Reds To Descend On Surayud's Vacation Home

[MyphuketLife]

So did the Reds leave the land they expropriated in the same natural condition that they found it in,

when they broke in to have their rally?

I think you know the answer to that question... Just look at how well the airport and government house was left by the yellows.

[Credo]

The Alpine golf course situation is one that should probably be handled by the yellow shirts.

[steveromagnino]

That will be a test of whether the reds are a poltical clique solely out for the interests of one man or really do care about iniquities.

Sarayud should give up the land etc etc and then we should call on the red movement to move to Alpine. Lets see if they really care or are utter hypocrites.

Get real Hammered.These are political activists not Guardian readers from Hampstead.

In the immortal words of Jim Hacker

The Daily Mirror is read by people who think they run the country. The Guardian is read by people who think they ought to run the country. The Times is read by people who actually do run the country. The Daily Mirror is read by the wives of the people who run the country. The Financial Times is read by people who own the country. The Morning Star is read by people who think the country ought to be run by another country. The Daily Telegraph is read by people who think it is.

And the people who read the Sun don't care who runs the country as long as she's got big tits.

The Alpine Golf Course is off limits for red shirters at the moment, since Sanoh was charmed back into the fold....maybe later for some other righteous indignation types.

Personally, I don't have a problem with the protests in this case; that's the purpose of an aware public - to rise up and complain from time to time about stuff they don't like; if the law is applied fairly then all should be satisfied. So long as they do it reasonably peacefully. Which based on my personal experience of a couple of red shirted guys coming all up in my face (note the o, not a u there) in almighty spurts of passionate energy was a hard thing to handle, and I felt physically likely to receive a real reaming from them at the time. Or something to that effect; apparently that day walking on the street and not wearing a red shirt was a crime.

Hopefully, the end result of all this will be a slightly more peaceful approach applied to ALL senior figures; not the selective approach of the yellow shirts going after Thaksin, or the red shirts going after whoever they perceive to be the enemies of Thaksin - at some point this standard - the standard of the law - needs to be applied to ALL - something they seem unwilling to accept on both shirt sides (especially the red shirts wind things back to 1997 and get a free ride do not go to jail, go directly to GO.

After all, the best watch dog for responsible government is every member of the voting public. Apathy ain't good.

[Davidusaf99]

I don't read the British papers, but that quote about the various papers by Steve is going on my facebook page. Funny stuff.

[hammered]

That will be a test of whether the reds are a poltical clique solely out for the interests of one man or really do care about iniquities.

Sarayud should give up the land etc etc and then we should call on the red movement to move to Alpine. Lets see if they really care or are utter hypocrites.

Get real Hammered.These are political activists not Guardian readers from Hampstead.

Political activists for a party it seems rather than political activists for any ideal as they happily ignore the excesses of the party they side with while only highlighting excesses of those they dont like.

Agree with Steve that at the end of the day if all were treated the same by all including the hypocrites of yellow and red things would be better. Interesting that the government are now going to investigate all dodgy land holdings. That is going to open many a can of worms. I wonder if one of Thailand's outspoken singers ever gave back the forrestry land his holiday home was on when caught a good few years back.

Im neither from Hampstead nor a reader of any particualr newspaper or other media source as I regard them as all bias and my roots are a lot more humble than Hampstead although I would aspire to a vacation home there.

[animatic]

Jim Hacker had it dead to rights!

[webfact]

Gen Surayud Insists on Waiting for a Conclusion from Forestry Dept Before Returning Land

UPDATE : 12 January 2010

General Surayud Chulanonda revealed today that he will wait for a conclusion from the Royal Forestry Department before giving up his land in Nakorn Ratchasima province. He insists that he will not vacate his post as privy councilor.

-- Tan Network 2010-01-12

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[jayboy]

That will be a test of whether the reds are a poltical clique solely out for the interests of one man or really do care about iniquities.

Sarayud should give up the land etc etc and then we should call on the red movement to move to Alpine. Lets see if they really care or are utter hypocrites.

Get real Hammered.These are political activists not Guardian readers from Hampstead.

Political activists for a party it seems rather than political activists for any ideal as they happily ignore the excesses of the party they side with while only highlighting excesses of those they dont like.

Agree with Steve that at the end of the day if all were treated the same by all including the hypocrites of yellow and red things would be better. Interesting that the government are now going to investigate all dodgy land holdings. That is going to open many a can of worms. I wonder if one of Thailand's outspoken singers ever gave back the forrestry land his holiday home was on when caught a good few years back.

Im neither from Hampstead nor a reader of any particualr newspaper or other media source as I regard them as all bias and my roots are a lot more humble than Hampstead although I would aspire to a vacation home there.

I just didn't think it very realistic to expect Reds to turn their attention to Alpine (certainly a scandal though now of some vintage).The Surayud land scandal is very current and highlights the "one rule for the elite one rule for everybody else" that enfuriates the reds and what is more most Thais.

[Davidusaf99]

Im pretty sure most Thai's don't give two figs about the 20 rai... Most of the ones I asked to today didn't even know about it. lol

[Sao Jiang Mai]

Dissapointed that Surayud didn't do the honourable thing, give up the land immediately. Why give the reds any more ammunition?

[Steve2UK]

That will be a test of whether the reds are a poltical clique solely out for the interests of one man or really do care about iniquities.

Sarayud should give up the land etc etc and then we should call on the red movement to move to Alpine. Lets see if they really care or are utter hypocrites.

Get real Hammered.These are political activists not Guardian readers from Hampstead.

Jayboy puts it rather more harshly than I would - but I go along with what I take to be the basic premise. Yes, they are political activists - though I'd swap in "opportunists". They are out to score points in a political contest - if "principle" serves the purpose in a chosen gambit, then (for them) so be it. Other times it will revolve around being a nuisance/obstacle to what the coalition are out to do; all too rarely (if ever) it might actually be promoting an idea or approach arguably more valid/sensible/productive than the government's chosen tack on an issue.

Put another way, apply the same test (do "they really care or are [they] utter hypocrites?") to any of the political groupings and bodies (PAD, Democrats, smaller parties/factions, military et al.) and just which of them comes up smelling of across-the-board principled, no-way-hypocritical roses?

PS> Thanks to steveromagnino for the "Yes [Prime?] Minister" quote. I've noted before that both series versions should be required viewing for all looking to understand the realities of politics........ painfully accurate as well as painfully funny.

[Thai at Heart]

http://www.yes-minister.com/ymseas2b.htm

"Oh Minister, all the difference in the world. Suppression is the instrument of totalitarian dictatorship, we don't talk of that sort of thing in a free country. We simply take a democratic decision not to publish it."

Nearly as funny as realising that Thaksin is a beacon of democracy and that the most capable politician in the country's history needs the help of a gun to get to the top.

You just couldn't write it.

[animatic]

Jim Hacker: "Ministers are not experts. They are chosen expressly because they know nothing."

Same same everywhere.

[brahmburgers]

Red shirts try to cut barbed wires of a house near Privy Councillor Gen Surayud Chulanont's Korat residence on Khao Yai Thieng to prepare for their rally scheduled on Monday. They claimed Surayud's residence was on forest reserve.//Thawechai Jaowattana

-- The Nation 2010-01-11

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

Rent a Mob at work. I wonder who paid for the brand new bolt cutters? The picture shows the commission of an act of criminal damage. You can never find a cop when you want one.

you beat me to the observation. Not only are the bolt cutters shiny new, but the 3 guys are dressed identical except for their hats. This is a well organized and well-funded operation. What were the cops doing? They either didn't know it was going on, or were sharing chuckles (and beer?) with the perpetrators ....take your pick.

....or, as happened in Pattaya last April, the cops lost their testicular fortitude when they saw some red shirts with resolve.

Edited January 13, 2010 by brahmburgers

[Bagwan]

....or, as happened in Pattaya last April, the cops lost their testicular fortitude when they saw some red shirts with resolve.

Like all bullies they have not got any. How many tooled up cops went to arrest a suspected small time drug dealer and shot up the house of his aged parents?

Ask for a cop's name and the telephone number of the station he operates from, or produce a camera, and he changes his attitude faster than the speed of light.

[webfact]

Red shirts keeping up busy schedule

The red shirts will keep up a busy scheduled throughout this month to raise awareness on the issues of injustice and forest encroachment involving Privy Council members, rally organiser Natthawut Saikua said on Wednesday.

On January 15, the red shirts will petition the Forestry Department to conduct a land survey of the forest plot of Privy Councillor Surayud Chulanont on suspicion that he has a bigger plot than the 21 rai as declared at Kho Yai Thiang in Nakhon Ratchasima.

On January 17, the red shirts will file a complaint at the Crime Suppression Division accusing Surayud of encroaching on the forest reserve.

On January 18, the red shirts will submit an open letter at the office of the Privy Council exposing Surayud's offence against the forest reserve.

-- The Nation 2010-01-13

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[hammered]

Sarayud should just give the land back now. Whether he retains his other position is something he has to decide on depending on his own morals and ethics.

We now have ministers taking responsibiltiy for their actions to some degree Sarayud cant display a lower level of ethics. In the past ministers would have said Im sticking to it until a court removes me. Sarayud is saying I will stay on the land until a review removes me which is similar to the old minsiters positions. To get in line with what is happening now he needs to give it up and soon.

My little and irrelevant poltical take on it all.

Edited January 13, 2010 by hammered

[Samuian]

didn't Taksin and his wife get done for a somewhat similar dodgy land deal?

Nope - nothing "similiar" here...!

Unless I missed something important!

Similiarity is that Suriayud seems to be nailed for exactly that what Mr.Thaksin was found guilty of, with a little difference... ah' well....

It's about power, all those who are involved, in one way or the other, will have to face the mudslinging now, it's all about unseating the Government, force new elections and meddle the outcome towards a return and a blanket amnesty of the "ruling class" which had established itself so comfortably, with an absolute majority in Parliament till Sept. 2006 Thailand Inc. with Mr.Thaksin as the chairman, he always bragged on about it, being the chairman of Thailand Inc. and leading this country like a company, (clear throat) HIS company...

Well, some see nothing roing with that, they claim this would have been "Real Democracy" because it was a "peoples elected" Government.... good salespoint! I have to remember that twist!

And I allow myself to think that this isn't smart but rather brute and shows how much some certain "democrats" really think about democracy and the people of this country!

It's good as is - if this can somehow continue.... improve check and balances.. get the "oldies" out of the system, it could be a very flourishing country indeed!

Any more to explain, say, or reading of tealeaves?

Edited January 13, 2010 by Samuian

[hammered]

Note that the PAD and their supporters wont come out to defend Sarayud although it would be mildly amusing if they picketed the Alpine golf course using the same arguement as the reds and exposing the very people the reds support as being involved in highly dubious land deals that little is being done about oh plus a few in government not that that would bother the PAD Im sure. Anyway, Sarayud is in a very lonely position.

[Thai at Heart]

Note that the PAD and their supporters wont come out to defend Sarayud although it would be mildly amusing if they picketed the Alpine golf course using the same arguement as the reds and exposing the very people the reds support as being involved in highly dubious land deals that little is being done about oh plus a few in government not that that would bother the PAD Im sure. Anyway, Sarayud is in a very lonely position.

I reckon the country would only be the better for it, if both sides keep pointing out very publicly the wrongdoings of the MP's of both sides. Eventually, they might even get together and instead of chasing this type of thing for their own gain, they might realise that it maybe for the good of the country if they simply chased and exposed corruption.

Sort of a roving crimestoppers. In the long run, I don't see that it does one bit of harm to the country at all, to point out the wrong doings of those in positions of responsibility or public service. I mean one ex-PM's wrongdoing in exchange for another ex-PM come Privy Councillors sort of makes the score 1-1.

I am very disappointed that Surayud hasn't simply given the land back. What reason can he have for claiming that it is legitimately his?

Long may the finger pointing continue. I would expect that there is barely an MP who has a blameless record, so bring it on for the good of the country I say.

[brahmburgers]

I have a gut feeling that Surayud would give the land back, knowing he's politically checked (if not yet check-mated) - yet I would bet he's being pressured by his wife to hang tough - as she's probably quite attached to the place, as she was the one who initiated getting it, and it's a womanly sort of thing to get v. attached to a dwelling.

[way2muchcoffee]

I reckon the country would only be the better for it, if both sides keep pointing out very publicly the wrongdoings of the MP's of both sides. Eventually, they might even get together and instead of chasing this type of thing for their own gain, they might realise that it maybe for the good of the country if they simply chased and exposed corruption.

Sort of a roving crimestoppers. In the long run, I don't see that it does one bit of harm to the country at all, to point out the wrong doings of those in positions of responsibility or public service. I mean one ex-PM's wrongdoing in exchange for another ex-PM come Privy Councillors sort of makes the score 1-1.

I am very disappointed that Surayud hasn't simply given the land back. What reason can he have for claiming that it is legitimately his?

Long may the finger pointing continue. I would expect that there is barely an MP who has a blameless record, so bring it on for the good of the country I say.

Agreed. As inconvenient and obnoxious as the finger-pointing is, at least there is greater transparency in the private lives and decisions of public figures.

[jayboy]

Now that this is episode over, regardless of whether Surayud agrees to comply with the law or not, it's clear this has been a stunning propaganda coup for the Reds.Several friends, none of them by any stretch red supporters, have pointed out this incident demonstrates the culture of impunity among the elite and the implicit contempt for the law when it affects their interests.What is more the Red demonstration was peacefully conducted and ended at just the right time.What we are seeing is an example, admittedly a small one, of the disintegration of unthinking deference among ordinary Thais which has been very apparent the last few years.

[mca]

Long may the finger pointing continue. I would expect that there is barely an MP who has a blameless record, so bring it on for the good of the country I say.

I wholeheartedly agree. Let the Thai people open the box and make everybody accountable no matter their political stance or "status" in society.

Deference to all forms of Puu Yai from the lowliest government drone up by virtue of their position and not necessarily their actions. To me the bane of Thailand. Respect? Earned not given I was always taught.

Edited January 14, 2010 by mca

[TAWP]

If the finger-pointing was followed by a swift gun-shot we might also be able to move forward.

However, as it even happened in my home-country when high level figures in the ruling socialist party and side-organisations got caught doing very shady things, they resigned only to be appointed to other high level positions with nice salaries. Once up they could never fall down unless they upset the inner core...

[webfact]

The Khao Yai Thiang controversy to be resolved in 7 days: PM

By The Nation

The controversy related to Privy Councilor Surayud Chulanont's vacation home located inside the forest reserve of Khao Yai Thiang in Nakhon Ratchasima is expected to be resolved within a week, Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva on Thursday.

"The Forestry Department is just waiting for public prosecutors to forward the case for its scrutiny and will need no more than seven days to draw conclusion," he said.

The prompt action should signal to parties concerned that the government did not condone double standards nor neglect to deal with the issue, he said.

Surayud earlier said he was ready to comply with the ruling by the department.

-- The Nation 2010-01-14

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[Thai at Heart]

If the finger-pointing was followed by a swift gun-shot we might also be able to move forward.

However, as it even happened in my home-country when high level figures in the ruling socialist party and side-organisations got caught doing very shady things, they resigned only to be appointed to other high level positions with nice salaries. Once up they could never fall down unless they upset the inner core...

Well, modern China seems to have that kind of rather swift justice for corruption and abuse of position.

I would believe that the kind of disclosure of wrong doing against a member of the privy council may well be a first in Thailand. Thus, I give thanks for small mercies. However, Thailand is going through more than its fair share of firsts so watch this space. If the reds a smart enough they probably already have a dossier of wrong doings on all their foes.

Will probably make interesting watching if Thaksin gets even deeper into the mire.

[Siripon]

In my view the OAG was absolutely wrong to say Surayud had committed no wrongdoing in buying the land, an 'honest mistake'.

Khun Surayud should have checked the legal status of the land, as every potential land buyer should.

The AOG's ruling gives every encroacher in Thailand, and the numbers are huge, the legal defence that 'they didn't know' the land was only for agricultural use.

[Thai at Heart]

In my view the OAG was absolutely wrong to say Surayud had committed no wrongdoing in buying the land, an 'honest mistake'.

Khun Surayud should have checked the legal status of the land, as every potential land buyer should.

The AOG's ruling gives every encroacher in Thailand, and the numbers are huge, the legal defence that 'they didn't know' the land was only for agricultural use.

I would love to know the legal translation of "I didn't mean to". It could become as ubiquitous as "Mai bpen arai" as a phrase that defines Thai culture.

I reckon the "I didn't mean to" will probably be tried on in every single legal and civil case as a form of defence.

[jayboy]

In my view the OAG was absolutely wrong to say Surayud had committed no wrongdoing in buying the land, an 'honest mistake'.

Khun Surayud should have checked the legal status of the land, as every potential land buyer should.

The AOG's ruling gives every encroacher in Thailand, and the numbers are huge, the legal defence that 'they didn't know' the land was only for agricultural use.

Siripon, whose general political views are a matter of record has in the above post set an excellent example to all (including myself) by putting honesty above any ideological agenda.There used to be a word for this ....ah yes, integrity.