Welcome back bud!

[pnustedt]

Bud  who do you think you are at all??!? 

He's just a guy who believes he is entitled to life, liberty and the happiness of pursuit! In other words a Bachelor . . .

[Begs]

You think you know so much about us Thai women just by spending a few weeks/months (whatever) with some girls you hook up over the net?  met in the bars?  picked up in restaurants/department stores/the street????!!  Or by reading some books!!?? 

It's all a load of rubbish as well that successful/nice/modern/independent Thai women don't date westerners.  Obviously, not ALL of them will be scrambling for one.  Why should they? 

DB80, you should not really take any notice of Bud, he is some kind of Star in this forum, ...... .? Yea, i dont know why either...............but he is...

And yes it is certainly possible to meet successful modern Thai women, i went out with a Thai woman, late 20's, very successful in Family business, Thai chinese, i would go to Bkk by bus , she would pick me up in Her Toyota Camry or the CRV, she has travelled to Europe, NZ, Japan, her sister is in Denver University studying for masters, she showed me a side of Bkk that i had not seen before, a very nice person, happens to be rich also. Even met some of the family........

Now, this girl actually fell in love with me, dont ask me why, how, whatever...it happened,.......... we never slept together,........ nothing..it just happens. So to all that think it is impossible.................it is not.

BUT....

Maybe i am scared of too much commitment, and maybe i am too selfish to want to have any more kids....eventually i let it go, i suggested we remain friends, and there is a good reason for that.............I lived in Pattaya for nearly 13 years....i KNOW what i am like, i am weak... We was in Central rama 3....a cute Isaan girl walked by and i knew that i found her attractive, she was in no way classy, i was with a classy person, But, my eye still followed that isaan girl.......... So i knew that our relationship would eventually fail, or she would eventually be upset by my actions....and that is not fair to her...she deserves better than that.

So..........

It certainly is possible to meet people of all social backgrounds.

And now............i have an Isaan Girlfriend again.............. It's my choice,.............. my friends told me i was crazy cos the Bkk Girl was rich, well.....maybe i am ...but i dont care about money......i have money...and i never wanted to hurt her feelings (and maybe the family would have had me shot if i did!)....But i guess it takes all sorts of people to make up our complex world...i am just one of them...and.....Bud is another.

[D80]

Sorry guys, I am not trying to insults women from other backgrounds. I do not think, however, that Bud's view is fair on Thailand or Thai women in general.

In fact, I find the sort of generalisation extremely patronising, let alone other sweeping statements that are a load of rubbish.

Perhaps it's a common view held by most foreigners who live in Thailand. In that case, I now understand a lot better the attitudes some Thais have towards foreigners there.

I come to this board because I am interested in what/how foreigners who live in Thailand think of Thailand. My husband and I may move there soon. Well, I don't think the majority of this board's view is representative of all foreigners in Thailand. At least I hope not. Having said that, I've met so many nice people on this board as well.

Begs,

if you love someone, then you love him/her. It doesn't matter if she is a rich BKK girl or an Isaan lady. If you are not in love with your BKK girl, then it's only normal that things didn't work out between the two of you. I've never said that Isaan people are inferior at all. They are just human like you and me. I have friends from Isaan as well as from other parts of Thailand/the world. I give respect to people according to their actions, not thier birthplace/family background.

My point is 'instant love' is not likely to just happen. It sickens me that Thai women are now seen as some sort of a commodity that rich foreigners can just pick up. 'Come to Thailand and stay a while for the sole purpose of getting one of them'?? Gosh, that sounds like an invitation to do some christmas shopping to me! What is worse than that is these people just strut into my country and just sprout crappy stuff about the Thais and Thailand after seeing just ONE area of the society. I can take criticism about Thailand. What I can't stand is generalisation. And yes, the world IS complex and that is why so much generalisation about the women/people in Thailand around here annoy me.

It seems to me that whenever I suggest any other views about Thai women (ie some are hard working, loyal, independent, intelligent), they just get dismissed as 'westernised' or 'rare' or 'out of reach of farang-only the higher class Thais are like that' (well, I agree that they would be out of reach of some farang who just want 'instant love'). But if someone start going on about Thai women as lying, backstabbing vicious bloodsuckers who are just lazy, unintelligent, ungrateful 'little things', then those characters are readily accepted as uniquely Thai. I'm not talking about just this post, I'm talking about from what I have seen in the board.

I'm sorry but perhaps I am the only one who sees 'I am a westerner, I am superior, I have the right to patronise all the little Thais' oozing out of that post. I guess I should take no notice of it as it seems to have become the norm. Maybe I shall learn to know my place from now on (although I doubt it).

pnustedt,

I think you mean 'life, liberty and pursuit of happiness' (pursuit of happiness actually means 'property', so I guess in that case it suits some people's view towards Thai women perfectly)? I know you probably meant it as a joke when you said 'happiness of pursuit'. I suppose being a red-blooded American male with money and having stayed in some village for 3 weeks does give someone a right to be the expert, the mr-know-it-all, on Thai women, Thailand and the Thais in general in some people's eyes.

I don't really want to go through Bud's post and pick out these different points. I really can't be bother. As I said, my arguments will only be set aside as 'westernised' as before.

[chonabot]

Bud doesn't really mean it , but it's wound a few people up , that's a good and bad thing in my book. Kathe you seem to generalise also , not all bar girls are "poor mosquitoes". Wake up everyone , it's just a wind up , enjoy!

[dr_Pat_Pong]

D80 don't take Bud seriously ( nobody does ) Most think ole Buddy is full of sh*t and mercillessly takes the p*ss out of any and every one that will listen to him

[BudZumwalt]

To Kathe and D-80,

What is with the both of you Thai ladies, you actually think that because you don't have to bed with a farang or even a Thai guy for a while until you feel it is the righteous moment that makes you classy? The up standing perfect moral middle class, respectable lady and above the bar girl and email queens? Well, excuse me but being boring is not going to give you both any more class, just less dates, less fun in life and guys who drop you both off and then head out to the nearest bar to get what they need in life, a good evening of feeling connected and enjoying life to the fullest. I certainly hope I never run into either of you. However, I respect the moral attitudes you portray, the up standing class you think you have, the girl next door who anyone would be proud to bring home to Mama, that is not Mamasun, I mean your family. For someone seeking to live life of commitment to one lady and unite in marriage for better or worst, that is fine, but some of us realize we have eyes that wonder, a need to try out this one and that one, and you know Thailand is all about being single and making the rounds. Really even the local Thai guys have reputations with the ladies, lots of ladies, lots of wives, so maybe this is not the majority, but it is a very high percentage.

To Dr. P.P.

Really siding with these two bible prayer ladies, you should be ashamed, look at your name PatPong, the Ladyboy Capital of the red light districts, and I am sure you kind of get your share, so why side with these classy bores. I am so up right because I never would have sex after picking up a farang at the airport and my email does not include meeting guys. Wow, are we so exciting...Kath and D80, tell me D80 what do you and your husband do at night? I know TV is so exciting.

Bud

Bud

[pnustedt]

I think you mean 'life, liberty and pursuit of happiness'

No I do mean "life, liberty and happiness of pursuit". Bud is having great fun pursuing his "perfect" mate and we (well a large number of us) are having fun reading about it.

It can only openly be done by a bachelor and many men are quite envious of his freedom to do so. Many married women feel threatened by this sort of behaviour but it's not unique to this board - it happens in bars the world over, after all, this is "Farang Pub"!

Sorry about the generalisations

[Thetyim]

Erhhh, we seem to have two Buds on the forum now.

One logged on as Bud Zumwalt with 180 postings and another logged on as BudZumwalt with 23 postings.

Will the real Bud please stand up, or is this just a clever excuse to keep double posting ?

[BudZumwalt]

I forgot my log on pass word. So I got a new pass word and logged on again.

I is me.

Bud

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Buddy might be ill. Schizophrenia maybe ? Two of 'em would be too much to bear

[BudZumwalt]

OH, so you are a pychologist. Actually the diagnosis is multiple personality.

Bud

[D80]

Pnustedt,

Thanks for the clarification. I don't feel threaten by that sort of behaviour as it does not effect me whatsoever. My issue was on something else. You may understand it better if you read my post below.

Bud,

I am far from being what you are accusing me to be. My personal life is my own and I only share it with people I respect. I don't need to convince myself that my life is 'o-so-interesting' therefore the need to advertise here deosn't arise.

I am not looking down on ladies from different backgrounds than me. I have friends from all background at home. I admit that I am middleclass if one wants to put a label on it. I am not going to apologise for being what I am, especially as I have never think of myself as superior than others. I have made it clear in this topic and in any other relevant postings on this board that I consider the ladies in question as human as anybody else and I would treat them with respect if I come into contact with them. What they do is their choice and it doesn't make them inferior to those who choose differently. This point is what I have made time and time again.

What I object to is some foreigner who thinks he knows all about Thailand and its people, particularly Thai women, then proceed to sprout some totally bias cr*p about the country just because he happens to be in the country for 3 weeks! Living like a Thai?! Ha! You only lived like a Thai with some dollars, that's what it was! Your points in the post reflect just ONE area of the society that you have seen, yet you keep going on about how Thai ladies are like and how Thailand works and how Thai people actually live! Wow, what a genius you are to be able to figure out the whole country within the matter of 21 days!!

It's not ME who is being mother superior. It is YOU who reeks of 'I am a westerner, I know everything. I am soooo high above the Thais that I can patronise, generalise or even choose to save 'all the little silly Thais' if I want to' bull cr*p!

I couldn't care less if foreigners want to come here and go out with Thai women, have sex with consenting adults, find a relationships, whatever. Or if Thai women would choose to do whatever they want to do with you guys. It's their lives. I do not have anything against these women AT ALL.

What gets me is this : lots of people here talk about Thai women as if they are something to be picked from a supermarket shelf. If I dare to suggest that there are Thai women who are anything more than 'unintelligent, lazy bloodsuckers' then I get called 'westernised, boring and self-righteous' or I get accused of 'trying to be superior' or 'insulting the women'.

I'm sorry that I find some of the posts regarding Thai women as a generic term being 'stupid, lazy, dishonest blah blah blah' highly offensive. But believe it or not, being a Thai women who still have friends/families living in Thailand, knowing that such generalisation is far from the truth, it is a teeny weeny bit insulting. Perhaps it is the norm among some people as I have said before. In that case, as I have also said before, I now understand why some Thais have such bad attitudes towards some foreigners.

Indeed, this is farang pub and I'm glad some of you guys are having a lot of fun. But is it not possible to show some small amount of respect?!? It seems the attitude favoured by some farangs is 'this is my money, take it in exchange for me doing whatever the ###### I want, and shut up'. And they wonder why they never get respect in Thailand. If that's all they want - to be able to do whatever the h&^* they want in exchange for their money, they shouldn't complain when people do take their money in exchange for putting up with them.

And that is my other point, if you dine from the rubbish tip, don't complian if you get food poisoning. If you come here with the attitude that your money buys you love/respect and the rest of it, don't complain if someone actually does take your money for what they think it's worth. If you want someone who will love/respect you for who you are and not for your money and superficial thing, then they may not likely to service you with quick and easy sex as soon as you flash your dough; and you may have to try harder & treat them with the respect that they deserve since money won't buy love/respect off them. If you don't want to do that and opt for the easy option, then go ahead. But don't come generalising about how it is the way of the world in Thailand or complaining about people taking your money when you are offering it in exchange of your 'instant love'.

Bud, you asked: what is it with you Thai ladies?

I answer: I am sick of people like you generalising about us Thai women as some sort of commodity, some sort of stupid, lazy creature to be saved by your big bucks. And the generalistaion of Thai people and Thailand in general. If you're only going to see the whole country through this type of attitudes, then it's best that you stick with your email ladies and bargirls as you have done before. The rest of the Thai society will be wasted on you as you can only see your own generalisation.

Here, I'll spell it out for you. Don't miss the point next time you reply.

I AM NOT TRYING TO INSULT ANY THAI LADIES YOU WERE WITH WHATSOEVER. WHAT I OBJECT TO IS THE CRAPPY/UNFAIR GENERALISATIONS OF THAI WOMEN/MEN AND THAILAND FROM YOU, A 3 WEEK TOURIST.

Get it?

Apology from me to the board if I spoil the fun. I'm only expressing a Thai woman's view towards what I find insulting.

I will try to take Dr_pat_pong's advice from now on. I can see the cost of speaking out against such an issue is just not worth the effort. Dr_pat_pong is right about his comment in 'Racism in Thailand' topic. And I should start seeing Bud's post for what is actually is.

Chonabot, I agree with you.

[chonabot]

I'm still not sure whether Bud Zumwalt and BudZumwalt (space/nospace)

are the same user/person. The "without space" ie recent poster/user is boring.

Not even thought provoking are these posts.

In fact I will copy this to a new post , yes that what I'll do.

everyone please add your input.

D80 I agree the latest Bud posts are insulting to Thai Ladies to say the least.

In fact I would like to kick the new Bud's ass...

[Nat]

OH, so you are a pychologist. Actually the diagnosis is multiple personality.

Bud

Actually the diagnosis would be Dissociative Disorder. Multiple Personality Disorder is just one type, but has now been renamed in the DSM-IV to Dissociative Identity Disorder

Hmmm....am suspicious whether this really is Bud or perhaps someone who’s visited the funny farm one too many times

[SoCal]

Apparently when Bud got laid in BKK, the blood never returned to the thinking head.

He has been a bit "cocky" since his return.

Great to feel like god's gift, but time to rejoin us in reality.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

The new Bud ain't gonna last here too long. He is too much over the top in everything.

[Nat]

You're right dr - he really needs a personality makeover

[pnustedt]

that sort of behaviour as it does not effect me whatsoever. 

It obviously does - and understandably so.

I suspect Bud's behaviour was not as objectionable as his postings - let'shope so.

[SoCal]

Doc, for some reason I always come to his aid when it's time for his a** kicking. It's true. Go back to when he was a newbie, and everybody wanted him off.

Let's be honest, we have all seen his picture from his web site. From all appearances this guy had the good fortune to get laid, and though it defies all sanity it appears as though multiple times. Of course he's going to be full of himself. It'll wear off, but unfortunately for us it may be several months.

Speaking of which, can the good doctor hook me up with some zanex? I think I'm gonna need it.

[Nat]

SoCal if this really is Bud, his use of language and grammar has undergone a massive change in a short period of time - it just doesn't smell right

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Zanex for you Viagra for both Buds.

[BudZumwalt]

Socal,

Go to my web site, review my photos on the resume page ...

www.zgramyachtdeliveries.com

Now tell me bro, wheres your photos.

I am sorry if I offended anyone, Bud has been a bad boy, the Kingdom of Joy did it too him, he ran wild screwing everything in site, even a few soi dogs, then the beautiful rental wivies from his free web site, then onto the "Ladyboys", from there he upgrade his loves to the goats outside of Korat in the villages of the rurual farm areas, then onto the sisters, both of em. After all that he returned to civilization, America land of the free, streets paved with gold, sun and fun in the Palm Beaches, now just what kind of nice guy do you think Bud will be after all that PTSD. even his ex-wife pyschiatrist can't him.

If your really Bud's friends you'll help him back to the guy he used to be. Show some understanding. Fix him up with D80 and Kathe......LOL

Bud

[Orthelius]

Once again the subject of women in Thailand (and Bud) riles the masses. While I will never apologize for spending my money in any way I ###### well please, I do agree wholeheartedly with D80 when she says that in no way can we know someone or their culture or country from a few short visits spent mainly with our pants down and our wallets open.

Respect for human beings should be paramount in anything we do. The world is a big wacky place and what one chooses to do for a living is just that, a personal choice. People are all unique, and as such, should be afforded the depth of their humanity. Conditions, spake the Marxist, go a long way in forming behavior.

I have met some wonderful women in massage shops, and I have met some not so wonderful women in massage shops. I have met their husbands and children. I have met their friends who did not work in the business, sisters who sewed piecework in their apartments, mothers who spun silk at the family home in the village, fathers who grow a small amount of rice and other crops to feed the family back home.

I have met women who owned small businesses such as laundries or guest houses or massage shops or noodle shops. Women who worked in department stores, malls or waited tables or hawked food at the beach.

I have met some amazingly funny, profane and philosophical men who drive taxis or wait tables or hawk souvenirs or tout nudy bars or build stone walls or are cops (one the brother of a massage shop woman from Isaan) or do any of the myriad things that Thai men do to make a living in a rugged economy. I have also met some lowlife drunks who would just as soon slit your throat as share a laugh. Most, not all, are very happy to talk about their families and jobs and their love of Thailand and life in general.

One generalization I WILL make is that almost every Thai person I have met (and admittedly I have not spent any time in "upper" society) is hardworking, industrious and has an outlook on life that allows for many viewpoints as to what "Life" is all about. Nothing is more annoying than the phrase "lazy Thai woman/man". I have yet to meet one.

I don't claim to be Mr. Sensitive Guy. I have patronized women (3 to be exact, in four separate visits to the LOS totalling four months) in the Thai sex industry, and I thank them for being there for me. I have also (quite politely) quizzed them unmercifully about their lives. I am part of the problem.

At the same time I also express my sincere thanks to those women I did not patronize (the lion's share of those I have met) who also are willing to talk with a curious man about their lives and loves and hopes and dreams. Do they bullshit me? ###### yes, many of them do and don't understand why a prospective john is asking so ###### many questions. The vast majority, however, are willing to speak in a very frank manner about their lives.

I have met the same spectrum of people in the USA and Mexico. People are sometimes good, sometimes bad, and quite often times so incredibly kind and generous and wonderful that you would be hard pressed not to nominate them for sainthood.

My conclusion, if I have one, is that it is impossible to know a people without trying to know a people. I'm just one slimy guy trying to figure out the world I live in and hoping to have some fun and laughter along the way.

As an American hero, Rodney King, friend of the Los Angeles police department and lightning rod for rioting and looting, once said, "Can't we all just get along?"

[pnustedt]

Go to my web site, review my photos

Shiver me timbers Bud. You look like a million dollars - all green and wrinkled!

p.s. why do you keep referring to yourself in the third person - if you are the real Bud that is?

[TizMe]

Have a look at Bud's Profile.

His interests include "Showing Everyone what a <deleted> I am"

[dr_Pat_Pong]

An area of true expertise I'd say, and well supported by D80 and Kathe. He seems to be admitting more than a passing fancy for ladyboys too. Doubles the field.

[California Dave]

almost every Thai person I have met (and admittedly I have not spent any time in "upper" society) is hardworking, industrious

I have patronized women (3 to be exact, in four separate visits to the LOS totalling four months) in the Thai sex industry

While I agree with your desire as a tourist to have fun, you need very urgently to be aware that waiting around all day/night to be fukced by a total stranger who more often than not reeks of beer and cigarettes is most definitely not representative of the hardworking and industrious nature to which you refer.

[BudZumwalt]

Bud has asked me to fill in every so often, while he has gone out to sea. He certainly has been so sweet since his return from Thailand. It seems the Thai ladies he met were very polite, beautiful, understanding, up town ish, had the highest morals, ethics above board. He noted Thailand has changed, the country had nothing going on other than a solid tourist environment, rumors of sex and red light districts are just rumors, it is no longer like that. The country is above board and so aren't the wonderful ladies. Highest morals he has ever seen. It said much of this was due to the effort of a few women named Kathe and M80. He always mentions them as the angles of Bangkok, with them on this forum the city was saved from sin. Bud now attends bible study classes each night when not at sea, church on a regular basis, he claims he learned this newer higher level and standard of moral living while staying with two Buddhist sisters in or around the outside of Korat. Bud is so sweet and so changed, it is like a dream come true.

Savitri Lall

www.zgramyachtdeliveries.com

[Orthelius]

Cal Dave, again I respond to an intelligent post by yourself.

"..waiting around all day/night to be fukced by a total stranger..."

I admit to an ignorance of the bar scene. I don't smoke or drink so I do not go to bars. All of the women I have met in the Thai sex industry work in massage shops. I know this is a thin line to draw, but when they are not wacking off a customer on the second floor they still must give foot and Thai massages to a large number of people in any given day. They are in the shop for twelve to fourteen hours a day, 28-29 days a month.

Is it easy to be hooker? No I don't think so, unless one only looks at it from the physical standpoint of lying still for about five minutes so a stranger can get his rocks off and hopefully pay you what you are worth and not beat the shti out of you for his demented fun. The mental toll is enormous and is a choice these women must live with every minute of every day of their lives.

Long hours are long hours, no matter how one spends them. I also qualified my statement "... ALMOST all..." And I do feel that it is industrious to use what one has at one's disposal to make ends meet. If that is your body, so be it. I'm not so naive as to think that any woman I have paid to have sex "loves" me. I am also not so crass as to think that just because a woman or man sells sex for a living that they are somehow an object of contempt or should be subject to scathing judgment.

I also don't think I made the point that the women who work in the sex industry are representative of society as a whole. They are merely representative of themselves, much like you and I do not represent all the people of the USA. My point was that it is necessary to meet as many people as possible and attempt to get under their skin and in their heads before a conclusion can be drawn. I have lived in the USA for all my life and still can't figure out what makes us tick, let alone the Thais. I hope this clarifies my (non-missionary) position a little more. I am not an expert on Thais or Thai culture, nor do I profess to be. Merely trying to learn.

[SoCal]

Hey Bud, latest pictures much better. Old one scared the h*ll out of me. Used to have nightmares.

Hey, I have always defended you for at least being interesting if nothing else.

Will have to back my fellows however that you are too full of yourself and condescending since your trip.

Give you an eye opener, being a male chauvenist pig in and of itself is not all that appealing, nor fun to read.

Go back to old Bud.