A Challenge To The Advanced Thai Speakers

[Gaccha]

From having learnt Japanese I have put together some listening practice clips on YouTube. I had noticed that there was nowhere in the entire world that provided an exact transcription of popular Western movie clips after they have been dubbed into Japanese. There were, of course, subtitles in Japanese, but these do not come even come close to matching the actual dialogue. So I set out to change this.

Take a look at my Star Wars entry:

And my more advanced level Braveheart entry:

So, I want you Thai speakers to match this. You need a good ear, a notepad, Windows movie maker, Audacity (free sound edit cutter) and around 5 hours to spare...

Or I'll do it , but I need your ear. Please find a famous scene in a movie (I have used "Thirteen Days", "From Earth to the Moon" etc.) and transcribe the Thai dubbed version, stick it on this website and I'll make it into a Youtube clip. The clip should be at most 5 minutes long.

Thanks in advance.

[motoyen]

Do you have any suggestions on where I can learn Japanese in Bangkok?

[Gaccha]

Do you have any suggestions on where I can learn Japanese in Bangkok?

This is off topic, but it will bump the topic back to the top, so I'll answer . I would suggest the Japan Foundation (a propaganda arm of the Japanese government), they have a very comprehensive set of courses available for Japanese language acquisition, in addition to a superb library and frequent showings of Japanese films. Go along (they are located slightly North of Asoke Station) and ask for details. Classes include a class just studying Japanese dramas. Other classes prepare you for the proficiency exams.

http://www.jfbkk.or.th/2009/index.php3

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Foundation

[motoyen]

Thanks Gaccha good info and I'll check it out.

[Gaccha]

My challenge remains.

Here is a 3 minute segment (the Ezekiel 25:17 scene) from the superb Pulp Fiction movie of 1994 on MP3. Please listen to it and write the Thai script down and post it. You do that, then I will 'YouTube it'.

[please see next post to download MP3-- uploaded wrong file here]

Here is the English script, which may help:

BRETT

(to Jules)

Look, what's your name? I got his

name's Vincent, but what's yours?

JULES

My name's Pitt, and you ain't

talkin' your a*s outta this sh*t.

BRETT

I just want you to know how sorry

we are about how f*cked up things

got between us and Mr. Wallace.

When we entered into this thing, we

only had the best intentions --

As Brett talks, Jules takes out his gun and SHOOTS Roger three

times in the chest, BLOWING him out of his chair.

Vince smiles to himself. Jules has got style.

Brett has just sh*t his pants. He's not crying or whimpering,

but he's so full of fear, it's as if his body is imploding.

JULES

(to Brett)

Oh, I'm sorry. Did that break your

concentration? I didn't mean to do

that. Please, continue. I believe

you were saying something about

"best intentions."

Brett can't say a word.

JULES

Whatsamatter? Oh, you were through

anyway. Well, let me retort.

Would you describe for me what

Marsellus Wallace looks like?

Brett still can't speak.

Jules SNAPS, SAVAGELY TIPPING the card table over, removing

the only barrier between himself and Brett. Brett now sits in

a lone chair before Jules like a political prisoner in front

of an interrogator.

JULES

What country you from!

BRETT

(petrified)

What?

JULES

"What" ain't no country I know! Do

they speak English in "What?"

BRETT

(near heart attack)

What?

JULES

English-motherf*cker-can-you-speak-

it?

BRETT

Yes.

JULES

Then you understand what I'm

sayin'?

BRETT

Yes.

JULES

Now describe what Marsellus Wallace

looks like!

BRETT

(out of fear)

What?

Jules takes his .45 and PRESSES the barrel HARD in Brett's

cheek.

JULES

Say "What" again! C'mon, say

"What" again! I dare ya, I double

dare ya motherf*cker, say "What"

one more g*ddamn time!

Brett is regressing on the spot.

JULES

Now describe to me what Marsellus

Wallace looks like!

Brett does his best.

BRETT

Well he's ...he's...black --

JULES

-- go on!

BRETT

...and he's...he's...tall --

JULES

-- does he look like a b*tch?!

BRETT

(without thinking)

What?

Jules' eyes go to Vincent, Vincent smirks, Jules rolls his

eyes and SHOOT Brett in the shoulder.

Brett SCREAMS, breaking into a SHAKING/TREMBLING SPASM in the

chair.

JULES

Does-he-look-like-a-b*tch?!

BRETT

(in agony)

No.

JULES

Then why did you try to <deleted> 'im

like a b*tch?!

BRETT

(in spasm)

I didn't.

Now in a lower voice.

JULES

Yes ya did Brett. Ya tried ta <deleted>

'im. You ever read the Bible,

Brett?

BRETT

(in spasm)

Yes.

JULES

There's a passage I got memorized,

seems appropriate for this

situation: Ezekiel 25:17. "The path

of the righteous man is beset on

all sides by the inequities of the

selfish and the tyranny of evil

men. Blessed is he who, in the

name of charity and good will,

shepherds the weak through the

valley of darkness, for he is truly

his brother's keeper and the finder

of lost children. And I will

strike down upon thee with great

vengeance and furious anger those

who attempt to poison and destroy

my brothers. And you will know my

name is the Lord when I lay my

vengeance upon you."

The two men EMPTY their guns at the same time on the sitting

Brett.

When they are finished, the bullet-ridden carcass just sits

there for a moment, then TOPPLES over.

All is quiet.

Movie_Clips___Pulp_Fiction___Bible_Quotes.mp3

Edited January 24, 2010 by Gaccha

[Gaccha]

Oops. Uploaded wrong track. Here is the right one:

Pulp_Fiction_Thai_language_Bible_quote.mp3

[Rikker]

Just did this quickly. Needs double checking.

เออฟังนะ ผมขอโทษ เออ คือผม ผมยังไม่รู้ชื่อคุณเลย ชื่อคุณวินเซนต์ใช่ไหม ของคุณยังไม่รู้เลย

ผมชื่อพิตต์ ถึงแกจะเล่นลิ้นก็ไปไม่รอด

อ๋อไม่ไม่ไม่ไม่ไม่ คือผมแค่อยากจะรู้ว่า คือ คือ คือ คือ ผมอยากให้คุณรู้ว่า เราเสียใจที่มันเกิดความผิดพลาดระหว่างเรากับคุณวาลเลซน่ะนะ แต่ว่าเรื่องนี้เรามีเจตนาดีที่สุดเลย ผมไม่เคยคิดเลยว่ามันจะ

อ้อ ขอโทษ ฉันรบกวนสมาธิรึ ไม่ได้ตั้งใจนะ เชิญ พูดต่อซิ แกกำลังพูดถึงเรื่อง เออ เจตนาที่ดี

ทำไมอ่ะ พูดจบแล้วเอ๋อ งั้นฉันขอถามบ้างนะ มาร์เซลลัส วาลเลซ หน้าตาเป็นยังไง

อะไรนะ

แกมาจากประเทศไหน

อะไร อะไรอ่ะ

ประเทศชื่อ "อะไร" มี ด้วยเอ๋อ ที่นั่นพูดอังกฤษหรือเปล่า

อะไร

ภาษาอังกฤษ ไอ้โง่ แกพูดเป็นไหม

เป็น

งั้นก็รู้ว่าฉันพูดอะไร

ใช่

บอกมา มาร์เซลลัส วาลเลซ หน้าตายังไง

อะไรอ่ะ

พูด"อะไร"อีกซี่ พูด "อะไร" อีกซี่ ฉันท้า ฉันท้าให้พูด ไอ้สารเลว พูดคำว่า "อะไร" อีกทีนึง

เขาดำ ดำ

แล้วไง

หัวล้าน

หน้าเขาเหมือนหมาไหม

อะไรนะ

หน้า-เขา-เหมือน-หมา หรือเปล่า

ไม่

ทำไมแกหักหลังเขาเหมือนหมาน่ะ แกหักหลัง แก-หัก-หลัง เบรตต์ แกหักหลังเขา มาร์เซลลัสไม่ชอบให้ใครทำแบบนั้นกับเขานอกจากเมียของเขา แกอ่านคัมภีร์ไหม เบรตต์

อ่าน อ่านครับ

มันมีข้อความหนึ่งที่เหมาะมากกับโอกาสแบบนี้ อีซีเคียล 25:17 "วิถีแห่งผ้เที่ยงธรรมถูกรายล้อมรอบด้าน ด้วยความอยุติธรรมของผู้ชั่วร้าย และเห็นแก่ตัว และทรราช แต่พระผู้เป็นเจ้าในนามของความเมตตาและมีไมตรีจิต นำผู้อ่อนแอผ่านหุบเขาแห่งความมืด พระองค์คือเพื่อนแท้ของมวลมนุษย์ และผู้ค้นหาผู้หลงทาง แต่พระองค์จะลงโทษอย่างหนักหน่วงด้วยความโกรธกริ้ว และความเกลียดแค้นพิโรธ ต่อผู้ที่คิดจะทำให้พี่น้องแปดเปื้อน และทำร้ายมวลมนุษย์ และจงรู้ไว้ด้วยว่า พระองค์คือพระเจ้า เมื่อพระองค์ลงโทษผู้กระทำผิด"

It appears the translator did the Ezekiel translation on his/her own, instead of taking it from an actual Thai bible, since some parts are mistranslated. For example, "Blessed is he who...shepherds the weak" is translated as "God...shepherds the weak".

[Gaccha]

Just did this quickly. Needs double checking.

[cut]

มันมีข้อความหนึ่งที่เหมะมากกับโอกาสแบบนี้ อีซีเคียล 25:17 "วิถีแห่งผู้เที่ยงธรรมถูกรายล้อมรอบด้าน ด้วยความอยุติธรรมของผู้ชั่วร้าย และเห็นแก่ตัว และทรราช แต่พระผู้เป็นเจ้าในนามของความเมตตาและมีไมตรีจิต นำผู้อ่อนแอผ่านหุบเขาแห่งความมืด พระองค์คือเพื่อนแท้ของมวลมนุษย์ และผู้ค้นหาผู้หลงทาง แต่พระองค์จะลงโทษอย่างหนึกหน่วงด้วยความโกรธกริ้ว และความเกลียดแค้นพิโรธ ต่อผู้ที่คิดให้พี่น้องแปดเปื้อน และทำร้ายมวลมนุษย์ และจงรู้ไว้ด้วยว่า พระองค์คือพระเจ้า เมื่อพระองค์ลงโทษผู้กระทำผิด"

It appears the translator did Ezekiel translation on his/her own, instead of taking it from an actual Thai bible, since some parts are mistranslated. For example, "Blessed is he who...shepherds the weak" is translated as "God...shepherds the weak".

That is great. I suspected the bible part would be very tough. But Rikker's ear is so good he can even analyse the translator's style.

Can another advanced level person have a listen and check as Rikker requested. When I did my Japanese ones I made an average of 3 errors even after they were checked by two native speakers...

If all goes to plan, I'll stick this up on YouTube, making it the first video on YouTube with a Thai transliteration. Rikker's name deserves to be in big, bold, flashing lights.

[meadish_sweetball]

Stellar job by Rikker. Noticed one typo:

มันมีข้อความหนึ่งที่เหมะมากกับโอกาสแบบนี้

มันมีข้อความหนึ่งที่เหมาะมากกับโอกาสแบบนี้

มาร์เซลลัสไม่ชอบให้ใครทำแบบนั้นกับเขานอกจากเมียของเขา

This translation seems a bit weird, unless Thais would immediately associate แบบนั้น with having sex... otherwise it's saying that Marcellus doesn't mind being stabbed in the back by his wife, which is unlikely.

[Rikker]

Thanks, Gaccha. Look forward to seeing it on YouTube. Was fun to do.

Meadish, thanks for noticing the typo. I fixed another couple just now, too (I had spelled หนักหน่วง as หนึกหน่วง, and I think มา should have been ไหม in แกอ่านคัมภีร์ไหม.)

Everyone else is encouraged to point out more errors, of course. But note that there are some things that might look like errors but aren't, they're just phonetic spellings. Like เอ๋อ here is just a very reduced form of หรือ > เหรอ > เอ๋อ. And นึง in อีกทีนึง -- when หนึ่ง isn't stressed it often becomes a middle tone, as in นิดนึง or ชิ้นนึง.

And I agree Meadish, that that part of the exchange (หน้าเขาเหมือนหมาไหม etc) comess off a little strange. Not that I have a better translation! Is there some level of meaning we're missing? Curious to hear a native speaker chime in.

[mike_l]

Great job Rikker, the biblical part especially Only thing I noticed was near the end where it sounds like it should be "ต่อผู้ที่คิดจะทำให้พี่น้องแปดเปื้อน" to me.

BTW, does anyone know why absolutely all of the พากษ์ไทย films use the same odd-sounding voices like in this clip ? Maybe it's just me, but the unnaturalness of the voices and the fact that it makes all the dubbed movies sound the same makes it really off-putting to watch Thai-dubbed versions of foreign films.

[Rikker]

Ah, good catch, Mike. I've updated my post with your correction.

I could be way off here, but I believe this tradition of having a small number of people doing virtually all dubbing goes back to the days of live dubbing 16mm films. I'm not sure when 35mm became common, but I don't think it was too long ago, maybe the 1970s (I'll have to ask Wise Kwai). But 16mm film has no embedded audio track (35mm has an optical strip along one edge that a laser reads and turns into audio). There are a few options for how to add sound to a 16mm film, but the reigning method in Thailand was live dubbing. That is, voice actors sitting in the theater acting out the audio for the film. This made a small number of dubbers as famous as any actor, because they were the voices of *every* actor. It wasn't just foreign films that were dubbed, but every film. Real Thai film heads know the names of these dubbing celebs, but unfortunately I don't.

As recently as the 1990s, well after 35mm film took hold, it was commonplace to dub the actors' actual voices with these professional voice actors onto the film's soundtrack itself. Nowadays the dubbing on foreign films is the last vestige of this practice. But there is still only a small number of voice actors who do all the dubbing. And I agree, it makes the Thai soundtrack difficult to watch.

[CSS]

Ah, good catch, Mike. I've updated my post with your correction.

I could be way off here, but I believe this tradition of having a small number of people doing virtually all dubbing goes back to the days of live dubbing 16mm films. I'm not sure when 35mm became common, but I don't think it was too long ago, maybe the 1970s (I'll have to ask Wise Kwai). But 16mm film has no embedded audio track (35mm has an optical strip along one edge that a laser reads and turns into audio). There are a few options for how to add sound to a 16mm film, but the reigning method in Thailand was live dubbing. That is, voice actors sitting in the theater acting out the audio for the film. This made a small number of dubbers as famous as any actor, because they were the voices of *every* actor. It wasn't just foreign films that were dubbed, but every film. Real Thai film heads know the names of these dubbing celebs, but unfortunately I don't.

As recently as the 1990s, well after 35mm film took hold, it was commonplace to dub the actors' actual voices with these professional voice actors onto the film's soundtrack itself. Nowadays the dubbing on foreign films is the last vestige of this practice. But there is still only a small number of voice actors who do all the dubbing. And I agree, it makes the Thai soundtrack difficult to watch.

Good work Rikker. I didn't catch any mistakes listening through once and I only saw one typo. I believe the first ผู้ in the biblical quote is missing the vowel. As far as Mike's dislike for the sound of the Thai voice overs on foreign films, I couldn't agree more. I imagine it would be good Thai practice to watch these movies in Thai but it just grates on my ears too much.

[Rikker]

Another good catch, now corrected.

Also, I just checked Google and at least two Thai bible translations use เอเสเคียล for Ezekiel and not อีซีเคียล, but since that's how he says it in the clip, I've left it that way.

[meadish_sweetball]

Somewhat related, I remember my wife complaining that she doesn't like watching Chinese movies dubbed into Thai, because apparently the overdub artists would insert their own unrelated jokes in the dialogue. I never explored this in depth.

[Rikker]

Interesting! I remember a few years ago buying Napoleon Dynamite on legal Thai DVD simply out of curiosity *how* that could be dubbed and be funny. Personally, I found the film amusing, but then again I grew up in that part of the US, and I had trouble imagining how people from other parts of the US, let alone entirely other cultures, would respond. To me it was funny because it was so familiar.

I couldn't make it through the whole thing, but whereas the film uses a lot of awkward silences, I noticed the dubbers inserting "funny" dialogue or mumbling and the like where there was none in the original. I guess that's how they adapt it.

[katana]

BTW, does anyone know why absolutely all of the พากษ์ไทย films use the same odd-sounding voices like in this clip ? Maybe it's just me, but the unnaturalness of the voices and the fact that it makes all the dubbed movies sound the same makes it really off-putting to watch Thai-dubbed versions of foreign films.

I thought it was because the voice was meant to convey a farang speaking Thai with a 'farang' accent. Or at least a non-native Thai accent. In a similar way, Chinese films dubbed into English will often have the characters speaking English with a Chinese accent. Just a thought.

[Gaccha]

BTW, does anyone know why absolutely all of the พากษ์ไทย films use the same odd-sounding voices like in this clip ? Maybe it's just me, but the unnaturalness of the voices and the fact that it makes all the dubbed movies sound the same makes it really off-putting to watch Thai-dubbed versions of foreign films.

I thought it was because the voice was meant to convey a farang speaking Thai with a 'farang' accent. Or at least a non-native Thai accent. In a similar way, Chinese films dubbed into English will often have the characters speaking English with a Chinese accent. Just a thought.

In japanese, they use the Kansai dialect to translate northern english accents.

This subject is enormously complex, but there is a website (probably one of the best on the internet that you can spend hours reading about all these movie and language tropes) called: tvtropes.org

Here are some recommended (by me) pages:

Language tropes in general: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LanguageTropes

Translation train wreck: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main...ationTrainWreck

And the blind id*ot translation: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main...diotTranslation

[Rikker]

katana, I don't think that logic holds up, because the same dubbers do the voices on animated TV shows, both domestic and foreign. Also on films from non-farang countries. There's nothing wrong with their accents, typically, it's just the stylized, overacting way in which they dub.

[Gaccha]

Rikker,

Need your call on this. In the dialogue you have given it runs like this:

พูด"อะไร"อีกซี่ พูด "อะไร" อีกซี่ ฉันท้า ฉันท้าให้พูด ไอ้สารเลว พูดคำว่า "อะไร" อีกทีนึง

[ ]

เขาดำ ดำ

This seems to me that a line of dialogue is missing (where I have placed the square brackets):

"Now describe to me what Marsellus Wallace looks like!" followed by เขาดำ ดำ

I am almost certain that you have not written it because the Thai is an exact repeat of a few lines prior, which in English and Thia was this:

"Now describe what Marsellus Wallace looks like!"

บอกมา มาร์เซลลัส วาลเลซ หน้าตายังไง

The English is almost the same.

Thanks in advance. Trying hard to get a YouTube video up soon.

[Rikker]

They left that line out of the Thai dub the second time.

พูด"อะไร"อีกซี่ พูด "อะไร" อีกซี่ ฉันท้า ฉันท้าให้พูด ไอ้สารเลว พูดคำว่า "อะไร" อีกทีนึง

is immediately followed in the audio by

เขาดำ ดำ

[Gaccha]

They left that line out of the Thai dub the second time.

พูด"อะไร"อีกซี่ พูด "อะไร" อีกซี่ ฉันท้า ฉันท้าให้พูด ไอ้สารเลว พูดคำว่า "อะไร" อีกทีนึง

is immediately followed in the audio by

เขาดำ ดำ

Yes, sorry. Listened and listened again. It isn't there. It suggests the man whose life is in danger and is in great distress has a great ability to keep up with questions asked...

[Gaccha]

Here it is:

[desi]

Fabulous! When you slow it down to 80%, can you add the Thai script in there too?

[Gaccha]

It's too late for alterations. Just doing Desi's alteration would take 3-4 hours... but I'll sort something out.

It amuses me that the video won an honour on YouTube as '37th Top Rated- Education Japan'...

I think we'll know we are getting somewhere when it receives the Thai honour. Never mind.

And here is a screen shot for those that find having a look at the actual video an alarmingly hard task.

[Rikker]

So... what's the next clip, Gaccha?

[desi]

It's too late for alterations. Just doing Desi's alteration would take 3-4 hours... but I'll sort something out.

Apologies, I was not focusing on how time-consuming this is to do. The Thai script goes wizzing by in the fast version. But your slowed down pace seems 'just right' for a reader such as myself. If I can help in any way, please holler.