Views On Chiang Mai Vs Bkk / Pattaya

[wineaux]

We (family) are considering the move to Chiang Mai (from BKK) anyone with a similar experience advise for or against it?

The main (perceived) benefits for me are slighty cooler climate (in Winter), potential better cycling opportunities, cheaper land costs and cheaper schools (than BKK).

[Sparkles]

All of those and more in CM .Convenience of getting where you want to go in minutes rather than hours , good infrastructure, good hospitals , restaurants, shopping centres and "fresh" markets , airport, unlike the chaos at swampy and obviously a lot more. Immigration a breeze unlike Bangkok. Only downside if you need it is public transport and internet providers. We moved from Bangkok and dont regret it one bit. Pattaya ? a human zoo in my opinion but some like for reasons only they know.

[kurushektra]

Agree completely. Lived there 16 yrs and loved it. Many housing estates 15-20 mins from town. Good series of ring roads that get you anywhere fast. Super stores very well placed. You dont even have to go into town. I lived in town. But was single and loved that. 5 or more international schools. Good bus service with the red, green etc trucks. And then you have Thai culture to learn from and live with to broaden your views and fined peace. Good travel by plane to BKK Myanmar and other points. You'll love it.

[thrilled]

I was in Chiang Mai last year.I wasn't impressed.Prices are to high.I believe the reason to many farangs,they ruin the area.

[Asmerom]

I was in Chiang Mai last year.I wasn't impressed.Prices are to high.I believe the reason to many farangs,they ruin the area.

So, you were in Chiang Mai last year. Funny, I didn't notice you. Were you alone and how long did you grace the town with your prescence?

[uptheos]

I was in Chiang Mai last year.I wasn't impressed.Prices are to high.I believe the reason to many farangs,they ruin the area.

Too high compared to where?

[Ulysses G.]

Chiang Mai is probably the cheapest area in Thailand that has lots of things that farangs want: Western and ethnic restaurants, decent bakeries, wine shops, cigar stores, movie rental places, English libraries, erotic nightlife, WE TV, The Red Lion with your host Kevin, The Dukes, etc.

[Loaded]

I was in Chiang Mai last year.I wasn't impressed.Prices are to high.I believe the reason to many farangs,they ruin the area.

It's probably the cheapest place to live in Thailand if you know your way around.

[jackr]

I was in Chiang Mai last year.I wasn't impressed.Prices are to high.I believe the reason to many farangs,they ruin the area.

Troll

[caf]

Chiang Mai is probably the cheapest area in Thailand that has lots of things that farangs want: Western and ethnic restaurants, decent bakeries, wine shops, cigar stores, movie rental places, English libraries, erotic nightlife, WE TV, The Red Lion with your host Kevin, The Dukes, etc.

Cheaper than Bangkok but not the cheapest area in Thailand. There seems a correlation between number of tourists/expats and price levels. This is in the CM forum so responses may be skewed but members outside the areac may comment. Let's see.

As you say in the list there are good and bad points but on balance a good place.

caf

[PeaceBlondie]

I can't compare to BKK - never lived there. But I can't see why BKK has any advantage.

[Semper]

Chiang Mai is probably the cheapest area in Thailand that has lots of things that farangs want: Western and ethnic restaurants, decent bakeries, wine shops, cigar stores, movie rental places, English libraries, erotic nightlife, WE TV, The Red Lion with your host Kevin, The Dukes, etc.

[Ulysses G.]

I can't compare to BKK - never lived there. But I can't see why BKK has any advantage.

The "nightlife" in Bangkok is utterly fantastic. It is only so-so in Chiang Mai.

[wineaux]

Thanks for the input, I've only ever visited for a few days at a time so it's good to hear from some long term residents.

[Thakkar]

I can only speak for myself and family, and for us, here's a list of pros and cons:

Pros

Decent International schools, more affordable than BKK & Phuket

Lower cost of living compared to BKK, Phuket and Pattaya

More fresh air, except intermittently during the period between mid-February to mid- April every year

Friendlier locals

Nice housing available in many price ranges

Plenty of decent, second-hand bookstores

Enough expats to pick from if you want to form your own social group

Most groceries available

Fresher fruits and vegetables, locally grown

Traffic jams: few to none

Cons

Lacks proper public transport

Too quiet if you're the sort who likes the hurly-burly of the city

Too few cultural venues

Very limited choice for good live Western music

No serious public library

Not enough bookstores or choice of books, especially new books

Serious pollution, though intermittent, during the period between mid-February to mid- April every year

No seriously good Indian restaurant; no South Indian food

No Chinatown with its attendant availability of things Chinese

Too few international flights

Bad driving

Not all groceries available

[SantiSuk]

I'm a regular visitor. CM is a great place and I will possibly live there when my newborn needs proper schooling. Way more civilised than BKK. I worry it will get spoiled by an ever-burgeoning expat population (16,000 expats in the city area I read) though I don't see signs of that as a casual visitor

To correct a few posters:

Swampy ascribed as chaos? OTT by miles when compared to many international hub airports, but any regional airport is bound to be easier to use - on that basis CM airport is chaos cf Ubon Ratchatani airport.

The cheapest place in Thailand? Never - Isaan (and probably Pattaya) is much cheaper. Certainly when it comes to housing, hotels and eating out.

[Ulysses G.]

Chiang Mai is probably the cheapest area in Thailand that has lots of things that farangs want: Western and ethnic restaurants, decent bakeries, wine shops, cigar stores, movie rental places, English libraries, erotic nightlife, WE TV, The Red Lion with your host Kevin, The Dukes, etc.

I don't think that anywhere in Issan has anywhere the number of these things for foreigners that Chiang Mai has. but correct me if I'm wrong.

[siggie2]

After visiting Chiang Mai twice i did find the people much nicer than Bangkok.The Chiang Mai forums seem to be a nicer type of person also and not invaded by the BK Farangs,who seem to have a massive chip on their shoulders

[ThaiPauly]

I can't compare to BKK - never lived there. But I can't see why BKK has any advantage.

The "nightlife" in Bangkok is utterly fantastic. It is only so-so in Chiang Mai.

Nothing better to do in CN at night than stay in with a good book then:P

[Jingthing]

Well I can compare CM to Pattaya for the things that were decisive for me ...

CM, on average a better class of expats, tourists, and local Thais than Pattaya, long period of intolerable pollution during part of the year (a deal killer if you have lung health issues), a bit more "countercultural" in a good way, restaurants its a draw, some better in CM, some better in Pattaya, OK for public transport in the city core; I especially like the non-western "ethnic" restaurant there Miguel's Mexican, Songkran crazy in both places, mountain views are nice, more of a "real" Thailand feel

Pattaya -- good weather, cool ocean breezes, on the ocean (a big feature for some people), cleaner air overall than CM and Bangkok (may not be saying much), baht bus transport system excellent and cheap on standard routes, easier to get to Bangkok, near BKK, overall a bit more expensive than CM but not as much as some people seem to think

I chose Pattaya. I know I gave up a lot to do so, but you can only live in one place at a time.

I never considered Phuket or Bangkok.

Edited January 15, 2010 by Jingthing

[canopus1969]

Chiang Mai is probably the cheapest area in Thailand that has lots of things that farangs want: Western and ethnic restaurants, decent bakeries, wine shops, cigar stores, movie rental places, English libraries, erotic nightlife, WE TV, The Red Lion with your host Kevin, The Dukes, etc.

Just like Pattaya then

[el jefe]

The OP asked/stated:

"The main (perceived) benefits for me are slighty cooler climate (in Winter), potential better cycling opportunities,...."

I assume you're talking about bicycling. The road cycling here is great and I'm sure the mountain biking has got Bangkok beat too. 15 riders on our regular group ride yesterday morning. Perfect weather too.

[anonymouse]

I can't think of many valid reasons to live in Bangkok as a family apart from Bangkok offering more work opportunities.

Thakkar's pro's and con's I pretty much agree with,

though having so many second hand bookshops in CM negates the lack of new one's in my opinion

and there are flights to BKK & KL daily in which you can connect to anywhere in the world.

Cost wise It's going to be a lot cheaper than BKK, more expensive than other areas eg Isaan but plenty more Mod-Cons.

[jackr]

Cons

Lacks proper public transport - yep

Too quiet if you're the sort who likes the hurly-burly of the city - bags a bars, Thai and farang; how many does one need?

Too few cultural venues - Lanna culture, 300 temples, including hilltop temple/palace

Very limited choice for good live Western music - I''ve only ever come across any in the West

No serious public library - who needs a library in 2010?

Not enough bookstores or choice of books, especially new books - B2S, Airport Plaza

Serious pollution, though intermittent, during the period between mid-February to mid- April every year - better couple months than 365x24/7

No seriously good Indian restaurant; no South Indian food - try India or the UK

No Chinatown with its attendant availability of things Chinese - top end Thanon Chiang Moi

Too few international flights - Yes, a UK, flight would be nice, although is probably a good thing there isn't one

Bad driving - ubiquitous on this continent I'm afraid

Not all groceries available - try Rim Ping, everything there.

Bangkok's ok for a squirt but for me is a typical, characterless metropolis, while Pattaya is chalk n cheese and best compared with Phuket or somewhere similar.

[Thakkar]

Cons

Lacks proper public transport - yep

Too quiet if you're the sort who likes the hurly-burly of the city - bags a bars, Thai and farang; how many does one need?

Museums, art galleries, orchestral performances, visiting international performances. "hurly-burly of the city" means more than bar life. In fact I wasn't even thinking of nightlife when I wrote that. Big cities have a certain zippy vibe that is attractive to many people. I wanted to convey to the OP that if that was his thing, then he won't find it in CM. And since you bring up nightlife, I'm told that when it comes to clubbing, CM can't hold a candle to BKK. I can't verify that as I haven't gone clubbing in 2 decades.

-0-

Too few cultural venues - Lanna culture, 300 temples, including hilltop temple/palace

See above. I'm not saying there aren't any, just far fewer compared to BKK as it's the comparison the OP is interested in.

-0-

Very limited choice for good live Western music - I''ve only ever come across any in the West

Great venues are thin on the ground in BKK as well, but again, things are worse in CM. in BKK many hotels have a decent band, string quartet or jazz group.

-0-

No serious public library - who needs a library in 2010?

Surely you're just feeling frivolous and being a little flippant, because I can't believe you're serious. Any city worth it's salt should have at least one publicly-funded large, dust-free air conditioned hall filled with thousands of expertly bound volumes where the only requirement to entry is curiosity. The internet doesn't change that.

-0-

Not enough bookstores or choice of books, especially new books - B2S, Airport Plaza

And Bookazine. But book choices in these places are laughable. 

-0-

Serious pollution, though intermittent, during the period between mid-February to mid- April every year - better couple months than 365x24/7

Actually it's just a couple of weeks, and most of the rest of the year, it *is* better than BKK, and possibly Pattaya. But during those god-awful weeks, CM is in the 'con' column.

-0-

No seriously good Indian restaurant; no South Indian food - try India or the UK

Again, the comparison is to BKK and Pattaya, both of which have better Indian restaurants. For the *best* Indian restaurants, I believe you are right, that is: UK (not India, unless it's at my mom's )

-0-

No Chinatown with its attendant availability of things Chinese - top end Thanon Chiang Moi

Bangkok's Chinatown is a real Chinatown. The one here is more of a China toytown, but you're right, there is one.

-0-

Too few international flights - Yes, a UK, flight would be nice, although is probably a good thing there isn't one

Come to think of it, I agree. It's a slight inconvenience, but one the whole, it's probably a good thing that there are so few international flights.

-0-

Bad driving - ubiquitous on this continent I'm afraid

Yes, and coupled with lack of public transport means no choice but to venture out in our cars/bikes.

-0-

Not all groceries available - try Rim Ping, everything there.

Yes, plenty of choices at Rimping and Tops Supermarket as well. Not 'everything' though. Both BKK and Pattaya offer wider choices. Still, you're not far off, the OP will not want for much in CM when it comes to groceries.

I assume that like me, you've picked to live in CM, so on the 'pros' we're in agreement.

[jackr]

Yep, sorry, I was being flippant. Well dissected.

[kurushektra]

Well CM can be dicidedly bucholic vis culture and books and very exciting night life.. This is true. Good for a family settling in. A quieter place certainly. All the food you could want at Carrefour, Makro Big C. Rimping and Top just got tooo expensive. There are one or two farmers markets for fresh veggies. The market at CMU on Thursdays... there are two. Fresh veggies everywhere. All those open air markets. There's the everyday farmers market wholesale place all around the Tessaban. It's supperb.

The flowers at the flower market next to the river are really out of this world.

Indian resto. Just outside the South gate of the city. Small place. Great.

Chinese.... welll Warrorot and across form Kasem's near there. ( You do know Kasems dont you?)

Books true. But try George at Backstreet. He's got the best resources, but the small one near Tapae Gate, outside the inner city just south of Tapae.... White run. Great guy.

There is lots of classical music at Payab. Get on their mailing list. CMU has some as well. The North Gate is supperb for Jazz. At least their house band is.

And there's plenty of small thai restos here and there, like th Joke place on innner moat road north at corner of Wat Chiang Man. it;s a national treasure. The veggie place near 3 Kings is superb. Takeaway if you like. And the evening eating places along the road leading south from Wat Pra Singh. And the pad Thai place first discovered by the Lonley PLanet guy, that later moved to the road behind Kasem just mentioned.

Cheap stuff comes in the form of the japanese discount stores 65B for anything in the store. What a find that was. In the shopping mall with thr Rimping near Airport.

God there are so many good places. But you have to go on your own and find them. If it looks too nice, then it will be expensive.

There's a whole eating trip in the evenings in the center of CMU and veggies during the day.

But it is true, prices have gone up and politeness has gone down since more falangs come into town and really dont know how to fit in and dont really care. Thais dont like that.

[IanForbes]

I was in Chiang Mai last year.I wasn't impressed.Prices are to high.I believe the reason to many farangs,they ruin the area.

Too high compared to where?

Too high compared to Lom Sak (due east of Phitsanulok).

There's a HUGE difference between living as a single adult and living as a family with children. I can't speak with any knowledge on living in the suburbs of Bangkok, but the heart of the city is a nightmare of traffic and learning your way around the mess must take forever to understand. By contrast, Chiang Mai is a walk in the park. Certainly, Bangkok has more of everything, but who wants to try driving through it and parking to get to those special places? Chiang Mai isn't the easiest place to park a car, but it can be done if you don't mind walking a few blocks. The Thai locals just double and triple park with no concern about blocking other people in.

The only drawback of Chiang Mai would be the burning polution that seems to occur every March.

I've said many times that Chiang Mai is an ideal size city that caters to farangs. There is always someone who can answer a question spoken in English, and that is more than I can say for 95% of other cities in Thailand.

Edited January 16, 2010 by IanForbes

[Thakkar]

<snip>

Chinese.... welll Warrorot and across form Kasem's near there. ( You do know Kasems dont you?)

<snip>

There is lots of classical music at Payab. Get on their mailing list. CMU has some as well. The North Gate is supperb for Jazz. At least their house band is.

<snip>

There's a whole eating trip in the evenings in the center of CMU and veggies during the day.

<snip>

Thanks for some of those tips, I'll check them out. I do need to get out a little more, it seems.

[Ricardo]

I was in Chiang Mai last year.I wasn't impressed.Prices are to high.I believe the reason to many farangs,they ruin the area.

Agreed, a million local Thai residents must be simply fuming, that 25,000 farang-residents have so-completely caused the cost-of-living to go through-the-roof here.

After visiting Chiang Mai twice i did find the people much nicer than Bangkok.The Chiang Mai forums seem to be a nicer type of person also and not invaded by the BK Farangs,who seem to have a massive chip on their shoulders

Perhaps we need a new thread, to discuss 'massive chips', or should we keep posting in the fish-and-chips thread ?

Books true. But try George at Backstreet. He's got the best resources, but the small one near Tapae Gate, outside the inner city just south of Tapae.... White run. Great guy.

Not to mention forum-sponsor UG & Gecko-Books next-doors to Backstreet-Books, or several other 2nd-hand-book stores, they're one reason we chose C.M. as our new home-town. And Suriwong isn't too bad, for maps or brand-new books, in a provincial-town like this.

Edited January 16, 2010 by Ricardo