Is This The Oldest Printed Book In Thailand?

[isanbirder]

The other day I was talking about books with some friends, and I showed them a small book printed in 1513.... almost 500 years old! It's hardly your everyday reading, a Latin commentary on the Psalms by Cardinal Juan Torquemada, uncle of the Grand Inquisitor of that name, printed in Venice. Just a little bit of history! Does anyone know of an older printed book located anywhere in Thailand? (NOT, of course, a book printed in Thailand, as the earliest would, I suspect, be early 17th Century.

It is, by the way, not particularly valuable!

[Andrew Hicks]

Every thread deserves a response.

In fact I think he first printing press was imported into Thailand in the reign of King Chulalongkorn.

I have a copy of 'A Woman of Bangkok' by Jack Reynolds publishd fifty years ago.

Can anyone beat that!

Andrew

[orchis]

Some of the earliest Western books in Thailand were printed in 1841 by the Mission Press in Bangkok,

e.g Siamese Languages by J. Taylor Jones

(See Christie's Sale 9991 The Treasue of Siam Bangkok Aug 7 1999 cat # 64 p.29 estmate 120 000 t0 180 000 thb)

[t.s]

did you guys even read the op? it was pretty specific.

[h90]

Some of the earliest Western books in Thailand were printed in 1841 by the Mission Press in Bangkok,

e.g Siamese Languages by J. Taylor Jones

(See Christie's Sale 9991 The Treasue of Siam Bangkok Aug 7 1999 cat # 64 p.29 estmate 120 000 t0 180 000 thb)

1841 that isn't old.....

[h90]

Isaanbirder: You wrote: "It is, by the way, not particularly valuable!"

I doubt that!

Are you sure??? at 500 years I would think that it is valuable...

[ProfessorFart]

Hmmm! The first printing press in Thailand didn't appear until the 1850s.

The above mentioned book was actually printed in Singapore and introduced into Thailand by missionairies.

The first press was introduced and utilised by King Mongkut after his coronation in 1851, however this press dealt mainly in Pali scripts and other courtly material.

The first Western style Press was introuduced by James Bradley, a missionary, whom also had the ear of the court, and granted him permission to produce Christian literature in Thai as long as the Court could also utilise the press for ther own means and produce literature for educational purposes fr the children of the Court before they were shipped off to Oxford.

The oldest Thai 'novel' should it even exist is called 'Non Vendetta' which was a parody of Marie Corelli's massively popular 'Vendatta' novel.

If anyone has a copy, PM me and I'll stand them a beer.......

Edited January 10, 2010 by ProfessorFart

[isanbirder]

Most of these posts do not relate to my original post. But, for printing in Thailand, I had guessed (without any actual knowledge) that the Catholic missions in the time of King Narai would have introduced printing for religious purposes.

As for my 500-year-old book being valuable, the last auction estimate I saw for this particular edition was US$200. Mine lacks the first folio, so you can cut that value down to about US$50. Not that I would accept that for it!

[Ijustwannateach]

I have visited some friends' homes with some pretty dense and impressive bookshelves; wouldn't be surprised if there were a few old ones out there- but nothing I know specifically from the 16th century...

I would suspect there are some old-money types around with deep pockets and huge libraries among the Thais, as well.

[LaoPo]

To the OP:

I showed them a small book printed in 1513.... almost 500 years old!

If you indeed have such a book (and not a reprint-copy) I would strongly advise you to have it vacuum sealed immediately as the book will vanish very quickly overtime in the humidity!

Beware, as in time, the paper pages are very vulnerable, will fall to pieces and it will happen sooner than you think.

edit:

If you're short for cash,you can always sell it, although this copy was: Printed in Mainz, by Peter Schoeffer, 4 April 1478. Price $ 17,500.00

http://www.lux-et-umbra.com/catalogue-book-schoeffer1478.htm

I wouldn't leave that book just on a shelf in Thailand; too humid.

LaoPo

Edited January 11, 2010 by LaoPo

[Xangsamhua]

I wonder how and why the book came to Thailand. Cardinal Juan Torquemada was a 15th century prelate. The book (1513) was published some 45 years after his death. The first Catholic missionaries sent by Rome to Thailand arrived in 1554, though their primary task was to minister to the Catholic community already in Ayudhaya rather than seek converts among the Siamese.

Incidentally, despite his nephew Tomas the Inquistor's callous persecution of Jews in Spain, Juan defended the conversos (Jews or Muslims who had converted to the Church) from persecution by conservative Catholics.

[isanbirder]

If it was that valuable, I would have sold it long ago!

How did it come to Thailand? In my baggage! I bought it as a student in Cambridge many years ago, and have kept it with me ever since.

The paper is in better condition than many books 10 years old. I gather the Smithsonian is having major problems because late 19th century books all have acid in the paper, and they are crumbling... and there isn't the money to conserve them. 15th century paper lasts better!

Nice to know more about the author. The printer, Lazarus de Soardis, also deserves to be better known; he was one of a group experimenting with new fonts to replace the old black-letter. This book is in one of them.

[Meridian007]

I'd love to see some scans from it! I find it hard to believe that it could be valued at only $200. I would gladly pay that for a book that old! The oldest I have is a leatherbacked copy of the Bhagavad Gita from the late 19th century. It still has some uncut pages, and is in mint condition. I payed $50 for it in Canada about 20 years ago.

[Xangsamhua]

Very interesting, Isanbirder. Thank you. From Venice to Cambridge to Northeastern Thailand over a 500 year period. If the book had a voice I'm sure it could tell some interesting stories of where it's been, who has owned it and what has happened to it and them.

[isanbirder]

I'd love to see some scans from it! I find it hard to believe that it could be valued at only $200. I would gladly pay that for a book that old! The oldest I have is a leatherbacked copy of the Bhagavad Gita from the late 19th century. It still has some uncut pages, and is in mint condition. I payed $50 for it in Canada about 20 years ago.

When I was a boy in the late '40s and '50s, I used to haunt the local bookshops, especially the sixpenny shelves outside. Eighteenth century books for sixpence were fairly common; the earliest I got that way (for 6d.!) was a 1615 Pliny's Natural History. (Also a Byron First Edition dated, if I remember, 1816) I wish I still had those, as they would be worth a lot more than the Torquemada. 16th century classical texts were available for a few shillings inside the shops, and I still retain a few of those. Being a classicist, I can read the ones in Latin; the typeface of 16th and 17th century Greek books is virtually unintelligible unless you have special knowledge of typefaces. The Torquemada cost GBP1, which was a lot of money for me in 1960, which is probably the year I bought it. I did handle an incunabulum priced at GBP5, but that was too much for my pocket.

I'll see if I can scan a page without damaging the book; it would make a change from the more usual pics you see on TV!

[isanbirder]

Here (I hope) is a scan of the last two pages (more toned than the rest of the book, but with interesting contents).

At the top of the second page, it starts "Venetiis p(er) Lazarum de Soardis" then the printing authorisation by "dominio Veneto". At the end of the third line is the date MCCCCCXIII. I'm not sure whether "dominio Veneto" refers to civil or ecclesiastical authorities.

[isanbirder]

On the related topic which I did NOT raise in this thread, viz. printing in Thailand, Manich Jumsai, who I realise is not regarded as the most reliable of authorities, quotes letters which suggest that the earliest press was imported into Thailand in 1796. It transliterated Thai into French (i.e. French vowel sounds). I don't know whether it actually printed anything!

[anothertorres]

Here (I hope) is a scan of the last two pages (more toned than the rest of the book, but with interesting contents).

At the top of the second page, it starts "Venetiis p(er) Lazarum de Soardis" then the printing authorisation by "dominio Veneto". At the end of the third line is the date MCCCCCXIII. I'm not sure whether "dominio Veneto" refers to civil or ecclesiastical authorities.

Hey, they stole the Nabisco logo! or maybe the Roycroft logo, i can't decide