My Thai Wife Dies

[acerhodes]

Please does anybody know where I stand. If my dear Thai wife dies ( I hope she does not) our house and some land nearby we own is in her name. I cannot own land as a farang. What happens?

Help...................

[kalasin]

A good and relevant question for many.

I'm sorry I can't add advice, but I hope someone will bring along some advices.

[needforspeed]

Land and house going to the closes Thai family off her, start with Children, Parents, sisters/brothers, ect.

[chiangmaibruce]

OK you need to go to a good thai legal firm web site e.g. tilleke & gibbins ... samui for sale .... thailawonline etc etc) and look up under Wills, estate planning, etc. You can also use google, yahoo, etc with key words ... thailand + will for example. You will find solid details of the relevant thai law/s and advice there.

The first thing is to get her to prepare a valid thai will! NOW ... as this will affect what happens in terms of your interests

You mention house and land in particular... you can inherit this BUT you can't keep it longer than a year. By this time you must dispose of it to a thai (could be your child for example) otherwise (according to the letter of the law) it can be sold out from under you and you will receive the proceeds less a fee. But this is only if it is left to you in a Will. Without a Will you are worse off and must basically stand in line with your bowl with the wife's family for a percentage as specified under thai law (Civil and Commercial Code Section 1629)

[Crossy]

Agree with Bruce, act NOW to sort out a will for your lady, even Thai husbands come quite low in the pecking order if there is no will.

You are permitted to inherit up to 1 Rai but unless special dispensation is given (apparently does happen but I've no 1st hand experience) you must dispose of it within 1 year.

[Stricken]

A good and relevant question for many.

I'm sorry I can't add advice, but I hope someone will bring along some advices.

Ya I'm watching this one also, my guess, house can be sold by you, her family gets it, you must re-marry a Thai woman then re-register it with new Chanot deed.

[drum]

how would you stand if, the said land and house have out standing debt say mortgage or loan and has a none Thai national were guarantor

[kalasin]

Just thinking.... would it be possible to make a contract saying you rent land and house for the next 30 years? And - if the unhappy thing should happen - then you will be able to keep the house and land for the next 30 years? Hmm...

[bdenner]

Interesting in legal terms. I fully expect TW's daughter will inherent everything accept our car and I would still support the daughter at least to the end of her schooling. Knowing the family, as I do, the home would still basically be mine to use as I do now, BUT I don't think they would appreciate it if I was to move a Mia Noi in and I wouldn't!

[Loz]

Sounds like a good time to explore the Usafruct option. A right to use the land and house. If she makes a will leaving it to you it would make sense to be in a position where you could either:

A) transfer ownership to a Thai national with the same usafruct. so you could use the property for 99 years

sell the house to any tom d_ick or somchai and move on with your life an more than likely, your "new squeeze".

[happylarry]

My wife's will leaves our house to me if she unfortunately passes away. This leaves me one year to transfer or sell the ownership of the land to another Thai national, but I also have a usufruct on the land for life just in case of any hiccups. Its a lot of money so you cant be too careful.

HL

[Brigante7]

As far as I understand, if your Thai wife dies then the land she owns goes to you and you have 12 months to either sell it or transfer it in to the name of a Thai citizen, I may be wrong but I don't think so.

Brigante7.

[givenall]

This is a big problem for all farang who follow the legal ways of owning business, property, etc. It is my advice to all to set off legal agreement between you and your partner to make sure what would happen to the property owned over here.

For myself I have a simple agreement between us if something happens the other person will own all

[Kf6vci]

in other words, a farang spouse cannot inherit property - and be it to sell it asap. Do we now have a racial will legislation where no Thai may bequest freely to her or his spouse of a different nationality?!?

Thank you for bringing this up!

[happylarry]

Kf6vci

of course a Thai national can bequest freely, to anyone they like, their property.....but they cant over-rule the laws of the land which bars any non-thai from owning land. That is why you are given one year to dispose of the land.

givenall

so long as your simple agreement is a properly drawn up will and has been signed by witnesses then it will be ok...otherwise you will find it is worth zero when the time comes. As said before, the ferang comes last in the pecking order so you need to make sure you are water tight.

HL

[kikoman]

Interesting in legal terms. I fully expect TW's daughter will inherent everything accept our car and I would still support the daughter at least to the end of her schooling. Knowing the family, as I do, the home would still basically be mine to use as I do now, BUT I don't think they would appreciate it if I was to move a Mia Noi in and I wouldn't!

It was my understanding that a farang, could not own property in Thailand, half of the house and belongings, would belong to you, for the right of collecting some of the cost, I may be wrong but ,It would not be the 1st time!

I agree with bdenner, We built this house for my wife, She willed it to her daughters with the provision that ,I live here as long as I choose.

We built it large enough to accommodate her parents, whom I believe will be the caretakers as my daughters will leave the village after graduation from the University , to join their chosen professions.

The house is never to be sold but remain, to future generations of her family?

If the unforeseen happens, and she passes on before I do. I would leave my village as to many memories of my lovely wife remain here.

Cheers:

[love2u]

Here is a link to a law site that describes the Usufruct in more detail: Link

The other option is to be granted "right of habitation" to the land by the owner, this can be put into the last will of a thai national.

Good luck

[GingerLing]

OK you need to go to a good thai legal firm web site e.g. tilleke & gibbins ... samui for sale .... thailawonline etc etc) and look up under Wills, estate planning, etc. You can also use google, yahoo, etc with key words ... thailand + will for example. You will find solid details of the relevant thai law/s and advice there.

The first thing is to get her to prepare a valid thai will! NOW ... as this will affect what happens in terms of your interests

You mention house and land in particular... you can inherit this BUT you can't keep it longer than a year. By this time you must dispose of it to a thai (could be your child for example) otherwise (according to the letter of the law) it can be sold out from under you and you will receive the proceeds less a fee. But this is only if it is left to you in a Will. Without a Will you are worse off and must basically stand in line with your bowl with the wife's family for a percentage as specified under thai law (Civil and Commercial Code Section 1629)

Can a bank do your will in Thailand? HSBC do them here, I wonder if the offer the same service or an international service in their Bangkok branches.

[personchester]

This is a very serious subject, you should therefore not rely on general opinion, you need advice on this matter from Thai lawyers, there are plenty of them about, go to a good firm and listen to their advice and since they are knowledgeable on those subjects, they are bound to come up with a solution that will result in your favour.

[emsfeld]

As far as I understand, if your Thai wife dies then the land she owns goes to you and you have 12 months to either sell it or transfer it in to the name of a Thai citizen, I may be wrong but I don't think so.

Brigante7.

This is my understanding also. If you cannot sell or dont make any efforts to sell then the Land Department will force-sell it and you will be paid out less any taxes and fees and a 5% commission to the land department. That is, of course, if the land and property were acquired during your marriage.

Best way to make things fail-safe is to set up a will in which you are entitled to your share. You will still have to sell though unless you can arrange an usufruct with other (Thai) descendants (also to be specified within your wife's will).

[elcent]

you depend on goodwill of her/your relatives. Legally you have not much chance.

[tutsiwarrior]

As far as I understand, if your Thai wife dies then the land she owns goes to you and you have 12 months to either sell it or transfer it in to the name of a Thai citizen, I may be wrong but I don't think so.

Brigante7.

This is my understanding also. If you cannot sell or dont make any efforts to sell then the Land Department will force-sell it and you will be paid out less any taxes and fees and a 5% commission to the land department. That is, of course, if the land and property were acquired during your marriage.

Best way to make things fail-safe is to set up a will in which you are entitled to your share. You will still have to sell though unless you can arrange an usufruct with other (Thai) descendants (also to be specified within your wife's will).

I also share Brigante's understanding that upon the death of the thai spouse temporary ownership will pass to the foreign spouse for him/her to effect a transfer of ownership to a thai within one year...however not sure if this applies if there is a will and the foreign spouse is not mentioned...

it is also my understanding that the holder of an usufruct is entitled to control of the land for life regardless of death of the owner(i.e., wife), transfer of ownership, etc...good to have as a legal minimum to ensure tenure in the house/property if something unfortunate happens...

Edited January 25, 2010 by tutsiwarrior

[hawthorne]

My thanks to the OP and all of the eye opening information.

Great topic

[ballbreaker]

Unless your wife makes a will then the Thai Courts will decide who gets what based on law. As surviving spouse you are included in list of heir's but its still up to court who gets what when no will exists.

Let your wife know the only way to ensure her wishes are carried out is with a will otherwise the court will decide.

You can read more here: http://www.thailawonline.com/

[dave111223]

I believe you can keep the property forever (instead of just 12 months) if you apply for permission at a certain government department. And if your claim is in good faith will usually be approved. At least this is what i've read from the Housing/Property forum.

[happylarry]

I believe you can keep the property forever (instead of just 12 months) if you apply for permission at a certain government department. And if your claim is in good faith will usually be approved. At least this is what i've read from the Housing/Property forum.

Ferangs cannot own land in Thailand.

HL

[nam-thip]

Thai racist laws give you all the reasons you need to rent a house and not buy.

Within one week of a friend of mine's lady passing away her family came knocking on his door accompanied by the BIB giving him 48hrs to vacate 'their house'.

For 18 months he's been fighting the right to live there through the courts.

His lawyers case is based on the fact he can produced evidence that her contribution to the purchase of the house was zero baht and even though he signed away his rights at the land office his lawyer claims he has a case.

Not being married and having no last will and testament doesn’t help his case.

Could I personally sign away my rights at the land office as some foreigners do?

Only a fool would do that.

[happylarry]

Thai racist laws give you all the reasons you need to rent a house and not buy.

Within one week of a friend of mine's lady passing away her family came knocking on his door accompanied by the BIB giving him 48hrs to vacate 'their house'.

For 18 months he's been fighting the right to live there through the courts.

His lawyers case is based on the fact he can produced evidence that her contribution to the purchase of the house was zero baht and even though he signed away his rights at the land office his lawyer claims he has a case.

Not being married and having no last will and testament doesn't help his case.

Could I personally sign away my rights at the land office as some foreigners do?

Only a fool would do that.

Well if you have no trust in your wife then you would'nt sign, but why get married to her then.

As I said in my earlier post....if he had taken out a usufruct on the property then the relatives could not have done a thing as he would have the legal right to stay there as long as he wanted.

HL

[abdullah333]

My wife's will leaves our house to me if she unfortunately passes away. This leaves me one year to transfer or sell the ownership of the land to another Thai national, but I also have a usufruct on the land for life just in case of any hiccups. Its a lot of money so you cant be too careful.

HL

shouldnt you have been careful be4 spending a lot of money on something you cant own!

i mean, what good is a house upcountry if no wife to share it with,

[nam-thip]

Thai racist laws give you all the reasons you need to rent a house and not buy.

Within one week of a friend of mine's lady passing away her family came knocking on his door accompanied by the BIB giving him 48hrs to vacate 'their house'.

For 18 months he's been fighting the right to live there through the courts.

His lawyers case is based on the fact he can produced evidence that her contribution to the purchase of the house was zero baht and even though he signed away his rights at the land office his lawyer claims he has a case.

Not being married and having no last will and testament doesn't help his case.

Could I personally sign away my rights at the land office as some foreigners do?

Only a fool would do that.

Well if you have no trust in your wife then you would'nt sign, but why get married to her then.

As I said in my earlier post....if he had taken out a usufruct on the property then the relatives could not have done a thing as he would have the legal right to stay there as long as he wanted.

HL

The lack of trust does not lie with marrying a Thai lady or refusing to tell a lie at the land office by not signing the document saying its not my money and has nothing to do with your lady, the lack of trust for me lies in the Thai laws being brick walled against foreigners.

And let’s not forget that it was recently announced that 70% of Thai Lawyer’s don't exactly disagree with corruption and these are the people we turn to to protect our investment!!

You should be able to protect your investment but unfortunately in this country you are given little legal choices other than signing up to some illegal loopholes like setting up a Thai company for one.

I've lived here for 15 years and until the laws of Thailand change i refuse to go down the house purchase road.