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[jdinasia]

The principle of a marriage is that you make your wife happy.

The principle of marriage is that you make each other happy. As I stated earlier - sinsot is for show and is not a dowery.

Stating it as a fact does not, in fact, make it a fact

We all bow to your superior wisdom....

As well you should!

[eurasianthai]

The principle of a marriage is that you make your wife happy.

The principle of marriage is that you make each other happy.

Indeed, and money should not be part of the equation.

Money does not make anybody happy, does it?

[britmaveric]

^no, but it makes life easier.

[tavarich]

I enjoy reading about the sinsod problems posted here so many times. I have the option to not click on the title of the post, if I don't want to read about it. So I would suggest to you "A" holes that don't want to waste your time with the "trolls" to click elsewhere, there are plenty of other posts to read.

[eurasianthai]

Indeed

[Boo]

2 kids under 4 & been with you for a year already. Are the kids 4 year old twins?

IME paying sinsod for a woman with 2 kids already just isn't done

Also just my personal opinion but I would be wondering where & why the father isn't around & if the mother is as rude & demanding as you say she is, do you really want to be connected to this woman by marriage & have to deal with her on a regular basis (and you will be too)

Tell your gf that sorry you can't afford mums demands so the weddings off & even if you could pay it wont out of principle. Not YOUR culture. Also mention that due to mums attitude you have decided to also stop monthly help as it raised some alarm bells so she will need to go back to work. See what happens & let us know.

[eurasianthai]

Also just my personal opinion but I would be wondering where & why the father isn't around

Not a personal opinion Boo, just a fact, where is the Thai father, in quite a few cases...

And why should a farang take over his responsability?

[flying]

Sinsod is an odd topic for most not from LOS thats for sure.

I guess I am one of the lucky ones because back when I was about to get married I asked about it because ...of course I had heard about it previously.

My wife laughed & then asked her parents in front of me. At that time I did not speak or understand Thai so I watched for their reaction as they spoke. I was happy to see them laugh & then my wife translated that they basically said we are happy you folks are in love & want to spend your lives together but, as for sinsod our daughter is not for sale. If you marry you marry & we wish you all the luck.

Mind you they are not rich but I was happy to hear that Because the whole sinsod deal did in fact scare me to think about.

Not because of the money but the principle. But at the same time I guess I understand it in some ways. In LOS a daughter or son for that matter is a future supporter of the parents. So I guess when they are likely leaving to be in another country the child feels a responsibility to give something. That of course does not help the taste of the notion & it does not go down well.

I mean after all it is in a sense it is similar or reversed elsewhere. Meaning in most western countries it is still tradition that the brides family pays for the wedding & in many cases that is not a cheap proposition. Also in older times there was such a thing as a dowry......Reverse sinsod

Lastly pretty much anywhere in the west the husband of course buys an expensive engagement ring/wedding ring. Many times this ring is at least the price of sinsod.

I guess the main difference in these sinsod stories is how it is not unlike some kind of business deal. I think that is what leaves a bad taste with the poor guys stuck with it.

Anyway Chok Dee to the OP. If you love the future wife I guess you need to make some decisions that will likely affect your life one way or the other.

[koan]

> Personally I am rather surprised that people are so impoverished that their relationship with their girlfriend isnt even worth Bt200k.

It's demeaning to put an actual figure next to a relationship as if it is a price or monetary value.

As soon as someone tells you that you have to give a gift then it is no longer a gift. As soon as someone tells you how much that gift must be, then it becomes a trade. Especially if you negotiate the amount.

I see people saying that sinsod is a down payment in case of divorce. In the case of divorce, can you claim a deduction on any support you have to pay ? If you stay together can you claim a refund ? I don't think so. That rationale might explain how sinsod came into being but times have changed.

If I get married to my Thai partner, I am not becoming Thai or joining the Thai culture. Everywhere I go in Thailand I will still have to pay the foreigner price regardless of how rich or poor I am.

[TheLaughingMan]

> Personally I am rather surprised that people are so impoverished that their relationship with their girlfriend isnt even worth Bt200k.

It's demeaning to put an actual figure next to a relationship as if it is a price or monetary value.

As soon as someone tells you that you have to give a gift then it is no longer a gift. As soon as someone tells you how much that gift must be, then it becomes a trade. Especially if you negotiate the amount.

I see people saying that sinsod is a down payment in case of divorce. In the case of divorce, can you claim a deduction on any support you have to pay ? If you stay together can you claim a refund ? I don't think so. That rationale might explain how sinsod came into being but times have changed.

If I get married to my Thai partner, I am not becoming Thai or joining the Thai culture. Everywhere I go in Thailand I will still have to pay the foreigner price regardless of how rich or poor I am.

Clear and rational thought, how refreshing.

[Tigs]

Go and get married at the equivalent of a registry office in Bangkok. Quick and efficient, then the two of you can tell all the relatives you had a romantic wedding in Farangland.

As for SinSod, forget it. I have possibly the best MIL I could hope for. Sinsod was discussed for a nano second. I said that as I understand it the purpose of sinsod was to take care of my wife if we get divorced, I then said that I am not going to enter a marriage planning to fail. This marriage as far as I am concerned was for good, there will be no divorce and I am not planning on one. Simple! The MIL loved my philosophy. I suggest you tell your future MIL that she is so lucky that someone will take responsibility for her daughter and two grand children that she is fortunate that you are not making her pay you!

[GrahamF]

What really bothers me about this particular Sin Sod thread is that in this case the gf knows that no Sin Sod should be paid due to her having 2 kids and a previous marriage. I get the greedy mil, but the gf is also participating in this money grabbing charade, leading to the conclusion that she is all about the OP's money as well. If she really cared about him, she would have told him the truth about not having to pay anything. It doesn't bode well for the future if they do get married.

[RAZZELL]

What really bothers me about this particular Sin Sod thread is that in this case the gf knows that no Sin Sod should be paid due to her having 2 kids and a previous marriage. I get the greedy mil, but the gf is also participating in this money grabbing charade, leading to the conclusion that she is all about the OP's money as well. If she really cared about him, she would have told him the truth about not having to pay anything. It doesn't bode well for the future if they do get married.

IMHO...no Thai girl will ever put her bf or future husband before her Mother.

RAZZ

[britmaveric]

^as most farang will not do the same with their own mum's vs thai wife! (blood is thicker than water)

Edited February 18, 2010 by britmaveric

[RAZZELL]

And do not claim the moral highground because it goes against your upbringing and background. As far as I am concerned if you are unwilling to give the girl you want to marry Bt200k to sort out the problem in whichever way she deems fit, then you occupy no ground worth speaking of at all. Do her a favor and dont get married.

RAZZ

[RAZZELL]

I know about sinsod, its cultural origins and what most people are saying about it now. I've read a variety of definitions and opinions on it from Thai people and foreigners via various sources so I think I understand it well enough.

I detest the principle of sinsod with a passion. I can't explain why I'm so against it; I love my girlfriend and have already acknowledged to myself that I will have to compromise on many things in order to get married. I'm just not sure that I can force myself to pay up even if it is only a small amount that they promise to return. The notion is kind of offensive to me. If I get married I believe it should be a joining of equals, regardless of background; I don't see how $ fits into this equation. I honestly feel quite sick at the thought of paying.

Of course I am going to discuss this and many other details at length with my girlfriend well in advance. If we do get married, chances are we will do it in the UK and possibly a second time in Thailand for her family at a later date, could be a couple of years later. There is a possibility that everyone could forget about it but I would prefer to try to have a calm discussion about these things out in the open in advance and then not have to worry about it again.

I should also mention that on two occasions in the past my girlfriend asked me to send her a couple of thousand Baht for specific purposes. Both times I said no for practical reasons and we discussed why at the time in detail. I'm a bit concerned that she might think that I'm stingy.

Despite my entrenched position, I welcome any insight or perspective shifting views that anyone might be able to offer.

Yes, you are stingy!

Plus you have absolutely no understanding or empathy with Thai customs and traditions. I humbly suggest you read a bit more

RAZZ

[cdnvic]

The one thing more annoying than a troll is the guy running around screaming "troll!".

Even troll posts can be made informative, a credit to the participants.

One troll caller post deleted.

[Abrak]

What confuses me to all hel_l Abrak is you keep saying the op should pay sinsod regardless of her having 2 children. Why? This is NOT Thai culture and no Thai man would be caught dead paying in this situation. So why should a falang man go totally AGAINST culture and pay a non returned sinsot? This is a complete scam, the Thaiu wife to be knows it and the mother knows it but the falang husband is clueless he is getting scammed. And yet you are encouraging him?

Your logic that he should pay just to make her happy is incomprehensible. We should let people steal and scam us because it makes THEM happy?

Look as I see it Bt200k isnt going to be a big deal - he is paying Bt20k a month.

He gets her mother off his back and it is a gesture of goodwill. Forget the girl doesnt warrant sin sod and think how you make her feel special because you havent turned around and said two kids - no sin sod. Is that the right attitude. Noone else might pay it but noone else is getting married to her. If you love her just give her a little respect. Look if it is all steal and scam why are you marrying her? Her mother is dirt poor so why not help her out. You dont achieve much legging over the mother in law early in a marriage. This one sounds like a right cow so you make it clear this payment absolves you of all future responsibilities.

[britmaveric]

^what makes you think 200K will be the end of it? Get real!

[cdnvic]

The issue here really isn't about sonsot at all. It's about a rude and apparently not too bright mother in law. What and if you want to pay is up to you and your own beliefs, not the rest of the forum's. Regardless of the choice you make there, can you really deal with this woman for as long as she's around?

[473geo]

> Personally I am rather surprised that people are so impoverished that their relationship with their girlfriend isnt even worth Bt200k.

It's demeaning to put an actual figure next to a relationship as if it is a price or monetary value.

As soon as someone tells you that you have to give a gift then it is no longer a gift. As soon as someone tells you how much that gift must be, then it becomes a trade. Especially if you negotiate the amount.

I see people saying that sinsod is a down payment in case of divorce. In the case of divorce, can you claim a deduction on any support you have to pay ? If you stay together can you claim a refund ? I don't think so. That rationale might explain how sinsod came into being but times have changed.

If I get married to my Thai partner, I am not becoming Thai or joining the Thai culture. Everywhere I go in Thailand I will still have to pay the foreigner price regardless of how rich or poor I am.

Fear of failure and ridicule...... ........those who are confident the relationship will go the distance have no problem stumping up a bit of Sinsod.....a few baht to make the wife very happy....why not, you can afford it...... ...........can't you???

[cdnvic]

Fear of failure and ridicule...... ........those who are confident the relationship will go the distance have no problem stumping up a bit of Sinsod.....a few baht to make the wife very happy....why not, you can afford it...... ...........can't you???

Insinuating that the poster can't afford it is kind of a cheap shot, especially when it's not even the subject of the debate.

[473geo]

Fear of failure and ridicule...... ........those who are confident the relationship will go the distance have no problem stumping up a bit of Sinsod.....a few baht to make the wife very happy....why not, you can afford it...... ...........can't you???

Insinuating that the poster can't afford it is kind of a cheap shot, especially when it's not even the subject of the debate.

Why is it not a valid question?.........I just feel that the reasons for not paying are many, not just the excuses about western ideals, and Thai culture not being pertinent........if you can't afford it, you will not, and are better off not paying, and moving on....

If you can afford it, and choose not to compromise........well you used the word cheap....not me!!!

[TheLaughingMan]

So now the logic in the argument for sinsot is that if you can afford it you should pay. If you cant, then move on. So in other words.... if you are rich you should buy your wife, if you are not then stay single? I just don't get this line of thought. Do all rich men think like this? How terribly sad...... I have had 3 major relationships based on love in my life, they were wonderful. How is it I could find such happiness for those 6 year periods without having to buy it? Is there something I don't understand that men with too much money do understand about love? Somehow... I think not.

[TheLaughingMan]

And another thing. All this talk of making the wife happy by forking over her payment. I dont know about you old guys, but if I want to make my wife/girlfriend happy.... I know how to do it and it doesn't cost a thing. I make her laugh, I make her orgasm (repreatedly), I'm sweet to her and affectionate, I support her and encourage her. Hmmm actually that's alot of work! Maybe I should just pay and be done with it, because money is all a woman needs to be happy right? Clueless....

This is getting ridiculous, the more I read from you guys the more I think all you have to offer a woman is cold hard cash and that's it. This is why you defend your belief that you must pay a sinsot (even when Thai culture does not call for it!) So you insinuate that anyone that wouldnt pay is cheap or a loser. I see it the other way around, anyone that does pay is a loser that has nothing else to offer. Sorry but it's true.

[473geo]

So now the logic in the argument for sinsot is that if you can afford it you should pay. If you cant, then move on. So in other words.... if you are rich you should buy your wife, if you are not then stay single? I just don't get this line of thought. Do all rich men think like this? How terribly sad...... I have had 3 major relationships based on love in my life, they were wonderful. How is it I could find such happiness for those 6 year periods without having to buy it? Is there something I don't understand that men with too much money do understand about love? Somehow... I think not.

Love is not about wanting the same things....... it is wanting what you have......(from a book not me!!)

I do not advocate any of your, buying of a wife, that is your view not mine, and just to put the record straight, if you have decided to get married surely you love each other!!!!......so now that is out of the way........if you are asked for a few baht and you do not have the required sum......well this would be where your ar5e hits the floor......with me so far??......so if you are not prepared to pay on request.....or cannot,perhaps negotiate.....then maybe a more disciplined approach would be to try a different nationality to avoid disappointment!!! Rather than playing the 'this is not my culture card'.

[473geo]

And another thing. All this talk of making the wife happy by forking over her payment. I dont know about you old guys, but if I want to make my wife/girlfriend happy.... I know how to do it and it doesn't cost a thing. I make her laugh, I make her orgasm (repreatedly), I'm sweet to her and affectionate, I support her and encourage her. Hmmm actually that's alot of work! Maybe I should just pay and be done with it, because money is all a woman needs to be happy right? Clueless....

This is getting ridiculous, the more I read from you guys the more I think all you have to offer a woman is cold hard cash and that's it. This is why you defend your belief that you must pay a sinsot (even when Thai culture does not call for it!) So you insinuate that anyone that wouldnt pay is cheap or a loser. I see it the other way around, anyone that does pay is a loser that has nothing else to offer. Sorry but it's true.

But you tire after 6 years.......or maybe your magic fails.....how do I know? maybe you just lose patience.....or perhaps your blinkered vision lets you down?...... You see you miss the point......those that choose, for whatever reason to make a show....help out the family.....they see it as exactly that......you could not pay because you see it as 'buying a wife'......perhaps they see it as supporting the one they love!!!

Edit: spelling

Edited February 18, 2010 by 473geo

[koan]

Why is it not a valid question?.........I just feel that the reasons for not paying are many, not just the excuses about western ideals, and Thai culture not being pertinent........if you can't afford it, you will not, and are better off not paying, and moving on....

If you can afford it, and choose not to compromise........well you used the word cheap....not me!!!

At this moment in time, no, I don't have money to throw around. Maybe you guys are all rich or something but in my opinion 200,000 Baht is not a trifle.

Yes I could pay it at a stretch, but I find it objectionable. For me, it's the principle. It doesn't matter if it's 2 trillion Baht or 2 Baht. You can't put a price on a relationship.

It's bad enough that my background is not on a more equal footing with my partner but how will it be if she feels like she owes me something, or I feel like she owes me something ?

@RAZZELL

You say that if you don't agree with sinsod then you don't understand Thai culture and Thai traditions. That's the ultimate trump card, isn't it ? You're saying: you're wrong if you don't agree. No one can argue with you.

In fact agreeing has nothing to do with it, how come I have to kowtow to Thai culture on this issue ? I'm not forcing her to adopt anything from my culture. Doesn't compromise work both ways ?

I know that I am "careful" with my money, however, every time I have been with my girlfriend I have taken her out, taken her shopping, paid for holidays, basically paid for almost everything. Last time I saw her I even gave her some cash when I left. A couple of times she asked me to send her some money, I thought it was a bad idea for her to start relying on someone thousands of miles away to help her pay for some everyday items and whatnot. Both times the amount of money she requested was too small to be worth making the transaction and at my location it would have been a nightmare to get the bank to do the transfer anyway. She has a fairly good job and gets along well with her parents so I had to question why she needed *me* to give her money.

[473geo]

Why is it not a valid question?.........I just feel that the reasons for not paying are many, not just the excuses about western ideals, and Thai culture not being pertinent........if you can't afford it, you will not, and are better off not paying, and moving on....

If you can afford it, and choose not to compromise........well you used the word cheap....not me!!!

At this moment in time, no, I don't have money to throw around. Maybe you guys are all rich or something but in my opinion 200,000 Baht is not a trifle.

Yes I could pay it at a stretch, but I find it objectionable. For me, it's the principle. It doesn't matter if it's 2 trillion Baht or 2 Baht. You can't put a price on a relationship.

It's bad enough that my background is not on a more equal footing with my partner but how will it be if she feels like she owes me something, or I feel like she owes me something ?

@RAZZELL

You say that if you don't agree with sinsod then you don't understand Thai culture and Thai traditions. That's the ultimate trump card, isn't it ? You're saying: you're wrong if you don't agree. No one can argue with you.

In fact agreeing has nothing to do with it, how come I have to kowtow to Thai culture on this issue ? I'm not forcing her to adopt anything from my culture. Doesn't compromise work both ways ?

I know that I am "careful" with my money, however, every time I have been with my girlfriend I have taken her out, taken her shopping, paid for holidays, basically paid for almost everything. Last time I saw her I even gave her some cash when I left. A couple of times she asked me to send her some money, I thought it was a bad idea for her to start relying on someone thousands of miles away to help her pay for some everyday items and whatnot. Both times the amount of money she requested was too small to be worth making the transaction and at my location it would have been a nightmare to get the bank to do the transfer anyway. She has a fairly good job and gets along well with her parents so I had to question why she needed *me* to give her money.

I am not at all removing the right to disagree with sinsod being thai culture or not........I question why, if you truly love your intended, why would a few baht sinsod cause a problem if a man could easily afford to pay.........so that being the case....can you think of an obvious reason why a man would kick up a fuss about western values requiring elevation into the equation?

[TheLaughingMan]

Because when a woman brings money into the equation all her "love" is in question and doubtful.