Going Back To Thailand After Living In Usa Illegally

[Jingthing]

I agree cheap sympathy won't help the OP but I have offered it as a balance against the redneck brigade. He is looking for advice and specifically he knows he may end up in Thailand against his free will so perhaps he can learn something about what he may encounter in Thailand if it comes to that. People have offered some info about the Thai military; I don't know how accurate it is, but its a start.

However, he most def is NOT looking for the moral police. Please stop it. It is completely uncalled for.

Going to school was without a doubt the SMARTEST thing he could have done. It may still work out if he gets very lucky to get legalized via the Dream Act. If not, he at least will have a leg up if he is forced to move to Thailand and being educated is the only hope he has of migrating to a third Anglo country. I think it would have been even smarter to become fluent in Thai given his status, but remember the OP has become an American in culture, and the stereotype that Americans suck at foreign languages is often true (ha ha).

Thailand is foreign to him regardless of his passport. Imagine if some legal force was pushing you to go to Poland (or fill in the blank) and you had no desire to migrate to Poland and did not speak Polish and your entire full life was where you are now.

The idea of getting an education visa and then joining the military is beyond absurd considering his multi-year illegal status in the US.

Edited January 25, 2010 by Jingthing

[ryukn]

You do realise that he has run up debts that there's NO WAY he couldn't have known that he couldn't have paid since he couldn't join the workforce? It isn't as if by the time he was old enough to get those loans he didn't realise he was 'undocumented'! How can you have sympathy for that?

I don't know how you could say this about me. You know nothing about my situation. Yes, I enrolled in public school which American tax payers are paying for, but what other choice did I have? In this country I have been an outstanding citizen that has contributed to my community 100x more than what I took in my education.

But I am not here to ask for sympathy or to convince anybody of my innocence. I realize that I am in violation of the law, even if it was out of my control. People like you can point fingers and blame us, but what is your solution to this problem? You want to deny us of all our rights because we were not born in this country. You deny us health care, and prohibit us from even purchasing our own health insurance. I must quote Bill Maher here when he asks "What do they want to do with a bleeding Mexican?"

The debt that I have is from my living expenses and college tuition, and I have no intention of abandoning it. I have never missed a payment and my credit is in good standing. I am working right now for pennies a day to pay it off. If it takes me the rest of my life to pay it off, then that is my business. I don't see how you are in any position to judge me.

I want to thank everyone who has been helpful and supportive to me on this thread. I will no longer be posting here as I feel that this topic has gotten too political, which has distracted from its original purpose. If you would like to ask me questions, or offer advice, please do so through PM.

[ericthai]

I think the OP is a special case. He didn't make the move when he was a boy to get into this situation. It happened to him. Naturally he would feel more American than Thai. I am not surprised a person like that wouldn't be jumping cartwheels about doing Thai military service. Most Thai young men aren't into it either, why should he be? As far as his loans, I am sure if he was able to become US legal he would be in the same boat as any other student with such debt. He would hassled by creditors about it for the rest of his life and if he was able, he would be as likely to pay it as anyone else. Have some compassion please for someone in a very painful situation which he did not create. Getting a college education under these conditions is very admirable. I think it is a shame for the US to throw out a productive, hard working person like that who is already a fully adjusted American but without documents.

Bottom line, he didn't come here for moral lectures, he asked for suggestions and advise. I doubt we can help him much, but the impulse to diss him seems to be very distasteful.

BTW, someone like the OP could probably enlist in the US army and gain citizenship that way. That would involve almost definitely fighting in Afghanistan. That's a hard choice, clearly not for everyone.

Thank you for your compassion. You are right, I did not choose to break the law and overstay my visa... this whole situation was out of my hands and I have tried to make the best of it. The US realizes that there are many people like me in the country right now... young educated adults with no criminal history. And of course they do not want to throw us out... but because we are here illegally, there is much debate over how to handle it. Like many others, the country is split in half on this issue. I think racism plays a big role... many people associate illegals with Mexicans.

You mentioned that not all thai men have to enlist in the military. Would you happen to know the details on this? I have some extended family back in Thailand... I will be contacting them to see if they can find out for me. I'm also going to contact the thai consulate here in the US.

As for enlisting in the US Military... that is not possible. They CURRENTLY accept only permanent residents and citizens.

According to the Constitution of the Kingdom, serving in the Armed Forces is a duty of all Thai citizens. However only males over the age of 21, who have not gone through reserve training are subjected to a random draft.

Those chosen randomly are subjected to twenty-four months fulltime service, while volunteers are subjected to eighteen months service, depending on their education.

Let me correct this a little. at age 18 you must enlist, then between age 21-30 you can be called for duty, which is done by a ballot. If you volunteer then maximum is 18 months, minimum is 6 months which yes, depends on your eduction and since you have a bachelors degree you will only be required to 6 months.

Now I really suggest you wait things out and see how it goes with the DREAM act.

wish you all the best!!!!

Edited January 25, 2010 by ericthai

[WarpSpeed]

check out: http://dreamact.info/

many people are confident that it will pass in 2010 because democrats are in power and have the majority. like i mentioned before, I have 1 year left before I graduate from college... so i will be sticking around until the end of 2010. this bill has been shot down before in the past. the country is just too divided on issues like this.

there are a lot of higher priority items that the Obama administration must address before handling immigration reform. but i do believe that it will pass eventually... but who knows when.

But once his health care plan fails miserably he'll need a new attempt at a success and will put much of his effort into this one..

[Jingthing]

Ryukn, I certainly understand why you would want to stop posting here. Believe me, most people here understand your situation and do not judge you, and wish you the best in whatever country you end up in.

Edited January 25, 2010 by Jingthing

[moe666]

Good luck you are kind of between a rock and a hard place.

[rebbu]

Don't stop posting OP as not every one is as bitter as some of the posters. I feel that if you keep syudying and keep paying your debts you will indeed find a solution. It seems to be a sad indication of the state of affairs on our planet that when somebody puts their hand out for help it gets bitten. I am only sorry that I do not have any more advice to help you with your problem.

[WarpSpeed]

5. You could become fluent in Thai in one year dont worry about that at all. You will get a good job in computer systems in Thailand because of your education and should not have to teach English.

Actually this is very true especially speaking good English and most importantly understanding it..

As well his other advice about learning more Thai while your still there is also solid. There is no reason if you still plan another year in college that you can not learn more Thai from your parents by computer chatting which I'm sure you do anyways if you are away from them and if not even better, so that you are plenty proficient when/if you come over here..

My wife is Chinese and learned more then passable Thai in one month... I really hate her...

Personally I still would not leave if I were in your shoes but that's another issue altogether..

[Jingthing]

Can't Chinese (whatever dialect) speakers learn tonal languages easier than westerners?

My understanding is that for the average westerner working to become fluent in Thai, at an advanced reading and writing level that would be consistent with a lot of high level employment, you are talking five to ten years. Its one thing giving directions to a taxi driver, its another thing doing complex work activities in Thai.

Edited January 25, 2010 by Jingthing

[WarpSpeed]

i can't believe some of the things i am reading here.

I also can not believe some of the inconsiderate and non constructive answers that you are receiving from some of the people on this board. You have found yourself in a position that you did not create and now that you find that you have inadvertently broken that law, you are trying to do something about it. I personally think that you are doing a very honourable thing and also that some of the answers that you have been given are far from honourable. I find it ironic that some of the sad replies are from US Nationals, who are indeed residing in your country of birth!

Take note of the options given by the good guys, Jingthing, Beentheredonethat and Ijustwannateach along with a few others. I sincerely hope you find a good solutions to your problems. Sorry that I can not offer any advice regarding US residency, but I am from England, so not qualified to answer.

Good Luck,

Rick

Not me?????? *sigh*

[WarpSpeed]

Don't stop posting OP as not every one is as bitter as some of the posters. I feel that if you keep syudying and keep paying your debts you will indeed find a solution. It seems to be a sad indication of the state of affairs on our planet that when somebody puts their hand out for help it gets bitten. I am only sorry that I do not have any more advice to help you with your problem.

Agreed, I have every reason beyond your wildest dreams to be bitter but I'm not judging the OP as I too had a childhood that was not in my control and brought me to places I am still struggling to deal with and only just recently came to realize had a major detrimental effect on my entire life..

Edited January 25, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[WarpSpeed]

Can't Chinese (whatever dialect) speakers learn tonal languages easier than westerners?

My understanding is that for the average westerner working to become fluent in Thai, at an advanced reading and writing level that would be consistent with a lot of high level employment, you are talking five to ten years. Its one thing giving directions to a taxi driver, its another thing doing complex work activities in Thai.

It sure seems that way but it also comes down to old dogs and new tricks.. She was quite young when she learned still in her early twenties.. She speaks 3 different dialects of Chinese, Thai, decent Japanese, Korean and Chiglish.....erm... English... I'm six years on and just now slowly developing the ear for it.. I also feel it's because it's so dissimilar to English there are no common words or sounds.

As for complex work activities any given specialty is a technological language of it's own between similarly educated persons and that makes it possible to communicate sometimes with little other necessary it's like when someone you know well finishes your thought..In her case it didn't take her long at all before she was as proficient as any Thai in doing her job which is in mid-level management now.. Like I said.......I hate her......

Edited January 25, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[nakachalet]

jingthing

from what i see so far....

if a farang with a western degree comes to thailand, i would guess he/she would need no more than 6 mos to learn to speak, read and write thai on a functional level....

most volunteers coming to thailand before attaining their college degrees need only 1 to 2 months to become proficient in thai to carry on a conversation....

then, there were a few farangs without college degree came to thailand and after only 3 months mobbing around town, began to tell a few thai jokes.... figure that out.... LOL

to be proficient in speaking, reading, writing and working cooperatively and successfully within a thai office environ.... you sure need to spend some 5 years or more as jingthing pointed out.... and

if you are smart enough to work yourself into a live-in situation with an educated thai family to assimilate the daily conversation and activity.... your learning curve would be much shorter, that i can assure you.

when my 3 yr old boy visited thailand for the very first time, he was miserable the first day. he did not understand anything about what the neighboring boys or girls were saying to him. the second day, he said a few thai words with funny tonation but the kids understood what he wanted. however at the end of the third day, he was running, shouting and screaming in funny thai.... LOL

and at the end of the summer, he asked if he could go to school here with his friends at the international.... NO WAY, SON!.... lol

nevertheless, in your case--ryukn.... i am sure you will succeed in thailand and learn the thai language proficiently and rapidly as well.

if not, come and visit us.... we'll teach you the finer point of learning and pronouncing the thai words, such as,

KAI (ใคร-who), KAI (ขาย-sell), KAI (ไข่-egg), KAI (ไก่-chicken)....LOL

-----------

Can't Chinese (whatever dialect) speakers learn tonal languages easier than westerners?

My understanding is that for the average westerner working to become fluent in Thai, at an advanced reading and writing level that would be consistent with a lot of high level employment, you are talking five to ten years. Its one thing giving directions to a taxi driver, its another thing doing complex work activities in Thai.

Edited January 25, 2010 by nakachalet

[rebbu]

Don't stop posting OP as not every one is as bitter as some of the posters. I feel that if you keep syudying and keep paying your debts you will indeed find a solution. It seems to be a sad indication of the state of affairs on our planet that when somebody puts their hand out for help it gets bitten. I am only sorry that I do not have any more advice to help you with your problem.

Agreed, I have every reason beyond your wildest dreams to be bitter but I'm not judging the OP as I too had a childhood that was not in my control and brought me to places I am still struggling to deal with and only just recently came to realize had a major detrimental effect on my entire life..

Am ok, wasn't talking about your life nor did I mention you or quote you or my wildest dreams! And sorry if you have had such a bad childhood and I hope you that you come to terms with such an obviously painful episode(s) in your life. I was trying to give someone a small bit of power who asked for some advice on a problem in their life and to let them know (OP) that not every one is looking down at them (not you, please don't missunderstand me).

[rebbu]

Going Back To Thailand After Living In Usa Illegally, some advice needed =)

This was the OP's subject line guys not Going back to Thailand please dont help me and riducule me and please compare my situation to that as a murderer

[RPETER65]

WarpSpeed,

I was in middle school in 2000 and do not recall hearing anything about amnesty then. Although at that time I really wasn't aware of my situation as I thought I was just a regular American student with a funny name. If there really was something offered to benefit me, then my parents must have not been paying attention to the news... and that sucks.

For about the past 10 years all I have been doing is working under the table to sustain a living and put myself through college. It is very unlikely that I will get caught unless I commit a crime. My family has been doing the same thing and it really saddens me to see them slave for so long. My dad has an MBA and worked in a bank back in Thailand... now he washes dishes. My mom was a professor and now she also washes dishes. If I continue to live in America like this, then nothing will change. However if I return to Thailand, find work, and perhaps eventually immigrate to Australia/Canada/New Zealand, I could begin to pay off my debts and support myself and my family.

That is my mindset right now, but I do appreciate your point of view. Also, I don't know why my post count is 2. I made this account a long time ago but never posted in the forums until now. Maybe the system is buggy.

I'm sorry to say but your mind set is based on misconceptions, the average dishwasher in the States still makes more with more benefits then many Thais here with Bachelors degrees and they are fluent in their native language speaking, reading and writing..

Believe me when I tell you it would be a big mistake on your part with no one to fall back on ending up to be more burden on your family..

As for those amnesty programs, I was under the impression you would have been older but still they were some time around 2001, 2002 as I was dating a Chinese lady shortly after that and she had just missed the deadline to file which was like 18 months or something..It was those amnesty programs that sparked all of the current debate about rewarding aliens so they were discontinued in their initial formats...It was also about that time that this new "immigrant lottery" was instituted as an alternative program though it does not cover current illegals to my knowledge only new immigrants..

My thinking you are trying to jump to the head of the line and you need to slow down and focus more on putting your head down and solving your current issues where you are as that has far more promise for you and your families future though it may be on a perceptively slower time frame in the long run it will be much quicker as you'll be working on it with far less uncertainties..

I will throw out one more confusing caveat and that is that you do have a quality American education based on what you are saying with some Thai and good English which should be considered "Native". Therefore there is a good chance for you to gain a relatively good position here that would pay you much better then the average Thai in the same position, but mostly I'm thinking teaching, but as you gain more Thai other doors may open..But again it's all a lottery of uncertainties but with little hope of ever getting back into the States to see your family and them not being able to leave either for any visits, tough choice... *edit* I take it back, I don't envy you your plight..

Overstays of any kind but especially the length of yours are an almost certain DQ on visa applications..Regardless of your situation and lack of control over it previously they have a pretty strict mostly zero tolerance policy on that issue..

Long overstays do not allways mean deportation, when I married my Thai wife in the U.S. she was on a five year overstay, working illegally, we were able to get passed the overstay part and she was given permanent residency. We did use an immigration lawyer, which I would suggest. If you are serious about staying in the U.S., which would by far be your best option, I would highly suggest looking at the option of marriage to a U.S. citizen. My experience with Thai people in america is that they are a very close community, get to know the Thai community in your area. L.A. has avery large Thai community, probably a good place to start. My point with this is, although not doing every completely legal, the Thai people who have suceeded in living in the U.S. have ways of getting things done. Don't give up, and don't worry about the legalities of everything, I know many Thai people who live in the U.S. legally who did not come here that way.

P.S. marriage dosn't have to be permanent, if you get what I mean. I am sure the Thai community in your area can help you.

[Jingthing]

P.S. marriage dosn't have to be permanent, if you get what I mean. I am sure the Thai community in your area can help you.

Marriage, huh? A good idea if it is legitimate. Otherwise, a really horrible idea. Someone like the OP would be a prime suspect and subject to intense investigation for falsification. The potential penalties for the citizen are severe.

18 U.S.C. § 1325©, provides a penalty of up to five years imprisonment and up to $250,000 fine for any "individual who knowingly enters into a marriage for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws."

The citizenship (and/or residency status) will also be denied/lost by the individual applying for the benefit.

The U.S. Citizen will not lose their citizenship (unless it can be proved that they committed fraud in obtaining their own), but can still suffer fines and criminal penalties as stated above

http://www.justanswer.com/questions/1bixq-...ified-to-obtain

[KenWingJitsu]

I too was in a kind of similar situation and waited for the DREAM/amnesty act to come forth.

No luck

I was born in Thailand so I recently went that route.

[PeaceBlondie]

My best friend is a clever gay Chinese. He married a black American, divorced her, and is now a US citizen.

[nakachalet]

some people would do anything to attain their goal.... including....

wonder how would that poor black lady feel.... toward another chinese male or female person....?

well, i surely won't be able to feel too good and too proud about this sort of thing in life.... perhaps, i am just too shallow....

My best friend is a clever gay Chinese. He married a black American, divorced her, and is now a US citizen.

[PeaceBlondie]

some people would do anything to attain their goal.... including....

wonder how would that poor black lady feel.... toward another chinese male or female person....?

well, i surely won't be able to feel too good and too proud about this sort of thing in life.... perhaps, i am just too shallow....

My best friend is a clever gay Chinese. He married a black American, divorced her, and is now a US citizen.

She was paid very well for the marriage; agreed up front. She wanted sex and fell in love with him, but no go. I used it in my novel.

[nakachalet]

ALAS...

a writer's story....

silly me.... LOL

some people would do anything to attain their goal.... including....

wonder how would that poor black lady feel.... toward another chinese male or female person....?

well, i surely won't be able to feel too good and too proud about this sort of thing in life.... perhaps, i am just too shallow....

My best friend is a clever gay Chinese. He married a black American, divorced her, and is now a US citizen.

She was paid very well for the marriage; agreed up front. She wanted sex and fell in love with him, but no go. I used it in my novel.

[Jingthing]

The OP is broke so who is he gonna pay? The INS requires such married people to live together and then asks lots of nosy questions. They weren't born yesterday. Sure lots of people scam them but lots get caught out as well.

[submaniac]

ryukn,

Are you in Los Angeles? Google "Immigration Westlaw" (I would put a link but last time it got deleted.) My office is in Fullerton. Come in for a visit, and let me see if there is anything we can do for you.

[IMA_FARANG]

lI've been off this forum for a few days...so I just noticed your post here. I'm replying as quickly as I can.

There is a possible solution which does not involve marrying an U.S. citizen for you to become a citizen.

I'm not saying this is going to work, but it is a possibility. I've known at least two "aliens" that were living in the U.S. (although I admit on tourist visas) who found their path to U.S. citizenship through joining the U.S. military.

It is posible for a non-citiizen to jpin the U.S. military. I knew one man from Grenada amd one from the Barbados who were in the U.S. Army and recieved their citizenship while in the military.

The problem is your non-legal status at the moment. However, you said originally were brought to the U.S. by your parents at age 6. At age 6 you did not choose to become an illigal alien by oberstaying, you were not legally qualified to choose by reason of your age. You could not be held responsible for that reason.

As I undertsand from what you say you are nearly 21 now. So you nead to make haste, and resolve the situation.

It seems you have ot very nearly have a Bachelor's degree? What is your degree in? The military definately needs bright younf people with an interest in technical fields. If you have a BS degree, and you were a citizen the military (Air Force or Navy in particular) would be more than happy to get a candidate like that.

I suggest you need to see your local recruiter (Air Force, Navy, Army in that order would be my choice). Be up front with your illegal alien status, and explain you want U.S. citizenship to become a normal tax-paying citizen of the country you effectively grew up in.

Now I don't know if it will work or not, but it is a possibility. Look into the possibility as quickly as you can. With your education background you should be able to do well on the Armed Forces Enlisted Aptitude Preference Test, which tries to determine your desires and aptitudes and ties to match them with the military needs. As I say, if you show any technical skills or a computer based aptitde, the military has a constant need for young people like that. If you show an aptitde for any of those technical talent they need. you're unlikely to end up as an infantry troop carrying a rifle. (Yes you still may be deployed, but it probably won't be as a foot slogger.)

I won't BS you and say it will be a great experience, especially during your basic/boot camp training, but you should be able to handle it. Take advantage of the free educational training the military offers, and work toward your Master's degrss. It's available, and entirely posssible if your willing to do the hard work. As the Thai bargirls say, "Up To You".

Your real problem is your non-citizenship, and thefore you are going to find it very hard to get a security clearance. Slog it out in the military for a year or two and then get your citizenship. With your education you could even qualify as an officer, but you will need citizenship for that to happen. It's also hard work. But you could make it to that end.

The military has a program that allows well performing members tp apply for citizebship, and the military will help them to that goal.

Good luck.

Edited January 27, 2010 by IMA_FARANG

[Jingthing]

The above option is not available to illegal immigrants. Also he is not a minor anymore so while the original choice was made for him, the law will see his decision to STAY as his.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/15/us/15immig.html?_r=1

The military does not allow illegal immigrants to enlist, and that policy would not change, officers said.

Edited January 27, 2010 by Jingthing

[submaniac]

The quickest and easiest method is really to have an employer sponsor you. You apply for a labor certification from the US Dept of Labor, and with that apply to USCIS. All you need to do is find someone who is willing to say that they will hire you for the prevailing wage...and this job can be as a personal assistant, maid, or whatever.

[Jingthing]

That sounds hopeful. I hope you can help this guy. I have also heard that in the US the employment market is not as bad now for young people as older people because they work cheaper.

[ryukn]

ryukn,

Are you in Los Angeles? Google "Immigration Westlaw" (I would put a link but last time it got deleted.) My office is in Fullerton. Come in for a visit, and let me see if there is anything we can do for you.

submaniac, i sent you a PM. if you could help me with any info, that would be greatly appreciated.

[submaniac]

ryukn,

Are you in Los Angeles? Google "Immigration Westlaw" (I would put a link but last time it got deleted.) My office is in Fullerton. Come in for a visit, and let me see if there is anything we can do for you.

submaniac, i sent you a PM. if you could help me with any info, that would be greatly appreciated.

I replied and sent you an email. Office is at the corner of Chapman and Commonwealth, suite 106. About 2 blocks from CSUF. Since you came over on a tourist visa a 245(i) waiver will not be applicable to you. Do you have relatives in the United States with legal status (citizenship or green card/permanent residency)? If yes, potentially you could do a i-130 petition for alien resident. However, the wait time for this is fairly long (they are processing applications submitted in 2000/2001 at the present time).

Your best option is to obtain status through a PERM labor certification. Your mother and father can as well. This involves having someone sponsor you through employment. It does not need to be through a big company either. If you have an uncle or friend, or family friend, they can 'employ' you so long as they have assets to cover your salary for 1 year at the prevailing wage. The steps are to:

1. Obtain a PERM labor certification through the U.S. Department of labor

2. File an i-140 petition for an alien worker and

3. File a 485 application to register permanent residence

This can be done for anyone. I do this regularly. The only proviso that I would add is it is not cheap. But then again you will obtain a green card and eventual U.S. citizenship; consider it an investment over the course of your life.