Motorbike Riders Urged To Use Gasohol 91

[george]

Motorbike riders urged to use Gasohol 91

BANGKOK: -– The Ministry of Energy and the Thai Motorcycle Enterprise Association are encouraging motorcycle riders to use Gasohol 91 to reduce costs and promote ethanol production in the country.

Energy Minister MD Wannarat Channukul urged motorcycle riders to shift to Gasohol 91 after presiding over the Gasohol 91 campaigning activity at Indoor Stadium Hua Mak on Saturday. He elaborated that the use of Gasohol 91 could promote ethanol production, help farmers, reduce energy imports, and help riders save energy costs.

The Minister confirmed that most vehicles now could use Gasohol 91 already. He also announced that continuous campaigns on this issue would be made both in the capital city of Bangkok and other provinces following the policy of his ministry.

Bangkok now has the highest number of motorcycles at 2,390,366 compared to other provinces with 695 petrol stations. According to the 15 years alternative energy development plan, the Ministry aims to increase the use of alternative energy to 15.4% in 2011 and to 20.3% in 2022. The use of ethanol is targeted to increase from three million liters per day in 2011 to nine million liters per day in 2022.

Meanwhile, Thai Motorcycle Enterprise Association MD Annop Pornprapa stated that four motorcycle companies, including Yamaha, Honda, Suzuki, and Kawasaki had collaborated with the Energy Ministry to campaign for the use of Gasohol 91 among motorcycle riders.

-- NNT 2010-01-31

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[animatic]

To bad the stuff makes my bike run like crap.

You can't force people to use something their machine is not prepared for.

[JezQ]

To bad the stuff makes my bike run like crap.

You can't force people to use something their machine is not prepared for.

I tried to use the stuff too when I got my new Fino, which is allegedly able to run on it. Unfortunately it was difficult to start every morning and until the engine was really hot, ran like a three legged dog. I'd be more than happy to use it in the future without these problems. On benzene it starts first time every time and runs like a dream (no pun intended lol)

[alex_aka_P]

He also announced that continuous campaigns on this issue would be made both in the capital city of Bangkok and other provinces following the policy of his ministry.

Good thing doesn't need to be promoted...

Anyway....why they targeting only motorcycle riders? Noone else in Bkk to "help farmers, reduce energy imports, and help riders save energy costs"? How about the Minister himself - does he fill his Benzo with E'91 ?? Just curious.

To bad the stuff makes my bike run like crap. You can't force people to use something their machine is not prepared for.

+1

My Harley won't consume that cheap ethanole sh.it. Im not gonna save a couple of bahts per time - and repair the engine later on (which will cost me a couple of hundreds thousands at once).

[Paul123456]

From what people have written, I'd say perhaps instead of just promoting people use ...., the ministry should actually do some work, and cooperate with manufacturers to produce affordable engines that prefer the stuff and getting that out to consumers.

Too bad they are probably too busy filling their pockets to do something actually useful like that.

[jdinasia]

Just filled up on V-Power95 tonight

[PeaceBlondie]

Cannot tell the difference, and I have high compression carbureted engine.

[ovenman]

I've been running Gasohol 95 in my eight year old Honda Dream for a number of years now. Seems to be fine. I've never tried the Gasohol 91 though...

[dumball]

Many years ago I raced my motor-cycles on straight ethanol , had to raise the compression ratio to at least 9 1/2 :1 , increase jet sizes throughout the whole operating range . Engine gained oodles of all around power output and ran much cooler thus reducing engine wear , problem was the cost , burned a lot more ethanol than gasoline . It is not cheaper and if the carburation is not modified to suit , as has been noted here , the engine will not run as efficiently and more rapid wear of engine compoents will take place . Keeping the air cleaner foam pad clean is more cost efficient .

[tingtongfarang]

My bike also runs crap on it and is hard to start first thing in the morning, I dont notice it so much with the car but there is a flat spot around 2000 rpm, Also i notice with both the bike and the car they consume more using gasohol,

[screamingeagle]

He also announced that continuous campaigns on this issue would be made both in the capital city of Bangkok and other provinces following the policy of his ministry.

Good thing doesn't need to be promoted...

Anyway....why they targeting only motorcycle riders? Noone else in Bkk to "help farmers, reduce energy imports, and help riders save energy costs"? How about the Minister himself - does he fill his Benzo with E'91 ?? Just curious.

To bad the stuff makes my bike run like crap. You can't force people to use something their machine is not prepared for.

+1

My Harley won't consume that cheap ethanole sh.it. Im not gonna save a couple of bahts per time - and repair the engine later on (which will cost me a couple of hundreds thousands at once).

My Harley runs like s**t too on this stuff. never use it!

[Hog Head]

It will be a good way to get rid of those stinking polluting 2 strokes.

Too bad Tuk-Tuks do not run on petrol

[Phil Conners]

Always using Gasohol 91 in my Airblade. Makes absolutely no difference to benzene, but I often get "funny" comments from ignorant attendants who either think I'm a cheapskate for not buying premium 95 octane benzene or think that premium 95 octane benzene is "dee qua".

Maybe they should start by educating the attendants as well.

Edited February 1, 2010 by Phil Conners

[alex_aka_P]

think that premium 95 octane benzene is "dee qua".

Frankly speaking - it IS.

Just on Airblade you'll see no difference. Try to get something better to notice the diff.

[Lancelot]

I've been running Gasohol 95 in my eight year old Honda Dream for a number of years now. Seems to be fine. I've never tried the Gasohol 91 though...

Several Thais have told me that their bikes run great on Gasohol 95; however, they say they have problems when using Gasohol 91.

I'm a cheap charlie and have driven almost 14,000 kms using mainly Gasohol 91 -or E20 when I can find it- with no problems. However my little beast is a 2009 Honda CZi and specifically states it can run on E20, G91, G95 or regular 91 gasoline

Edited February 1, 2010 by Lancelot

[toybits]

What I find amusing with the original post is that no mention was made regarding reduction in the use of fuel. Whatever the alternative fuel may be, there will always be a shortage of it in the future. It does not matter whether it be gasohol 91 or E20. There will not be enough of it in the future.

[01322521959]

To bad the stuff makes my bike run like crap.

You can't force people to use something their machine is not prepared for.

I agree. My two stroke Honda hates the stuff

[Phil Conners]

think that premium 95 octane benzene is "dee qua".

Frankly speaking - it IS.

Just on Airblade you'll see no difference. Try to get something better to notice the diff.

Something better? It's usually the old crap (such as Harleys designed in the sixties and old 2-strokes) that can't handle Gasohol.

[ScubaBuddha]

This gasahol thing seems to be a complete scam. They created it and tell us to use it because it saves energy and is cheaper. But if it's saving 5% of the oil used in processing, and it is 5 or 10% cheaper, but is 10% less efficient (in my experience my gas mileage suffers noticeably, at least 10%) then how is that doing anything but creating a net increase in oil use and actually costing the same or more at the pump? All the while diverting corn from feeding hungry people so that Americans can keep driving their Hummers!!!!

And now we can't even get regular 95 anymore!

[colinscarr]

And the alcohol evaporates in this warm climate if you don't use it the same day as you fill up.

We need an energy revolution if we are to maintain our present lifestyles for more than a few years. Sorry, I don't know what that might be, or I'd be just amazingly rich by now.

[Phil Conners]

This gasahol thing seems to be a complete scam. They created it and tell us to use it because it saves energy and is cheaper. But if it's saving 5% of the oil used in processing, and it is 5 or 10% cheaper, but is 10% less efficient (in my experience my gas mileage suffers noticeably, at least 10%) then how is that doing anything but creating a net increase in oil use and actually costing the same or more at the pump? All the while diverting corn from feeding hungry people so that Americans can keep driving their Hummers!!!!

And now we can't even get regular 95 anymore!

What do you need 95 for? Does your engine knock? Is your car either a Ferrari or more than 30 years old? You do know there is no energy advantage to higher octane, right?

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi.

Neither of my two bikes can run on gasohol - yup, both are two-strokes. One of them has a modified engine, that one even wants to see the cool blue (it is really blue these days!) stuff - petrol 95. The other (stock engine) runs fine on 91 but it, too, requires petrol.

Gasohol kills two-strokes - the ethanol dissolves the lubricant (2T, "autolube") and very quickly leads to engine damage - as i experienced in my own bike after accidentally filling with 95 gasohol. Immediate effect - loss of power, refused to rev high, appeared "stuffed" as if the air filter was clogged. After about 200 kilometers engine noise developed. After the next fuel stop power was back to normal which is when i realized i had the wrong fuel, however - con rod bearing and both main bearings were toast already.

To run a two-stroke on gasohol one needs special 2T or "autolube" oil - and i have not seen it yet in Thailand.

And two-strokes don't have to be "smoking and uneconomic" - mine hardly smokes if i don't want it to smoke and it uses only about twice as much fuel as a Honda Wave 100 - but it weighs a lot more than a Wave and goes twice as fast

Best regards.....

Thanh

[RusticCharm]

What do you need 95 for? Does your engine knock? Is your car either a Ferrari or more than 30 years old? You do know there is no energy advantage to higher octane, right?

I prefer 95 Benzine because my bike runs better with it. It feels like it runs 'lean' with 95/91 Gasohol. The whole Gasohol thing in Thailand is just a PTT scam to line certain pockets.

Fortunately, there's a Susco and Caltex where I live.

And my bike is a Ducati. Does that count?

[SeanMoran]

What do you need 95 for? Does your engine knock? Is your car either a Ferrari or more than 30 years old? You do know there is no energy advantage to higher octane, right?

I prefer 95 Benzine because my bike runs better with it. It feels like it runs 'lean' with 95/91 Gasohol. The whole Gasohol thing in Thailand is just a PTT scam to line certain pockets.

Fortunately, there's a Susco and Caltex where I live.

And my bike is a Ducati. Does that count?

When I used to be able to get it back in 2549 (2006) I always ran even my garden-variety Honda Wave on 95 benzine, for superstitious reasons alone. With such an high risk undertaking (excuse pun) as riding around on a little bike in Thailand, I figured that it might have been some sort of caring gesture to the Honda and maybe I could count on her caring for me in tough times. Evidentially, that scheme worked quite well, with only two collisions and only one of them resulting in my departing the saddle at speed.

It has nothing to do with power on a four-stroke 100cc single, but I'm glad to hear about the dangers of using gasohol on a high-revving two-stroke Thanh. I guess the standard Castrol 2t-autolube I buy from supermarkets or benzine stations isn't the solution to running gasohol without engine damage due to lubrication problems.

It sounds like someone out there in PR lalaland needs to do their homework before advocating these mindless promotions that do more harm than good.

[elkangorito]

Gasohol kills two-strokes - the ethanol dissolves the lubricant (2T, "autolube") and very quickly leads to engine damage - as i experienced in my own bike after accidentally filling with 95 gasohol. Immediate effect - loss of power, refused to rev high, appeared "stuffed" as if the air filter was clogged. After about 200 kilometers engine noise developed. After the next fuel stop power was back to normal which is when i realized i had the wrong fuel, however - con rod bearing and both main bearings were toast already.

Are you suggesting that after 200km, gasohol91 destroyed the bearings?

Edited March 21, 2010 by elkangorito

[neverdie]

Gasohol kills two-strokes - the ethanol dissolves the lubricant (2T, "autolube") and very quickly leads to engine damage - as i experienced in my own bike after accidentally filling with 95 gasohol. Immediate effect - loss of power, refused to rev high, appeared "stuffed" as if the air filter was clogged. After about 200 kilometers engine noise developed. After the next fuel stop power was back to normal which is when i realized i had the wrong fuel, however - con rod bearing and both main bearings were toast already.

Are you suggesting that after 200km, gasohol91 destroyed the bearings?

Ohhh dear.

[Jimi007]

Interesting, so many problems. I have a 13 year old Honda Smile 110 CC 2 stroke and an 8 year old Honda Wave 100 CC 4 stroke. I put whatever they have at the local hand crank pump and never had any problems. My car however says 95 octane right on the filler cover. It really knocks on 91 octane anything, but seems fine on 95 octane gasahol. I have read in the US, gasahol really doesn't save much as it takes a lot of fuel to produce the ethanol.

[Hawk]

Engine Problems Resulting from E10 Ethanol Alcohol Fuel Use:

Ethanol alcohol is an excellent SOLVENT - Ethanol will dissolve plastic, rubber, certain types of fiberglass and even aluminum!

Ethanol can dissolve and disintegrate just about anything that has accumulated in a motor engine.

Example: Ethanol will dissolve resins that create a black sludge that coats and travels through the engine, causing engine stalling and complications, including clogged fuel filters, carburetor jets and injectors.

Ethanol alcohol is a DRYING AGENT and can DISINTEGRATE or DISSOLVE parts.

Ethanol will dry-out and cause cracking and damage to non-alcohol resistant parts, especially rubber and plastic parts and components.

Many engine hoses of older engines are not resistant to alcohol.

Ethanol alcohol is an excellent CLEANSER -While these can have useful purposes, it can also be very problematic...

Ethanol will clean and release years of dirt, rust, sediment and other gunk from the engine and circulate it through the engine, causing clogging of filters and engine parts.

Ethanol will ABSORB WATER. It actually combines (adsorbs and absorbs) with water, and the combined molecules are greater than the sum of each separate molecule.

All alcohols attract and combine with water. Petroleum and most other oil-based compounds are not soluble in water.

Both MTBE and lead (since banned for gas use) did not have an affinity for water.

Ethanol ignites at a higher temperature, compared to conventional non-alcohol gasoline, causing damage to pistons.

E10 can not be added to a tank or pump that contains oyxygenators MTBE or ETBE.

Over 10% ethanol will cause damage to most conventional engines.

The percentage of ethanol contaned in gas at pumps is not closely monitored

[mpetersen]

Not sure what all the fuss is about. In the US, they have no other gas BUT 10% Ethanol fuel. Due to their corn lobbies, Ethanol is in all fuels sold at standard retail gas stations.

As for "not working" or "damaging" bikes/engines, here, for example, is a TSB from BMW:

2007 BMW R 1200 ST Fuel System TSBsTSB Number: SB-00-021-07NHTSA Number: 10030825TSB Date: November 1, 2007Date Added to File: December 7, 2009Failing Component:Fuel System, OtherSummary:BMW motorcycle: engine fuels containing ethanol. BMW motorrad has no objection to the use of si engine fuels containing up to a maximum of 10% ethanol and imposes no warranty restrictions

I think some people have old vehicles which are either stale-dated for Ethanol use, or they are just ageing and in need of repair, regardless of Ethanol mix or not.

As for top-end power, Ethanol should give more power, not less, but possibly slightly lower fuel efficiency.

I have never hesitated putting Gasohol in either my 2004 car (Freelander) or 2005 or 2009, or 1998 BMW Motorbikes.

m

[Thanh-BKK]

e]

Are you suggesting that after 200km, gasohol91 destroyed the bearings?

Hi.

That is correct. It would be too much of a coincidence that those bearings (all three of them) fail within the same week (rather simultaneously) after having survived 90,000+ kilometers without the slightest problem, and that in the week they all fail i had gasohol in the tank. It was gasohol 95 by the way.

Running a two-stroke with gasohol has an effect as if running it without 2T - because the ethanol in gasohol dissolves the 2T. This is what killed the bearings - a bearing without lubrication won't live long.

This is also the reason why manufacturers of two-stroke engines, such as Yamaha and Bombardier, warn against using gasohol and will void any warranty if gasohol is used.

As to the cleaning effect of the stuff, i have a very expensive experience with that, too - with my old Volvo 460. When it was on it's second tank of gasohol 95 the engine stalled in the middle of an intersection and would not start again, i had to be towed to a garage.

They had to change fuel lines, fuel filter, fuel pump and injectors - all off those were clogged with goo which resulted from the gasohol indeed cleaning out the tank - the car was more than 12 years old and all the dirt from those 12 years was released into the system at once when the gasohol "cleaned" the system.

However after all those parts had been replaced (for a cool 32,000 Baht) the car ran just fine on gasohol 95, didn't lose power and also didn't consume more fuel. However with that car it would have been difficult to consume more fuel anyway, the only car i ever drove that needed more fuel than that Volvo was my ex BF's modified Ford Granada with a Chevy V8

Best regards.....

Thanh