Uk Expat Tax Adviser?

[eric31]

Can anyone recommend a good UK expat tax adviser? Someone Phuket based (or maybe Bangkok) experienced in dealing with the UK tax authorities regarding residency status. Thanks.

[Jingjok]

I wouldn't trust anyone in Phuket with your personal financial details. A sweeping statement I know, but having been here for that time (as a tax exile) it’s my true opinion.

I took advice from my bank before leaving, which cost me £1,500 but on reflection comprised nothing which I couldn’t have looked up on the net in a day.

From memory, before leaving one fills in a boring form and sends it to the non-residents department to advise them you are going off-shore. Then be in UK for no more that 90 days per tax year and you’re done.

You will be checked for about two or three years – during which time you still need to supply UK tax returns – after that you get a letter from the Revenue effectively saying goodbye, and henceforth no tax returns are needed. At this stage it is a legal requirement to open a bottle of Bollinger, jump up and down making whooping noises then jump naked into your pool.

BTW, the 90 days is a little simplified. You can in fact be in UK for up to 180 (?183) days in any one tax year, so long as the average over each three years does not exceed 90 days per year, on a rolling basis.

Personally, I kept it simple by never exceeding 90 days in any one year.

Thailand and Malaysia (the latter even more so) are excellent tax havens, although they are little-known as such. Neither tax worldwide assets or remitted offshore income. Only local income is taxed, and that at reasonable rates. Malaysia allows the freehold purchase of land and property. There is no capital gains or inheritance tax.

Good luck with your plans. Residency is not a matter of opinion - the rules are very clear, and fairly enforced - so professional advisers are really not needed.

You're lucky you are not from the US, whose citizens cannot, I believe, ever become legally off-shore for revenue purposes.

[briley]

Just to echo Jingjok the rules are straight forward and on the web site.

In addition Inland Revenue are actually there to help you and will answer questions and tell you the rules. Anonymously if you want.

[chiang mai]

Google HMRC6 and download the document you find there - it's chapter and verse from The Revenue regarding tax and residency et al for expats, it's easy to read, easily understandable and highly illuminating. Feel free to PM me if any questions I may be able to answer but be warned, you're screwed before you even begin, HMRC6 will explain!

[Jingjok]

Google HMRC6 and download the document you find there...

Thanks for the reminder. I just read it myself after a break of five years. Quite a few things have changed, primarily the 'domicile' provisions, which rarely concern ex-pats leaving the UK.

I was badly wrong on one point - residence can now be a matter of opinion: it's no longer just the physical absence requirements like before. Maintaining a family or property in the UK could be taken into consideration when assessing your residence status. I believe that in borderline or investigated cases the decision would be based on one’s overall lifestyle, social life, travel patterns, ownership of a primary house overseas and so on. All negotiable, and appealable if you disagree.

...but be warned, you're screwed before you even begin, HMRC6 will explain!

Why? Did I miss something?

[chiang mai]

Google HMRC6 and download the document you find there...

Thanks for the reminder. I just read it myself after a break of five years. Quite a few things have changed, primarily the 'domicile' provisions, which rarely concern ex-pats leaving the UK.

I was badly wrong on one point - residence can now be a matter of opinion: it's no longer just the physical absence requirements like before. Maintaining a family or property in the UK could be taken into consideration when assessing your residence status. I believe that in borderline or investigated cases the decision would be based on one’s overall lifestyle, social life, travel patterns, ownership of a primary house overseas and so on. All negotiable, and appealable if you disagree.

...but be warned, you're screwed before you even begin, HMRC6 will explain!

Why? Did I miss something?

No you probably haven't, that remark was simply meant to point out that, as you say, that things have changed considerably since most of us looked at the "rules". The part that I find most irritating is the rule regarding "arising" income which reflects the US taxable income position quite closely. Also, that residency can be defined by lifestyle which is hugely subjective - yes you can appeal a decision but the cost of doing so is prohibitive to say the least. I've been out of the UK system for many years, free and clear, but I was contemplating reacquiring a UK base this year and splitting my time between the UK and Asia. After reading HMRC6 I now realize that it's quite difficult to sever residency ties with the UK for tax purposes and that it can take a lot of time - by contrast, reacquiring those ties can be done almost overnight, as far as the Revenue is concerned, which has made me reconsider my plans. On a related point, I tried recently to change my domicile and I asked The Revenue for an opinion on what I had done. I have spent over twenty five years outside the UK but despite this, The Revenue implied that as long as I had a single bank account remaining in the UK it would be unlikely to accept the change for IHT purposes! Good luck.

[Jingjok]

No you probably haven't, that remark was simply meant to point out that, as you say, that things have changed considerably since most of us looked at the "rules". The part that I find most irritating is the rule regarding "arising" income which reflects the US taxable income position quite closely. Also, that residency can be defined by lifestyle which is hugely subjective - yes you can appeal a decision but the cost of doing so is prohibitive to say the least. I've been out of the UK system for many years, free and clear, but I was contemplating reacquiring a UK base this year and splitting my time between the UK and Asia. After reading HMRC6 I now realize that it's quite difficult to sever residency ties with the UK for tax purposes and that it can take a lot of time - by contrast, reacquiring those ties can be done almost overnight, as far as the Revenue is concerned, which has made me reconsider my plans. On a related point, I tried recently to change my domicile and I asked The Revenue for an opinion on what I had done. I have spent over twenty five years outside the UK but despite this, The Revenue implied that as long as I had a single bank account remaining in the UK it would be unlikely to accept the change for IHT purposes! Good luck.

All good points, most interesting. I agree that it is getting harder, and as the UK government approaches bankruptcy, loss of the AAA credit rating, and hence more desperate for whatever additional loot it can extort from formerly economically active people, like us, who simply say 'b@llocks' and leave the place once the screw is tightened too hard, it will get worse.

I agree that IHT is the most scary one. My solution is to encourage my children to become expats too.

It's interesting that when I discuss this problem with my friends in Malaysia, especially the Chinese, they are absolutely astounded that such a tax can even exist, let alone be enforced at 40%. Many think I am making it up.

[chiang mai]

Not to belabour this point but I wonder how many UK expats are truly aware of the Revenue rules these days, I still read posts occasionally where the poster suggests that their overseas income is not liable to tax as long as it remains overseas. I also wonder how many people are setting themselves up for a fall by trying to get the best of both worlds, a life/business in Thailand where it's cheaper and warm plus a UK base/home, NHS and benefits! The final point about awareness on this front is how people understand that the Revenue can tax your overseas earnings unless you have been overseas for at least five years. Imagine going home again after say four years having changed your mind about becoming an expat and finding that HMRC wants a slice of your dividend income etc for the past few years, what a thought.

[Jingjok]

Not to belabour this point but I wonder how many UK expats are truly aware of the Revenue rules these days, I still read posts occasionally where the poster suggests that their overseas income is not liable to tax as long as it remains overseas. I also wonder how many people are setting themselves up for a fall by trying to get the best of both worlds, a life/business in Thailand where it's cheaper and warm plus a UK base/home, NHS and benefits! The final point about awareness on this front is how people understand that the Revenue can tax your overseas earnings unless you have been overseas for at least five years. Imagine going home again after say four years having changed your mind about becoming an expat and finding that HMRC wants a slice of your dividend income etc for the past few years, what a thought.

Yes, five FULL TAX YEARS. Or you arrive home to a retrospective tax bill on everything you have earned whilst away: income, capital gains, rental income, every dam_n thing. Just like you’d never left.

Does the word ‘disincentive’ come to mind?

Then when you die the UK embassy with which you foolishly registered, and validates the probate forms for your children, helps the revenue collect 40% of the value of all your assets here.

In cash please.

I don’t think so.

[Jingjok]

Hey, Chiang Mai, we're acting as the tax advisors that the OP wanted!

What's your hourly rate? Cash (or alcoholic liquids) of course

[chiang mai]

Hey, Chiang Mai, we're acting as the tax advisors that the OP wanted!

What's your hourly rate? Cash (or alcoholic liquids) of course

I could easily be persuaded to do it for a percentage of the money saved, there again, there are some things that are worth doing just for the satisfaction of helping folks not get screwed by HMRC. The h_ll with Captain Marvel and such, it's Tax Crusader Man for me, think I'll have the wife knock me up a cape or two this afternoon! (and for the benefit of our across the Atlantic cousins: to "knock up", a peculiarly British term of days past meaning to make and nothing to do with sex).

[Jingjok]

... I'll have the wife knock me up a cape or two this afternoon! ...

Hey, TC , you mean you don't have a stock of capes already?

Amateur.

[Trickcyclist]

Be Warned:-

UK IHT is governed by the domicile rules and not residency for tax purposes. Therefore use the IHT allowances, get rid of assets and cover the rest with insurance in trust, if affordable.

You can change your domicile if you feel the overall picture will not be compromised. But be careful that the new domicile IHT situ is not worse than UK's, or, you leave your estate and beneficiaries charged to both old and new domicile, which happened to an acquaintance of mine - father's estate hammered by both old and new domicle.

No you probably haven't, that remark was simply meant to point out that, as you say, that things have changed considerably since most of us looked at the "rules". The part that I find most irritating is the rule regarding "arising" income which reflects the US taxable income position quite closely. Also, that residency can be defined by lifestyle which is hugely subjective - yes you can appeal a decision but the cost of doing so is prohibitive to say the least. I've been out of the UK system for many years, free and clear, but I was contemplating reacquiring a UK base this year and splitting my time between the UK and Asia. After reading HMRC6 I now realize that it's quite difficult to sever residency ties with the UK for tax purposes and that it can take a lot of time - by contrast, reacquiring those ties can be done almost overnight, as far as the Revenue is concerned, which has made me reconsider my plans. On a related point, I tried recently to change my domicile and I asked The Revenue for an opinion on what I had done. I have spent over twenty five years outside the UK but despite this, The Revenue implied that as long as I had a single bank account remaining in the UK it would be unlikely to accept the change for IHT purposes! Good luck.

All good points, most interesting. I agree that it is getting harder, and as the UK government approaches bankruptcy, loss of the AAA credit rating, and hence more desperate for whatever additional loot it can extort from formerly economically active people, like us, who simply say 'b@llocks' and leave the place once the screw is tightened too hard, it will get worse.

I agree that IHT is the most scary one. My solution is to encourage my children to become expats too.

It's interesting that when I discuss this problem with my friends in Malaysia, especially the Chinese, they are absolutely astounded that such a tax can even exist, let alone be enforced at 40%. Many think I am making it up.