third guy had a brainwave and said, " Hon-DA". And the penny dropped!!!!

Its not like there are that many car makes commonly driven here and Honda sounded very similar to Hon- DA but unlike Mitshibushi, Toyota or Mazda. But those guys couldn't make the leap.

I now speak enough Thai to not have this hassle and I look back on it with a smile.

I think a significant problem here is being able to use the context of some word to guess a meaning. Even if the word is horribly mispronounced, if one can use contextual skills, meaning can be communicated.

However, Thais have very little or no contextual skills, at least that I've noticed. If the word is not perfectly pronounced, no matter the context, there is no communication. In English, I can mispronounce a word horribly, but the context will often aid communication.

Another example, similar to the Honda one: a long time back I was sitting in a street restaurant somewhere in Isan. I didn't expect English, so stumbled about with my very low food Thai. I was looking at the menu, I obviously wanted food, I pointed to an item, and apparently mispronounced it in Thai. The waiter immediately looked up and down the street, asking "Where?" The context was obviously food, but the word was perhaps something akin to firetruck. Hunh?

Nahh, your waiter was just watching some of the better locak scenery walk by, we are all guilty at times....

[473geo]

I have encountered the same non-existent English skills at almost 100% in places like Big C, Tesco, and the major hotels, with the exception of the Pullman

I encountered excellent English skills in the Kosa Hotel, Charoen Thani Princess, Khon Kaen Hotel, Sawdee Hotel, Khon Inn Hotel.

By your style of writing, I assume that you are not an native English speaker?

Sorry to disappoint you, but I am a native English speaker. Must be your luck is better than mine in these hotels, unless they have changed in the past couple of years. My experience: Chareon Thani - 1 staff (sometimes), Kosa - only the daytime manager, Sawadee - zero, Kaen Inn - zero. Busarakam - zero.

Yes things are changing....maybe not fast enough for some!!!

I met a young lady who spoke near perfect English a few months ago....she made a point of coming over to talk to me at the local market...turns out ten years ago I had taken the time to help her with her English home work and speak a little English to her at her home, the local shop, and she wanted to learn......she graduated in English, last I heard was working in a Hotel in Surin.......

She could easily have taken a job as a translator and maybe will actually end up employed in a position her excellent skills deserve

only my experience of course.

[Neeranam]

My social circle is in the medical field.... so "poof" to that dream.

Actually, that was directed at the OP.

However, I used to teach Medical students and they ALL were excellent in English. pharmacy students, also, were extremely good, and many of them were going to my home town in Scotland(best unis in the world)to study their Masters.

In 15 years here, I've only ever met a couple of doctors who couldn't speak English.

You obviously can't work in a decent hospital - I'd say ALL the doctors at bamrungrad, samitivej , BNH were educated abroad.

All the doctors I've seen in Khon Kaen Ram were educated abroad.

You know some nurses do you?

I know some nurses, and physicians.

Sorry, but who ever you taught English to, if they went on to get a Masters degree, they are not Doctors.... if anything they are nurses. (The funny thingi s, doctors are required to have doctorate degrees.)

No I do not work at any of the suposed "high so" hospitals you mentioned or any hospital for that mater. The reasons are many, but rest asured, it is not due to my lack of qualifications. I hold the only Doctorate degree in the nation in my field of practice. In fact, I have turned down offers by some the hospitals you listed. Their offer would probably inspire a teacher, but for me the offer only inspired a giggle.

Ahh, so you're not a real doctor - just a PhD.

Anyone with any level of education should see that I mentioned 'pharmacy' students going for Masters.

Anyways, I have a close friend who is a real doctor who got a masters from Switzerland - something to do with Public Health/Pharmacology.

[Dakhar]

I have encountered the same non-existent English skills at almost 100% in places like Big C, Tesco, and the major hotels, with the exception of the Pullman

I encountered excellent English skills in the Kosa Hotel, Charoen Thani Princess, Khon Kaen Hotel, Sawdee Hotel, Khon Inn Hotel.

By your style of writing, I assume that you are not an native English speaker?

Sorry to disappoint you, but I am a native English speaker. Must be your luck is better than mine in these hotels, unless they have changed in the past couple of years. My experience: Chareon Thani - 1 staff (sometimes), Kosa - only the daytime manager, Sawadee - zero, Kaen Inn - zero. Busarakam - zero.

Yes things are changing....maybe not fast enough for some!!!

I met a young lady who spoke near perfect English a few months ago....she made a point of coming over to talk to me at the local market...turns out ten years ago I had taken the time to help her with her English home work and speak a little English to her at her home, the local shop, and she wanted to learn......she graduated in English, last I heard was working in a Hotel in Surin.......

She could easily have taken a job as a translator and maybe will actually end up employed in a position her excellent skills deserve

only my experience of course.

That is great to hear of a Thai understand the economic advantage for learning English. Sadly, many do not, while the tools to learn English are easily obtained.

Edited January 2, 2010 by Dakhar

[Neeranam]

Sorry to disappoint you, but I am a native English speaker. Must be your luck is better than mine in these hotels, unless they have changed in the past couple of years. My experience: Chareon Thani - 1 staff (sometimes), Kosa - only the daytime manager, Sawadee - zero, Kaen Inn - zero. Busarakam - zero.

Actually, there are two ex-students of mine that work in the Kosa - their English is good. I go to the Kosa a lot and must say the only guys that don't speak good English are the domestics.

Busarakham - you are right.

[Dakhar]

My social circle is in the medical field.... so "poof" to that dream.

Actually, that was directed at the OP.

However, I used to teach Medical students and they ALL were excellent in English. pharmacy students, also, were extremely good, and many of them were going to my home town in Scotland(best unis in the world)to study their Masters.

In 15 years here, I've only ever met a couple of doctors who couldn't speak English.

You obviously can't work in a decent hospital - I'd say ALL the doctors at bamrungrad, samitivej , BNH were educated abroad.

All the doctors I've seen in Khon Kaen Ram were educated abroad.

You know some nurses do you?

I know some nurses, and physicians.

Sorry, but who ever you taught English to, if they went on to get a Masters degree, they are not Doctors.... if anything they are nurses. (The funny thingi s, doctors are required to have doctorate degrees.)

No I do not work at any of the suposed "high so" hospitals you mentioned or any hospital for that mater. The reasons are many, but rest asured, it is not due to my lack of qualifications. I hold the only Doctorate degree in the nation in my field of practice. In fact, I have turned down offers by some the hospitals you listed. Their offer would probably inspire a teacher, but for me the offer only inspired a giggle.

Ahh, so you're not a real doctor - just a PhD.

Anyone with any level of education should see that I mentioned 'pharmacy' students going for Masters.

Anyways, I have a close friend who is a real doctor who got a masters from Switzerland - something to do with Public Health/Pharmacology.

No, I do not have a PhD. Yes, I know it is hard for you to wrap your mind around this.... but don't hurt your self. But if your friend is a "real doctor" with only a Masters degree, where I come from, he is yet to be a "doctor" as in a physician, nor is your friend considered to hold a doctorate degree. Scotland must have some pretty low standards, I guess.

[473geo]

on another slant........

How many Thai know how to say '<deleted> you'........

as opposed to

'Get lost'

'you are disgusting'

who would set the example??

[Neeranam]

No, I do not have a PhD. Yes, I know it is hard for you to wrap your mind around this.... but don't hurt your self. But if your friend is a "real doctor" with only a Masters degree, where I come from, he is yet to be a "doctor" as in a physician, nor is your friend considered to hold a doctorate degree. Scotland must have some pretty low standards, I guess.

My doctor friend studied for 11 years and is very well qualified. She has a masters degree ALSO is a physician.

Scotland is the best place in the world to study medicine, especially surgery.

Ever heard of Alexander fleming? Where was the world's first lady doctor from? A scottish trained doctor signed the Declaration of Independence?

Charles Darwin studied at Edinburgh.Archibald Pitcairne, James Syme, Sir James Young Simpson

We invented such things as penicillin, hypodermic needle, anaesthetic properties of chloroform, the first tuberculosis clinic in the world, electromagnetic, insulin, animal cloning, etc etc

What has your country given medicine? What is your country?

[mrtoad]

No, I do not have a PhD. Yes, I know it is hard for you to wrap your mind around this.... but don't hurt your self. But if your friend is a "real doctor" with only a Masters degree, where I come from, he is yet to be a "doctor" as in a physician, nor is your friend considered to hold a doctorate degree. Scotland must have some pretty low standards, I guess.

Actually, sorry to rain on your pissing contest with Neeranam, there are many Medical Doctors that also have Masters degrees. For example one Consultant Psychiatrist that I worked with as well as being an MD also had a Masters in Medical Ethics, another one that I worked with had a Masters in Law. I'm using the UK as examples, and one of those Consultants was trained in Scotland. As for the GP's again - similar experience that they often had a Masters in another field of interest as well. I guess, Doctors in the UK like to expand their fields of knowledge.

[Dakhar]

No, I do not have a PhD. Yes, I know it is hard for you to wrap your mind around this.... but don't hurt your self. But if your friend is a "real doctor" with only a Masters degree, where I come from, he is yet to be a "doctor" as in a physician, nor is your friend considered to hold a doctorate degree. Scotland must have some pretty low standards, I guess.

Actually, sorry to rain on your pissing contest with Neeranam, there are many Medical Doctors that also have Masters degrees. For example one Consultant Psychiatrist that I worked with as well as being an MD also had a Masters in Medical Ethics, another one that I worked with had a Masters in Law. I'm using the UK as examples, and one of those Consultants was trained in Scotland. As for the GP's again - similar experience that they often had a Masters in another field of interest as well. I guess, Doctors in the UK like to expand their fields of knowledge.

Sure an MD(physician) can have an MS/MA in area fields, but it is not the MA/MS that warants them the tittle of "Doctor" it is the doctorate degree that does so.

[Dakhar]

No, I do not have a PhD. Yes, I know it is hard for you to wrap your mind around this.... but don't hurt your self. But if your friend is a "real doctor" with only a Masters degree, where I come from, he is yet to be a "doctor" as in a physician, nor is your friend considered to hold a doctorate degree. Scotland must have some pretty low standards, I guess.

My doctor friend studied for 11 years and is very well qualified. She has a masters degree ALSO is a physician.

Scotland is the best place in the world to study medicine, especially surgery.

Ever heard of Alexander fleming? Where was the world's first lady doctor from? A scottish trained doctor signed the Declaration of Independence?

Charles Darwin studied at Edinburgh.Archibald Pitcairne, James Syme, Sir James Young Simpson

We invented such things as penicillin, hypodermic needle, anaesthetic properties of chloroform, the first tuberculosis clinic in the world, electromagnetic, insulin, animal cloning, etc etc

What has your country given medicine? What is your country?

You want to know what America has brought to the medical field?

I don't have the time to even begin a summary of that.

Scotland, the best place in the world to study medicine, news to me?

Edited January 2, 2010 by Dakhar