If I Die In Thailand

[Chaimai]

I haven't got round to making a will yet and I am not intending to leave this mortal coil just yet. However, I have heard conflicting reports about what happens if I die.

As far as my Thai partner is concerned I know that she will be OK with what is already in her name. I have left PIN codes for my bank account with a trusted friend so she can get to my cash if I die. I see no need for a will in Tghailand.

However, I have some investments (not a huge amount) in England that I would like my daughters to have.

Somebody told me that they could simply claim the investments in the event of my death - someone else told me to make a will because (if I am living in Thailand and married to Thai) my wife can claim the UK investments.

I would welcome guidance from anyone who has had personal experience of these situations.

[PattayaParent]

No personal experience as I'm not dead yet, but my solicitor in UK advised me to make a Will in UK to cover my UK assets and a Will in Thailand to cover my Thai assets.

I have also been given the same advice by a UK IFA.

[Chaimai]

No personal experience as I'm not dead yet, but my solicitor in UK advised me to make a Will in UK to cover my UK assets and a Will in Thailand to cover my Thai assets.

I have also been given the same advice by a UK IFA.

That sounds good advice. But if I die without a will who gets my UK investments ?

[Crossy]

I would agree with PP, wills in each country covering the local assets.

Ours mention the existence of the other will and note that it covers only assets in the other country. Whether this was a smart move remains to be seen once I'm dead. Sadly, unless we have a medium as a TV member I will likely be unable to report

That sounds good advice. But if I die without a will who gets my UK investments ?

I would suggest that your wife would have first claim as you are legally married under UK law.

[chiangmaibruce]

This topic has been covered many, many times in Thaivisa threads. There is also a lot of material within the web sites of better Thai law firms ... use google etc to find this stuff.

You don't specify the nature of assets held within Thailand and outside of Thailand. Nor do you specify how many people might potentially make a claim against your estate. Consequently it's not possible to give a targetted answer. But the short answer is you should have a Will in Thailand and one in your country of origin.

Sorry, but you don't "know she will be ok with what's in ... her name" - your daughters could make a claim against it ... possibly others also. Likewise your Thai wife might make a claim against overseas investments. Unlikely? Yes sure. But things change and people change X years down the track and/or after you have gone.

I don't understand the reluctance to undertake the relatively simple task of nailing down this particular formality (?) You can use a Will kit to prepare a first draft by all means, but use a good lawyer to do the final version. A sloppy or invalid Will can be worse that no Will at all, in that it can sometimes generate more basis for confusion and disputes.

Your Thai wife should definitely also have a Will ... see other very recent threads on this topic for why this is the case.

[WeeGB]

I would agree with PP, wills in each country covering the local assets.

Ours mention the existence of the other will and note that it covers only assets in the other country. Whether this was a smart move remains to be seen once I'm dead. Sadly, unless we have a medium as a TV member I will likely be unable to report

That sounds good advice. But if I die without a will who gets my UK investments ?

I would suggest that your wife would have first claim as you are legally married under UK law.

TV member Naam died after taking a call from a mobile number. I know it's true because he posted it on here!

Perhaps a PM?

Back on topic, what Crossy suggests is exactly what I was advised to do, ensure each will is acknowledged in each country.

Are you sure about the Bank PIN codes being valid if you die? I'd expect that the British Embassy would have to be informed of your death, are you sure that the British authorities wouldn't freeze your bank assets? The UK government has done a lot of secretive, downright nasty things regarding us ex-pats, for example, freezing pension rates, massively increasing passport renewal costs...may be worth looking into, particularly as it's obvious from your posting that you intend to do right by your Thai lady wife.

Good luck with this...live long and prosper.

[PattayaParent]

If you die without a UK Will (intestate) then your assets go to probate court and each person that thinks they have an entitlement will be able to make a claim.

I would think your wife would have the strongest claim so best make a Will if you specifically want to exclude / limit her inheritence.

You can make the Will here in Thailand and send it to a friend or your children in UK.

[prakhonchai nick]

If you are a UK citizen, domiciled in the UK (and maybe residing in Thailand), then upon your death your assets will be distributed in accordance with UK Law. If you make a will - no problem - although separate wills for UK and Thai (if any) assets is advisable. If you die intestate then your wife (Thai or otherwise) takes precedence over everyone, although other family members may be able to lodge a claim if they feel they should also inherit. There are however limits as to how much the wife may receive, excess amounts going to other family members.

If you have UK family -i.e children - and you wish them to inherit part of your estate then a will is a must.. Otherwise they could get nothing.

If you are married in Thailand then upon your death your wife can claim a £2000 bereavement payment from the UK Dept of Work and Pensions. Similarly if you and /or your Thai wife) have children either pre-school age or still at school, your widow can claim Widowed Parents Allowances of up to £97 a week whilst a child is still at school.

Mr Chaimai -you would be well advised to make a will -particularly one dealing with your UK assets, so that your children as well as your Thai wife will get what you want to give them.

You. Mr Chaimai and all other UK citizens with Thai wives would be well advised not only to make a will, BUT to make sure that your wives know what to do after your death, to obtain your assets and whatever the UK government will give them and their children.

Most wives unfortunately lose out because they have no knowledge of their entitlement and even if they do, they have an insufficient grasp of English to enable them to make a claim.

It is possible to deposit full details of your assets etc with a holding company, which will be accessed and dealt with on behalf of your wife once your death is notified.

PM me for details if you are interested

[Chaimai]

Thank you for these helpful replies.

I fully accept the preference to have a will(s) and my understanding was fairly clear until I saw a Thai legal website that said:-

If you die without a will or without a valid will, or if your will only disposes of part of your estate, the Civil and Commercial Code rules that your property will be distributed among your heirs.

This seemed to contradict what I had hitherto believed i.e. that as a UK citizen my assets would be dealt with under UK Rules of Intestacy.

I also realise that (after PM-ing with PrakhonchaiNick) that it also important that beneficiaries, especially a Thai wife, knows WHAT to do in the event of my demise.

[prakhonchai nick]

Thank you for these helpful replies.

I fully accept the preference to have a will(s) and my understanding was fairly clear until I saw a Thai legal website that said:-

If you die without a will or without a valid will, or if your will only disposes of part of your estate, the Civil and Commercial Code rules that your property will be distributed among your heirs.

This seemed to contradict what I had hitherto believed i.e. that as a UK citizen my assets would be dealt with under UK Rules of Intestacy.

I also realise that (after PM-ing with PrakhonchaiNick) that it also important that beneficiaries, especially a Thai wife, knows WHAT to do in the event of my demise.

I would imagine that the Thai legal website you refer to is one based in Chiang Mai. What they say certainly applies to Thai Citizens, but UK nationals living in Thailand who are still domiciled in the UK (as I would imagine99%+ are) would have their estates settled under UK law. I find it strange that this particular law firm would show the Thai rules in the English language. I have asked them for confirmation but to date no reply.

[slapout]

Since you have made provisions for your wife here in Thailand, property is probably in her name etc. Your concern for your children receiving the assets in the UK could probably be solved by having them registered as co owner with you, with rights of survivor ship. Doubt if any legal firm would have to be involved. I have done this in another country, but as I am writting this it has not been implemented as yet, but all parties agree that probate/lawyers will not be wanted/needed.

[prakhonchai nick]

Since you have made provisions for your wife here in Thailand, property is probably in her name etc. Your concern for your children receiving the assets in the UK could probably be solved by having them registered as co owner with you, with rights of survivor ship. Doubt if any legal firm would have to be involved. I have done this in another country, but as I am writing this it has not been implemented as yet, but all parties agree that probate/lawyers will not be wanted/needed.

If you own property in the UK then your child/children can be shown as co-owners. Similarly bank accounts can be in joint names. There can however be problems, so a simple will, held in the background in case of need is recommended.it can be drawn up by yourself, the main thing being it must be witnessed.

[siggie2]

No personal experience as I'm not dead yet, but my solicitor in UK advised me to make a Will in UK to cover my UK assets and a Will in Thailand to cover my Thai assets.

I have also been given the same advice by a UK IFA.

I ahve the same,even though i am not married,but long term gf of 5 years,who lives with me.Also i did a life term partnership agreement that if we split she gets half the value of the house at the purchase price,3 years ago,and nothing else.If she dies first i get the house,which i can retain for 1 year then i need to sell

[Chaimai]

No personal experience as I'm not dead yet, but my solicitor in UK advised me to make a Will in UK to cover my UK assets and a Will in Thailand to cover my Thai assets.

I have also been given the same advice by a UK IFA.

I ahve the same,even though i am not married,but long term gf of 5 years,who lives with me.Also i did a life term partnership agreement that if we split she gets half the value of the house at the purchase price,3 years ago,and nothing else.If she dies first i get the house,which i can retain for 1 year then i need to sell

Sounds a good idea. Presumably, if you die first your GF gets the house - meaning that you are worth more dead than alive . I guess most of are actually in that situation, one way or another.

[Ijustwannateach]

If you die in Thailand.....

....you die in the real world, too...

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[JohnC]

I have recently written a small information booklet on this very subject and all the info given above is very relevant, a UK will for your assets in Uk plus a Thai will for your Thai assets is a must do! Lots of reasons already explained above, plus in Thailand when you die your bank account will be frozen, what if you own a car/motorbike in your name ? the list is endless, are you legally married? does your wife know how to contact the authorities to claim a bereavement allowance? widows pension etc, do you have a company pension that she might be entitled to? Do you have a PC that is password protected? does anyone else have the password? As you can see it is far more complex than first thought, what are your wishes for disposal of your mortal remains? who pays? who knows what you want?? and so on and so on.

[Chaimai]

I have recently written a small information booklet on this very subject and all the info given above is very relevant, a UK will for your assets in Uk plus a Thai will for your Thai assets is a must do! Lots of reasons already explained above, plus in Thailand when you die your bank account will be frozen, what if you own a car/motorbike in your name ? the list is endless, are you legally married? does your wife know how to contact the authorities to claim a bereavement allowance? widows pension etc, do you have a company pension that she might be entitled to? Do you have a PC that is password protected? does anyone else have the password? As you can see it is far more complex than first thought, what are your wishes for disposal of your mortal remains? who pays? who knows what you want?? and so on and so on.

That information booklet sounds useful. Is a copy available ?

[JohnC]

That information booklet sounds useful. Is a copy available ?

Unfortunately only in Pattaya as I published it at my own expense, it is on sale (40baht) at Pattaya Expats Club, Thais for Life Bookshop Soi Yensabi and Oscars in Boyztown,all proceeds to Thais for Life a local charity that supports the Jing Jai Orphanage.

[aslimversgwm]

No personal experience as I'm not dead yet, but my solicitor in UK advised me to make a Will in UK to cover my UK assets and a Will in Thailand to cover my Thai assets.

I have also been given the same advice by a UK IFA.

Quite correct - you need a will drawn up in by a solicitor in England that specifically excludes your Thai assets and a Thai will drawn up by a lawyer in Thailand specifically including your Thai assets only.

Not long done that on advice from legal people here and in UK.

[Artabus]

My father passed away whilst in Thailand. Here are the outline details of my experience. PM me if you would like to know more.

1) As others have said, if you wish to do things properly, you MUST have a will in each country, that relates to that country, with a list of assets in that country. This should be filed somewhere obvious eg with a lawyer.

2) The likelihood is that you are NOT domiciled in Thailand. You MAY be resident there. Do you know?

3) This means that ALL assets outside Thailand must be dealt with according to the law of the country in which you are domiciled. So, assuming that for you this is the UK, make sure your will accords with the laws of the UK.

4) The Thais will say that if you die in Thailand, your assets in Thailand must be dealt with under Thai law. They will NOT rule on the UK.

5) The UK route goes through the probate courts. It is pretty straightforward.

6) The law in Thailand depends if you are married, or not. Of course!

7) Do NOT die intestate. You will bequeath your daughters a nightmare, trust me.

8) Empor caveat...

[gregchambers]

One thing to bear in mind, if UK assets are inherited by someone who is not resident in the UK I believe that the inheritance allowance is not applied and the assets are taxed at the full rate (40 percent last time I looked) so it may be a good idea to transfer them to one of the offshore centres if you don't want to risk moving them to Thailand

[nithisa78]

If you trust your wife, don't worry about it. However, better to draw up a short and simple will. Get three witnesses. That will hold up before any magistrate or Judge.

[ding]

I have a will AND a pre nuptial agreement in bot Thai and English. The benefits are staged increases - the longer we're together the higher percentage she gets.

That eliminates the balcony diving 2 years in!

(which I hereby swear and attest I will never do)

[PattayaParent]

One thing to bear in mind, if UK assets are inherited by someone who is not resident in the UK I believe that the inheritance allowance is not applied and the assets are taxed at the full rate (40 percent last time I looked) so it may be a good idea to transfer them to one of the offshore centres if you don't want to risk moving them to Thailand

I have been advised that the nil rate band (inheritence allowance) IS applied but only in terms of YOUR nil rate allowance and the allowance for your foreign wife is a reduced amount (currently 30k GBP I think, compared to around 320k GBP if your spouse is a UK domiciled national.

Also the IHT is applicable to ALL your worldly goods, so putting them offshore does not make any difference to liability.

Regarding domicile, it is a good bet that most of you here are NON-domiciled in UK. The requirement being to have left UK for more than 3 years to take up permanent residence elsewhere. It's a good thing to have this stated in your UK will along the lines of "My domicile of choice is Thailand"

Note: there are other requirements besides the 3 years and they vary with each persons circumstances so you should investigate your own particular situation more carefully and not rely solely on me or anyone else that posts on the internet. IHT is a very complicated issue.

[Chaimai]

Regarding domicile, it is a good bet that most of you here are NON-domiciled in UK. The requirement being to have left UK for more than 3 years to take up permanent residence elsewhere. It's a good thing to have this stated in your UK will along the lines of "My domicile of choice is Thailand"

Note: there are other requirements besides the 3 years and they vary with each persons circumstances so you should investigate your own particular situation more carefully and not rely solely on me or anyone else that posts on the internet. IHT is a very complicated issue.

I can't agree with this.

If you are a Uk citizen, holding a British passport and residing in Thailand under Visa rules - then surely your legal estate in the UK is covered by UK Probate rules. I accept that you can be non-domiciled for tax purposes but jurisdiction over UK assets will ALWAYS rest with the UK authorities.

[Chaimai]

My father passed away whilst in Thailand. Here are the outline details of my experience. PM me if you would like to know more.

1) As others have said, if you wish to do things properly, you MUST have a will in each country, that relates to that country, with a list of assets in that country. This should be filed somewhere obvious eg with a lawyer.

2) The likelihood is that you are NOT domiciled in Thailand. You MAY be resident there. Do you know?

3) This means that ALL assets outside Thailand must be dealt with according to the law of the country in which you are domiciled. So, assuming that for you this is the UK, make sure your will accords with the laws of the UK.

4) The Thais will say that if you die in Thailand, your assets in Thailand must be dealt with under Thai law. They will NOT rule on the UK.

5) The UK route goes through the probate courts. It is pretty straightforward.

6) The law in Thailand depends if you are married, or not. Of course!

7) Do NOT die intestate. You will bequeath your daughters a nightmare, trust me.

8) Empor caveat...

Thank you - good to hear from actual experiences. Point 7 is valid - there is no need to die intestate (I have almost completed my own wills for UK and Thailand)

[PattayaParent]

Regarding domicile, it is a good bet that most of you here are NON-domiciled in UK. The requirement being to have left UK for more than 3 years to take up permanent residence elsewhere. It's a good thing to have this stated in your UK will along the lines of "My domicile of choice is Thailand"

Note: there are other requirements besides the 3 years and they vary with each persons circumstances so you should investigate your own particular situation more carefully and not rely solely on me or anyone else that posts on the internet. IHT is a very complicated issue.

I can't agree with this.

If you are a Uk citizen, holding a British passport and residing in Thailand under Visa rules - then surely your legal estate in the UK is covered by UK Probate rules. I accept that you can be non-domiciled for tax purposes but jurisdiction over UK assets will ALWAYS rest with the UK authorities.

You are quite correct and I haven't said otherwise.

All I am stating is the domicile issue for IHT tax purposes.

[Chaimai]

Regarding domicile, it is a good bet that most of you here are NON-domiciled in UK. The requirement being to have left UK for more than 3 years to take up permanent residence elsewhere. It's a good thing to have this stated in your UK will along the lines of "My domicile of choice is Thailand"

Note: there are other requirements besides the 3 years and they vary with each persons circumstances so you should investigate your own particular situation more carefully and not rely solely on me or anyone else that posts on the internet. IHT is a very complicated issue.

I can't agree with this.

If you are a Uk citizen, holding a British passport and residing in Thailand under Visa rules - then surely your legal estate in the UK is covered by UK Probate rules. I accept that you can be non-domiciled for tax purposes but jurisdiction over UK assets will ALWAYS rest with the UK authorities.

You are quite correct and I haven't said otherwise.

All I am stating is the domicile issue for IHT tax purposes.

Sorry PP - I thought we (I) might have been at crossed-purposes.

[thailoneus]

There is a heap of information re. the UK. Is there anyone who has any knowledge for the situation with Australia?

[thaiozy]

Gooday all

Some good info here but i am an aussie citizen.

Not having looked into this matter until now, & only having my superanuation pending in years to come from australia, i was curious as to how i would be able to protect any monies eg; super pay out will be 50 - 50 wife / son that will be in my sons name if my wife is still his guardian due to him being under age.Don`t get me wrong my wife is very good but just want to make sure it will go towards his education mainly & to have some money when older. I worry a little bit if the family finds out from her & they start into various adventures

This also goes for other assets like house even though wife owns (would not like to find out she was enticed by family to morgage house & unable to pay resulting in nothing for my son) & this may go for any other thai asset yet to be purchased.

I will see lawyers in aussie & sebastian in Korat

The book sounds good ? wander if you could send some up to Sebastian for the Issaan folk

All the best for the up coming Songkrun