I Wonder About This Guy`s Immigration Status......

[Thomas_Merton]

(I have read this thread with a great deal of interest. It is quite rare that so much thought and well written postings appear on a thread in TV, especially on a subject of such importance.)

Permit me to come with a couple of comments.

To clear up some misinformation that has been written: Begging is never a paying business. I defy anyone to find one person (apart from a Religious monk) who chooses begging as a way of making money. There are lots of stories, but at most, they are just apocryphal excuses for inaction.

The whole dilemma of how to treat a beggar is not easy, governed as we are by our own desire and ambitions. We have to make difficult choices depending often on our mood, our level of stress, our ability to relate to strangers or our sense of our own security. Many factors spill in at these times, and that is why Great Traditions have lots of stories that try to help us use this wonderful gift – our freedom of choice.

From the Buddhist tradition:

Years ago in Japan, there was a man and a girl beggar who sat all day long by the side of a road leading up to a Buddhist temple. Many people would pass by each day. They cared little about the man who was begging, but at times would drop some coins on the young girl that sat close by him. When night came, they would return to the little shed in which they sought shelter, and shake out the alms that they had gained, and count it. The man's pockets always had less coins than that of the young woman. The man sat in the same place and in the same miserable clothes as the woman, yet there was such a great difference in the amount of alms they received. “Why?” the man was curious to know.

“I am born of a beggar family,” said the girl. “My father was a beggar; my grandfather was a beggar. I may have to trace back to some seven generations before I can come to my forefather who was not a beggar. For me, fate is shut. I can do nothing except begging. Only by begging can I somehow live - just as a cat can live because someone gives it milk to drink. You tell me that I must work for a living like others. But nobody will have a beggar-girl for a housemaid; no factory will have a beggar-girl for a hand. As loathe as this begging is to me, it is now the only means by which I am able to live.”

A beggar begs because he/she is helpless. Circumstances may vary, perhaps through laziness, or lack of opportunity, or even through the abuse of drugs, but the misfortune of being driven to beg for a living, in this sense, is truly a humiliating thing.

From the Christian tradition:

A man was going down the mountain road from Jerusalem to Jericho, and he was attacked by a gang of robbers who stripped him of everything, beat him up, and ran off, leaving him half-dead. By chance a priest was going down that road. But when he saw the man, he went by on the other side. In the same way a temple official came along. When he saw the man, he also went by on the other side. Then a foreigner from Samaria travelling along that road happened upon the man, and when he saw him, he was filled with compassion and went to help. He treated his wounds with olive oil and wine and bandaged them. He put him on his own donkey and took him to an inn, where he took care of him. The next morning he paid the innkeeper and said, "Take care of this man, and if it costs more than this, I will pay you when I return." Then Jesus asked, "Which one of these three people do you think acted like a neighbour to the man who was attacked by the gang of robbers?" The expert answered, "The one who acted with compassion." Then Jesus said to him, "You go and do the same."

There are no easy answers about what to do. We must all make our own choices.

Only we, and the Ultimate Judge, will know if our intentions are based upon pure selfishness, or on a need to gain credits or, hopefully, on a genuine compassion for a fellow human being.

Edited May 10, 2005 by Thomas_Merton

[ozzydom]

(I have read this thread with a great deal of interest. It is quite rare that so much thought and well written postings appear on a thread in TV, especially on a subject of such importance.)

Permit me to come with a couple of comments.

To clear up some misinformation that has been written: Begging is never a paying business. I defy anyone to find one person (apart from a Religious monk) who chooses begging as a way of making money. There are lots of stories, but at most, they are just apocryphal excuses for inaction.

The whole dilemma of how to treat a beggar is not easy, governed as we are by our own desire and ambitions. We have to make difficult choices depending often on our mood, our level of stress, our ability to relate to strangers or our sense of our own security. Many factors spill in at these times, and that is why Great Traditions have lots of stories that try to help us use this wonderful gift – our freedom of choice.

From the Buddhist tradition:

Years ago in Japan, there was a man and a girl beggar who sat all day long by the side of a road leading up to a Buddhist temple. Many people would pass by each day. They cared little about the man who was begging, but at times would drop some coins on the young girl that sat close by him. When night came, they would return to the little shed in which they sought shelter, and shake out the alms that they had gained, and count it. The man's pockets always had less coins than that of the young woman. The man sat in the same place and in the same miserable clothes as the woman, yet there was such a great difference in the amount of alms they received. “Why?” the man was curious to know.

“I am born of a beggar family,” said the girl. “My father was a beggar; my grandfather was a beggar. I may have to trace back to some seven generations before I can come to my forefather who was not a beggar. For me, fate is shut. I can do nothing except begging. Only by begging can I somehow live - just as a cat can live because someone gives it milk to drink. You tell me that I must work for a living like others. But nobody will have a beggar-girl for a housemaid; no factory will have a beggar-girl for a hand. As loathe as this begging is to me, it is now the only means by which I am able to live.”

A beggar begs because he/she is helpless. Circumstances may vary, perhaps through laziness, or lack of opportunity, or even through the abuse of drugs, but the misfortune of being driven to beg for a living, in this sense, is truly a humiliating thing.

From the Christian tradition:

A man was going down the mountain road from Jerusalem to Jericho, and he was attacked by a gang of robbers who stripped him of everything, beat him up, and ran off, leaving him half-dead. By chance a priest was going down that road. But when he saw the man, he went by on the other side. In the same way a temple official came along. When he saw the man, he also went by on the other side. Then a foreigner from Samaria travelling along that road happened upon the man, and when he saw him, he was filled with compassion and went to help. He treated his wounds with olive oil and wine and bandaged them. He put him on his own donkey and took him to an inn, where he took care of him. The next morning he paid the innkeeper and said, "Take care of this man, and if it costs more than this, I will pay you when I return." Then Jesus asked, "Which one of these three people do you think acted like a neighbour to the man who was attacked by the gang of robbers?" The expert answered, "The one who acted with compassion." Then Jesus said to him, "You go and do the same."

There are no easy answers about what to do. We must all make our own choices.

Only we, and the Ultimate Judge, will know if our intentions are based upon pure selfishness, or on a need to gain credits or, hopefully, on a genuine compassion for a fellow human being.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well said Thomas, makes me wish my school days had'nt finished when I was 13 maybe I could have been as eloquent.

[Martin]

Why is 'midas' asking us how the chap got in this situation? Why didn't he ask him? (And maybe enlighten him that his Embassy would help as far as their orders permitted them to.)

[Tornado]

I just find it hard to fathom how anyone on the planet can walk away from some one in need.

Are they the same people that dont mind giving money to Thai girls, because they get something out of it?

I noticed after the Tsunami devastation, how everyone came together to help out the needy (still ongoing), it is such a beautiful thing to see.

I think some of you should get your priorities straight.

[gburns57au]

(I have read this thread with a great deal of interest. It is quite rare that so much thought and well written postings appear on a thread in TV, especially on a subject of such importance.)

Permit me to come with a couple of comments.

To clear up some misinformation that has been written: Begging is never a paying business. I defy anyone to find one person (apart from a Religious monk) who chooses begging as a way of making money. There are lots of stories, but at most, they are just apocryphal excuses for inaction.

The whole dilemma of how to treat a beggar is not easy, governed as we are by our own desire and ambitions. We have to make difficult choices depending often on our mood, our level of stress, our ability to relate to strangers or our sense of our own security. Many factors spill in at these times, and that is why Great Traditions have lots of stories that try to help us use this wonderful gift – our freedom of choice.

From the Buddhist tradition:

Years ago in Japan, there was a man and a girl beggar who sat all day long by the side of a road leading up to a Buddhist temple. Many people would pass by each day. They cared little about the man who was begging, but at times would drop some coins on the young girl that sat close by him. When night came, they would return to the little shed in which they sought shelter, and shake out the alms that they had gained, and count it. The man's pockets always had less coins than that of the young woman. The man sat in the same place and in the same miserable clothes as the woman, yet there was such a great difference in the amount of alms they received. “Why?” the man was curious to know.

“I am born of a beggar family,” said the girl. “My father was a beggar; my grandfather was a beggar. I may have to trace back to some seven generations before I can come to my forefather who was not a beggar. For me, fate is shut. I can do nothing except begging. Only by begging can I somehow live - just as a cat can live because someone gives it milk to drink. You tell me that I must work for a living like others. But nobody will have a beggar-girl for a housemaid; no factory will have a beggar-girl for a hand. As loathe as this begging is to me, it is now the only means by which I am able to live.”

A beggar begs because he/she is helpless. Circumstances may vary, perhaps through laziness, or lack of opportunity, or even through the abuse of drugs, but the misfortune of being driven to beg for a living, in this sense, is truly a humiliating thing.

From the Christian tradition:

A man was going down the mountain road from Jerusalem to Jericho, and he was attacked by a gang of robbers who stripped him of everything, beat him up, and ran off, leaving him half-dead. By chance a priest was going down that road. But when he saw the man, he went by on the other side. In the same way a temple official came along. When he saw the man, he also went by on the other side. Then a foreigner from Samaria travelling along that road happened upon the man, and when he saw him, he was filled with compassion and went to help. He treated his wounds with olive oil and wine and bandaged them. He put him on his own donkey and took him to an inn, where he took care of him. The next morning he paid the innkeeper and said, "Take care of this man, and if it costs more than this, I will pay you when I return." Then Jesus asked, "Which one of these three people do you think acted like a neighbour to the man who was attacked by the gang of robbers?" The expert answered, "The one who acted with compassion." Then Jesus said to him, "You go and do the same."

There are no easy answers about what to do. We must all make our own choices.

Only we, and the Ultimate Judge, will know if our intentions are based upon pure selfishness, or on a need to gain credits or, hopefully, on a genuine compassion for a fellow human being.

Sorry you are wrong.....there are many professional beggars in not just Thailand but many countries....even non third world countries....

of course you would recognise professional beggars...they are the ones in the suit and tie with a plastic cup.

Open your eyes Tom....not everything is as it seems, especially in Thailand...

[Khutan]

of course you would recognise professional beggars...they are the ones in the suit and tie with a plastic cup. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just near the Champagne bar on Suk, there is a occasionally a beggar there with at least 3 baht if not 5 baht of gold around his neck.

[Thomas_Merton]

Well said Thomas, makes me wish my school days had'nt finished when I was 13 maybe I could have been as eloquent.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Education in the scale of important things to acquire doesn’t mean sh*t.

The majority of the soi dogs in Issan have exactly the same eyes as most of my teachers.

Better to have and practise, the humanity that shines through your postings.

[Thomas_Merton]

Sorry you are wrong.....there are many professional beggars in not just Thailand but many countries....even non third world countries....

of course you would recognise professional beggars...they are the ones in the suit and tie with a plastic cup. 

Open your eyes Tom....not everything is as it seems, especially in Thailand...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I tell you what. Find one of these beggars, interview the fortunate one, take his/her picture, publish your findings here on TV ( or in any newspaper of your choice)...

...and then we will continue our discussion.

Until then, I will remain, a 57 year old, half-blind, ex-ICRC worker, who has worked in most war zones and almost as many countries as the previous Pope visited, but seemingly having learnt very little,

Yours,

Thomas.

Edited May 10, 2005 by Thomas_Merton

[chownah]

Thomas_Merton,

My comments will be typed in blue.

(I have read this thread with a great deal of interest. It is quite rare that so much thought and well written postings appear on a thread in TV, especially on a subject of such importance.)

(You are such a flatterer!!!)

Permit me to come with a couple of comments.

You don't need permission to post comments on TV.

To clear up some misinformation that has been written: Begging is never a paying business. I defy anyone to find one person (apart from a Religious monk) who chooses begging as a way of making money. There are lots of stories, but at most, they are just apocryphal excuses for inaction.

I think you are being condescending here. Its always good to have misinformation cleared up unless its cleared up with more misinformation.  you seem to think that you are the last word on this subject and you are going to help us out by giving us the real scoop.  Actually you are just giving your opinion, just like the rest of us.  You are defying me to find one person etc. etc. etc.  Are you being defiant?  I have personally known people who have looked at their choices in life and for the moment decided to go begging because it provided them with the best income for the least BS.

The whole dilemma of how to treat a beggar is not easy, governed as we are by our own desire and ambitions. We have to make difficult choices depending often on our mood, our level of stress, our ability to relate to strangers or our sense of our own security. Many factors spill in at these times, and that is why Great Traditions have lots of stories that try to help us use this wonderful gift – our freedom of choice.

From the Buddhist tradition:

Years ago in Japan, there was a man and a girl beggar who sat all day long by the side of a road leading up to a Buddhist temple. Many people would pass by each day. They cared little about the man who was begging, but at times would drop some coins on the young girl that sat close by him. When night came, they would return to the little shed in which they sought shelter, and shake out the alms that they had gained, and count it. The man's pockets always had less coins than that of the young woman. The man sat in the same place and in the same miserable clothes as the woman, yet there was such a great difference in the amount of alms they received. “Why?” the man was curious to know.

“I am born of a beggar family,” said the girl. “My father was a beggar; my grandfather was a beggar. I may have to trace back to some seven generations before I can come to my forefather who was not a beggar. For me, fate is shut. I can do nothing except begging. Only by begging can I somehow live - just as a cat can live because someone gives it milk to drink. You tell me that I must work for a living like others. But nobody will have a beggar-girl for a housemaid; no factory will have a beggar-girl for a hand. As loathe as this begging is to me, it is now the only means by which I am able to live.”

A beggar begs because he/she is helpless. Circumstances may vary, perhaps through laziness, or lack of opportunity, or even through the abuse of drugs, but the misfortune of being driven to beg for a living, in this sense, is truly a humiliating thing.

It may be that some people in some places are nearly helpless but the vast majority of people who beg have choices and they choose to beg as it provides for their life needs.  I've known people who beg who are not driven to beg...they drive themselves.  I've know people who begs in America who made more than the minimum  wage day in and day out!  I won't "defy" you to find a person who begs that has no choices in life and is totally helpless but I will respectfull request that you report the particulars here on TV if you should find one and personally confirm they are helpless by getting to know them well enough to make that judgement.

From the Christian tradition:

A man was going down the mountain road from Jerusalem to Jericho, and he was attacked by a gang of robbers who stripped him of everything, beat him up, and ran off, leaving him half-dead. By chance a priest was going down that road. But when he saw the man, he went by on the other side. In the same way a temple official came along. When he saw the man, he also went by on the other side. Then a foreigner from Samaria travelling along that road happened upon the man, and when he saw him, he was filled with compassion and went to help. He treated his wounds with olive oil and wine and bandaged them. He put him on his own donkey and took him to an inn, where he took care of him. The next morning he paid the innkeeper and said, "Take care of this man, and if it costs more than this, I will pay you when I return." Then Jesus asked, "Which one of these three people do you think acted like a neighbour to the man who was attacked by the gang of robbers?" The expert answered, "The one who acted with compassion." Then Jesus said to him, "You go and do the same."

There are no easy answers about what to do. We must all make our own choices.

We all do make our own choices....even people who beg.

Only we, and the Ultimate Judge, will know if our intentions are based upon pure selfishness, or on a need to gain credits or, hopefully, on a genuine compassion for a fellow human being.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Using the term 'beggar' helps people to forget that these are just people like you and me. They have the same desires and needs that all of us have. Actually they are just people who beg. By using the term 'beggar' it is easy to view them as less than human.

[Khutan]

What my wife does is interesting;

if they are missing body parts like arms or legs, we always give a few baht.

It they look like they can work say this " mee song tau, song muur, bye tham na"

which translates as "you have two feet and two hands - go and grow rice" .

[chownah]

Well said Thomas, makes me wish my school days had'nt finished when I was 13 maybe I could have been as eloquent.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Education in the scale of important things to acquire doesn’t mean sh*t.

The majority of the soi dogs in Issan have exactly the same eyes as most of my teachers.

Better to have and practise, the humanity that shines through your postings.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thomas-Merton,

I would like you to make a list of the scale of important things to acquire. I'd like to know what you think is important to acquire.

Are most of your teachers color blind. Dogs are. Otherwise what does this mean.

I don't understand "Better to have and practise, the humanity that shines through your postings." Will you please explain this?

Chownah

[Thomas_Merton]

Thomas-Merton,

I would like you to make a list of the scale of important things to acquire.  I'd like to know what you think is important to acquire.

Are most of your teachers color blind.  Dogs are.  Otherwise what does this mean.

I don't understand "Better to have and practise, the humanity that shines through your postings."  Will you please explain this?

Chownah

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Off topic, old chap.

How about, before you crawl back under your stone, instead of just destructively criticising others and demanding explanations for points (addressed to another) you seem unable to comprehend, giving us the benefits of your own wisdom.

What codes of practice do you follow that guide your relationships with your fellow human beings? Not only those you consider your equal, but those you look up to and those who fall beneath your level.

Because this is the heart of this debate: how we treat others even those who apparently repulse us?

[chownah]

...............

What codes of practice do you follow that guide your relationships with your fellow human beings? Not only those you consider your equal, but those you look up to and those who fall beneath your level.

................

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think that anyone falls "beneath my level".

[Thomas_Merton]

...............

What codes of practice do you follow that guide your relationships with your fellow human beings? Not only those you consider your equal, but those you look up to and those who fall beneath your level.

................

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think that anyone falls "beneath my level".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There you are, we are in complete agreement already!

Please continue...

[DaveYo]

Well if all members here contributed just 5 baht each, that would come to around 92,500 baht total.

Please donate to me. Thanks

Daveyo

[andy50]

went to a wat in pattaya once , there was a dog lying on its side, in a bad way with its eyes closed ,ants all over it ,so i sat alongside it on the step ,pulled its lip up and poured in some freezing cold water,(big mistake,) it leapt up in shock and died ,most embarrassing ! perhaps i should have given it 5 bht instead

[chownah]

...............

What codes of practice do you follow that guide your relationships with your fellow human beings? Not only those you consider your equal, but those you look up to and those who fall beneath your level.

................

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think that anyone falls "beneath my level".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There you are, we are in complete agreement already!

Please continue...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would like you to present a list of some of the things on your scale of important things to acquire.

[gburns57au]

Sorry you are wrong.....there are many professional beggars in not just Thailand but many countries....even non third world countries....

of course you would recognise professional beggars...they are the ones in the suit and tie with a plastic cup. 

Open your eyes Tom....not everything is as it seems, especially in Thailand...

I tell you what. Find one of these beggars, interview the fortunate one, take his/her picture, publish your findings here on TV ( or in any newspaper of your choice)...

...and then we will continue our discussion.

Until then, I will remain, a 57 year old, half-blind, ex-ICRC worker, who has worked in most war zones and almost as many countries as the previous Pope visited, but seemingly having learnt very little,

Yours,

Thomas.

No Tom....I dont have to do that...

The aforementioned merc driver...SCAM

I can remember the old girl and the half dead boy on her lap..and how I saw them an hour later....walking down the street....it was a miracle really...the kid was a real survivor.......SCAM

the deaf and dumb guy....who I saw having lunch with his family in McDonalds in Pattaya....chattering away to his family....about 12 to the table and all well dressed...he shut up when he saw me.....BIG SCAM...outside the Royal Garden

A guy on Second Rd with the fake artificial leg.....how do I know its fake...cos he carries it under his arm at the end of the day....SCAM

A good beggar can make 2-3000 baht a day.....especially in a town full of gullible tourists....

I dont mind, if a guy is working his guts out for very little, buying him a beer or something to eat....or if I know for sure that someone is really down on their luck, I will shout them a feed....no probs...but I wouldnt give to some stranger on a street that I know nothing about.

I know a lot of people that have travelled extensively and are still gullible and naive about what they see and perceive....

oh and BTW...I really dont come here for the religious learning either....your belief is your own thing....please keep it to yourself.

[Tornado]

Pedantic, cantankerous, obstreperous, argumentative, peevish and sullen come to mind.

[Neeranam]

How does a person end up in such a desperate situation

and wouldn't it be easier for them to just go home

to their own country?

Sometimes it ain't that easy to go home. I knew a couple of couple of British guys down on their luck, well actually suffering from the disease of addiction(some here I know will say that they weren't and just had no will-power), who were penniless in Bangkok. They went to the British Embassy and they couldn't, or wouldn't help them. They said that all they could do would be to contact family or friends in UK and ask them to send money. One guys family had disowned him and wouldn't send any money, the other guy said he had no-one to contact. I believe that the embassy used lend money to people to get home, but this is not the case now, to my knowledge. So, these guys were left to beg money for and if it had not been for the compassionate people that gave some money, they may well be dead or locked up in the Hilton. Both of these guys are very good friends of mine now and have been off their "substance of abuse" for a few years now, leading very happy, prosperous lives.

I had a similar experience in Dacca. The embassy wouldn't lend mem any money.

I would have given the guy some money.

Many years ago I woke up in a Pat Pong bar after a few weeks on a binge. I had somehow lost my atm card and all my money(cash) was gone. I was to find out later that my bank account had be emptied. I sat on the side of the road, a trembling, sick, dirty wreck, with the same scruffy clothes that I had had on for a few days. I remember thinking, "what the &lt;deleted&gt; am I going to do". I asked(begged) someone for a baht coin to phone my mate. He was out, and I was beginning to fell very very sick. I sat near where some yuppie guys were having their morning coffee before going to work, and through desperation asked them for some money. I didn't say what it was for. To be honest, I would have used it to buy a big bottle of Chang. They told me to ###### off. I walked away and sat down again, feeling really desparate and an American guy, who will always be in my debt, came up to me and asked how I was. I told him my story, and he took me to the local Christian Hospital. When I said that I had no money, he said not to worry and he would take care of it. I stayed in for a day and a night and was put on a drip for gastratis, given some medication. The next day, this guy(god bless him) appeared and paid the bill, gave me enough money for a bus home. 100 baht to be precise, and gave me the address, and a phone number of a place to get sorted out. I have not had a drink since that day, and to repay the guy who helped me, try to help others in a similar situation.

You never know how much you can help someone who is begging, if you take a little of your "precious" time and ask what you can do to help. My opinion is that if it is a drunk that doesn't want to sober up, then give him money to ease his suffering, albeit briefly. Actually giving money to drunks can actually help them reach their point of surrender.

I rememebr seeing a bus load of beggars, in an expensive tour bus, getting off early in the morning at a famous temple in India. I still gave them money.

Beggars give me the opportunity to be grateful at what I now have. I must admit that by helping out beggars, I help myself.

Sure there are beggars that make more money than I do. They still give me the chance to remember what is like to be in the gutter. Who I am to judge, who deserves/needs 20 baht or not?

Edited May 10, 2005 by Neeranam

[Tornado]

It sounds like we have been through similiar circumstances Neerenam. I liked your post!

[Boon Mee]

How does a person end up in such a desperate situation

and wouldn't it be easier for them to just go home

to their own country?

Beggars give me the opportunity to be grateful at what I now have. I must admit that by helping out beggars, I help myself.

Those who would not stop to help their fellow man should think of the negative karma they're building...

Jing jing, mai go hok.

[chownah]

How does a person end up in such a desperate situation

and wouldn't it be easier for them to just go home

to their own country?

Beggars give me the opportunity to be grateful at what I now have. I must admit that by helping out beggars, I help myself.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Those who would not stop to help their fellow man should think of the negative karma they're building...

Jing jing, mai go hok.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A bit off topic but short. Does doing something to avoid negative karma build negative karma? Just wondering.

[gburns57au]

Pedantic, cantankerous, obstreperous, argumentative, peevish and sullen come to mind.

and then I made my post........

[meemiathai]

Chownah,

I like and agree with every word of yours in this thread.

Wise words.

I agree that giving money to beggars does not really help them especially in this case. And yes, hypocrisy has got somehting to do with it. But this sort of hypocrisy is something that even people themselves do not realize.(no offense)

Thanks for the input.

[Neeranam]

A bit off topic but short. Does doing something to avoid negative karma build negative karma? Just wondering.

Good question!

[OxfordWill]

I defy anyone to find one person (apart from a Religious monk) who chooses begging as a way of making money.

Hi Thomas, forgive me for doing so but you may like to look up a Richard Fitzgerald of Clifton, Bristol, UK. He has a false leg which he rides to the shopping centres on his new motorbike with, removes his gleaming helmet and settles down in a corner, removing the leg, to beg. He makes around 200 pounds sterling a day and is about to move into a newly renovated flat in Clifton so that he need not ride his new motorbike to 'work'.

Still to this day I would imagine that Locals can find him sitting outside what used to be waitrose in the village.

He has a degree and lives very well, except often complained about the boredom.

[Thomas_Merton]

No Tom....I dont have to do that...

The aforementioned merc driver...SCAM

I can remember the old girl and the half dead boy on her lap..and how I saw them an hour later....walking down the street....it was a miracle really...the kid was a real survivor.......SCAM

the deaf and dumb guy....who I saw having lunch with his family in McDonalds in Pattaya....chattering away to his family....about 12 to the table and all well dressed...he shut up when he saw me.....BIG SCAM...outside the Royal Garden

A guy on Second Rd with the fake artificial leg.....how do I know its fake...cos he carries it under his arm at the end of the day....SCAM

A good beggar can make 2-3000 baht a day.....especially in a town full of gullible tourists....

I dont mind, if a guy is working his guts out for very little, buying him a beer or something to eat....or if I know for sure that someone is really down on their luck, I will shout them a feed....no probs...but I wouldnt give to some stranger on a street that I know nothing about.

I wrote: Begging is never a paying business. I defy anyone to find one person (apart from a Religious monk) who chooses begging as a way of making money.

Talk to these poeple, find out what alternatives they have. Could they do your job? Whatever it is, or was? And why not?

I know a lot of people that have travelled extensively and are still gullible and naive about what they see and perceive....

and I know a lot of Australians who are prats, so what?

oh and BTW...I really dont come here for the religious learning either....your belief is your own thing....please keep it to yourself.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well it seems you have several alternatives then:

1. Turn off you computer and do something useful

2. Complain to the Mods and get me banned (although I'm not sure which of the forum's rules I'm supposed to have broken)

3. Or you could grin and bear it (I was going to say, you could shut the &lt;deleted&gt; up because you make even whinging Poms sound normal, but that wouldn't be very religious, would it?)

[meom]

A bit off topic but short. Does doing something to avoid negative karma build negative karma? Just wondering.

Good question!

There is no such thing as negative karma. There is karma and only after it's creation can it be experienced as negative or positive.

[bina]

the karma thing.... we discussed it a lot in te budhist forum several threads actually might all want to check out sabaijai and pandits and somebody else cant remember who's, threads and responses to question name of thread: Do You Believe In Karma ?.....

just snipped something from sabaijai in the buddhist thread:

Intent carries the main content of karma, so identical actions with differing intents yield differing results. A lot of people seem to have difficulty grasping this notion.

my colours for emphasis