Thai Marrying Thai - Contract?

[midasthailand]

I have a Thai friend (female) that came to me last night in tears because her mother and father have to find 120,000 Baht and six baht of gold for their sons marriage to a Thai girl. She explained to me that her brother was contracted to marry this girl but he (and the family) no longer wanted the marriage to happen.

I just said that they should cancel the marriage but she told me that the money and gold were negotiated some time ago and that both sets of parents had signed a contract and if her brother did not marry the girl then the girls family could take them to court and they would have to pay double the amount of money and gold.

I have lived and worked here for some time now and speak, read and write Thai quite fluently (level 4) and I thought I understood Thai culture pretty well? It needs to be said here that my friend was not asking me for money to help her family out, I am not her boyfriend or benefactor, we are friends of long standing and I have met her Isaan family and visited their home and farm. She has very few real friends and came to visit me on an unrelated matter but broke down in tears after her mother called her about this marriage.

I would like some input from TV members. We have all heard of Sin Sod and there have been countless threads about it, but I have never heard of a marriage contract enforceable under Thai law? Please advise ?

[PattayaParent]

Sounds no different than UK or US law.

[midasthailand]

In the UK/US do they sign contracts prior to marriage setting the cost of dowry (Sin Sod) ? If you leave the bride or groom standing at the altar can your parents be taken to court?

[Mobi]

I don't usually get involved inn these kind of threads, and I may be way out of line, but this sounds to me like total BS.

These days I am a cynical bastard, and my guess is that this lady, GF or not, has dreamt up this story to elicit your sympathy and try to extricate some money from you. Or she just is just trying to help her brother come up with the money.

I have never heard of a legal contract being signed for payment of sinsod, and certainly the whole idea of the court making the family pay double upon default sounds too fanciful to be true.

Sinsods are a "gentlemen's agreement" between families,. and if it is not forthcoming then the marriage is cancelled - it as simple as that.

But I may be completely wrong......

[givenall]

Sounds no different than UK or US law.

If this is a serious contract and binding then, I would think like any other contract if they default then they may need to renegotiate especially when they can’t pay the agreed amount. I would say renegotiate and get out of the contract.

[Mario2008]

Under Thai family law, one cannot make a provision in the betrothal contract to pay a fine in case one decides not to marry. Any such provision is void, as the law want to avoid that people will marry against their will.

That is not to say that there can't be cause for compensation, but a provision to pay a fine is void.

read sections 1438,1439 and 1440 of book V (family law) of the Thai civil code:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/redirect.php...20code%2520.pdf

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[Farma]

The first I heard about something like this was mid last year.

A young lad in the village had gotten himself engaged with a girl from a nearby city. Sinsot was all arranged with a wedding date set for sometime this year. They lived as a couple for a few months before he decided he liked a different girl and broke off the engagement.

The dumped girl’s family was all upset and wanted compensation for their daughter losing her honour. The lad’s parents were worried for a while as the dumped girls parents were taking them to court over it.

It took about 2 weeks before out of court compensation was agreed between the 2 families and things calmed down.

[Mario2008]

That will be the normal thing. Loss of face is an big issue, and the payment of compensation will be important to mitigate that. They should start negotiations about compensation, knowing that double of what is agreed is against the law.

[a2396]

Personally, I would not touch marriage to anyone with a ten foot pole. Been there, done that - twice. Promising preconditions in a contract? UNBELIEVABLE !!

[Dakhar]

wow,..... learn something new every day!

I forget what state it is, but there is an archaic law in a particular state that if you dump a fiance, she gets a load of dosh.

I remember watching a case about this in the US were a rich guy dumped his gold digging girl friend.... and she still got to keep the gold.

[anchan42]

I have heard of this once in a big while. Even read it in Thai papers couple times so I guessed it could happen.

From what I heard, official public engagement ceremony is as good as paper contract in court.

Thais usually settle these kinds of things outside the court room.

Her family should start talking to the girl family.

In the mean time, contact a lawyer and ask where her family stands in a case like this. Doubling the amount is unheard of.

[midasthailand]

Mobi, your response was pretty much exactly what I thought myself, which is why I turned to this forum for some information. I figured that if it was commonplace then some members would have had some exposure to it. It does seem from the responses so far that the concept is alive and well in some places but that the idea of going to court and paying double is not the norm. BTW, this young lady knows that I am not a soft touch and would have been well aware that there would be no money forthcoming from this little black duck!

[midasthailand]

Under Thai family law, one cannot make a provision in the betrothal contract to pay a fine in case one decides not to marry. Any such provision is void, as the law want to avoid that people will marry against their will.

That is not to say that there can't be cause for compensation, but a provision to pay a fine is void.

read sections 1438,1439 and 1440 of book V (family law) of the Thai civil code:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/redirect.php...20code%2520.pdf

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Mario,

thank you for posting that link, makes for interesting reading and certainly indicates that there is definitely compensation to be paid if one of the betrothed parties reneges on the deal.

[PattayaParent]

In the UK/US do they sign contracts prior to marriage setting the cost of dowry (Sin Sod) ? If you leave the bride or groom standing at the altar can your parents be taken to court?

No, not your parents, YOU could be taken to court.

[WarpSpeed]

^ Only if she was left holding numerous prepaid deposits and such those are recoverable and rightly so as would be the case but not for actually backing out of the wedding with plenty of advance notice.. There's no "face" involved...

[Boo]

quite normal in more traditional families afaik. My husbands niece had been allowed (without grannys knowledge) to stay at the home of her bf (she was in KK at boarding school at the time & school also failed to mention that she wasn't sleeping at the arranged accommodation either) When granny found out she pulled the girl out of school & sent word to this family that they were to make amends. A month later they came on grovelling knees with 40k baht compensation & the relationship was dissolved.

I can't say I agree with it bu maybe it will make this boys family think twice about allowing a 16 year old girl to stay with them without her families knowledge or permission.

I also know of another family who pledged a sin sot for a marriage that never took place due to the man backing out, the woman still received the sin sot without question or argument as a way to appease her loss of face.

[astral]

A properly witnessed contract is enforceable in Thailand, just as in most other countries.

I do not see marriage being any different.

I have never come across such matters being written down, but there you go.

Unwritten, well as some famous person said, "it is not worth the paper it is written on."