The Truth About Farangs Buying Land

[Rinrada]

A foreigner, who invests at least 40 million Baht in authorized securities in Thailand, may be granted permission to purchase up to one rai (roughly 400 square metres) of land for residential purposes.

one rai is roughly 400 square meters... ?

LaoPo

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Little white rai

[udon]

My maths are &lt;deleted&gt;.

What's 150 sqm in sq ft?

Formula?

thanks

[LaoPo]

My maths are &lt;deleted&gt;.

What's 150 sqm in sq ft?

Formula?

thanks

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe this can help you?

http://web.mit.edu/course/11/11.328j/www/Measurements.htm

So: 150 sqm (M2) = 1.614,60 square feet or 179,40 square yard

1 sqm (M2) = 10,764 square feet

good luck

LaoPo

Edited June 24, 2005 by LaoPo

[samran]

2.  Permission must be obtained from the Minister of Ministry of Interior;

The problem is while the regulations do exist, according to my learned sources - also lawyers - the above regulation is the killer.

No Minister wants to be the first one to allow a foreigner own land - even if it is a token amount. It is political suicide in Thailand.

[udon]

LaoPo.

Thank you

Too old for maths tests

[LaoPo]

LaoPo.

Thank you 

Too old for maths tests

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmm...too old?..come on...OLD soldiers, never die!

LaoPo

[ProThaiExpat]

daveb1: Well said. As a subtext, one should keep in mind in one's inherent desire for certainty is that all laws are subject to interpretation.

Lawyers and Judges issue legal opinions. Results are therefore problematical based on a decision in an individual case.

I am unaware of a body of case law in Thailand where a lawyer or a layman, for that matter, can research the case law to reach a resoned opinion on how cases falling in a narrow issue of law have come down and thereby allowing for a "prediction" "legal opinion" of what the outcome would be in a current case.

Step back a huge bit to the area of interpreting law without prior case precedent, which is what we are all trying to do in "guessing" what a court "might" do in an individual fact situation based on legally untested laws.

While one can write a "contract" and try to predict the outcome if the contract is ever "tested" in court, the fact of the matter is that most contracts are never tested in court so their true validity is never tested.

The only posted "outcome" regarding a factual situation between a falang and a thai lady, his wife I believe, who owned the land and house upon which the falang had a lease, when she "threw him out", was the Thai court enforced the lease and he regained possession or never lost it to begin with.

All other posts todate on the issue of lease vs. company ownership in the past three years I have monitored, have been "untested" opinions, contracts, "I have done it" etc. recitations.

The best you can do is a "best guess" based on all informatin available and underlying priciples of law and fair play.

[spacebass]

Maybe the correct / honest title to this thread should be:

The Truth About Farangs [I]Owning[/i] Land, Stop the scare stories

Anyone can buy anything .

[ProThaiExpat]

Terminology is very important when discussing legal issues, so when we say aliens can "own" a condo in Thailand, what are we really saying?

Gary A speaks of "owning his condo", what does he really own.

Condominiums are, by definition, group ownership of the land under the condo building and of the areas that all of the unit owners have a right to access.

An individual unit "owner" in a condominium has an undivided interest as a percentage of the whole, in proportion to what his unit represents to the total number of units in the complex. A 20 unit condo complex grants an undivided 1/20 interest in the whole to each unit owner.

Thus, when one says that the Thai government permits falang to "own" a condo so long as no more than 49% of the untis are falang 'owned', they are in effect upholding Thai government land policy that no alien shall have a true ownership interest in land in Thailand. Since the condo association owns the land and building and the association is comprised of over 50% Thais, the land can be deemed Thai owned.

At best, a condo "owner" can say he owns a small percentage, an UNDIVIVED interest, in the Thai condo association, no doubt a Thai jural person, who is the owner of the land and building.

Likewise, the "company" route of "ownership" is permitted since, technically, the majority of the shares in the company are Thai owned, another Thai jural person, and it is that jural person who owns the land.

There is no dispute that it is the policy of the Thai government that land ownership shall not reside with aliens and anyone who receives advice that flies in the face of this govermental policy does so at exteme risk.

Perhaps some don't know that in Thailand, a law degree is an undergraduate degree and most lawyers in Thailand, so holding that degree, often reflect that level of education in their advice.

I urge all condo "owners" to review their condo documents and post any pertinent language that differs in any material degree with the foregoing, as I would like to know if there are any Thai "wrinkles" to general condominium law.

[lopburi3]

My maths are &lt;deleted&gt;.

What's 150 sqm in sq ft?

Formula?

thanks

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe this can help you?

http://web.mit.edu/course/11/11.328j/www/Measurements.htm

So: 150 sqm (M2) = 1.614,60 square feet or 179,40 square yard

1 sqm (M2) = 10,764 square feet

good luck

LaoPo

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Kind of hard for us Americans to understands the comma/point system above so we would probably say 1 square meter equals 10.764 square feet so 150 would equal 1,614.60 square feet.

[LaoPo]

My maths are &lt;deleted&gt;.

What's 150 sqm in sq ft?

Formula?

thanks

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe this can help you?

http://web.mit.edu/course/11/11.328j/www/Measurements.htm

So: 150 sqm (M2) = 1.614,60 square feet or 179,40 square yard

1 sqm (M2) = 10,764 square feet

good luck

LaoPo

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Kind of hard for us Americans to understands the comma/point system above so we would probably say 1 square meter equals 10.764 square feet so 150 would equal 1,614.60 square feet.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, it's confusing.

In Europe we (sometimes) use the 'dot' in the thousands; so: 1.614,60 whilst in the US the 'dot' isn't used, or am I wrong? So it would be 1614.60 in the US, right or not?

I don't know anymore.

LaoPo

[udon]

The dot or point, is important in dismal currency.

The comma has always been used to denote thousands.

Hey Lop, why do Seppos have a smaller gallon compared to the rest of civilised society?

Or have a World Series and not invite other countries to the competition?

[ProThaiExpat]

I haven't checked out the webpages for metric conversion provided but my favorite that does the calculation for you can be found at this site:

http://www.admiralmetals.com/metric_conv.htm

[udon]

PTE, great site.

cheers.

[Sir Burr]

Or have a World Series and not invite other countries to the competition?

Am not American, but, I think it is called the World Series because the original sponser was a newspaper that had the name World in it's title (ie News of the World").

[bkkhenry]

Thank you Major Major,at last some sense.As always a lot of the negative posts,are from people who are misinformed or tried to short cut the system.

I for one am a retiree & after a lot of searching ,probing & legal advise , purchased land.As long as you keep within the law & don't try ripping the system off you should be ok.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well Rooo, I'm just like you a retiree in Thailand. Great place to live and still no regrets. have found a nice place up North to stay with my wife, and thankfully my buying house experience was made easy by a good lawyer. I've got my whole story on buying land and property in Thailand (http://www.expatfocus.com/thailand-property-culture-shock) posted, pls feel free to read it!

[Mister Fixit]

My maths are &lt;deleted&gt;.

What's 150 sqm in sq ft?

Formula?

thanks

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe this can help you?

http://web.mit.edu/course/11/11.328j/www/Measurements.htm

So: 150 sqm (M2) = 1.614,60 square feet or 179,40 square yard

1 sqm (M2) = 10,764 square feet

good luck

LaoPo

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Kind of hard for us Americans to understands the comma/point system above so we would probably say 1 square meter equals 10.764 square feet so 150 would equal 1,614.60 square feet.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, it means 10,614.60 sq feet. You lost a decimal place somewhere.

The system the US and UK use is to use a comma to separate the thousands from the hundreds and a decimal point (period) to separate the decimals from the units.

So, 10.614,60 is actually just the same as 10,614.60. Just change the comma and decimal point over. It LOOKS very different, but it's actually exactly the same

[udon]

150m2 = 1614.60sq ft...... yes? No need for a comma.

[alesypalsy]

That was an excellent read bkkhenry, The part about the tin shack going up and chickens in the yard made me chuckle! , I take it you highly reccomend your lawyer, Could you give me an idea on the fees they would charge for me buying a condo for say 2 mil baht?

Kindest regards

Thank you Major Major,at last some sense.As always a lot of the negative posts,are from people who are misinformed or tried to short cut the system.

I for one am a retiree & after a lot of searching ,probing & legal advise , purchased land.As long as you keep within the law & don't try ripping the system off you should be ok.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well Rooo, I'm just like you a retiree in Thailand. Great place to live and still no regrets. have found a nice place up North to stay with my wife, and thankfully my buying house experience was made easy by a good lawyer. I've got my whole story on buying land and property in Thailand (http://www.expatfocus.com/thailand-property-culture-shock) posted, pls feel free to read it!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[TizMe]

PTE,  great site.

cheers.

science made simple is a great conversions site. If you need Thai (or chinese, russian, japanese or ancient roman) then I use convert me

[Thaipwriter]

Well Rooo, I'm just like you a retiree in Thailand. Great place to live and still no regrets. have found a nice place up North to stay with my wife, and thankfully my buying house experience was made easy by a good lawyer. I've got my whole story on buying land and property in Thailand (http://www.expatfocus.com/thailand-property-culture-shock)  posted, pls feel free to read it!

The legal company the link refers to dont come cheap....below is a typical quotation from them.

"You can register a thirty year lease at the Land Department, and have an agreement for a separate 30 year extension of the lease. After thirty years the seller would have to register the additional 30 year lease. If the property were sold to a third party, or the owner dies, or the owner considered was not agreeable, the owner could refuse to register the additional lease. You would have a right to sue, but unfortunately, attempting to enforce a right through court action is not as good as having the land.

However, we may be able to do an additional mortgage agreement to protect the land from re-sale to a different owner.

Unfortunately, everything has some risks. You can't eliminate risk but you can manage risk.

Our fees are normally hourly but we can provide the following estimates:

(1) Review Title Deed and Company Registration documents of Seller: 2 hours

(2) Review, and revise Land Sale Purchase and Building agreements in Thai Language, summary and explanation in English: 10 hours (or contracts in both English and Thai 15 hours)

(3) Draft 30 year lease agreement and option to extend for additional 30 years in Thai and English). 8 hours.

(4) Draft Mortgage Agreement (Thai and English) 6 hours

(5) Supervise (5.1) transfer of land and (5.2) registration of lease and (5.3) registration of mortgage at Land Department: 8 hours

That's a total of 34 hours and our hourly rate is normally 7,000 baht per hour and comes to 238,000 baht. We would also need travel costs and transportation costs for at least one trip to XXXXXXX. That would be airfare for 2 persons plus ground transportation and lodging for about 15,000 baht. Total Fees and costs: 253,000 baht.

We can offer you a discounted flat rate of 200,000 baht for the 34 hours described above and travel costs for one trip.

We usually require fees in advance and. We should be able to do the agreements long distance and then we can travel to XXXXXXX together and try to accomplish everything on one trip. If you are interested we can provide our bank account information for a bank transfer. If you need additional time to consider we can keep the offer open for 20 days."

[Rooo]

These costs are exhorbitant , I went the company way.Total cost to me a fraction of the above mentionend.

[Major Major]

I am a lawyer in Samui. The costs quoted are ridiculous. The expat firms are doing company incorporation and purchase of land/house for a figure in the region of 100-130,000 baht. This quote is clearly from one of the Thai rip off merchants that frequent these shores.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

PTE,  great site.

cheers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

science made simple is a great conversions site. If you need Thai (or chinese, russian, japanese or ancient roman) then I use convert me

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Neat links Tiz

[billd766]

I did it the very easy and cheap way.

I paid for the land, the house etc myself then I said to my wife, Its all yours.

I love you very much and this is one way that you will have security after I have gone.

I suppose it cost me less than £30,000 for 15 rai of land, 3 houses and everything else.

If I had it in my own name and I die it will go to my wife anyway.

In the event of a divorce that is all I will lose.

When I divorced my UK wife it cost me everything I had plus alimony of £20,000 a year for 5 years so even then with the mortgage and house in joint names it cost me far more than it will ever cost me here.

Besides what would I do with the house and land anyway. If my wife divorced me and left I would have to give her at least a half plus alimony.

I wouldn't want to live here without my wife and family and a Farang selling a house up in the country would get very little if he could find somebody who wanted it.

If I was into the marriage for money and a prenuptual agreement I wouldn't want to be in it anyway.

I married because I loved my wife and I still do even more now as we have a 14 month old son. Money and land are only worth what you want them to be. You can't take it with you so share the pleasure of it while yoy are alive. If you are so worried about your wife owning everything and leaving you with nothing perhaps you should reconsider what you marriage is worth to you.

If it is money and land and not love and trust you may be in the wrong place in your life.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I did it the very easy and cheap way.

I paid for the land, the house etc myself then I said to my wife, Its all yours.

I love you very much and this is one way that you will have security after I have gone.

I suppose it cost me less than £30,000 for 15 rai of land, 3 houses and everything else.

If I had it in my own name and I die it will go to my wife anyway.

In the event of a divorce that is all I will lose.

When I divorced my UK wife it cost me everything I had plus alimony of £20,000 a year for 5 years so even then with the mortgage and house in joint names it cost me far more than it will ever cost me here.

Besides what would I do with the house and land anyway. If my wife divorced me and left I would have to give her at least a half plus alimony.

I wouldn't want to live here without my wife and family and a Farang selling a house up in the country would get very little if he could find somebody who wanted it.

If I was into the marriage for money and a prenuptual agreement I wouldn't want to be in it anyway.

I married because I loved my wife and I still do even more now as we have a 14 month old son. Money and land are only worth wha t you want them to be. You can't take it with you so share the pleasure of it while yoy are alive. If you are so worried about your wife owning everything and leaving you with nothing perhaps you should reconsider what you marriage is worth to you.

If it is money and land and not love and trust you may be in the wrong place in your life.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

POST OF THE DAY. Well said Billy

[billd766]

Thanks Dr P.

Just my feelings and possibly a lot more from the silent majority.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Agree with ya Billy

[lopburi3]

Thanks Dr P.

Just my feelings and possibly a lot more from the silent majority.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I suspect so.

[hoochie coochie man]

I was at aflow concert recently and met a guy who was also really upset by these rumours. My question to him was: surely these rumours don't just start by themselves, there must be something in it. And also, why is it so complicated what the law is. Do foreigners by land legally only through some overlooked loophole that will be closed in time? The band was rockin' so we got distracted by good vibes and I never got an answer. I do wonder, though.