I Wonder About This Guy`s Immigration Status......

[Thomas_Merton]

Getting back to the original post, why not spare a fellow human being a lousy 5 baht?  Heck, give the guy 10!  Seriously, if you guys could somehow put yourselves in that same situation, I am sure you would have some kind of feeling for this person. 

Does it really matter the reason for him being in this situation? 

Did it occur to you that maybe he is mentally ill and needs help desperately (even though he had these food cards - who would get a person looking like that to promote their business - get real). 

Whether he spends the money on a non alcoholic drink, or a bottle of Sangsom - does it matter?  You have given him the money already.  If he was an alcoholic, maybe you WOULD have helped him by giving him his hair of the dog? 

If that was your father, your brother, or your son, you would surely love for some stranger to help him out, wouldn't you? 

That very same 5 baht is probably sitting on your bedroom floor collecting dust .  It would not have hurt to help him. 

I am not, however, defending his abuse of you.  But can you imagine people walking by in their suits, not making any eye contact at all, and looking down their noses at you? 

What can 5 baht buy you? 

Half an hour on the internet.  The time it took you to write your original post probably cost you more than that (unless you did it from work). 

If you are working  legally here you would be on at least 50K per month, so that measly 5 baht would not have affected your life. 

Get a grip.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have posted many times on this thread the same stuff which I'll condense a abit here and repeat for you. Giving someone who is begging because their life is in dissarray will not do them any good. If they are mentally ill what good will giving them 5 baht do...will it solve their problem? They need help. If you want to help them then you must do something much more direct then giving them some money and enabling them to avoid getting help or helping themselves. I recommend not giving them money but buying them a meal and sitting down and eating with them and getting to know them a bit. These people need to be treated like human beings. The more bad off they are the more it is obvious that giving them money will not solve their problems.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

...and you are missing a very important point. Nobody expects they can solve someone else’s problems. If you want to try to solve the many problems that cause people to beg then it requires an effort far exceeding the fleeting response to a beggar, please see http://www.makepovertyhistory.org/ if you need some inspiration.

Those who give are responding to an expressed need. It's only 5 Baht, but maybe coupled with another persons 5, and another, there can be enough money to satisfy that need.

If not. So what? It's only 5 Baht.

Edited May 11, 2005 by Thomas_Merton

[gburns57au]

I will concede that, if you will do the same for your remark about religious learning.

Then we can shake hands and retire to our respective corners.

I have nothing against religious people ...each to their own....I just dont believe that this is the place to expound religious views.

Is it any less or more giving of me to give to a street beggar or a charity.....should we give to beggars or not ???...to me it has little to do with religion but rather ones own preferences, because I dont give to street beggars doesnt make me any less a good person because I decide to give in a different way or to different people. If I give money to an orphanage, am I a bad person because I dont give to a beggar.

Now I made a comment....but I didnt include such things as Prat or F*** off. Maybe as sometimes happens I dont phrase things in such an eloquent way, but the intent was not to insult....you had the intent to insult. There Sir, lies the difference.

[klongmaster]

He must be doing the rounds because I saw him this afternoon in Silom.

Scruffy clothes...dirty bag...selling post cards.

When I went past he had a couple of Thai guys baled up.

Now I come home and read this. Wow.

There. but for the grace of God .......

[chownah]

...and you are missing a very important point. Nobody expects they can solve someone else’s problems. If you want to try to solve the many problems that cause people to beg then it requires an effort far exceeding the fleeting response to a beggar, please see http://www.makepovertyhistory.org/ if you need some inspiration.

Those who give are responding to an expressed need. It's only 5 Baht, but maybe coupled with another persons 5, and another, there can be enough money to satisfy that need.

If not. So what? It's only 5 Baht.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thomas_Merton,

You are exactly correct when you say above, "If you want to try to solve the many problems that cause people to beg then it requires an effort far exceeding the fleeting response to a beggar,......" This is exactly what I've been saying all along. You can't solve anyones problems by giving them 5 baht!!! So why give them the money. I don't think giving a begging person money is a moral injustice, but it isn't really going to help them in any meaningful way either. I'm so glad you understand.

Chownah

[Thomas_Merton]

I will concede that, if you will do the same for your remark about religious learning.

Then we can shake hands and retire to our respective corners.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have nothing against religious people ...each to their own....I just dont believe that this is the place to expound religious views.

Is it any less or more giving of me to give to a street beggar or a charity.....should we give to beggars or not ???...to me it has little to do with religion but rather ones own preferences, because I dont give to street beggars doesnt make me any less a good person because I decide to give in a different way or to different people. If I give money to an orphanage, am I a bad person because I dont give to a beggar.

Now I made a comment....but I didnt include such things as Prat or F*** off. Maybe as sometimes happens I dont phrase things in such an eloquent way, but the intent was not to insult....you had the intent to insult. There Sir, lies the difference.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The "Prat" was nothing personal - just trying to demonstrate your incorrect logic.

The F word I have conceded, even though it was remarked in parenthesis.

But I must say you are the only Aussie I have ever had contact with, who is offended by a bit of swearing.

Edited May 11, 2005 by Thomas_Merton

[gburns57au]

The "Prat" was nothing personal - just trying to demonstrate your incorrect logic.

The F word I have conceded, even though it was remarked in parenthesis.

But I must say you are the only Aussie I have ever had contact with, who is offended by a bit of swearing.

Was I incorrect in saying that some people can travel the world and still be naive about what they see and perceive ??? it was a general observation

I get insulted more each day then most people do in a year....this morning I was a Dog C**t, I was told to &lt;deleted&gt; off at least ten times, My mothers origins and her previous employment choices were questioned on numerous occasions....these were just a few of the remarks I cop each day in my work....it is a fun job....

So a few swear words dont offend me....none of your posts have offended me in the slightest....I just fail to see the necessity in your making such a post when it was uncalled for.....you are an intelligent person without a doubt and you express yourself so well....so why the need to resort to such a manner of posting ??

[Thomas_Merton]

...and you are missing a very important point. Nobody expects they can solve someone else’s problems. If you want to try to solve the many problems that cause people to beg then it requires an effort far exceeding the fleeting response to a beggar, please see http://www.makepovertyhistory.org/ if you need some inspiration.

Those who give are responding to an expressed need. It's only 5 Baht, but maybe coupled with another persons 5, and another, there can be enough money to satisfy that need.

If not. So what? It's only 5 Baht.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thomas_Merton,

You are exactly correct when you say above, "If you want to try to solve the many problems that cause people to beg then it requires an effort far exceeding the fleeting response to a beggar,......" This is exactly what I've been saying all along. ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Whereas you make a conclusion that allows you an excuse for keeping your hands in your pockets, there are others who use the argument as a justification for giving.

It's only 5 Baht, but maybe coupled with another person’s 5, and another, there can be enough money to satisfy the immediate needs of the person begging.

If not. So what? It's only 5 Baht.

[chownah]

The "Prat" was nothing personal - just trying to demonstrate your incorrect logic.

The F word I have conceded, even though it was remarked in parenthesis.

But I must say you are the only Aussie I have ever had contact with, who is offended by a bit of swearing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Was I incorrect in saying that some people can travel the world and still be naive about what they see and perceive ??? it was a general observation

I get insulted more each day then most people do in a year....this morning I was a Dog C**t, I was told to &lt;deleted&gt; off at least ten times, My mothers origins and her previous employment choices were questioned on numerous occasions....these were just a few of the remarks I cop each day in my work....it is a fun job....

So a few swear words dont offend me....none of your posts have offended me in the slightest....I just fail to see the necessity in your making such a post when it was uncalled for.....you are an intelligent person without a doubt and you express yourself so well....so why the need to resort to such a manner of posting ??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why does he need to resort to such a manner of posting? I'm not sure but perhaps coprolalia:

"an uncontrollable use of obscene language; often accompanied by mental disorders"

www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn

Chownah

[chuchok]

The "Prat" was nothing personal - just trying to demonstrate your incorrect logic.

The F word I have conceded, even though it was remarked in parenthesis.

But I must say you are the only Aussie I have ever had contact with, who is offended by a bit of swearing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Was I incorrect in saying that some people can travel the world and still be naive about what they see and perceive ??? it was a general observation

I get insulted more each day then most people do in a year....this morning I was a Dog C**t, I was told to &lt;deleted&gt; off at least ten times, My mothers origins and her previous employment choices were questioned on numerous occasions....these were just a few of the remarks I cop each day in my work....it is a fun job....

So a few swear words dont offend me....none of your posts have offended me in the slightest....I just fail to see the necessity in your making such a post when it was uncalled for.....you are an intelligent person without a doubt and you express yourself so well....so why the need to resort to such a manner of posting ??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why does he need to resort to such a manner of posting? I'm not sure but perhaps coprolalia:

"an uncontrollable use of obscene language; often accompanied by mental disorders"

www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn

Chownah

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are ####ing joking?

[Thomas_Merton]

Why does he need to resort to such a manner of posting?  I'm not sure but perhaps coprolalia:

"an uncontrollable use of obscene language; often accompanied by mental disorders"

www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn

Chownah

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Keep us informed when you've got past the letter "C", won't you?

[chownah]

Why does he need to resort to such a manner of posting?  I'm not sure but perhaps coprolalia:

"an uncontrollable use of obscene language; often accompanied by mental disorders"

www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn

Chownah

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Keep us informed when you've got past the letter "C", won't you?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OK, how about dyskinesia as in tardive dyskinesia?

Well, you asked.

[chuchok]

Why does he need to resort to such a manner of posting?  I'm not sure but perhaps coprolalia:

"an uncontrollable use of obscene language; often accompanied by mental disorders"

www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn

Chownah

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Keep us informed when you've got past the letter "C", won't you?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OK, how about dyskinesia as in tardive dyskinesia?

Well, you asked.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You've obviously never played in the ####ing front ####ing row, as a tighthead ####ing prop.

[sriracha john]

perhaps coprolalia:

"an uncontrollable use of obscene language; often accompanied by mental disorders"

not to be confused with echolalia which is repeating everything said to you, and again, often accompanied by mental disorders, and which seems very appropriate on this thread.

"stop it"

"no, you stop it"

"no, YOU stop it"

"no, YOU stop it"

"no, YOU stop it"

Edited May 11, 2005 by sriracha john

[Thomas_Merton]

After reading all the recent posting and spending the last half hour meditating on the arguments, both for and against, I see no alternative but the following grown-up solution: we stand up, take a step back, unzip Tivoli Gardens, point Percy at the screen, all those who make contact with more than the keyboard have won, the rest give 5 baht to the next beggar they meet.

Then we can return to TV, to yet again demonstrate what mature adults we are.

[chonabot]

Thomas , why is it that when someone disagrees with or challenges your view ,  you insult them?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I suppose you are right, in this instance.

Although I am not sure about the definitive nature of your statement, implying, as it does something I repeat.

Often it’s just a case, as children always excuse themselves, of who threw the first stone.

Never really a defence, so Mea Culpa.

Stones always remind me of another story I once heard. A prostitute or adulterous woman was being lined up to be stoned to death for her crimes. There, Someone said, the interesting words, “Let those who are without guilt, cast the first stone”.

Not a bad motto for TV, don’t you think?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

An intelligient answer to a slightly provocative question.

Cheers!

[8ball]

As I sit here,

i am amazed that grown men will carry on like children. As in tit for tat , i have to have the last word here"blah blah blah". Maybe you're not grown men. It's beyond comprenshion, do you not have anything else to do with your lives, or are you like the scamp man and this is you life.

Get a grip on reality, o.k. so we have a farang beggar here in BKK, who cares, give him money, dont give him money? Personally i would'nt give him the steam of my piss, in fact i would probably through him out in front of a taxi on Satorn and that would solve everybody's problems.

Seriously guys, lets try to chill out and behave like adults. I really would like to foster the guy and give him a good home like he obviously deserves. I can go to work every day and feed him until he his strong enough to go out and look for a job. Maybe he can be a good english teacher if he is from an english speaking part of the world. I have some friends who are english teacher's and they can help train him.

Perhaps if he plays his cards right he would have enough money to go home, wherver that is.

But please guys relax, this is Thailand, there are a lot of more important issues or serious matters to attend to than this.

Choc dee na.

8ball

[dr_Pat_Pong]

So manyposters, so many words, all over bloody 5 baht Jeeeeez

[maerim]

Personally i would'nt give him the steam of my piss, in fact i would probably through him out in front of a taxi on Satorn and that would solve everybody's problems.

Seriously guys, lets try to chill out and behave like adults.

Some adult!

[dr_Pat_Pong]

[chownah]

Yeah, really, what adults! How many of the posts actually had to do with the original topic which related to his immigration status? Nothing but a bunch of off topic blah blah blah.

[ozzydom]

Yeah, really, what adults!  How many of the posts actually had to do with the original topic which related to his immigration status?  Nothing but a bunch of off topic blah blah blah.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And who is the member whom has contributed 15% of the total replies to the O/P many of which have been "off Topic" or just making derogative remarks or casting aspersions on such things as the sanity of other posters.???

C,mon Cinderella,s ! see if the shoe fits.

[Khun Larry]

begged me to give him 5 baht !!! He said in an American

accent " please man, I'm really hungry and thirsty

and I don't have any money ". I refused to do so

because in any case I would rather give the money to a Thai person

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Cheap POS

Maybe that can be you someday

[Neeranam]

Yeah, really, what adults! How many of the posts actually had to do with the original topic which related to his immigration status? Nothing but a bunch of off topic blah blah blah.

So, what about his immigration status?

I guess he hasn't got a visa.

The police are not going to waste their time with him.

I have known a couple of farnag beggars who diidn't have visas and slept in the park. The police never bothered with them after they realised thay didn't have a visa.

Sometimes the police can be more compassionate than fellow countrymen.

[Zarkow]

I wrote: Begging is never a paying business. I defy anyone to find one person (apart from a Religious monk) who chooses begging as a way of making money.

Being an experienced man as you are, you are still incorrect.

Back in my homecountry begging in subways are illegal. This was never really an real problem some 15 years ago (we had a handfull locals back then) but in recent years there has been an huge increase in numbers of beggers, often walking together, all from eastern europe. Not to seldom, there on tourist-visas.

When they are arrested by the police, as reported several times in the newspaper, the can often carry 1.000 to 2.000 SEK and above (roughly 5.000Baht to 10.000baht) on them, and police is warning anyone from giving them any money, since they already make more money per day then I did as a programmer back there!

So before you say that 'begging' isn't a job, get yourself educated.

Look, if you want to give 5baht to a man in the street, do so. But don't judge other peoples actions if they choose or choose not to.

I give money to charity-organisations, then I know where they end up (kinda). Or like a previous poster, giving money to a man they gotten to learn (briefly) and had been sick - a real gesture I can really relate to. But I wouldn't judge you of those who wouldn't do the same. It's your money, it's your own option what you do with it.

[RDN]

...I have known a couple of farnag beggars who diidn't have visas and slept in the park. The police never bothered with them after they realised thay didn't have a visa.

Sometimes the police can be more compassionate than fellow countrymen.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What? The police didn't do anything... and you think it's because they have compassion!

They didn't bother with them after they realised they had no money.

[chownah]

Yeah, really, what adults!  How many of the posts actually had to do with the original topic which related to his immigration status?  Nothing but a bunch of off topic blah blah blah.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And who is the member whom has contributed 15% of the total replies to the O/P many of which have been "off Topic" or just making derogative remarks or casting aspersions on such things as the sanity of other posters.???

C,mon Cinderella,s ! see if the shoe fits.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

'Twas I, Chownah who was off topic. I don't believe that I was casting aspersions or making derogative remarks. I believe that most of my posting was in response to previous posts. If these previous posts were off topic then so was I. My mention of coprolalia was in response to a post that asked the question of why people had to reply with abusive language and having studied psychology before it occured to me that a possible reason was in fact coprolalia and I only suggested it as a POSSIBILITY. It is a possibility, in fact, but not a very likely one. I mentioned tardive dyskenisia as a response to a post that asked me to report back when I came up with something after the letter 'c'....so I did. I think you'll find that I do not initiate these bizarre flights from topic but I'm glad to go wherever the members of TV want to take the conversation. For instance, what is the point of this post of yours. Are you trying to make me feel bad boo hoo! Are you trying to inform the public of who the culprits are; then why pick on me alone....I was just following the flow. I suggest that if you are concerned that some thread is off topic that you notify a moderator. But if you don't want to and instead you want to make posts like these then that's OK with me too. If I don't want to read what's in a thread I just don't read it.

[ozzydom]

O

Yeah, really, what adults!  How many of the posts actually had to do with the original topic which related to his immigration status?  Nothing but a bunch of off topic blah blah blah.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And who is the member whom has contributed 15% of the total replies to the O/P many of which have been "off Topic" or just making derogative remarks or casting aspersions on such things as the sanity of other posters.???

C,mon Cinderella,s ! see if the shoe fits.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

'Twas I, Chownah who was off topic. I don't believe that I was casting aspersions or making derogative remarks. I believe that most of my posting was in response to previous posts. If these previous posts were off topic then so was I. My mention of coprolalia was in response to a post that asked the question of why people had to reply with abusive language and having studied psychology before it occured to me that a possible reason was in fact coprolalia and I only suggested it as a POSSIBILITY. It is a possibility, in fact, but not a very likely one. I mentioned tardive dyskenisia as a response to a post that asked me to report back when I came up with something after the letter 'c'....so I did. I think you'll find that I do not initiate these bizarre flights from topic but I'm glad to go wherever the members of TV want to take the conversation. For instance, what is the point of this post of yours. Are you trying to make me feel bad boo hoo! Are you trying to inform the public of who the culprits are; then why pick on me alone....I was just following the flow. I suggest that if you are concerned that some thread is off topic that you notify a moderator. But if you don't want to and instead you want to make posts like these then that's OK with me too. If I don't want to read what's in a thread I just don't read it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OK Cinderella, I,m sure your guilty plea will be taken into account at sentencing, but seriously ,personal attacks on posters do nothing for the integrity of the forum,and only make the attacker look a right prat.

Off topic I know but as its my last word on the subject a bit of. leeway is appreciated . Thank you mods for your indulgence.

ozzydom

[FarangYaayYaaw]

I know a American guy who deserted the army while on leave in Bangkok during the Vietnam war. He was stuck there for over 25 years - got married and had 3 kids. Was OK for a while until both he & his wife became heroin addicts. He used to beg for money on an overpass on Petchburi. He said he had much better luck with Thais than tourists. He was scared to leave Thailand because of all those years without a visa, and the desertion charge waiting for him back home. He finally sobered up and some of us helped him make a deal with the Thai & American govt. whereby he went to Thai immigration jail for about 3 weeks while his relatives in the states got enough money together to get him home. He then spent about another 6 months locked up in the states. I've lost touch with him, but I heard he was able to get his wife and kids to the US as well.

[RDN]

...Thank you mods for your indulgence.

ozzydom

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're welcome!

[americana]

There is a long term homeless ( 3 months plus) farang who hangs around outside the Emporium and Benjasiri(sp) park, I keep thinking stopping and chatting to him to see if I can help but I am worried he might be crazy or even worse a sepo.