Teachin english in chiang mai

[ufkenmill]

What's the story with language schools in Chiang Mai?  I have a great degree from a large University in the US and haven't had any luck getting a job teaching English here in Chiang Mai.  What am I doing wrong??  I applied at the big schools AUA, British Council, Australia Centre, along with several other smallish language schools and I'm being told by the big schools that if you don't have a degree in English then you need a degree AND a teaching certificate.  I have a degree, and great experience in a technical field, but sadly have no experience teaching and no teaching certificate.  What's with these schools actually following Thai laws now and absolutely requiring a certificate?  I'm not about to spend 1400$ on a certificate that will allow me to earn a whopping 500$/month.  I thought it was supposed to be easy to get a job teaching English here.  What's the story?

I don't believe it's really anything I'm doing wrong (but who knows), I go into these places dressed very well, cleanly shaven and with all the appropriate paperwork they request (diploma, transcripts, etc) and I've had no luck!  I haven't gone into the lesser known language schools yet that may or may not be registered in Thailand, but I'm getting desparate.  I have a possible opportunity at a foreign technical company here but they pay is pretty low (Thai pay rates basically, plus 5-10KB/month) and I'm waiting for a higher-up foreigner to arrive from overseas to interview me and that won't be for a couple of weeks.  

Does anybody have any advice?  I've got great work experience but it's in the biotechnology/pharma industry and isn't really applicable to anything here.  Some possible QA/ISO options but not many (one that I know of for a foreigner - friend of a friend).  What's the story with teaching Engish here or getting any kind of work?

[ufkenmill]

I obviously meant "Teachin*G* English in Chiang Mai" in the post title.  I speak more eloquently than that just sounded,lol.

[ufkenmill]

Anyone, anyone, Bueller, Bueller?????

[Rambutan]

Maybe you have the 'wrong' skin colour. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a racist but the people here tend to give less opportunities to dark skinned people, even to fellow asians.

[ufkenmill]

Thanks for the effort rambutan but I'm whitey white and good looking too I might add (or at least the bargirls tell me that,doh).  I have a professional appearance and am well groomed.  I don't have a teaching certificate and "technically" they are following the law by not hiring someone without it.  I'm only talking about the bigger schools here though, I haven't gone into the smaller less reputable ones.  I know of one that will hire teachers without a certificate but the pay is so low it's not even worth mentioning.  I spent too much on my education to work for peanuts, even if it is in paradise....

I think I'm giving up on the search for a teacher position, gonna try to utilize my IT and QA experience, besides, who the #### wants to live on 500$/month anyway?

[Rambutan]

You should try Bangkok then. The maket in CM is pretty small compared to Bkk.

And if you're in for "Big Money", then you should try it in another country. However, making more than 500$ should be possible in Bkk.

[Nat]

Hi ufkenmill

Don't mean to sound horrible, but the law is the law and glad that there are some schools abiding by it. It would probably be worth while getting a teaching certificate. At least you'll learn how to structure a lesson and know what you are doing in the classroom and provide your students with the best possible education - which is the reason you want to teach, right? Good luck with it all.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I'm whitey white and good looking too I might add (or at least the bargirls tell me that,doh).  I have a professional appearance and am well groomed.  I don't have a teaching certificate.

I'm tougher than Nat. Thank God the schools have woken up to unqualified teachers. Particularly those who boasts bargirls as referees. Do something else....somewhere else......

[Nat]

Dr my thoughts are actually harsher but it wouldn't be ladylike to divulge them

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I get annoyed ...very annoyed dear Nat,when the witless propose to teach when they are bereft of a qualification. I boast three degrees, but I have no teaching skills, none whatsoever.

[Nat]

I'm sure you have many teaching skills dr

I've been fortunate to receive a good education, but am by no means an expert and still have a lot to learn. I think if one chooses to teach they should do it properly and for the right reasons. Especially with the young, cause you're imparting more than just the knowledge of a language.

[ufkenmill]

And someone going by the name Dr. Pat Pong shouldn't be making judgements based on limited info...

I have never paid for sex, I have a steady Thai girlfriend and would never do that. I'm not judging others for their own behaviour either...and never would. To each his own.

Actually, I have two degrees, both in the sciences and I have been a trainer in a corporate, highly technical setting. I would say that is my only teaching experience, however it is of course not teaching English to non-native speakers.

But I would say, that teaching highly technical material to a bunch of English majors, is a challenge itself. I am not unqualified to teach, I simply haven't sat and taken one of the certificate courses.

And Dr. PP, I never said I blamed the school. I completely understand the logic behind it, I was only wondering what happened to the good old days when a westerner could just show their pearly whites and be offered a job (I'm being sarcastic Dr. PP, just to make sure you understand).

Who are you anyway? What does someone going by the name "Dr. Pat Pong" do for a living? Let me guess, you're a medical doctor and your parents had a sense of humor?? Didn't think so......

[seahorse]

I get annoyed ...very annoyed dear Nat,when the witless propose to teach when they are bereft of a qualification. I boast three degrees, but I have no teaching skills, none whatsoever.

And I don't like it when people who have never taught assert that you need a "teaching qualification" to teach. It's easy to get a TEFL certificate here in Thailand, but that doesn't mean you'll be able to teach. Also, I had plenty of teachers from primary school through to university who had "qualifications" but THEY WERE CRAP TEACHERS.

[seahorse]

Ufkenmill,

Your problem is your location. Schools in Chiang Mai can afford to be a bit more picky than elsewhere as lots of farangs want to live there. You would easily get a job elsewhere. Some places even take French, Swiss, or German English teachers.

I don't have a TEFL certificate, but I had a decent job within a month of looking.

[brianbrain]

... I had plenty of teachers from primary school through to university who had "qualifications" but THEY WERE CRAP TEACHERS.

I totally agree with your comment. My school days were full of totally crap (but presumably "qualified") teachers. With just a handful of exceptions they were unable to teach the subject, enthuse the students, or control the class.

Teaching qualifications are not a pre-requisite to good teaching and anyone who thinks they *prove* the ability of a teacher needs to take a reality check.

[Guest IT Manager]

I get annoyed ...very annoyed dear Nat,when the witless propose to teach when they are bereft of a qualification. I boast three degrees, but I  have no teaching skills, none whatsoever.

Dr you are being unfair to yourself. What about that cool trick you taught me with the bar girl and the beer bottle?

[brianbrain]

Ufkenmill,

Your problem is your location. Schools in Chiang Mai can afford to be a bit more picky than elsewhere as lots of farangs want to live there. You would easily get a job elsewhere. Some places even take French, Swiss, or German English teachers.

I don't have a TEFL certificate, but I had a decent job within a month of looking.

The problem may be location, but I don't think so. Most international schools require "teaching certificate, etc..." regardless of their location. Government schools and most regular language schools will accept graduates without a teaching certificate. Apply to one of those schools instead. Some government schools are good places to work and they offer benefits comparable to other places. Of course they don't offer the high salaries (45,000+) available at some international schools.

Incidentally, something I've not seen covered by any previous posting, employees working for government schools can now have their tourist visa converted to a non-immigrant work visa without leaving the country for a visa run. Yes really...

[samsara]

Ufkenmill,

I think you're utterly correct, but at the same time, utterly wrong. Sure, you are waaaaay over-qualified to teach English (guessing this is your logic), but no matter what field you were previously in, no matter how technical/professional your past environs were, it all won't mean shit to a tree when you have 60 screaming 8 year olds under your control. True, it doesn't take a genius to teach, but it does take experience.

Admittedly, the TEFL classes are very nearly an entire waste of time. You could run through the material in most in two days. Some, however, do give you the invaluable opportunity to get your feet wet, i.e. teach some classes.

And a word of advice: watch the ego, man. If you ever do land a job, it won't go down at all.

[ufkenmill]

Thanks everyone for your advice, Dr. PP I forgive you for being a <deleted>, you have given out good advice on other matters so I'll overlook this one.

Yes, location is definitely one of the problems. I spoke with the director of a large language school here recently and he showed me a stack of resumes on his desk. Seems Chiang Mai is a pretty popular desitination for English teachers who have taught in other countries as well as Thailand. I have only tried the private schools assuming that they would be most inclined to 'overlook' the government requirement of a certificate, I never thought of going to the Government schools to get around a Government regulation,hehe. Who would have thought??

Samsara - thanks for the advice on the ego. I'm still adjusting to the Asian way of life and my American 'personality' just won't work here without checking it at the door. But then again, American thinking is not a bad thing generally speaking.

And yes, screaming 8 year olds is not my idea of a good time! lol. I'd rather be beaten with a stick than listen to that for 8hrs/day so maybe teaching isn't what I ought to be in??

I just need a job here and applying for teaching positions seem to be the first and most likely route in landing a job here as an expat. But that thought is changing every day!

Anybody have any ideas???

Thanks and God Bless!

[francois]

Dr. PP I forgive you for being a <deleted>

who is a <deleted>?

joke

on my own humble experience ... I teach sometime to kids the basics of computer-user, at the same time, they have some basic english as it is required to understand the computer world.

I'm french as some know, I have no problem to do so ...

simply private lessons

but, I have to say ;

first, you need to like(love) what you teach ... students catch this easy

two, you need to be willing to transmit your knowledge, and it's not this obvious, even if you have a fair amount of it in your field, you might be performing in the professional sector but not in teaching, this is two separate worlds

three, don't think about money, a teacher don't work for this at first, surely not

here ...

if you need to work, find a job, but don't consider teaching like a job, it is a lot more about giving than receiving a salary

anyway, good-luck ...

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I get annoyed ...very annoyed dear Nat,when the witless propose to teach when they are bereft of a qualification. I boast three degrees, but I  have no teaching skills, none whatsoever.

Dr you are being unfair to yourself. What about that cool trick you taught me with the bar girl and the beer bottle?

and the dart tricks as well IT

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Thanks everyone for your advice, Dr. PP I forgive you for being a <deleted>, you have given out good advice on other matters so I'll overlook this one.

How, oh how can I repay you for your forebearance and indulgence

[francois]

How, oh how can I repay you for your forebearance and indulgence

may be knees down, and "thanks so much Master"

I feel so low in front of so much knowledge, don't you? hahaha

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Our American brother might find that taking the Dale Carnegie course a bit of an advantage. It might ( only might ) tone down his superiority complex. My parents were great, and as a result of their efforts, I am not wandering around cap in hand trying for a 500 bucks a month job.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Teaching qualifications are not a pre-requisite to good teaching and anyone who thinks they *prove* the ability of a teacher needs to take a reality check.

Probably true what you say Brian, but it doesn't follow that an unqualified teacher will be any better than a qualified one.

[samsara]

Dr.P, your info concerning visas and whotnot is informative, but when it comes to other things you're kinda lost. What kind of possible logical deduction did you use to come up with your last post dealing with Ufkenmill, 'Our American brother..."?

Basing judgements of others on scant evidence is cool and all, but it sure doesn't exude much wisdom. I don't think Ufkenmill's poor monetary status (if such is even the case) has anything deal with his parents' shortcomings.

Does your wife buy you a narcissus every year for your bday?

[Kan Win]

I get annoyed ...very annoyed dear Nat,when the witless propose to teach when they are bereft of a qualification. I boast three degrees, but I  have no teaching skills, none whatsoever.

Good Dr.

I have 4 degrees, North, South, East & West.

Y.M.C.A. sang “Go West”, but alas I went East and here I am.

LOL

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Dr.P, your info concerning visas and whotnot is informative, but when it comes to other things you're kinda lost. What kind of possible logical deduction did you use to come up with your last post dealing with Ufkenmill, 'Our American brother..."?

Basing judgements of others on scant evidence is cool and all, but it sure doesn't exude much wisdom. I don't think Ufkenmill's poor monetary status (if such is even the case) has anything deal with his parents' shortcomings.

Does your wife buy you a narcissus every year for your bday?

Witless.

[Guest IT Manager]

I get annoyed ...very annoyed dear Nat,when the witless propose to teach when they are bereft of a qualification. I boast three degrees, but I  have no teaching skills, none whatsoever.

Dr you are being unfair to yourself. What about that cool trick you taught me with the bar girl and the beer bottle?

and the dart tricks as well IT

Of course there was the evening in the pub in Alice Springs with the ping pong balls, the blowfish and the computer monitor that I forgot about.

Memory fades so fast at our age don't you think.

Now where was I? .............

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Old Timer's disease eh ? .