What Shortcuts Did You Take In Learning Thai?

[HappyInCM]

Topic title should be more like "What stages of Speaking Thai did you go though" - e.g., speaking without tones.

I'm just wondering for those that can really converse in Thai, what levels of reading, speaking and listening did you go though?

I would imagine that many have had a stage where they semi-ignored the tones just to make some progress and build a (albeit hard to understand) vocabulary to start practicing with?

Did you start without reading for a long period and then add that in?

Or maybe you mostly focused on vocabulary and didn't spend time on grammar until later?

ps maybe this should just be for everyone as what people think is currently working for them.

Edited February 26, 2010 by eljefe2

[Parvis]

I am not aware of any "shortcuts" - at this point. My attempt is to speak Thai within 8 months. Month 1 - for me was October 2009 - when I started "rather disappointing" 30 private lessons at Walen for 22,500 baht. I was not a "total beginner" when I started - but close to it.

After many "intense" complaints about Book 1 - on this Forum - I suggested to MacWalen to give me "free lessons with Book 2". MacWalen agreed and gave me 30 free Group Lessons with Book 2. These free lessons will get me through March 16. Then will be my decision making time - where to continue.

I believe to be able to speak Thai one should have specific time goals (such as 8 month) - a plan on how to get there and the willingness to study in addition to class hours. Motivation, attitude, determination are more important than anything else.

It had been suggested - on this forum - that with my increasing age (mid 60th) learning becomes "scientifically" more difficult - because of memoryloss etc etc etc.. I strongly disagree. - While it is true that at age 65 you are 50% more likely to get Altzheimers than at age 40 - it is also true that at age 65 you are 50% more likely to break a bone than at age 40. In other words a "healthy brain" (or healthy bones) show no "age related deficiencies" - as many recent scientific studies have concluded.

At the present time I study Thai an average of 2 hours per day (with the help of Computer etc etc) - including 2x 2hours per week in Walens classroom. I am making progress - whether I will reach my goal "The Jury is still out" - but my ego is not my motivation.

Edited February 27, 2010 by Parvis

[bhoydy]

I started speaking about 5 years ago, but i was rubbish. Then about 3 years ago i learned the reading and writing aspect of things. I taught myself from scratch and therefore go at my own pace which is sometimes fast and sometimes non-existent (eh where did i throw that book?). Now my vocabulary is beginning to expand through reading and the use of a dictionary. I can converse quite well i think, but it really depends on the topic and the person i'm speaking to how far the conversation will go. I can now also type and have friends on msn that i only use thai with which i am quite proud of. It is, though, a constant learning process. My next plan is to join in the Mattayom 1 Thai Language class in the school where i teach. Don't know how much i'll be able to understand but i'll give it a go. I sometimes get the tones wrong and sometimes i pronounce the vowels wrong but i find that once i have learned how a word is spelt it is easier to remember the tone.

That's my tuppence worth.

[Loz]

Been here 4 years and speak reasonably well for the last 2 I'd say. ALWAYS learning. But despite efforts to learn to read and write I would be put to shame by kids in Prathom 1 2 or 3 I suspect. I opted for the natural approach with full immersion. I live and work here and have no thai wife/translator. This means I HAVE to speak and understand Thai (isaan thai, Laos, Korat Dialect) and its been fun.

Stage 1

MOnths 1 - 3 very basic but copy tones (just like when you were a baby in your mums arms)

Months 4- 10 Start to understand words and phrases and can mix a bit together. Still confused by questions being asked in different ways but learning more lexical range as a result. Speaking a little slang.

MOnths 11-15 Very questioning at this point. hungry for more vocab. Bit of an explosion in understanding the concept of the language and more confidence in spoken ability. Understand that Thais often repeat or ask u to repeat basic requests like when asking for 1000bht of diesel they will go, "Ah?" even if you are Thai! So learn to role with the nuances. Also learn that copying the tone has taught me how to be understood. Thais don't always make a fuss about tone themselves if the context is clear. But there are some minimal pairs where a slip up is not good.

Month 16 - Conversationally competent with some specialised fields due to hobbies and work. Desperate to learn writing properly now. SPelling is mine field. letters appear in the "wrong" place often! Its all good fun.

At every stage there are frustrations but I think if I had tried to learn in a classroom I would have gone insane by now. Life is the best teacher in my humble opinion. And that is coming from a Teacher! (who uses life to teach ie. Authentic materials)

[farangnahrak]

No shortcuts . . . but having a good teacher and good learning literature will definitely help.

The secret to learning, however, is to force yourself to study multiple hours a day for many years and never quit (or even skip days).

[tombkk]

No shortcuts . . . but having a good teacher and good learning literature will definitely help.

The secret to learning, however, is to force yourself to study multiple hours a day for many years and never quit (or even skip days).

I agreee about "no shortcuts".

I don't agree to not skip days: I found it quite helpful to go to Europe for one or two weeks every couple of months and let the Thai I'd learned settle.

To the OP: Learning without tones first does not make any sense. You havbe to learn the tone with each word; if you pronounce it wrong, you will be saying another word. In my case, I learned reading along with vacabulary. Up to now, whenever I heard a new word, I ask "How do you spell that?". The tones are in the script.

You have to practice hearing the correct tone. Let you friends saya word and you guess which tone it is. Then say the same word with the same tone. It took me 3 months to tell the tones apart, and another 3 months to actually produce the tone I meant.

I never went to language school. Trick: A good book, and good friends. It is better to have friends who don't speak English, and who will cirrect your grammar and your pronuncation (and not be too kraeng-jai to do that).

After 20 years in this country, I conduct business in Thai (it opens doors) and am studying for my PhD in a Thai-language program. What I'm saying is: Never quit - this I agree with, too.

[farangnahrak]

It took me 3 months to tell the tones apart, and another 3 months to actually produce the tone I meant.

3 months?! It took me about a week to fully understand and speak the tones correctly . . . although it took me a year or so for my brain to do it automatically ie didn't have to think about it to do it.

Not bragging . . . I just thought it wasn't even remotely difficult for anybody . . .

Then again, I was in my early 20's when I started . . .

I've met this one Thai lady, she professionally teaches Thai for the US Dept of Defense . . . she insists beginners shouldn't learn tones for at least the first 3 months learning Thai. Of course, I *strongly* disagree with her, and feel vocabulary should not even be started until the tones are understood.

I definitely need to break occasionally to keep my brain from frying, or simply wanting to quit altogether because of overload . . . I typically study in 30 minute sessions.

[tombkk]

It took me 3 months to tell the tones apart, and another 3 months to actually produce the tone I meant.

3 months?! It took me about a week to fully understand and speak the tones correctly . . . although it took me a year or so for my brain to do it automatically ie didn't have to think about it to do it.

What did you do in that first year? Conciously watching the tones you wanted to say for each word? I learned the word with the right pronunciation (after I had mastered the tones), so words with different tones were different words when I learned them. In your terminology, I was at that point after 6 months where you were after 12! LOLOLOL :-)

This is not a contest. Everybody learns at his own pace. I actually formed my first comprehensible sentences after 6 months and become somewhat fluent on a conversational level after two years. Most people will consider this slow, but I had no time pressure. Don't children have about the same pace?

Not bragging . . . I just thought it wasn't even remotely difficult for anybody . . .

Then again, I was in my early 20's when I started . . .

I've met this one Thai lady, she professionally teaches Thai for the US Dept of Defense . . . she insists beginners shouldn't learn tones for at least the first 3 months learning Thai. Of course, I *strongly* disagree with her, and feel vocabulary should not even be started until the tones are understood.

I can only assume she meant that she will not explain the tones, but nevertheless correct her students. I don't believe for a moment that she will tell her students that it is OK to say "white" when you really mean "rice".

I definitely need to break occasionally to keep my brain from frying, or simply wanting to quit altogether because of overload . . . I typically study in 30 minute sessions.

Everybody has their own rhythm. Some people take intensive courses at 6 or even 8 hours a day, but they don't do anything else during that time.

Edited February 28, 2010 by tombkk

[HappyInCM]

No shortcuts . . . but having a good teacher and good learning literature will definitely help.

The secret to learning, however, is to force yourself to study multiple hours a day for many years and never quit (or even skip days).

I agreee about "no shortcuts".

I don't agree to not skip days: I found it quite helpful to go to Europe for one or two weeks every couple of months and let the Thai I'd learned settle.

To the OP: Learning without tones first does not make any sense. You havbe to learn the tone with each word; if you pronounce it wrong, you will be saying another word. In my case, I learned reading along with vacabulary. Up to now, whenever I heard a new word, I ask "How do you spell that?". The tones are in the script.

You have to practice hearing the correct tone. Let you friends saya word and you guess which tone it is. Then say the same word with the same tone. It took me 3 months to tell the tones apart, and another 3 months to actually produce the tone I meant.

I never went to language school. Trick: A good book, and good friends. It is better to have friends who don't speak English, and who will cirrect your grammar and your pronuncation (and not be too kraeng-jai to do that).

After 20 years in this country, I conduct business in Thai (it opens doors) and am studying for my PhD in a Thai-language program. What I'm saying is: Never quit - this I agree with, too.

That's impressive. For me (I'm 44), I'm at the point where I can pretty regularly hear rising, falling tones and most times low, high and middle (assuming they are speaking clearly), but for many words, although I may know how it's spelled, I cannot currently associate it's tone with the right word before I figure out what the word is from context. But, that is changing now that I usually remember how new words are written in Thai rather than karaoke English Thai.

I just didn't think that spending weeks or months getting the tones right without knowing anything else was the way to go for me and ALSO, more importantly, I do not have a good tutor. Without a native speaker, learning the tones is pretty tough although thai language.com is pretty good.

I'm happy with where I am now, but I admit my pronunciation has a long way to go. Maybe if I had spent more time listening to Thai TV?

I do regret not working on grammar more, but that is hard without a working vocabulary, which I'm thinking must be about 2500 words as I'm at about 1500 and not quite there.

[Parvis]

On the Subject of Tones etc.

Have you ever watched how babies aquire a vocabulary - and eventually a language? At first the mother has to translate for you what the baby is saying - only she understands. With more practice and time it becomes intelligible to the rest of us. There are no "tone rules" "grammatical rules" etc. etc. etc.. It is all a question of imitation, repetition and revision. It is a gradual process that takes time.

As adults we should be able to "reason" our way through the labyrinth of learning Thai much more effectively. The problem lies within ourselves - not without.

[farangnahrak]

I learned the word with the right pronunciation (after I had mastered the tones)

Yeap, exactly what I did/do.

I can only assume she meant that she will not explain the tones, but nevertheless correct her students. I don't believe for a moment that she will tell her students that it is OK to say "white" when you really mean "rice".

Nope, not even bother correcting them. I haven't met one of her students though . . . She claimed that tones can be 'tacked on' later, and its too complicated to ever teach a beginner.

As for learning tones, memorizing the 'tone chart' made quick work of it.

Oh and here is something that'll annoy a beginner - Thais break the tone rules. They'll say มั้ย instead of ไหม, they'll say ม๊ากมาก instead of มากๆ, ขา instead of ค่ะ etc. Its kinda fun though after you get the hang of it . . .

[tombkk]

I learned the word with the right pronunciation (after I had mastered the tones)

Yeap, exactly what I did/do.

I can only assume she meant that she will not explain the tones, but nevertheless correct her students. I don't believe for a moment that she will tell her students that it is OK to say "white" when you really mean "rice".

Nope, not even bother correcting them. I haven't met one of her students though . . . She claimed that tones can be 'tacked on' later, and its too complicated to ever teach a beginner.

As for learning tones, memorizing the 'tone chart' made quick work of it.

Oh and here is something that'll annoy a beginner - Thais break the tone rules. They'll say มั้ย instead of ไหม, they'll say ม๊ากมาก instead of มากๆ, ขา instead of ค่ะ etc. Its kinda fun though after you get the hang of it . . .

If she doesn't correct their tones, she is providing a disservice.

As for native speakers breaking the rules: Many rules have exceptions. "ม๊ากมาก instead of มากๆ" is such an exception; in fact pronouncing it มากมาก would be wrong. But of course they do break rules, like every native speaker does with his language. That is true for English grammar too. You can break every rule if you know how. Doesn't make it easier for foreigners trying to learn the language, though.

[tombkk]

No shortcuts . . . but having a good teacher and good learning literature will definitely help.

The secret to learning, however, is to force yourself to study multiple hours a day for many years and never quit (or even skip days).

I agreee about "no shortcuts".

I don't agree to not skip days: I found it quite helpful to go to Europe for one or two weeks every couple of months and let the Thai I'd learned settle.

To the OP: Learning without tones first does not make any sense. You havbe to learn the tone with each word; if you pronounce it wrong, you will be saying another word. In my case, I learned reading along with vacabulary. Up to now, whenever I heard a new word, I ask "How do you spell that?". The tones are in the script.

You have to practice hearing the correct tone. Let you friends saya word and you guess which tone it is. Then say the same word with the same tone. It took me 3 months to tell the tones apart, and another 3 months to actually produce the tone I meant.

I never went to language school. Trick: A good book, and good friends. It is better to have friends who don't speak English, and who will cirrect your grammar and your pronuncation (and not be too kraeng-jai to do that).

After 20 years in this country, I conduct business in Thai (it opens doors) and am studying for my PhD in a Thai-language program. What I'm saying is: Never quit - this I agree with, too.

That's impressive. For me (I'm 44), I'm at the point where I can pretty regularly hear rising, falling tones and most times low, high and middle (assuming they are speaking clearly), but for many words, although I may know how it's spelled, I cannot currently associate it's tone with the right word before I figure out what the word is from context. But, that is changing now that I usually remember how new words are written in Thai rather than karaoke English Thai.

I'm 47, and the transcriptions in the Karaoke tapes are a catastrophe.

quote

I just didn't think that spending weeks or months getting the tones right without knowing anything else was the way to go for me and ALSO, more importantly, I do not have a good tutor. Without a native speaker, learning the tones is pretty tough although thai language.com is pretty good.

/quote

Hm. I couldn't have learned the tones without native speakers who would correct me.

quote

I'm happy with where I am now, but I admit my pronunciation has a long way to go. Maybe if I had spent more time listening to Thai TV?

/quote

Yes, listening to TV or radio is a good idea.

I do regret not working on grammar more, but that is hard without a working vocabulary, which I'm thinking must be about 2500 words as I'm at about 1500 and not quite there.

That's notmuch vocabulary, but I hope you learned the right tone with each word - otherwise it's utterly useless.

[HappyInCM]

I do regret not working on grammar more, but that is hard without a working vocabulary, which I'm thinking must be about 2500 words as I'm at about 1500 and not quite there.

That's notmuch vocabulary, but I hope you learned the right tone with each word - otherwise it's utterly useless.

For reading comprehension its still useful and in the worst case scenario I can spell words out. Not ideal, but ...

[Thewayup]

If she doesn't correct their tones, she is providing a disservice.

As for native speakers breaking the rules: Many rules have exceptions. "ม๊ากมาก instead of มากๆ" is such an exception; in fact pronouncing it มากมาก would be wrong. But of course they do break rules, like every native speaker does with his language. That is true for English grammar too. You can break every rule if you know how. Doesn't make it easier for foreigners trying to learn the language, though.

Have you (question open to all!) recognized any patterns behind how native Thai speakers "break the rules" when it comes to tones?

I grew up with extensive musical training so I have found it easier than most foreigners trying to distinguish the tones in Thai, but if anything it makes me hypersensitive to when native speakers use unexpected tones .

One thing I have noticed Thai speakers do is "displacing" the falling tone from one syllable to the next, especially in fast conversation. For instance I've heard the word for fifty - ห้าสิบ pronounced ห่าสิ้บ .

Another example (long winded, but all I can think of right now!) - the bus from Bangkok to the South stops at a cafe and bakery shop in Petchaburi. On this route, we always pick up some of the local dessert as presents for the in-laws and friends.... It's called ขนมหม้อแกง but usually pronounced ขนมหม่อแก้ง by the native Thai speakers.

So hypothesis time... is it normal for Thai speakers to "displace" a falling tone if it is the penultimate syllable of a phrase or multi-syllabic word?

Are there any other rules or patterns for when the spoken tone differs from the written tone rules? Depending on regional variations and the level of the spoken language etc...

[farangnahrak]

Have you (question open to all!) recognized any patterns behind how native Thai speakers "break the rules" when it comes to tones?

There is one rule I've figured out . . . lets say you want to describe something, and you want to add a friendly emotional fun emphasis to it.

for example, the formal phrase: อร่อยมากๆ

changes to: อร๊อยอร่อย or อร่อยม๊ากมาก

You basically say the descriptive word twice, but the first one is always a high tone and slightly exaggerated, while the second is usually falling or low tone with a shorter vowel.

Another example, but this time with a polysyllabic word, ลำบากมาก becomes ลำบ๊ากลำบาก (pronounced more like ลำบ๊ากลำบัก).

I grew up with extensive musical training so I have found it easier than most foreigners trying to distinguish the tones in Thai, but if anything it makes me hypersensitive to when native speakers use unexpected tones .

I had 5 years of non-intensive music lessons when I was young, maybe that helped . . .

[tombkk]

If she doesn't correct their tones, she is providing a disservice.

As for native speakers breaking the rules: Many rules have exceptions. "ม๊ากมาก instead of มากๆ" is such an exception; in fact pronouncing it มากมาก would be wrong. But of course they do break rules, like every native speaker does with his language. That is true for English grammar too. You can break every rule if you know how. Doesn't make it easier for foreigners trying to learn the language, though.

Have you (question open to all!) recognized any patterns behind how native Thai speakers "break the rules" when it comes to tones?

Yes.

I grew up with extensive musical training so I have found it easier than most foreigners trying to distinguish the tones in Thai, but if anything it makes me hypersensitive to when native speakers use unexpected tones .

One thing I have noticed Thai speakers do is "displacing" the falling tone from one syllable to the next, especially in fast conversation. For instance I've heard the word for fifty - ห้าสิบ pronounced ห่าสิ้บ .

Another example (long winded, but all I can think of right now!) - the bus from Bangkok to the South stops at a cafe and bakery shop in Petchaburi. On this route, we always pick up some of the local dessert as presents for the in-laws and friends.... It's called ขนมหม้อแกง but usually pronounced ขนมหม่อแก้ง by the native Thai speakers.

This kind of tone change I notice when I go to ootyher provinces. The written tones seem to correspond to the spoken tones only in Central Thailand. Now, Petchburi is sstill Central, but...

So hypothesis time... is it normal for Thai speakers to "displace" a falling tone if it is the penultimate syllable of a phrase or multi-syllabic word?

Are there any other rules or patterns for when the spoken tone differs from the written tone rules? Depending on regional variations and the level of the spoken language etc...

I don't know how the kids in Isan or the South learn writing. The tones are pronounced completely different from how a word is spelled.

[tombkk]

Have you (question open to all!) recognized any patterns behind how native Thai speakers "break the rules" when it comes to tones?

There is one rule I've figured out . . . lets say you want to describe something, and you want to add a friendly emotional fun emphasis to it.

for example, the formal phrase: อร่อยมากๆ

changes to: อร๊อยอร่อย or อร่อยม๊ากมาก

You basically say the descriptive word twice, but the first one is always a high tone and slightly exaggerated, while the second is usually falling or low tone with a shorter vowel.

Another example, but this time with a polysyllabic word, ลำบากมาก becomes ลำบ๊ากลำบาก (pronounced more like ลำบ๊ากลำบัก).

I don't know whether there is a rule about this, but this is also my expereience.

[farangnahrak]

I've met this one Thai lady, she professionally teaches Thai for the US Dept of Defense . . . she insists beginners shouldn't learn tones for at least the first 3 months learning Thai. Of course, I *strongly* disagree with her, and feel vocabulary should not even be started until the tones are understood.

Last weekend I met two people that studied Thai for 6 months, 8 hours a weekday, for the US Embassy in Thailand.

I'd say they're vocabulary was decent, grammar as well, and can read albeit a bit slow. Took me probably 1.5+ years to get at the same level they were at. But not once did they use the correct tone for a single word they uttered. I told them that, and they said they were taught Thai to only pass a test, and no emphasis was put into tone usage. Speaking was on the test, however. Appears they just aren't teaching tones . . .

That said, I still understood 90% of what they said, same for the Thai people they spoke to.

Personally I think they are being condemned to bad pronunciation. Learning words with the wrong tone, then practicing it for 6 months, isn't going to be easy to unlearn . . .

[benthai98]

I was 17 when i came here. Lived with a Thai family. I went to local school and picked it up like any other person I guess. I remember sitting in class for first 3 months or so bored sh*tless with a constant headache. I couldn't even count to 10 or name the days of the week when I came. Math, science, history, religion etc etc. Not fun at the best of times; even worse when you have no idea what is being said.

As was fashion at the time (1992) we were all in to comics. I used to sit with consonant list in one hand and a comic book in the other. Slowly I was able to string together the characters and form words. Helped immensely with vocab but not with spelling. As I found out later comic book spelling and language is not always best.. :-)

The only short cut I can think of (and it's anything but short) is to speak Thai whenever possible. I didn't have the option to speak English back then. There wasn't anyone around to speak to.

The only way to learn a language is to use it.

[meadish_sweetball]

There is one rule I've figured out . . . lets say you want to describe something, and you want to add a friendly emotional fun emphasis to it.

for example, the formal phrase: อร่อยมากๆ

changes to: อร๊อยอร่อย or อร่อยม๊ากมาก

You basically say the descriptive word twice, but the first one is always a high tone and slightly exaggerated, while the second is usually falling or low tone with a shorter vowel.

Another example, but this time with a polysyllabic word, ลำบากมาก becomes ลำบ๊ากลำบาก (pronounced more like ลำบ๊ากลำบัก).

Mary Haas calls it 'emphatic repetitive expressions'.

Quoting a passage from "Thai-English Student's Dictionary", Compiled by Mary R. Haas, Stanford University Press, Stanford California. ISBN 0-8047-0567-4. (Well worth your baht.)

"EMPHATIC TONES. Any of the five tones can be accompanied by the phoneme of emphasis. This is indicated [in T-E SD] by placing and exclamation point (!) in front of the syllable receiving this treatment. Such tones are uttered at a higher pitch level than their corresponding normal tones, and also have a somewhat "screechy" quality. They occur in exclamatory utterances. A high emphatic tone may replace any of the normal five tones in emphatic repetitive expressions.

อุ๊ยตาย !?újtaaj exclamation expressing dismay, ช้วยด้วย chûay !dûay Help! (an urgent call), ถุย !thüy [<ü> umlaut represents rising tone] imitative of a sound used to spurn someone.

Emphatic repetitive expressions: ดี๊ดี !díi dii Very good! and so forth.

You can use it with any adjective basically.

I don't know how the kids in Isan or the South learn writing. The tones are pronounced completely different from how a word is spelled.

Teachers all over the country use Standard Thai as the medium of instruction and require the students to speak Standard Thai during school hours. The kids simply have to adapt.

[klons]

Thank you. That would explain this example that I couldn't quite figure out until today.

ก็ ไป เลี้ยง ควาย นอน สบ๊ายสบาย

kâw pai líang khwaay nawn sà-báay-sà-baay

then go "take care of" buffalo sleep comfortably-comfortably

source:learnthaipodcast

[cdnmatt]

I'm definitely no expert, and have just begun advancing from beginner to intermediate. Been here for about 11 months, but have been quite lazy about learning Thai. Sometimes I'd go six weeks without putting a single hour in, but I'm starting to get back into it now.

After you know the basics, I found it a bit difficult to advance. You know the alphabet, can read, write and speak at a basic level, have maybe 1500 words in your vocabulary. Where do you go from there? Just adding more individual words to your vocabulary isn't going to help much, and you're definitely not ready to start comprehending and speaking with your average Thai, as it's far too fast paced. I found some audio clips around accompanied with the written Thai, which have been helping.

Then I just bought a bunch of DVDs at the market, and (slowly) watch them in Thai with Thai sub-titles turned on. These are all movies I enjoy (Avatar, for example), and have already seen, so I know the storyline, and have a half-idea of what they should be saying at any given time. Plus I actually enjoy the movie (unlike Thai lakhorn, for example), so helps keep my motivation up. Definitely slow going right now, as I keep having to pause it, look up any words I don't know from the sub-titles, add them to my vocab, etc. Give me 2 - 3 months, and I'm sure things will be quite a bit quicker.

Edited May 1, 2010 by cdnmatt

[farangnahrak]

After you know the basics, I found it a bit difficult to advance. You know the alphabet, can read, write and speak at a basic level, have maybe 1500 words in your vocabulary. Where do you go from there? Just adding more individual words to your vocabulary isn't going to help much, and you're definitely not ready to start comprehending and speaking with your average Thai, as it's far too fast paced. I found some audio clips around accompanied with the written Thai, which have been helping.

I will agree that learning appears to definitely slow down after you reach the intermediate level.

That said, learning more vocab *will* help. A fluent speaker has roughly a 15k+ vocabulary. At your rate, you have at least 10 more years to go

But honestly, vocab gets harder, as now you need to learn the idioms, buddhist vocabulary (with crazy hard spellings), etc. And the rarer the word, the less practice you get using it, so the harder to remember it. For example, yesterday a Thai asked me what 'apocalypse' meant. How many times a year do you even use that word?

Now what to do . . . so you can read, but you can't read fast. Practice reading. You probably read one page an hour right now . . . get that to 10 pages an hour. I've been studying for 6 years, read tons of books, but I'm still only 10-15 pages/hour. Then again, I read English at like 15-20 pages/hour. Fairly slow. Buy a novel that looks simple to read, and read the whole thing. My first full Thai novel took me several months to finish . . .

Also, practice speaking. You probably have a bad accent, and you're probably fairly slow at expressing basic concepts. I occasionally record myself and listen to it a few days later, and yea, I definitely still have a very noticeable farang accent

[cdnmatt]

I will agree that learning appears to definitely slow down after you reach the intermediate level.

I find it's the same with every subject though. Just take your pick of any subject you'd like to learn, and Google it, or visit your local bookstore. There's always tons of resources for the beginner, but once you're done that stage, there's usually not much. Doesn't matter if you're learning a language, software development, or whatever... once you're done the beginner stuff, you're usually on your own to advance your learning.

That said, learning more vocab *will* help. A fluent speaker has roughly a 15k+ vocabulary. At your rate, you have at least 10 more years to go

That's actually the great thing about mastering the basics. Vocab comes easy now. First few hundred words are a pain, but once you got the basics down, vocab is much, much easier. Don't have to screw around with English transliteration, the Thai alphabet comes to you second hand just like the English alphabet, etc. Nowadays, I can bang out new vocab in no time. :-) Whether or not I remember it is a different question. That's why I need to get that software system in place, which I started a thread on. Will do that shortly though, as I know it'll definitely help me out, and hopefully others.

So far, the movies have been helping me quite a bit, I think. Once you're done the basics, just start watching Thai shows / movies that also have Thai sub-titles. It's definitely very slow going at first, but it definitely does the job. Assuming I keep up with the hours, within 6 months I'm pretty sure I'll be ok. Time will tell.

Then later on, once I'm more comfortable with Thai, I'll start giving my better half written & oral reports on whatever I just watched. Haven't looked yet, but maybe I can get lucky, and find some Friends or Simpsons episodes at the market in Thai, which also have Thai subtitles. We can watch them together, and afterwards I'll write up my summary in Thai of what the episode was about, and also tell him in Thai. From there, my better half can let me know where I screwed up, and help me learn. Or if that doesn't work, I'll try to find a private tutor to help out.

Edited May 1, 2010 by cdnmatt

[Richard W]

Don't have to screw around with English transliteration, the Thai alphabet comes to you second hand just like the English alphabet, etc.

Not that either English or Thai orthography will give you the pronunciation reliably, e.g. เพลา วิษณุ กฤษณา บัณฑิต.