So You Have Lived Here A While, Is Thailand Still The Land Of Smiles ?

[ongoing]

Ok so people come here for 2 or 3 weeks on holiday some come for longer. They stay in nice hotels and eat at the nice resturants. They say the people in Thailand are so friendly and always smiling. Yes they are right becuase this is what they see from there 2 or 3 weeks here. The thai people they meet in the hotels and resturants, lets not forget are paid to smile and be friendly. Like any other country in the world where people work in these jobs.

What i dont get is people who have lived here a couple of years keep calling it the land of smiles. I have been here a good while myself and i know what the real thailand is like. People here in general are no more friendly ( i think they are less friendly towards farangs ) than in most other countrys i have been. So why do people who have lived here a long time just fail to see what the real thailand is like. For us farangs who can speak thai and understand we no deep down that the ' land of smiles ' is just a myth. Farangs are never far away from racism of some sort or being ripped off . So how is this the land of smiles ? I like to think it is the land of fake smiles. Is it people who have lived here a long time no deep down that thailand is not what they thought it would be, but they just try to block it out and convince themselfs that thai people are really friendly, when they no its not ture. One thing i will say is that thailand is less violent than most western countrys. But as for being a friendly place its just a myth, that some farang's wont give up on no matter how many times racism is directed at them or how many times they get ripped off and charged double the price thais get charged .

So is this really the land of smiles ???

Edited March 4, 2010 by ongoing

[Jingthing]

No, it is most certainly not the land of smiles. No country is actually the same thing as their marketing scheme. Cheers.

[carmine]

You get a smile generally when a financial transaction is taking place. Apart from that, it's no different to any other country, and i don't mean that to it's detriment, just the way it is.

[sanook2me]

OP... if you've lived here a while you should have realised it is the Land of Smiles but its working out which smile is being flashed towards you...

Is it the i'm about to rip you off in a nice way smile..

The no i have not got the foggiest what you are on about but will flash the confirmation smile anyway

The no problem smile which means you are getting away with it once only cus you is farang

There are plenty more but these spring to mine first..

[richieudon]

LOS = Land of Scams

The Thai's as a whole (IMHO) are quite a racist bunch. Some say they're just nationalistic but I don't buy that one.

I guess it's not their fault because it boils down to education.

Do they teach history in the schools here? Perhaps they do but I've yet to meet a Thai that knows any basic history...even Thai history.

They do smile though, but there are different smiles for different situations and sometimes westerners can't see this.

If we get pissed off with someone we may grind our teeth or show angry emotion. Most Thais will smile....but it's a different smile....

[MrRichard2009]

It's the same as it was ..... I never believed it was some paradise in the first place. As far a double pricing goes, that's such a red herring, in the USA every college has in state and out of state tuition, locals get huge discounts on seasons passes at ski areas, and places like Disney, out of state hunting permits are much more expensive, as just a few examples. Tourists pay more everywhere. Sometimes it's just a little less obvious is all. As far as smiles go, when I walk around some parts of Thailand it amazes me that ANYONE can smile in a hot , dirty, smelly, dog barking enviorment, try going to the same kind of place in the usa and see how many smiles you see. Thai people seem much more content with what they have ... not withstanding the upcoming red rally ! lol .... and content people are just easier to be around.

[toptuan]

Bangkok and Pattaya are not. But Thailand still is.

As long as one can distinguish between the foreigner/tourist enclaves and genuine Thailand, one can still find broad, friendly, no-strings-attached smiles to brighten every day. I do.

[Newguy70]

Bangkok and Pattaya are not. But Thailand still is.

As long as one can distinguish between the foreigner/tourist enclaves and genuine Thailand, one can still find broad, friendly, no-strings-attached smiles to brighten every day. I do.

Yes It is.

Agree 100%

[Oneman]

The thai people they meet in the hotels and resturants ... are paid to smile

...That comment is right on target.

"Carmine" explained above, that it happens when a financial transaction is taking place.

I would expand that to say, smiles happens when value is moving to them -- financial, food, gifts, learning a few English words, a new house, etc.

Anything to their benefit, they will smile.

...And, we should keep in mind, they are trained to smile and they practice how to do it.

A recent girl friend worked in a 5-star hotel where the training program included how to greet customers.

She demonstrated for me what she learned in the training.

It was like a bright light suddenly turning on: the smile, the body language, the soft and sexy voice, full attention focused on the customer.

Then, when she finished demonstrating what she'd learned that day, the light switched off.

The performance suddenly stopped.

The face went blank, the body language slumped, and attention evaporated.

The change was dramatic and stunning.

The smiles are a well-practiced "act".

...Another way to observe this is to watch Thais with other Thais when no farangs are around.

Recently I found myself at Morchit bus station with a few hours to wait.

I found a quiet place almost hidden behind a pillar, and just settled in.

It was the perfect location to watch Thais with each other, when the others are strangers, not friends or family.

There are no smiles.

The faces are universally bland; no expression.

They show none of the excitement or focus we farangs experience in hotels, restaurants, shops.

With each other, Thais are in neutral.

What i dont get is people who have lived here a couple of years keep calling it the land of smiles. ... So why do people who have lived here a long time just fail to see what the real thailand is like.

...Many -- perhaps most -- long-stay farangs here are either (1) not "awake" or (2) drunk most of the time.

Most don't understand any of the language beyond a few words for food and beer.

They simply aren't aware of what's really happening around them.

But they do get the smiles ... because ... they have money to spend.

...On the other hand, something different happens often to me and probably to you:

Whenever I go into a shop or restaurant where I've never been before, the smiles flick on, the body language focuses on me -- just like they are trained to do.

If I speak English, the performance continues.

But if I speak Thai -- and my Thai is fairly good -- the smiles turn off, the body language turns away, the performance comes to a screeching halt.

They immediately realize they have little to gain from a farang who "knows too much".

...So, it this the Land of Smiles or not?

After 5+ years, I still enjoy the performance, but I understand it's purpose.

But, what is more important, I find the fundamental gentleness and kindness of most Thai people to be far more desirable than the sullen, self-interest which now pervades our Western home countries.

I have no complaints.

-- Oneman

Chiangmai

.

[toptuan]

...Another way to observe this is to watch Thais with other Thais when no farangs are around. Recently I found myself at Morchit bus station with a few hours to wait. I found a quiet place almost hidden behind a pillar, and just settled in. It was the perfect location to watch Thais with each other, when the others are strangers, not friends or family. There are no smiles. The faces are universally bland; no expression.

Find me a big-city bus station any where in the world where people smile, and I'll find you a sign on the edge of town that reads "Entering Heaven (Utopia, Nervana, etc.)"

Find me a bus station in just about any small-to-medium sized town in Thailand, and your face muscles will fatigue trying to return all the smiles. Not only returning smiles, but watching Thais smile at each other.

Don't judge Thailand by Morchit.

Equivalent: "No one smiled at Grand Central Station in Manhattan. Therefore, all Americans are bland, expressionless and cold."

How ridiculous.

[jonclark]

As far as I know most Thais smile as its very passive and unconfrontational - Obviously Thais like all peopel can get angry, that's just human nature.

I speak fairly good Thai and unlike Oneman my Thai people don't change their 'performance' because of that. I guess if people like you they'll smile at you. Thais like 'sanook' so if you can break the ice and have a joke, they are very smiley people and if you smile they'll reciprocate.

The title Land of Smiles, is just a promotional slogan nothing more. l

[Ijustwannateach]

OP, if you're still not far away from being ripped off, you're really not far enough away from being a tourist to have seen 'real Thailand.' Most people I know who have truly managed to 'fit in' here- language, attitude, everyday behaviours- pay no more and no less for things than Thais do- unless they get back into that tourist scene.

I still get lots of nice smiles from strangers, friends, coworkers... the difference now from when I was a tourist is that they are *more* genuine. It's a true pleasure to be walking along, seeing someone looking at me rather shyly, then smile at them and they beam back. Nothing more expected on either side, and it makes the day better for both of us.

Seeing Thais with their friends- LOTS of smiles (unless they are acting 'cool', in which case it lasts until someone finally has to break the tension).

Of course there are idiots and mentally troubled types out there- same as everywhere, you learn to avoid them or just roll your eyes until they're out of your way- but a tiny minority and not related to our being foreigners.

[Tejas]

As far as I know most Thais smile as its very passive and unconfrontational - Obviously Thais like all peopel can get angry, that's just human nature.

I speak fairly good Thai and unlike Oneman my Thai people don't change their 'performance' because of that. I guess if people like you they'll smile at you. Thais like 'sanook' so if you can break the ice and have a joke, they are very smiley people and if you smile they'll reciprocate.

The title Land of Smiles, is just a promotional slogan nothing more. l

I think it is a bit more than promotional.........it is a culturally-ingrained automatic response.

It is particularly effective when greeting a person or seeing a friend.

If you want to get along in Thailand, I highly advise you to do this even though you may not want to or may even not get the response you expect.

The smile is not always genuine. Never has been in the history of any culture.

Many Asians (not just in Thailand) smile when they feel great discomfort or upset (e.g., seeing a dead body by a bashed up motorcycle after an accident).

That really is not what it seems to many Westerners.........just a culturally-ingrained response.

The Land of Smiles is a slogan...........and it certainly no longer (if it ever did) means that all people here are happy and courteous.

[givenall]

OP... if you've lived here a while you should have realised it is the Land of Smiles but its working out which smile is being flashed towards you...

Is it the i'm about to rip you off in a nice way smile..

The no i have not got the foggiest what you are on about but will flash the confirmation smile anyway

The no problem smile which means you are getting away with it once only cus you is farang

There are plenty more but these spring to mine first..

One thing really bothers me over here, is that no one including my wife like to say sorry or please. And really say thanks. Other than that is the same as anywhere else I have lived. It has its pluses and minus. For now is place to be for me

[carmine]

Bangkok and Pattaya are not. But Thailand still is.

As long as one can distinguish between the foreigner/tourist enclaves and genuine Thailand, one can still find broad, friendly, no-strings-attached smiles to brighten every day. I do.

Never been to Samui then

[Jingthing]

Of course in Thailand there are many kinds of smiles with many different meanings. So tourists come here and see a lot of smiling and some fall for the illusion that all those smiles are the same kind of smile they are used to in the west. So the marketing scheme was brilliant for those only seeing Thailand superficially. You can't blame them for exploiting a cultural quirk.

Of course there are lots of fake smiles in the west also, at commercial establishments where employees are required to smile to keep their jobs.

Edited March 4, 2010 by Jingthing

[Bedrockguesthouse]

I have been here for a long time also. Straight out i dont agree with. First of all LOS is just marketing and a saying. Basically Thai's arent different from anyone anywhere. They have there ups and downs like all of us. However, i think they do kinda live up to the saying LOS if you look hard. If anything they are more calm than westerners and how we were brought up. e.g wanting what we want and when we want it. Rip off artists are everywhere in the world. Frankly seems like you dont want to be here??? For us farang if we dont like it we can move to another LOS easily or go home. At the end of the day LOS depends on our attitudes or frame of mind doesn't it? Dont get me wrong i get frustrated but i did back in OZ/Singapore/Hong Kong/USA/India etc. but LOS still exists for me otherwise i wud pack up and go elsewhere. However i respect your own feelings above is just my point of view.

Cheers

[mccw]

When i come across some one who's not smiley here i wonder "whats wrong with them", in england people look at you like your mental if you smile at people randomly; on short trip last year i took a little while to rember how it is until i happened a random eye contact with sum bloke, says- "what the fuc_k you smiling at?"

agree, smiles are readable and mean many differrent things which tourists don't pick up on. I like the cutie bashfull ones the best, but being able to recognise the "i'm gunna f'ckin murderise u if u dont leave now" one has saved my messy mates a few times.

!alls depends on where you live and what sort of living that entails! but sayin that a fat old geeza is bound to get less smiles than a young fella. same like a stone face int gunna generate warmth. more often than not positive is met with simillar but if you start out lookin like a moody cnt dont expect people to go out thier way to cheer you up!!

2 prices mostly dissapear when you speak some thai and/or (for parks/ zoos etc) have id show you stay in thai, like a bank card or drivers licence. I think its fair enough locals get a discount/ rich subsides, so every one else can go for 20bht. I know many minted thai's also get cheap rate but what ever its all a minor really, just some people get hung up about the discrimination more than the damage.

Never bin hussled by the police either; (bitta tea money to stay open all night is a good thing for everyone involved, no complaints

[Maizefarmer]

Hotel and other folk who interact with tourists anywhere in the world are paid to smile – nothing about that which is unique to Thailand. The point remains: where ever you go in the world, going to where ever on holiday is never the same as going to where ever to live and work , or retire, and in that respect, like any where else in the world, Thailand is little different.

The land of smiles is a marketing gimmick as is Thai Airways' “smooth as silk” statement.

Rasicm and getting ripped off?

Thai's are constantly ripping each other off, as much if not more so than they rip foreigners off. As for rasicm – it's like getting ripped off – if the comparison is with “friendlyness”, yes I can see the contrast, but the reality is that a large factor in these ideas/attitudes that folk have of Thai's and Thailand are really about poor communication.

Lets take the Thai language out of the equation, and however impractical it probably is, lets imagine that Thai's spoke English. Now I think many of the perceptions folk have would vanish – only because we can understand the other person.

As I have said many times before on the forum: Thai's have the same understanding of concepts like morality & immorality, honest and dishonesty, loyalty and disloyalty, as we have – they are human, just like us, and as a cultural/ethnic/racial group (or however one wishes to catorgirise them), Thai's are no more or less likely to be honest/dishonest, loyal/disloyal, intelligent/unitelligent, moral/immoral …... etc etc ….... than any other racial/ethnic or cultural group in the world.

[toptuan]

Bangkok and Pattaya are not. But Thailand still is.

As long as one can distinguish between the foreigner/tourist enclaves and genuine Thailand, one can still find broad, friendly, no-strings-attached smiles to brighten every day. I do.

Never been to Samui then

Twice too many!

[jdinasia]

Bangkok and Pattaya are not. But Thailand still is.

As long as one can distinguish between the foreigner/tourist enclaves and genuine Thailand, one can still find broad, friendly, no-strings-attached smiles to brighten every day. I do.

You can add Samui, Phuket and Chiang Mai (all in the tourist zones) to that list. You can also note that how Thais treat people often has a direct correlation to how those people project themselves. Many foreigners project a sense of entitlement and have no real concept of how asians (particularly Thais) interact with each other.

I live inside the moat in Chiang Mai and find that the Thai people (other than one clerk in one particular 7-11) treat me as they treat other Thais. I get charged the same and get the same level of respect that is given to the majority of people. I do see some people acting badly and thus getting treated badly. I think that is the samething they would experience anywhere they went.

[somtampet]

I have never thought of Thailand as the land of smiles as its just a touristy name,maybe the land of smirks.

I also didnt come to live here over 6 years ago because people smiled at me,i came to retire early in life with enough money to stay here.

[quiksilva]

Smiles to complete strangers are reciprocated much more often here, than they in the West, I like that.

As for the Ps&Qs or the lack of them I usually put that down to their command of English but definitely agree on the sentiment regarding the non existent apologies. It seems that many have a hard time saying sorry (but I have seen all of that back home too, and worse).

[Ruperts]

I wasn't too bothered about the smiles, I always thought it was obvious that it was used to express much more than just happiness, and often, when seeing fellow tourists smile at a random thai, the returned smile came out of pure embarrassment at having to communicate with a farang.

What did shock me a bit, when I started to see past the tourist trail, was how indifferent the thais are towards us. It's not that they don't like us, they simply do not care whether we exist or whether we don't. It's like being a ghost. Sometimes when walking around outside, it's almost as if they can perceive a farang and know not to look towards you, as no matter how hard you try to make eye contact, they never cast a glance in your direction.

And on the odd occasion when their farang perception doesn't work and you make eye contact, you get a smile... an embarrased smile.

[barrybankruad]

Bangkok and Pattaya are not. But Thailand still is.

As long as one can distinguish between the foreigner/tourist enclaves and genuine Thailand, one can still find broad, friendly, no-strings-attached smiles to brighten every day. I do.

How right you are. Living in rural Issan I get get smilies and greetings every day. And I really do believe they are genuine. Mind you I have live here for a long time, being well known perhaps the fact that I'm a farang doesn't make much difference any more.

[jdinasia]

Smiles to complete strangers are reciprocated much more often here, than they in the West, I like that.

As for the Ps&Qs or the lack of them I usually put that down to their command of English but definitely agree on the sentiment regarding the non existent apologies. It seems that many have a hard time saying sorry (but I have seen all of that back home too, and worse).

I am thinking I should write a book entitled "Thais and the art of conflict avoidance". There are certainly different values in place here and the "smile" means many things when used amongst Thais. Generally speaking apologies in the form of words which are standard in the west are replaced with a smile and a concerted effort to do something different/meaningful for the person that was slighted.

I know it is hard for some people to understand this but forcing an admission of having done wrong is a significant conflict (socially) in Thailand, and is typically avoided if both people know where the fault indeed rests. The person that caused the breach will typically not be pushed into an admission but instead will simply smile and make social correction later.

Very often foreigners that don't understand this will push so hard that all they do is create hard feelings for life. I think much of the attitudes of Thais in touristed areas is correlated to these misunderstandings. I am not saying the Thai way is "right". I am saying the Thai way is the Thai way. Many of us that have been here for a long time have seen Thais "explode" and vent years of pent-up social stress very inappropriately (at other Thais). I certainly do think that things are changing here as "modern stress" catches up with what was largely until 50 years ago a very agrarian society.

[villagefarang]

Thread after thread people whine about not having home court advantage here in Thailand. If you are playing on someone else's playing field, get used to it. The crowd is not going to be cheering for you. Do you care, back home, when the immigrants or aboriginal people get all uppity and complain they don't get a fair shake? I think not.

I find it humorous when some relative newcomer tries to tell someone like me that I don't know the "real" Thailand. I have never been big on slogans myself and have never called Thailand anything but home. At least not for a very long time.

Basically you reap what you sow. Ask ten different people what Thailand is and you will get ten or twelve different answers. A long time ago I got used to the fact that I would rather have someone be dishonestly nice to me than honestly rude. Telling the difference has never been a problem or an issue.

All this pontification on what Thailand is or isn't is quite tiresome. It is time to realize that not all our personal issues can be generalize to others.

Edited March 4, 2010 by villagefarang

[WinnieTheKhwai]

For me: YES, Thailand is very much the land of smiles. (15 years)

I do live in Chiang Mai though; I get a lesser sense of Thai smiles in places like Bangkok.

I just don't understand some people who seem miserable all day, spending their time ranting on online forums. Why do that in Thailand..

Edited March 4, 2010 by WinnieTheKhwai

[billd766]

I have been coming to/working in and living in Thailand now since 1993 and where I live which is in a small moo ban 65 km from Khampaeng Phet most of the people I meet smile a lot at me and each other.

When I ride my motorbike into the main village kids also smile and wave and most of the time up here I pay the same as the locals do at the markets and in the shops.

I can speak and understand Thai a little but at 65 and partly deaf I find it is a hard language to learn but I do try.

Maybe out in the countryside people have more time and are more relaxed than people in the cities who are constantly on the go rushing here and there to get things done and for me I would never want to live in the big city. I did that for 5 years or so in Bangkok and other cities around the world and I found it too stressful, too polluted and too crowded.

Up here my nearest neighbour is 100 metres away and nobody lives in a gated fenced in ghetto fearful of being robbed etc. I honestly cannot remember the last time we shut the front gate let alone locked it.

Last year I was in 7/11 and bought some stuff then went off to the bank 100 metres away and a you girl ran after me and gave me back a 500 baht note that I dropped and hadn't realised.

Would this have happened in the city?

I love Thailand and most of all I remember that Thailand has 66 million people living here and something over 500,000 square kilometres so somebody somewhere will not be smiling but far more people will be.

[lovelomsak]

Bangkok and Pattaya are not. But Thailand still is.

As long as one can distinguish between the foreigner/tourist enclaves and genuine Thailand, one can still find broad, friendly, no-strings-attached smiles to brighten every day. I do.

Yes It is.

Agree 100%

I agree 100% also. A thai friend explained the smile as simply the thai way of saying a kind hello with out saying anything. Where i live I get smiles at red lights from others on motorcyles,waiting for the light to change they definitely arenot selling me something.