Possible Scenarios On The Outcome Of Thaksin's Case

[way2muchcoffee]

Well you work that out for yourself, and that will give you some idea of the megascale of the crimes of the junta, the PAD, and the yellowshirts.

Perhaps you would care to expound on your assertions?

[mca]

Give us a list of just punishments to fit the crimes of a man who ordered the murder of thousands,

Well going by the previous just punishments meted out to such luminaries as Suchinda Kraprayoon and Thanom Kittikachorn absolutely SFA I reckon.

Edited January 19, 2010 by mca

[animatic]

Just punishment to fit the crime is of course fair.

Civil trials don't have the same level of burden of proof as criminal ones.

Just ask O.J. Simpson that one.

There appears to be enough evidence to support a criminal action none the less.

And of course returning the cash and expecting it to come back later is absurd.

The man threatens civil war for his own ends, he would not give the money back.

If we look at his doings going back to 1997 and the botched Chavalit currency devaluation,

then maybe there isn't much he had invested legally, since it is 'fruit of a poisoned tree' in legal terms.

Take the money and he has less power to hide more old charges, since those with knowledge

would have less reason to protect him with nothing to be gained by it.

Go on then ,

Give us a list of just punishments to fit the crimes of the junta, the PAD, and the yellowshirts.

No my job description.

Just because you like to harp on this doesn't mean we need to.

It is for the courts to decide not me.

PAD AKA Yellow shirts are in the court system now, time will tell.

The Junta handed back power to the people after a new constitution was voted in.

Neither clinging to power, nor feeling satisfied that had enjoyed their tenure as leaders.

There was a palpable sense of relief to be out of the hot seat, even leaving it to Samak.

After that they essentially backed away. But you can argue NOT defending a flailing Somchai

was the same military leaders, but that isn't proven by news accounts, nor anecdotal evidence of that time.

Removing Thaksin can only be determined ultimately good or bad in the full eyes of history,

not solely in the eyes of his partisans now, too much current bias to give the issue a fair hearing.

When ALL his crimes and misdemeanors and most facts are out,

then a true determination can be written. Now is too soon to tell.

But my observation of the run up to this drastic change was that

Thaksin was getting dangerously unstable, and I expect those

closer to him saw this even clearer than I.

Again, time and history will tell the rationality of that least violent of coups.

In the recent history of the Thai military there are much worse things,

that they might be held accountable for.

Edited January 19, 2010 by animatic

[SeanMoran]

I propose an improved form of democratic parliament, where only those who have served at least 30 days in prison as innocent persons and then released shall be elected to government.

A rule like that might help Thaksin get his act together, as well as improve policies.

[ballpoint]

Seizure before judgement is a rather draconian step. It assumes that someone is guilty and puts the burden of proving one's innocence onto the accused. Most advanced and enlightened judicial systems act on the premise is that one is not guilty until proven guilty. It's not perfect, but it acts to protect the rights of the people. Perhaps that is what the gentleman was attempting to express.

But telling the court what verdict to reach, and even going into the details of how to split up the money is okay?

[animatic]

Well you work that out for yourself, and that will give you some idea of the megascale of the crimes of the junta, the PAD, and the yellowshirts.

Perhaps you would care to expound on your assertions?

Might that be too taxing for the lad?

A source of typers cramp maybe.

No Sootyportmanteau prefers to ask others to do the work for him.

Ask questions but give no hard answers to questions.. oh wait that's "Style".

[ballpoint]

In my view there's no doubt that Thaksin made his initial fortune more or less honestly.Far fewer questions to be asked than in the case of poorly paid generals who have acquired great wealth.

Any fewer than how a police captain managed to become the richest man in Thailand, before buying a political party and giving all the rest away to his family and servants, and then mysteriously getting it back again in order to sell it all to the Singaporians?

[Dustybin]

Well you work that out for yourself, and that will give you some idea of the megascale of the crimes of the junta, the PAD, and the yellowshirts.

Perhaps you would care to expound on your assertions?

Might that be too taxing for the lad?

A source of typers cramp maybe.

No Sootyportmanteau prefers to ask others to do the work for him.

Ask questions but give no hard answers to questions.. oh wait that's "Style".

Well you know that one's Style is cramped on here, as one cannot ask the real hard questions here, or give the real hard answers here.

You are in your fitting environment, a Straightjacket democracy

[brahmburgers]

Did T mail back the medallions and citations that were stripped from his vest?

I somehow doubt it.

[animatic]

More boiler plate, of naming a target that won't answer back...

way too easy. And so few even buy the premise.

Getting paid by the word, hours logged, or just concepts?

So Thaksin thinks enough of a stink will get some cash in hand.

It seems very unlikely, it's like handing bullets to someone who is

pulling the trigger on an empty chamber aimed at your face:

And you saying ' See I am giving you bullets, so I hope you won't shoot me with them...'

A non-starter in rational circles.

So what is the logical step... well a big rally will turn very threatening IF the numbers grow large enough,

their PR effort is in full swing to try and drum up a dust encrusted mob from the dumpsters to run rampant.

Then when the fear of embarrassing destruction is in the air make threats to unleash the retired dogs of war

that Thaksin has been recruiting, at that point it is up to the current working generals to see it coming

and cut em off at the pass.

The hoped for response on one side is close them down quickly and quietly,

they other side wants TV cameras, reporters of the world, seeing a maelstrom of army caused violence.

And with uniforms on BOTH sides, it is possible to just tag what ever footage you like to support your agenda.

So gov and army will endeavor to minimize that possibility.

Thaksin can't rally the people with out blood in the streets and a boggieman to blame for it.

Anupong knows this and will likely NOT put hot heads in charge on his side.

At present this is all still threat posturing, if the bad video clips don't appear.

AFTER the verdict goes against he has only serious violence and insurrection left in his quiver.

So expect the Lao Kao and money to flow like cheap plonk wine and red minions to

race the streets in late feb or early march.

I certainly pray this doesn't go this way, but Thaksin gets less clear under pressure and anger.

Losing 76 billion baht is a LOT of anger to hold under pressure.

Edited January 19, 2010 by animatic

[Davidusaf99]

I'd say that is pretty accurate.

[Dustybin]

And not re-numerated inversely proportional to the word count.

[animatic]

(1) Remunerated, old son.

(2) No, not a haypenny, centime, farthing, sous or drakmar, nor lonesome baht

(3) is given to me for writing on TVF. I work for practical and philosophical reasons.

Oh wait re-numerated.

Yes I went back and counted my lines...

ching, ching, the register rings, that earned me exactly....

ZIP!

And my proboscis's still it's in original form.. ALL day.

Edited January 19, 2010 by animatic

[scorecard]

More boiler plate, of naming a target that won't answer back...

way too easy. And so few even buy the premise.

Getting paid by the word, hours logged, or just concepts?

So Thaksin thinks enough of a stink will get some cash in hand.

It seems very unlikely, it's like handing bullets to someone who is

pulling the trigger on an empty chamber aimed at your face:

And you saying ' See I am giving you bullets, so I hope you won't shoot me with them...'

A non-starter in rational circles.

So what is the logical step... well a big rally will turn very threatening IF the numbers grow large enough,

their PR effort is in full swing to try and drum up a dust encrusted mob from the dumpsters to run rampant.

Then when the fear of embarrassing destruction is in the air make threats to unleash the retired dogs of war

that Thaksin has been recruiting, at that point it is up to the current working generals to see it coming

and cut em off at the pass.

The hoped for response on one side is close them down quickly and quietly,

they other side wants TV cameras, reporters of the world, seeing a maelstrom of army caused violence.

And with uniforms on BOTH sides, it is possible to just tag what ever footage you like to support your agenda.

So gov and army will endeavor to minimize that possibility.

Thaksin can't rally the people with out blood in the streets and a boggieman to blame for it.

Anupong knows this and will likely NOT put hot heads in charge on his side.

At present this is all still threat posturing, if the bad video clips don't appear.

AFTER the verdict goes against he has only serious violence and insurrection left in his quiver.

So expect the Lao Kao and money to flow like cheap plonk wine and red minions to

race the streets in late feb or early march.

I certainly pray this doesn't go this way, but Thaksin gets less clear under pressure and anger.

Losing 76 billion baht is a LOT of anger to hold under pressure.

Is there an unknown at this point in time? Is it perhaps possible that if the red shirts try to start up serious violence and mayhem on a very large scale that the ordinary citizenry will also take to the streets and 'fight' the red shirts?

I wouldn't rule that out.

I suspect there is a large percentage of Thais (perhaps the more informed Thais and I'm not meaning the 'elites', whatever that means) who are well realizing that a Taxsin return with red shirt leaders (e.g. Jatuporn, Arisman. And Chalerm, Sudarat, etc) heading various key ministries is simply not acceptable for Thailand.

[mca]

Any fewer than how a police captain managed to become the richest man in Thailand,

Can't recall him ever being the richest man in Thailand. Link please?

[Publicus]

Any fewer than how a police captain managed to become the richest man in Thailand,

Can't recall him ever being the richest man in Thailand. Link please?

TVF, the hub of links -or the demand for the authoritative documented source, or the citation, the quotation, the equivalent of a legal brief etc. We're forumists, however, who do do research while not necessarily being researchers of various and sundry matters, who do some offerings of links when most appropriate, suggest readings which may be of mutual interest or reference etc.  

[mca]

So basically he was never the richest then.

[ballpoint]

So basically he was never the richest then.

Just how long have you been in Thailand? It was common knowledge back in the '90's that he was the richest man in the country. He even used it in his election campaign, something along the lines of "I'm already the richest man in the country, so I don't need to be corrupt". Yeah, he was a congenital liar back then too.

Just to show I'm not making it up...

"After all, Thaksin is Thailand's richest man: His family controls companies that account for more than 13% of the Thai stock market's $30 billion capitalization."

http://www.businessweek.com/2001/01_04/b3716187.htm

[mca]

Hopefully my attempt to be cryptic will be understood (and I'm not being sarcastic) but when it comes to the richest let's just say there's a pachyderm bumping into the furniture.

[Publicus]

Hopefully my attempt to be cryptic will be understood (and I'm not being sarcastic) but when it comes to the richest let's just say there's a pachyderm bumping into the furniture.

As contrasted to the bull in the china shoppe?

[cgn]

So basically he was never the richest then.

Just how long have you been in Thailand? It was common knowledge back in the '90's that he was the richest man in the country. He even used it in his election campaign, something along the lines of "I'm already the richest man in the country, so I don't need to be corrupt". Yeah, he was a congenital liar back then too.

Just to show I'm not making it up...

"After all, Thaksin is Thailand's richest man: His family controls companies that account for more than 13% of the Thai stock market's $30 billion capitalization."

at one time richer than anyone in Thailand

thaivisa.com/forum/AEC-Freezes-Thaksin-s-Assets-Proce-t124937.html&view=findpost&p=1523504

thaivisa.com/forum/findpost-p2747557.html&hl=thaksin++richest

thaivisa.com/forum/findpost-p1951391.html&hl=thaksin++richest