No Religion, Please. We're American.

[Xangsamhua]

A conservative commentator has caused a stir in the States by suggesting that Tiger Woods should give up his "Buddhism" and become a "Christian" so that he will be forgiven for his dalliances.

The article below, in response, is worth reading right through, as the author considers different perspectives. The underpinning question, however, is whether it's "polite" to make recommendations or propositions about religion in a multi-faith society.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/11/opinion/11douthat.html

[PeaceBlondie]

Good set of comments there by Ross Douthat. He quotes a title by Presbyterian author Francis Schaefer: How then should we live?. Buddhism may have answers.

[sabaijai]

All the Buddhist blogs and newspaper religion columns in America are awash with commentary. Here's what the Washington Post had to say.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...0010803634.html

[FM505]

IF YOU CAN FIND A BETTER DEAL, TAKE IT!

January 6, 2010

http://www.anncoulter.com/cgi-local/article.cgi?article=349

[sabaijai]

IF YOU CAN FIND A BETTER DEAL, TAKE IT!

January 6, 2010

http://www.anncoulter.com/cgi-local/article.cgi?article=349

Is Buddhism about forgiveness? Because, if so, Buddhists had better start demanding corrections from every book, magazine article and blog posting ever written on the subject, which claims Buddhists don't believe in God, but try to become their own gods.

Like Hume, Coulter appears to understand very little about Buddhism.

[bankruatsteve]

I (for one and perhaps millions) don't really care if Tiger is Budhhist, Christian, or whatever. And, I don't care if he had some indiscretions in his almost perfect life. He's human just like everyone but oh he plays golf like no one else. That's what I want to see. I can imagine that he would want to re-do some things right now - but don't we all. I hope he comes back to the tour. It just wouldn't be the same without him.

[toptuan]

Yes, it's appropriate to "make recommendations or propositions about religion in a multi-faith society," so long as there is not intimidation or government coercion. It's like a market place of ideas. It assumes everyone is intelligent enough to decide for themselves after considering the options. Just like the way you'd shop for a new car or an onion in the fresh market.

Those who decry statements such as those made by Brit Hume are showing their own emotional immaturity to handle diverse beliefs in the free market of ideas and faiths.

America is becoming so rabidly PC (politically correct) that this mentality is starting to stifle the legitimate exercise of free speech in regards to religion, race, sex, and whatever else might step on anyone's toes.

[Ijustwannateach]

The recommendation is offensive at best; ignorant at least- in ignorance of the possibilities that 1. Buddhism is not a religious persuasion for all of its followers; 2. Whether or not it is, not all religions are obsessed with the concepts of 'sin' and 'forgiveness' as defined by Judeochristianity; 3. Buddhism has its own mechanisms for defining and addressing personal flaws- which IMHO are more practical and reliable. It seems to me a far more functional concept of the problem to reason that Tiger has created problems for himself and his family by his behaviour, and that he needs to look into himself to discover how to overcome these flaws for his own sake and that of his family, than to think that by asking some invisible entity to forgive him he either eliminates his own responsibility for change and restitution or gains his family's acceptance, forgiveness, and respect thereby.

[PhilHarries]

Personally I don't care whether Tiger is Buddhist, Christian, Jewish, Muslim or a follower of Jesus Christ the double glazing salesman nor do I care how many tarts he's sh*gged. There are more important things to consider in the world today not least being the plight of those poor souls in Haiti.

Western media and the people's slimy fixation with anything concerned with "celebrities" is getting so far from reality it beggars belief.

[phetaroi]

I (for one and perhaps millions) don't really care if Tiger is Budhhist, Christian, or whatever. And, I don't care if he had some indiscretions in his almost perfect life. He's human just like everyone but oh he plays golf like no one else. That's what I want to see. I can imagine that he would want to re-do some things right now - but don't we all. I hope he comes back to the tour. It just wouldn't be the same without him.

There are so many aspects of this overall story, and the religion aspect is yet another area to explore...and I for one was not aware that he was Buddhist. Taken in a way that Brit Hume did not mean, I would have to say that Tiger Woods' "faith" in Buddhism was inadequate to deal with the kind of problems he faced and faces. Note that I said HIS faith was inadequate, not that Buddhism is inadequate.

The immorality -- in almost any religion (and yes, I do think Buddhism can be considered a religion) -- of adultery (let alone mass adultery) is one matter, and certainly included as a wrong action.

What I personally find more offensive and immoral about Tiger Woods (and I was once a huge fan) was living a fraudulent life. Not sure what precept that might fall under -- hope it will be discussed -- but here is a guy who publicly portrayed himself as nearly perfect person and set himself apart and above others...and paid publicists huge sums to promote that specific image. A man who had professional family photos taken to post on his professional website. Who several days before the scandal broke was taped saying, "Family first. Always."

I think it is the exposure of living a fraudulent life that his shrunk his favorable ratings from the mid-80s to the mid-30s. Not to mention his hiding from the public he once profited so handsomely from. Is there a precept about cowardice?

[phetaroi]

Yes, it's appropriate to "make recommendations or propositions about religion in a multi-faith society," so long as there is not intimidation or government coercion. It's like a market place of ideas. It assumes everyone is intelligent enough to decide for themselves after considering the options. Just like the way you'd shop for a new car or an onion in the fresh market.

Those who decry statements such as those made by Brit Hume are showing their own emotional immaturity to handle diverse beliefs in the free market of ideas and faiths.

America is becoming so rabidly PC (politically correct) that this mentality is starting to stifle the legitimate exercise of free speech in regards to religion, race, sex, and whatever else might step on anyone's toes.

In general, I agree with you. I think the problem here is that a newscaster who belongs to a new organization that bills itself as being "fair and balanced" has become a tout for a religion. For me, that's crossing a serious line.

[Yamantaka]

I have been practicing Buddhism for over thirty years and always enjoy these kind of comments and discussions. I used to watch Fox News for amusement purposes until I moved to where it is not available. They boast of huge ratings, but the last election proved that while many people watch the circus, not many follow their advice of the clowns, ie Hannity, Beck or Coulter and their mental midget acts like Limbaugh, Palin and Cheney. They have often made references to Buddhism over the years which demonstrated that they can't be bothered to actually have their staff do any research on the subject. It usually inspores intelligent people to find out the truth which is always a good thing.

[Jingthing]

As a non-Christian American, I can comment on this. Fox News is the most popular tv "news" network in America. Most of their news is not real news, it is pro Christian, pro right wing propaganda. People have the right to watch anything they want. But when you have a media organ promoting the idea that America is a "Christian" nation based on the views of that the "founding fathers" founded a "Christian nation" (in other words more of a theocracy) when that is a falsehood, and then you have a commentator suggest a famous American convert, yes, a line has been crossed. It is inconceivable that a Fox News personality would suggest someone convert to any other religion EXCEPT Christianity. There is no diversity in that way there. I don't care at all about Woods any more than any other person I don't know, this is about Fox and their noxious influence. BTW, I hear he is now in a sex addicts rehab facility in Switzerland. That is of course a PR move.

Edited January 15, 2010 by Jingthing

[zaphodbeeblebrox]

Britt Hume, although he works for Fox News, is a well-respected political journalist. I don't agree with many of his views, but I believe his has been an excellent journalist and news commentator for many years.

The comments Hume made about Tiger Woods and Buddhism were way out of line, and probably would have gotten him fired from any news station, other than Fox. Other than fanatical extremism, faith is off limits from political commentary. Hume demonstrated he is ignorant, insensitive and a religious bigot. What's worse, is that Hume was given several chances in later interviews to retract or apologize, and, rather than admit his error, he double-downed on his ridiculous comments.

If a Muslim or Jewish politician falls into the same predicament as Woods, is Hume going to try to convince them to convert to Christianity? Absolute insanity from a very gifted and talented news anchor.

[Xangsamhua]

I don't really have any objection to Mr Hume's remarks. They're really no more inappropriate than many unsolicited and ill-informed pieces of advice people give to those who are in some difficulties. I'm sure we all remember well-intended but quite unhelpful comments from friends and colleagues in pursuit of some solution. Sometimes they are quite irritating.

Mr Hume's remarks about the claimed emotional and salvific benefits of trusting in God, seeking forgiveness, repenting (i.e. "turning away" from) the sinful behaviour and, thereby, obtaining redemption are quite in keeping with orthodox Christianity across the spectrum. Protestants really do believe that repentance brings about forgiveness, which brings about salvation. Catholics interpose a period of time in Purgatory as penance for the harm done by one's sins - something like working through the effects of one's Karma.

Where Britt Hume can be accused of arrogance and naivete is in his lack of knowledge of Tiger Woods' personal form of Buddhism or of what Woods may already be doing to lessen the harm he has done and to find a more fruitful path for the greed and delusion he has tried to feed through adultery and hypocrisy.

Until Tiger Woods has a sincere intention to change direction and clean up the mess he's created, any kind of "conversion" would be meaningless. If Christianity in some form helps him to do that, it might be worth taking on board. If Buddhism provides practical strategies to overcome the causes of his errors, why convert to something else?

Mr Hume is entitled to put his oar in, useless and all as it may be, but he hasn't done any more than be mildly annoying and irrelevant, so what's all the fuss about?

[FM505]

Yes, it's appropriate to "make recommendations or propositions about religion in a multi-faith society," so long as there is not intimidation or government coercion. It's like a market place of ideas. It assumes everyone is intelligent enough to decide for themselves after considering the options. Just like the way you'd shop for a new car or an onion in the fresh market.

Those who decry statements such as those made by Brit Hume are showing their own emotional immaturity to handle diverse beliefs in the free market of ideas and faiths.

America is becoming so rabidly PC (politically correct) that this mentality is starting to stifle the legitimate exercise of free speech in regards to religion, race, sex, and whatever else might step on anyone's toes.

In general, I agree with you. I think the problem here is that a newscaster who belongs to a new organization that bills itself as being "fair and balanced" has become a tout for a religion. For me, that's crossing a serious line.

Don't overlook the mass media who were coddling Tiger and his lifestyle... high ratings = high earnings/revenues.

[phetaroi]

I don't really have any objection to Mr Hume's remarks. They're really no more inappropriate than many unsolicited and ill-informed pieces of advice people give to those who are in some difficulties. I'm sure we all remember well-intended but quite unhelpful comments from friends and colleagues in pursuit of some solution. Sometimes they are quite irritating.

...

Mr Hume is entitled to put his oar in, useless and all as it may be, but he hasn't done any more than be mildly annoying and irrelevant, so what's all the fuss about?

The problem so of us have with this situation is the question of what "role" Hume is now playing. Is he a newsman? If he said yes, then I would say that it's totally inappropriate. If he's no longer a newsman and is a commentator, or at least labels certain segments as commentary, then it's not offensive to me in terms of his "role", but it is offensive in terms of his Christianity seeming to "preach down" to Buddhists.

My respect for Hume has declined precipitously. He was a much different "newscaster" when he was with ABC than he now is with FOX.

[ctira]

Country of freedom yet forcing someone to change his religion is ok?

It's sad how some people abuse the system, their rights & others and constitution.

[phetaroi]

Country of freedom yet forcing someone to change his religion is ok?

It's sad how some people abuse the system, their rights & others and constitution.

Where exactly is the force?

[Mosha]

Pat Robertson is gonna be so disappointed at the end, and he finds out death is all there is.

[moe666]

The uproar over the Hume commit is a bit over done. He is typical of some christians who seem to think they have found the answer to all of their problems and everyone elses.

[phetaroi]

The uproar over the Hume commit is a bit over done. He is typical of some christians who seem to think they have found the answer to all of their problems and everyone elses.

I think the concern is that a person in an authority position is foisting religious beliefs on others. Some might say a newscaster is not an authority figure, but I think when your face is constantly coming across the television waves...you are such.

When I was a school principal in the States, it was no secret that I was Buddhist, but I never brought it up, and when brought up by others I severely limited the discussion so that no one could say I was advocating Buddhism over any other belief.

I went overboard in that regard once. Two teachers were taking a course on multiculturalism, and their assignment was to participate in some multicultural experience and report back to the college class. They asked if I would take them to a local Buddhist temple (outside of D.C.), and at first I refused for the reason discussed above. I relented , however, after remembering that they came to me.

I think it is also problematic because FOX News goes to great ends to advertise itself as being "fair and balanced." Okay...so where's the balance here?

[sabaijai]

Two pundits debate the issue:

[ChiangMaiFun]

oh so christians don't cheat and 'sin' right? actually Buddhism has all of the answers to anyone's afflictions through understanding Karma etc. Tiger and everyone has choices - and we all make wrong ones (and right ones).

[rockyysdt]

Tiger and everyone has choices - and we all make wrong ones (and right ones).

Peoples comparative ability to make correct choices in life has often interested me.

A wholesome choice can be far more difficult for some due to their genetic & environmental conditioning.

For example, when keeping the precept of not taking intoxicants, those who have a genetic predisposition towards alcoholism must constantly battle against a powerful addiction compared to those who don't really like alcohol anyway.

When keeping precepts, due to our individual circumstances, for some there is minimal effort required whilst others must battle against hurdles not of their making.

[ChiangMaiFun]

Tiger and everyone has choices - and we all make wrong ones (and right ones).

Peoples comparative ability to make correct choices in life has often interested me.

A wholesome choice can be far more difficult for some due to their genetic & environmental conditioning.

For example, when keeping the precept of not taking intoxicants, those who have a genetic predisposition towards alcoholism must constantly battle against a powerful addiction compared to those who don't really like alcohol anyway.

When keeping precepts, due to our individual circumstances, for some there is minimal effort required whilst others must battle against hurdles not of their making.

yes... but isn't that all conditioned by personal Karma? being born with those genetic possibilities? isn't overcoming 'everything' whilst recognising that all fruit of today was our own seed planting of yesterday? so surely (with respect) it really isn't 'hurdles not of their making'?

[rockyysdt]

yes... but isn't that all conditioned by personal Karma? being born with those genetic possibilities? isn't overcoming 'everything' whilst recognising that all fruit of today was our own seed planting of yesterday? so surely (with respect) it really isn't 'hurdles not of their making'?

Right with you CFM.

It's just that the new "impermanent & conditioned", with no memory of what went on before, receives the handicaps & some of the suffering.

We (ego) are the innocent conduit which inherit the khamma.

But then we (ego) are an illusion.

Edited January 29, 2010 by rockyysdt

[ChiangMaiFun]

yes... but isn't that all conditioned by personal Karma? being born with those genetic possibilities? isn't overcoming 'everything' whilst recognising that all fruit of today was our own seed planting of yesterday? so surely (with respect) it really isn't 'hurdles not of their making'?

Right with you CFM.

It's just that the new "impermanent & conditioned", with no memory of what went on before, receives the handicaps & some of the suffering.

We (ego) are the innocent conduit which inherit the khamma.

But then we (ego) are an illusion.

yep... right on! but I fear I am highjacking the Tiger thread with a very interesting debate on karma (again)

[Calico]

Somebody needs to make a video of Tiger Woods running from a golf club wielding blonde while Yakety Sax is playing. You can get good karma for that...

[tranquillize]

IF YOU CAN FIND A BETTER DEAL, TAKE IT!

January 6, 2010

http://www.anncoulter.com/cgi-local/article.cgi?article=349

What an aweful piece. It's pretty much how i would expect Ann Coulter to respond to this whole situation though. It amazes me that some people like Hume and Coulter suggest changing religions because it "offers" something better. People should be concerned with what's true, not with what appears to be a "better deal".