Renting Your Condo - 5 Ideas

[PhiPhi]

As a 17 yr renter in Thailand this post is part rant and part info for condo owner's who are or want to rent their property additionally having a small interest in a property rental agency I must say there have been a few eye openers, I would be interested to hear feedback from condo owners who are renting out or wish to do so.

Now Thailand doesn't surprise me so often but I must admit that when starting up my wife's property agency I had a few surprises in store!

1. Near and dear to my heart was that the contact in the juristic management company would ask for 40% - 60% of the agents commission fee!

We actually had one staff member refuse a 1 year lease (apparently on behalf of the owner) at asking rent because we refused to pay her commission on a condo rental in Bangkok, yes This Is Thailand but to deny an owner of close to THB 500,000 rental income because of a backhander is just criminal. Lesson: Don't rely on condo management to get your condo out on the market, place it yourself with the 100's of independent property agents. To be fair if you can meet the juristic person manager they just want to get the owner property rented and have no interest in backhanders but are unaware what their staff are doing to potentially sabotage the rental.

2. Too high expectations from owners regarding rental income

You have a nice condo and want to rent it out great!, however you are asking top of the market price with some negotiation room, this strategy only works for a select few very desirable properties, for the most part your property will be overlooked as too expensive and not even get to a negotiation stage. A quick test is to calculate the baht/sqm price you are asking compared to a comparable or larger property in the same area, you'd be surprised at the results.

3. I've spent too much on this property already

Really? Unfortunately many of the properties on our books are rejected by potential customers because of old or tired furniture and fittings, you don't have to spend a fortune but if you want your condo to rent out quickly you should make an effort to make it look good. Case in point many owners initially spend good money to kit out their condos but are reluctant to maintain the original standard, the prospective client does not care if the 36" Sony T.V. cost you 65,000 baht five years ago they want a HD flat screen which would cost half as much today. Bathrooms and kitchens do need maintenance and a small investment in re-grouting tiles or re-laminating tops will pay for itself in the first months rent.

4. Differentiate Your Rental

Competition is hot! The condo rental market is softening so offer extra's to renters which are cheap for you and beneficial for the renter. Get a good deal on Internet ADSL and Cable TV and bundle these services included in the rental price. It would not be inappropriate to demand an additional deposit for these services. Small things can make a difference.

5. Be a good landlord

On the whole tenants (excuse the generalisation) are often perceived as a pain in the backside but by the time they are ready to move out they will have definite opinions about their rental experience and will be sure to let everybody know about it, there is not too much downside to a negative experience but a huge upside to a positive one whereas you may be able to replace an outgoing tenant without any loss of income! Fixing that broken light fitting promptly could pay dividends.

I know this post is a little one sided (geared to the renters perspective) but I would genuinely to see like feedback on what the concerns of condo owners are when renting out their property and what works for them.

If you want to contact me directly just Google "Bangkok home finders"

Phi Phi

[chivo]

thanks for that phiphi...

[thaijasmine]

Hold on ! I you have “ a small interest in a property rental agency “ naturally you want to steer people to agents !

So you are suggesting it is better to deal with “the 100's of independent property agents “ than risk ( and I emphasise RISK ) paying 40% - 60% of the agents commission fee – that doesn’t make sense because the agent will charge the owner 100% of the leasing fee. And this is often passed onto the tenant in the form of a higher rent or at least less concessions.

This is my advice from the tenants perspective

The average tenant in Bangkok only needs to pin point roughly where they want to live and then they are free walk around the various buildings on their own and introduce themselves to each of the juristic management company offices. Most of these staff members are usually very helpful indeed and are not looking for " backhanders " though many owners will gladly give them something in order to have leased the property without having any agents involved. The juristic management company offices will give you the name and phone numbers of owners so you can deal direct and that is much quicker and potentially cheaper for the owner and the tenant. In some cases they even have all the properties for lease on the notice board in the lobby of the building. But the MAIN advantage of doing all this yourself as a prospective tenant looking to rent somewhere is that no one knows which other properties you have seen or the ones you like. When you are negotiating direct with the owner, you are in a much much bargaining stronger position than compared to having an agent involved. This is because you can keep your cards very close to your chest this way.

The agent will sometimes come across as “ your friend “ but dont forget they are being paid by their client – the owner so they are not on your side. The less honest ones could even manipulate the situation so that you could even end up renting the property in which the agent received the highest leasing fee rather than you getting the property you really wanted.

In many countries such as UK for example you need an agent because there may not be anyone at the property to speak to you but in Bangkok there is always a site office so you can do everything yourself as a prospective tenant and end with a much better deal by dealing with condo owners direct.

p.s. Even if the juristic management company representative is involved in backhanders I am sure this can easily be stamped out because it is unenforceable anyway without prior written agreement.

[MJo]

Going direct with condo management works for buying as well. Usually there is huge difference in price that the agents advertise compared to real price the owner is asking for. Just save 500k on purchase this way.

In prakard you still can find owners among the agents, if you read the forums a while you can see who's agent and who's advertising their own property.

Anyways OP, good luck with your web site. Have to say you are quite clever on advertising so you probably do good with the biz as well

[jdinasia]

This unpaid advertisement brought to you from the people that think you have no common sense

Never use an agent in Thailand. Always go direct.

[typist]

some good ideas here from phi phi.

Yet, as an owner, I am doing ok without agents.

I bought a condo in Bangkok some years ago which has been rented out continuously since, at around 6-7% gross yield, which I consider good. I created a simple website for my property, which generates around 1-2 enquiries per week on it's own, with no further active advertising like google ads. Ads will of course dramatically boost the amount of leads.

I contacted all the big agencies and some smaller ones as well, none of the have ever done any useful work for me. I don't blame agents, they are not promoting one single property (mine), but many. I get far more leads from my own website than from agents, and on top of that many of the leads I got from agents were the "I'm just looking around"-type, and surprisingly enough, a lot of them did not even have the necessary budget.

I don't like to waste time so I filter and qualify the enquiries I get myself, and try to make sure that they have the necessary budget, and a keen interest in renting a property like mine, BEFORE I actually meet them and show them my place.

So here's my piece of advice regarding agents, If you're renting out - do whatever works for you. If agents are of any help to you, by all means, use them, but I wouldn't rely solely on agents if you want to have a continuous, dependable income stream (and if you dislike wasting your time on people who are not serious prospects).

Edited January 28, 2010 by typist

[trogers]

I do not restrict myself in seeking new tenants. I contact a couple of agents whom I can trust, as well as the building manager, and also look out myself.

I will give them all the profile of tenants I am looking for, and the rental amount inclusive of internet and cleaning services.

No point trying to save a month's agent commission and leave the space vacant for a few months.

In the end, whoever can bring in the tenant first will earn the commission.

[PhiPhi]

Hold on ! I you have " a small interest in a property rental agency " naturally you want to steer people to agents !

So you are suggesting it is better to deal with "the 100's of independent property agents " than risk ( and I emphasise RISK ) paying 40% - 60% of the agents commission fee – that doesn't make sense because the agent will charge the owner 100% of the leasing fee. And this is often passed onto the tenant in the form of a higher rent or at least less concessions.

This is my advice from the tenants perspective

The average tenant in Bangkok only needs to pin point roughly where they want to live and then they are free walk around the various buildings on their own and introduce themselves to each of the juristic management company offices. Most of these staff members are usually very helpful indeed and are not looking for " backhanders " though many owners will gladly give them something in order to have leased the property without having any agents involved. The juristic management company offices will give you the name and phone numbers of owners so you can deal direct and that is much quicker and potentially cheaper for the owner and the tenant. In some cases they even have all the properties for lease on the notice board in the lobby of the building. But the MAIN advantage of doing all this yourself as a prospective tenant looking to rent somewhere is that no one knows which other properties you have seen or the ones you like. When you are negotiating direct with the owner, you are in a much much bargaining stronger position than compared to having an agent involved. This is because you can keep your cards very close to your chest this way.

The agent will sometimes come across as " your friend " but dont forget they are being paid by their client – the owner so they are not on your side. The less honest ones could even manipulate the situation so that you could even end up renting the property in which the agent received the highest leasing fee rather than you getting the property you really wanted.

In many countries such as UK for example you need an agent because there may not be anyone at the property to speak to you but in Bangkok there is always a site office so you can do everything yourself as a prospective tenant and end with a much better deal by dealing with condo owners direct.

p.s. Even if the juristic management company representative is involved in backhanders I am sure this can easily be stamped out because it is unenforceable anyway without prior written agreement.

Thaijasmine,

I am suggesting that whatever happens the owner ends up paying 100% commission and the management co is IMHO egregiously demanding huge commissions from the agent disproportionate to their role in the eventual leasing of the property. This has a negative effect for a condo owner as they are denied the widest possible listing of their site, obviously some agents are prepared to pay this 'tea money' for the service of a security guard going up to open the room for a viewing but many are not or cannot afford to. The juristic management are in some case jealous gatekeepers so the agent is effectively shut out of listing the property, so the only way it could be stamped out is by positive action from the condo management committee. I don't want to give the impression that I'm anti-management company as a large proportion are very professional, helpful, open and welcoming offering every assistance to the agent to get their owners property rented without even a hint of a backhander.

You are correct that if the prospective tenant is prepared to do the leg work they can indeed find their own property but not everybody has the time or inclination to do that and this is where the agent comes in. First you have the opportunity to browse potential properties from the comfort of your own PC, then you can be chauffeured around to view your shortlisted properties, you have a single point of contact for each agent you use and somebody who can assist you in any negotiations.

There is honesty and unfortunately dishonesty in all walks of life and I cannot comment on what practices other agents may adopt however I suspect a vast majority are on the level, but it is wrong to say we are not on the customer's side, we can only make money if we are able to bring owner and tenant together in an agreement which is amenable to both parties, win/win. Additionally a good agent will endeavor to cultivate a positive working relationship with owners which in many cases will offer the tenant a stronger bargaining position because of the owner's desire to do business with a trusted agent.

There is no requirement for exclusive use of an agent so prospective tenants have the option to use several agencies when looking for a new property, this will offer a wider range of properties and give the prospective tenant an opportunity to evaluate the agent, it's a big market out there.

Typist & Trogers

Sound advice, I agree owners have to be proactive in getting their property rented.

All the best

Phi Phi

Edited January 29, 2010 by PhiPhi

[thaijasmine]

Hold on ! I you have " a small interest in a property rental agency " naturally you want to steer people to agents !

So you are suggesting it is better to deal with "the 100's of independent property agents " than risk ( and I emphasise RISK ) paying 40% - 60% of the agents commission fee – that doesn't make sense because the agent will charge the owner 100% of the leasing fee. And this is often passed onto the tenant in the form of a higher rent or at least less concessions.

This is my advice from the tenants perspective

The average tenant in Bangkok only needs to pin point roughly where they want to live and then they are free walk around the various buildings on their own and introduce themselves to each of the juristic management company offices. Most of these staff members are usually very helpful indeed and are not looking for " backhanders " though many owners will gladly give them something in order to have leased the property without having any agents involved. The juristic management company offices will give you the name and phone numbers of owners so you can deal direct and that is much quicker and potentially cheaper for the owner and the tenant. In some cases they even have all the properties for lease on the notice board in the lobby of the building. But the MAIN advantage of doing all this yourself as a prospective tenant looking to rent somewhere is that no one knows which other properties you have seen or the ones you like. When you are negotiating direct with the owner, you are in a much much bargaining stronger position than compared to having an agent involved. This is because you can keep your cards very close to your chest this way.

The agent will sometimes come across as " your friend " but dont forget they are being paid by their client – the owner so they are not on your side. The less honest ones could even manipulate the situation so that you could even end up renting the property in which the agent received the highest leasing fee rather than you getting the property you really wanted.

In many countries such as UK for example you need an agent because there may not be anyone at the property to speak to you but in Bangkok there is always a site office so you can do everything yourself as a prospective tenant and end with a much better deal by dealing with condo owners direct.

p.s. Even if the juristic management company representative is involved in backhanders I am sure this can easily be stamped out because it is unenforceable anyway without prior written agreement.

Thaijasmine,

I am suggesting that whatever happens the owner ends up paying 100% commission and the management co is IMHO egregiously demanding huge commissions from the agent disproportionate to their role in the eventual leasing of the property. This has a negative effect for a condo owner as they are denied the widest possible listing of their site, obviously some agents are prepared to pay this 'tea money' for the service of a security guard going up to open the room for a viewing but many are not or cannot afford to. The juristic management are in some case jealous gatekeepers so the agent is effectively shut out of listing the property, so the only way it could be stamped out is by positive action from the condo management committee. I don't want to give the impression that I'm anti-management company as a large proportion are very professional, helpful, open and welcoming offering every assistance to the agent to get their owners property rented without even a hint of a backhander.

You are correct that if the prospective tenant is prepared to do the leg work they can indeed find their own property but not everybody has the time or inclination to do that and this is where the agent comes in. First you have the opportunity to browse potential properties from the comfort of your own PC, then you can be chauffeured around to view your shortlisted properties, you have a single point of contact for each agent you use and somebody who can assist you in any negotiations.

There is honesty and unfortunately dishonesty in all walks of life and I cannot comment on what practices other agents may adopt however I suspect a vast majority are on the level, but it is wrong to say we are not on the customer's side, we can only make money if we are able to bring owner and tenant together in an agreement which is amenable to both parties, win/win. Additionally a good agent will endeavor to cultivate a positive working relationship with owners which in many cases will offer the tenant a stronger bargaining position because of the owner's desire to do business with a trusted agent.

There is no requirement for exclusive use of an agent so prospective tenants have the option to use several agencies when looking for a new property, this will offer a wider range of properties and give the prospective tenant an opportunity to evaluate the agent, it's a big market out there.

Typist & Trogers

Sound advice, I agree owners have to be proactive in getting their property rented.

All the best

Phi Phi

" I am suggesting that whatever happens the owner ends up paying 100% commission "

If i was a tenant and i contacted the on site Management company direct and they provided me with

the phone number of the condo owner I would start the discussions off by saying " i have come to you

without going to an agent so i would hope you will give me a lower rent to reflect the savings you are making

in avoiding payment of a leasing commission " So yes the owner pays the same BUT you end up with a more satisfied tenant

instead of the money going to a superflous 3rd Party

" and the management co is IMHO egregiously demanding huge commissions from the agent disproportionate to their role in the eventual leasing of the property."

But this doesnt affect the tenant or the landlord if the tenant does his / her own legwork ?

[trogers]

I have turned down prospective tenants who contacted me directly, as well as some who were brought in by the building manager and agents, when they do not meet the profile I have laid down. Prime consideration is the stability of their vocation and whether my condo unit will be kept clean and in good order.

[ExpatJ]

I have one condo in Jakarta (rental return 9.6 % after maintenance epayment- FWIW, in general rental returns in Jakarta are some of the highest in the world)- i rented to a Japanese family who paid 2 years in advance (as is the norm in Jakarta where expat tenants have to pay at least one year rent in advance (another bonus of owning over there). In the last 1.5 years i only had one request from the tenant for a light bulb!!! They are dream tenants in other words.

Im looking to buy a 1 or 2 br in Bangkok- thong lor area with a view of renting to Japanese tenant again, just waiting to see how the political situation plays out. Plan to get a japanese friend to write an add and post it in local Japanese language newspaper/magazines...

[trogers]

Before jumping with joy on this so called high rental yield, keep in mind that Indonesia has no freehold properties. All titles are leasehold.

I have one condo in Jakarta (rental return 9.6 % after maintenance epayment- FWIW, in general rental returns in Jakarta are some of the highest in the world)- i rented to a Japanese family who paid 2 years in advance (as is the norm in Jakarta where expat tenants have to pay at least one year rent in advance (another bonus of owning over there). In the last 1.5 years i only had one request from the tenant for a light bulb!!! They are dream tenants in other words.

Im looking to buy a 1 or 2 br in Bangkok- thong lor area with a view of renting to Japanese tenant again, just waiting to see how the political situation plays out. Plan to get a japanese friend to write an add and post it in local Japanese language newspaper/magazines...

[ExpatJ]

Hi trogers

Actually it is freehold and there are many freehold properties (not sure when you were last there?).

But, im not jumping for joy completely (perhaps just rocking on my heels:)..because the problem with Indonesia is that foreigners cant legally own a condo as an individual .

The only way to buy as a foreigner is:

1) Setting up a company and then buying through that- a big hassle

2) Having an Indonesian spouse and buying under their name

3) signing a legal contract with the company or entity that owns the land/building.

I went with 3)....now if there was a major dispute that went to court , i would almost certainly lose (though even in thailand where you can legally own a condo as foreigner , i dont know how much success a lone foreigner versus big thai company/owner would have if it went to court...). But since a) i am keeping the property for rental returns with no plan to sell and b ) i have some connections with the owning family of the development...i feel the returns of 9-10% justify the risk.

Edited January 31, 2010 by ExpatJ

[trogers]

My last stay in Jakarta was in 1997, the year before the riot.

You said you have no intention to sell it. If some unfortunate event happens, can you pass the title to your heir(s)?

Like I have said, there is no freehold condo title in Indonesia, only leasehold - the right to use the space for a defined period of time.

Hi trogers

Actually it is freehold and there are many freehold properties (not sure when you were last there?).

But, im not jumping for joy completely (perhaps just rocking on my heels:)..because the problem with Indonesia is that foreigners cant legally own a condo as an individual .

The only way to buy as a foreigner is:

1) Setting up a company and then buying through that- a big hassle

2) Having an Indonesian spouse and buying under their name

3) signing a legal contract with the company or entity that owns the land/building.

I went with 3)....now if there was a major dispute that went to court , i would almost certainly lose (though even in thailand where you can legally own a condo as foreigner , i dont know how much success a lone foreigner versus big thai company/owner would have if it went to court...). But since a) i am keeping the property for rental returns with no plan to sell and b ) i have some connections with the owning family of the development...i feel the returns of 9-10% justify the risk.

Edited January 31, 2010 by trogers

[wordchild]

i would echo some of the comment above,much better, as a prospective tennant, to identify the buildings you want to look at and then just walk in and ask. On my move to BKK in 2008 I gave myself upto 6 months living in a service apartment to find a long-term rental. I did not have a huge amount of free time and so used a couple of agents , but i also used a few wkends to walk around , get to know the area i was looking at and to view apartments. Nearly always when i walked in i found security/front desk staff more than happy to tell me about or, to give me a quick look at, what was available to rent or buy and also, with the help of a few baht, provide lots of valuable info eg average rental in the building , how long the apartment had been empty etc.I found the direct route much more productive and less time wasting than useing agents.One tip I learned,in a new condo developement , the person in charge of the transfers is worth getting to know,they really know what is going on with the owners. It took me just 2 months to find a great rental deal,no agent involved ,directly with an owner i was introduced to by one of the building staff and at a very big discount to the rent CBRE were trying to get for the same condo.

[ExpatJ]

You are correct that foreigners cannot own freehold, but Indonesian's can and my contract is with Indonesian entity that has de facto freehold (i.e. Hak Milik), my contract with the owner has given me all the rights to use the condo as a 'free hold' owner of the condo- including the right to pass on to my heirs. It also stipulates that the condo will be transfered once the government changes the laws to allow greater foreign ownership which is a matter of time...though who knows when.

As i said the returns are high- the week i signed the contract and paid for it upfront, the tenant transferred 2 years rental payments which amounted to 20% of the total condo purchase price; but caveat emptor and would be investors need to be able to walk away from their purchase if some worst case scenario happens.

[thaijasmine]

i would echo some of the comment above,much better, as a prospective tennant, to identify the buildings you want to look at and then just walk in and ask. On my move to BKK in 2008 I gave myself upto 6 months living in a service apartment to find a long-term rental. I did not have a huge amount of free time and so used a couple of agents , but i also used a few wkends to walk around , get to know the area i was looking at and to view apartments. Nearly always when i walked in i found security/front desk staff more than happy to tell me about or, to give me a quick look at, what was available to rent or buy and also, with the help of a few baht, provide lots of valuable info eg average rental in the building , how long the apartment had been empty etc.I found the direct route much more productive and less time wasting than useing agents.One tip I learned,in a new condo developement , the person in charge of the transfers is worth getting to know,they really know what is going on with the owners. It took me just 2 months to find a great rental deal,no agent involved ,directly with an owner i was introduced to by one of the building staff and at a very big discount to the rent CBRE were trying to get for the same condo.

good one wordchild

same for me

IMO Estate agency is a dying profession

[CWMcMurray]

When I wanted to look for a new place I would normally find a Tuk Tuk who worked in the general area that I wanted to live. I would then offer him a few hundred baht to run me around the area for a few hours looking for a place.

Just to be sure there were no problems, I would always tell him I want to look at many different places and that he should expect to be running me around for at least 3-4 hours or so.

This worked for me and helped me to find some really good deals...

[PhiPhi]

ThaiJasmine,

I think I have addressed the issues in sufficient detail in my last post but you still missed the point, I accept that there are people such as your good self who are more than capable of finding a property without any assistance and I say with all sincerity 'good for you', you are not on our demographic radar. I also accept that you perceive property agents in general as, to use your own words 'superfluous' obviously I disagree.

I would be interested to hear your ideas on how you think the landlords are performing in general and some insights to what you discovered when scouring the streets in search of a property. Yes there is considerable self interest in my original post but also a genuine desire to open up a discussion in the hope that shared information, anecdotes and ideas can sometimes be of benefit to all.

PhiPhi

[jrbkk64]

Estate Agents are only for dummies when it comes to your typical house/condo purchase in most parts of the world. Most if not all information needed to purchase properties, incl. recent selling prices, checking legal status, bankloans etc can be done by oneself with some legwork and research. Often the result is a lower price for either rent or purchase price.

Just in the last 12 months I have bought twice, both in different countries. One will make 9.8% nett yield starting next month (1st time on the market in Thailand) and the other one in Europe makes 6% nett yield. No agent involved, just common sense and preparation.

[thaijasmine]

ThaiJasmine,

I think I have addressed the issues in sufficient detail in my last post but you still missed the point, I accept that there are people such as your good self who are more than capable of finding a property without any assistance and I say with all sincerity 'good for you', you are not on our demographic radar. I also accept that you perceive property agents in general as, to use your own words 'superfluous' obviously I disagree.

I would be interested to hear your ideas on how you think the landlords are performing in general and some insights to what you discovered when scouring the streets in search of a property. Yes there is considerable self interest in my original post but also a genuine desire to open up a discussion in the hope that shared information, anecdotes and ideas can sometimes be of benefit to all.

PhiPhi

" but you still missed the point " NO YOU missed the point PhiPhi

Everyone and i mean everyone is capable of avoiding agents !

Estate agents add NOTHING to the equation .....I mean there is nothing scientific

about showing people around saying " this is the living room

this is the kitchen." . etc etc.....If people have eyes they can see what the place looks like !

After the " inspection " agents just get in the way .....they dont contribute a bl**dy thing and just delay and complicate

everything. On top of that I have dealt with many in other countries and their negotiating skills are generally quite abysmal !

Yes in the old days agents were necessary because there was no other way of finding

out about a property apart from newspapers but today the internet makes the agents role totally redundant .

This day and age everyone is looking to save money - which means why

pay a third party when you can avoid it ?

[stgrhe]

... and their negotiating skills are generally quite abysmal...

IMO one should never ever allow a real estate agent do the negotiations for you!

[thaijasmine]

... and their negotiating skills are generally quite abysmal...

IMO one should never ever allow a real estate agent do the negotiations for you!

exactly ! which is why i feel they are superfluous ..........what exactly do they do to justify

their enormous fees ?

[123ace]

Many of your views on estate agents are from a very simplistic and narrow perspective. It seems fashionable to bash agents and tar them all with the same brush, much as lawyers or car sales men are slated. If we all declared our professions on here we would have less room to hide perhaps.

Agents will always be necessary, to consdier it to be a dying trade because we can go on line is dim and disingenious. How would you get a valuation for a mortgage? how would you find a shop where there are no vacancies, or a warehosue? get comaparable evidence to reduce your office rent before the lease expires? market a property overseas in 10 countries at the same time? obtain market research on a specific sector? I could go on for hours, but you will still think its a dying trade....

[trogers]

As a landlord, I am doubtful of a happy landlord-tenant relationship with a prospective tenant who has so much time hunting for a place by himself to save on the agent's commission.

People I met makes 8 to 12 times the rent they have budgeted to pay, and they have not much time outside of their career to do hunting, and appoint a few agents to do the search. Quite a few have to even postpone appointments made to view places due to work commitments.

[jdinasia]

Many of your views on estate agents are from a very simplistic and narrow perspective. It seems fashionable to bash agents and tar them all with the same brush, much as lawyers or car sales men are slated. If we all declared our professions on here we would have less room to hide perhaps.

Agents will always be necessary, to consdier it to be a dying trade because we can go on line is dim and disingenious. How would you get a valuation for a mortgage? how would you find a shop where there are no vacancies, or a warehosue? get comaparable evidence to reduce your office rent before the lease expires? market a property overseas in 10 countries at the same time? obtain market research on a specific sector? I could go on for hours, but you will still think its a dying trade....

Do I need a mortgage to rent a condo?

Yes agents are a dying trade in condo and home rentals, particularly in Thailand.

[thaijasmine]

Many of your views on estate agents are from a very simplistic and narrow perspective. It seems fashionable to bash agents and tar them all with the same brush, much as lawyers or car sales men are slated. If we all declared our professions on here we would have less room to hide perhaps.

Agents will always be necessary, to consdier it to be a dying trade because we can go on line is dim and disingenious. How would you get a valuation for a mortgage? how would you find a shop where there are no vacancies, or a warehosue? get comaparable evidence to reduce your office rent before the lease expires? market a property overseas in 10 countries at the same time? obtain market research on a specific sector? I could go on for hours, but you will still think its a dying trade....

Do I need a mortgage to rent a condo?

Yes agents are a dying trade in condo and home rentals, particularly in Thailand.

123ace, before you post what in your opinion is " dim and disingenious " i suggest you get your facts correct

Agents most definately are not allowed to value property in Thailand. Only

licensed valuers ( licensed by the Thai Govt ) can do that and they are all Thai

people ( except for one farang who played a part in setting up

the licensing system after the Asian Economic Crisis ) The chances of another

farang getting a licence are virtually zero. These people must have obtained a degree

in a finance related subject and then undergo rigorous training.

In contrast to that I know one farang agent in Bangkok who was previously a " booze " salesman

in UK and had no real estate experience whatsoever.

Agents are spivs and any Tom Dick and Harry can set up shop.

Edited February 4, 2010 by thaijasmine

[PhiPhi]

So much to get my teeth into here and despite the hostility let's try and address thaijasmine's issues:

thaijasmine

NO YOU missed the point PhiPhi Everyone and i mean everyone is capable of avoiding agents !

So what? I am capable of avoiding hiring a maid but I'd rather spend my time earning money that doing the washing up, cooking and ironing, therefore I pay somebody to provide this service for me, I really don't see that point unless you are advocating the abolition of service based industries.

thaijasmine

Estate agents add NOTHING to the equation .....I mean there is nothing scientific about showing people around saying " this is the living room this is the kitchen." . etc etc.....If people have eyes they can see what the place looks like ! After the " inspection " agents just get in the way .....they dont contribute a bl**dy thing and just delay and complicate everything.

thaijasmine

These people must have obtained a degree in a finance related subject and then undergo rigorous training. In contrast to that I know one farang agent in Bangkok who was previously a " booze " salesman in UK and had no real estate experience whatsoever.

So first you say that estate agents add nothing and then you complain that they are not qualified to 'add nothing' so which is it?

thaijasmine

exactly ! which is why i feel they are superfluous ..........what exactly do they do to justify their enormous fees ?

Well since you asked here is a clue:

Capalisation Costs: Vehicle, Professional Photographic Equipment, IT infrastructure and platforms

Overheads: Rent, Electricity, Insurance, Accounting, Internet and Hosting Fees

Cost of Sales: Salaries, fuel, phone, telephone, sales and marketing

So with the above costs in place we then spend time:

Finding and promoting properties on behalf of the owners.

Assisting prospective tenants in selecting a short list of properties to view matching their requirements

Driving the client to view properties

Find additional properties if we do not have any matching the prospective tenant's requirements

Negotiating price, concessions and detail with the owner on the prospective tenant's behalf

Enormous fees? Standard fee for a 1 year lease is 8.33% hardly gouging is it?

If you're suggesting that we are investing all this time and money to build up a business to somehow hoodwink people please be more specific on how this works?

thaijasmine

Agents are spivs and any Tom Dick and Harry can set up shop.

Spiv - "–noun British Informal. a petty criminal, esp. a black marketeer, racetrack tout, or petty thief." source: dictionary.com

Well you've got me on that one! You can often find me on the corner of Sukhumvit / Asoke in my overcoat accosting passersby "psst! Guv, wanna buy a dodgy condo guvnor, nice 'n cheap like but keep it under your hat"

Seriously though, don't you think calling me, my wife and her colleagues criminals is taking things a bit too far? But since you have done I challenge you to back up your statement with some facts and examples of how we have acted disreputably or in a criminal manner and if you can't I think you owe us an apology.

Throughout this thread the tactic of cherry picking replies and bogus scenarios engineered to make a point hasn't really given us any useful information though I must admit it's mildly entertaining, I have explained honestly and openly what we do, how we do it and who we are aiming to provide a service to. You have proposed a scenario of a property rental market without agents but have declined to give any details of how this would work so why not give the forum the benefit of your insights and tell us how this scenario will come to pass, here's some real life scenarios to address before you write off property agents.

Owner in UK wants to rent out his condo or house in Bangkok, whose going to deal with the enquiries?

Overseas tenant is moving to Bangkok and want's information on available properties and characteristics of the local area

Owner wants to reach widest possible audience for his condo

Tenant wants to negotiate a lease with Thai speaking owner

Tenant is new to Bangkok and unfamiliar with the geography

Tenant is very busy and does not have time to trudge around the streets themselves

Oh, if only there was a service available that could deal with these scenarios..................

PhiPhi

[thaijasmine]

So much to get my teeth into here and despite the hostility let's try and address thaijasmine's issues:

Capalisation Costs: Vehicle, Professional Photographic Equipment, IT infrastructure and platforms

Overheads: Rent, Electricity, Insurance, Accounting, Internet and Hosting Fees

Cost of Sales: Salaries, fuel, phone, telephone, sales and marketing

So with the above costs in place we then spend time:

Finding and promoting properties on behalf of the owners.

Assisting prospective tenants in selecting a short list of properties to view matching their requirements

Driving the client to view properties

Find additional properties if we do not have any matching the prospective tenant's requirements

Negotiating price, concessions and detail with the owner on the prospective tenant's behalf

Enormous fees? Standard fee for a 1 year lease is 8.33% hardly gouging is it?

If you're suggesting that we are investing all this time and money to build up a business to somehow hoodwink people please be more specific on how this works?

thaijasmine

Agents are spivs and any Tom Dick and Harry can set up shop.

Spiv - "–noun British Informal. a petty criminal, esp. a black marketeer, racetrack tout, or petty thief." source: dictionary.com

Well you've got me on that one! You can often find me on the corner of Sukhumvit / Asoke in my overcoat accosting passersby "psst! Guv, wanna buy a dodgy condo guvnor, nice 'n cheap like but keep it under your hat"

Seriously though, don't you think calling me, my wife and her colleagues criminals is taking things a bit too far? But since you have done I challenge you to back up your statement with some facts and examples of how we have acted disreputably or in a criminal manner and if you can't I think you owe us an apology.

Throughout this thread the tactic of cherry picking replies and bogus scenarios engineered to make a point hasn't really given us any useful information though I must admit it's mildly entertaining, I have explained honestly and openly what we do, how we do it and who we are aiming to provide a service to. You have proposed a scenario of a property rental market without agents but have declined to give any details of how this would work so why not give the forum the benefit of your insights and tell us how this scenario will come to pass, here's some real life scenarios to address before you write off property agents.

Owner in UK wants to rent out his condo or house in Bangkok, whose going to deal with the enquiries?

Overseas tenant is moving to Bangkok and want's information on available properties and characteristics of the local area

Owner wants to reach widest possible audience for his condo

Tenant wants to negotiate a lease with Thai speaking owner

Tenant is new to Bangkok and unfamiliar with the geography

Tenant is very busy and does not have time to trudge around the streets themselves

Oh, if only there was a service available that could deal with these scenarios..................

PhiPhi

"I am capable of avoiding hiring a maid but I'd rather spend my time earning money that doing the washing up, cooking and ironing, therefore I pay somebody to provide this service for me, I really don't see that point unless you are advocating the abolition of service based industries."

Every prospective tenant can avoid using an agent

"So first you say that estate agents add nothing and then you complain that they are not qualified to 'add nothing' so which is it? "

Ok add nothing !

" Seriously though, don't you think calling me, my wife and her colleagues criminals is taking things a bit too far? But since you have done I challenge you to back up your statement with some facts and examples of how we have acted disreputably or in a criminal manner and if you can't I think you owe us an apology. "

I didn't say that did I ? This is exactly why this article is correct…………..you are doing now !!!!!

"unfortunately, the real estate agent industry is saddled with a poor reputation -- not unlike that of lawyers or even car salespeople -- because some agents don't know the difference between truth and lies. "

http://homebuying.about.com/od/realestateagents/a/063008-LiarAgts.htm

[PhiPhi]

That article has no relevance to this discussion, it is about the US real estate market pertaining to property sales, not property agents and condo rentals in Bangkok. BTW how did those negotiations with your landlord go back in September, you remember, that time when you were paying 25% more rent than the other tenants? On second thoughts don't answer that, I did make a genuine attempt to draw you into a more rational dialogue but I see this is not possible so I'll leave it at that as far as you're concerned.